Minecraft Forums

Hm, so apparently the Warden and the Deep Dark are being delayed to 1.19. Disappointing, but there you are. So, we really are heading toward the end of the update. Given that they gave themselves until the holidays to release, they've got plenty of time to tweak things.

Deep Dark looks a whole lot better than I expected despite the delay. Those structures look so cool, makes me think of would strongholds always should have been.

Yes, it looks like it's been much expanded.

I wonder what happened to archeology?

Quote from TheMasterCaver»

Most world generation used Java's Random, which is ludicrously bad by modern standards - it only uses 48 bits, meaning that for every seed there are 65535 other seeds which produce the exact same terrain and other features; only the biome map, which uses a custom RNG, uses the full 64 bit seed - and this has been the case ever since the game was created (very old versions didn't even use 64 bits for biomes, hence the thread):

https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/seeds/2229720-can-two-different-seeds-produce-identical-worlds

In particular, you can find the exact same village down to its loot and even the surrounding tall grass and animals in the seeds

Perhaps *this* is why a lot of times the game goes from feeling soulful to soulless for some reason. The repetition isn't inherently bad but if it is too predictably timed or too frequent, it removes a sense of progress at the gut feeling level.

I noticed how I stopped liking villages some point through 1.14 snapshots. When the structures became too similar to each other (as well as smaller and more intricate), it became less interesting to live in them. There also felt like less to change because they were more detailed, but that's another story.

Quote from allyourbasesaregone»

Perhaps *this* is why a lot of times the game goes from feeling soulful to soulless for some reason. The repetition isn't inherently bad but if it is too predictably timed or too frequent, it removes a sense of progress at the gut feeling level.

I noticed how I stopped liking villages some point through 1.14 snapshots. When the structures became too similar to each other (as well as smaller and more intricate), it became less interesting to live in them. There also felt like less to change because they were more detailed, but that's another story.

Most of the effects would never be noticed by the vast majority of players; unless you deliberately enter a seed that is a multiple of 2^48 from another seed you'd never generate two "sister" seeds by randomly creating worlds since the game can only randomly generate the 48 bit base seed. Likewise, the chance of having one of the more broken seeds that repeats at a relatively small interval (say, 256 chunks or less, my first world is about 400 chunks across and the next higher interval is 512 chunks) is quite low; my main concern is the "sign reversed coordinates" issue that causes the same caves and structures to generate at as many as 1/3 of sign-reversed coordinate pairs, which would be extremely obvious in TMCW due to the uniquely large caves and ravines, hence I changed the way the chunk seed is calculated, and few players do caving on the scale that I do, even in 1.18 I seriously doubt that (the caves mentioned here are a thousand blocks apart, which is a very long distance when you are exploring the world by caving underground - a 1000x1000 block area takes me more than a month to explore at 3-4 hours per day, with a distance walked of around 20 km per day. A more extreme case is mentioned here, with the distance being nearly 5000 blocks - at that point I'd walked a total of 17 million blocks).

The issue with villages being too similar has to do with the way the game constructs them than issues with RNG seeding (e.g. the way the game lays out the paths from the well, which in turn influences the size of the village and what buildings can fit alongside them, which are also chosen from a predefined list, which I assume is less randomized than it was in older versions). 48 bits still allows for 281 trillion possible village configurations, which I highly doubt actually exist; in fact, many of the individual features in TMCW, such as trees and ore veins, internally use a basic 32 bit RNG since it is faster and the number of possible configurations is far less than even 4 billion (e.g. a small oak has 3 possible heights and 4096 arrangements of leaves for a total of 12288 combinations, and 3/4 of those are just rotated around the y-axis); only their placement uses a 64 bit RNG).

Note also that even a 64 bit RNG only has enough states to ensure that every chunk has a unique seed in 1.3 million worlds (within +/- 30 million blocks), which is only one in 14 trillion worlds - all together there are 2.6 x 10^32 chunks in every world, which would require 108 bits with a perfect seed distribution (no hash collisions, which in practice means you want more bits; there are such things as 128 and higher bit RNGs and hash algorithms but the performance hit isn't worth it, since again, most players will never notice as the relative layout of chunks also matters, hence why the "sign-reversed coordinates" issue is not that apparent, aside from larger caves, as seen here).

Quote from allyourbasesaregone»

Perhaps *this* is why a lot of times the game goes from feeling soulful to soulless for some reason. The repetition isn't inherently bad but if it is too predictably timed or too frequent, it removes a sense of progress at the gut feeling level.

I noticed how I stopped liking villages some point through 1.14 snapshots. When the structures became too similar to each other (as well as smaller and more intricate), it became less interesting to live in them. There also felt like less to change because they were more detailed, but that's another story.

Repetition when done excessively in a game is always a bad thing, because this is what tends to make a game boring, it doesn't matter what reason it is done for, if it becomes too much of a situation of "been there done that" then it makes players inclined to not want to do it anymore.

This is why people complain about grind fests when rewards are either excessively punishing to get, or are simply too time consuming.

It's the reason why people got upset about the 1.17 ore distribution recently.

and on the topic of structures, I don't like it when they're too similar any more than you do, nobody does, and I do wished Nether Fortresses would get an update because there isn't much variation in any of them. Yeah they've got chests with horse armour, diamonds and Blaze spawners etc. We've had this trope for years, a Nether Fortress update would be much appreciated, although there hasn't been any announcement of them getting improved.

So far, with the Nether update from 1.16, all we've got is new Nether biomes and bastions, which don't get me wrong, they're cool,

but I would like existing Nether structures to be improved. Beside from diamond armour which you'd likely already be wearing by the time you went into the Nether, and a few Netherite scraps, not enough to upgrade one tool let alone an entire armour set, all you get is a Snout Banner and Pigstep disc, and a low chance to get a Soul Speed book or two, which isn't a great enchantment, seeing as it damages your boots when you use it. I do find the lanterns useful however, saves iron.

I hear 1.19 is going to have frogs, mangrove trees and fireflies, no mention of changes to the Nether, though,

mostly Overworld stuff from what a reliable friend told me. Overworld is getting improvements at least,

so no complaints about that one.

i guess i am missing out on minecraft. never been to the nether. still trying to live in the overworld.

Quote from chaskuchar1»

i guess i am missing out on minecraft. never been to the nether. still trying to live in the overworld.

The Nether is fun, especially when you find Nether fortresses because you get to fight Wither Skeletons, sometimes Endermen will spawn and attack you on the bridges of Nether fortresses, because it is possible for Endermen to spawn in the Nether, anywhere, but will commonly spawn in Warped forests.

If you find yourself a Blaze Spawner, you can get yourself all the Blaze rods you'd ever need, for making ender chests, eye of ender for the End portal, or brewing stands.

TMC, that's a good point. The repetition isn't obvious to the average player. That said, even partial repetition from similar cave endings and such can begin to make you feel like you're in the matrix movies, because you'd think a natural looking world wouldn't have that, right?

As for this nether fortress discussion, the only changes I've seen since 1.6 with fortresses, besides some room balancing, is that mobs are more frequent and terrain from 1.16 can float its way inside fortress space or even replace it in the case of fossils.

Quote from allyourbasesaregone»

TMC, that's a good point. The repetition isn't obvious to the average player. That said, even partial repetition from similar cave endings and such can begin to make you feel like you're in the matrix movies, because you'd think a natural looking world wouldn't have that, right?

As for this nether fortress discussion, the only changes I've seen since 1.6 with fortresses, besides some room balancing, is that mobs are more frequent and terrain from 1.16 can float its way inside fortress space or even replace it in the case of fossils.

That's the problem with Nether fortresses, there isn't enough variety in them, and worse, their generation is rarer in 1.16 and beyond which means players are forced to go through more repetition to progress in the game. Instead what Mojang should have done is added more different hostile mobs that spawn within them, as well as added more chambers in the Nether fortress and more loot to find, perhaps even another music disc if Lena Raine wanted to make one.

We've still got Blaze spawners, but the only thing they ever drop besides XP is blaze rods, they've not been changed in 1.17 or 1.18.

One thing I won't do though is endorse TMC's suggestion in the past about nerfing mob spawners so they drop nothing even if manually killed. It would completely defeat the point of having a mob spawner since those are supposed to be the rewards for finding one. If they weren't, why would Mojang have added them to begin with? it would be pure stupidity to add something like this only to take it away later on just because a fandom wanted them removed. I do agree that their spawn rates should be increased though, to make them more challenging, I disagree with the idea of removing farming from Minecraft though.

Bedrock generated experimental 17.30 or something like that. I've explored an entire chunk, made a strip mine at level=15, several other mines, and for all my efforts.... I have a whopping 6 iron ore. Was only just able to craft an iron pickaxe.

While the caves are cool, I hate the new ore generation. Think I'll return to my old world where I'm not stuck in the stone age.

i like the new music. i can just put the minecraft header on the desktop and listen to the music doing other things like taking a nap. very relaxing music. this is from the latest update.

Quote from Agtrigormortis»

One thing I won't do though is endorse TMC's suggestion in the past about nerfing mob spawners so they drop nothing even if manually killed.

Yet again, there is a big misunderstanding here - what I did was make it so that if a spawner continuously spawns more than about 50 mobs (at or near its maximum spawn rate) they will stop dropping XP and items until it is allowed to "recharge", after which it can spawn up to another 50 mobs with drops, which is more than enough to get all the blaze rods you'll need in normal circumstances, even without Looting (an average of 0.5 per blaze gives 25 blaze rods, enough for 50 eyes of ender; blaze powder isn't needed for brewing stands in 1.6.4/TMCW so it is in less demand than in current vanilla versions but it appears that a single blaze powder can fuel 20 brewing operations of up to 3 potions each, which is more than I ever use a brewing stand in a world):

private void setCooldownThreshold()
{
    // Threshold is set for about 50 mobs at a 100% success rate per spawn cycle before drops are disabled
    this.cooldownThreshold = 50000 - 25 * (this.minSpawnDelay + this.maxSpawnDelay) / this.spawnCount;
}

if (this.spawnMob(world, entityLiving))
{
    // Disables mob drops for 60 seconds (1200 ticks) if too many mobs spawn within a short period of time,
    // which continues until they stop spawning
    if (this.cooldownCounter > this.cooldownThreshold) entityLiving.disableDrops();
    this.cooldownCounter += 1000;
    if (this.cooldownCounter > this.cooldownThreshold) this.cooldownCounter = this.cooldownThreshold + 1200;
}

// cooldownCounter is decremented 4 times faster when out of range, taking about 10 minutes to drop
// from the threshold to 0 (not applied if it is above the threshold)
if (this.cooldownCounter > 0)
{
    this.cooldownCounter -= (isActive && this.cooldownCounter < this.cooldownThreshold ? 4 : 1);
    if (this.cooldownCounter < 0) this.cooldownCounter = 0;
}

// Decrements spawnDelay even when out of range; 20 is the initial value when a spawner is created
if (!isActive && this.spawnDelay > 20) --this.spawnDelay;

This was added to balance out the much higher spawn rates from spawners, which spawn mobs at an average rate of up to 6 every 10 seconds (5-15), compared to 4 every 25 seconds (10-40) in vanilla, or 3.75 times faster (I find vanilla dungeons to be exceedingly easy to defeat; there isn't even any point in lighting them up fully when I can just run in and break the spawner after killing the mob or two that it spawned, if even that since the spawn delay does not count down when you are out of range and while it defaults to 1 second it may have been activated before while I was exploring nearby, hence the last line of code shown above).

Also, I got this idea from unused code/NBT data that used to be in the game; I have no idea what it was supposed to do exactly (the Wiki seems to be the only source that mentions the tags listed; source code that I found for 1.0.0 doesn't mention it) but it seems to have only affected XP drops (i.e. a spawner can provide a limited amount of XP until it needs to recharge):

1.3.1 12w21a MaxExperience, RemainingExperience, ExperienceRegenTick, ExperienceRegenRate and ExperienceRegenAmount from MobSpawner have been removed.

https://minecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Chunk_format#History

Quote from TheMasterCaver»

Yet again, there is a big misunderstanding here - what I did was make it so that if a spawner continuously spawns more than about 50 mobs (at or near its maximum spawn rate) they will stop dropping XP and items until it is allowed to "recharge", after which it can spawn up to another 50 mobs with drops, which is more than enough to get all the blaze rods you'll need in normal circumstances, even without Looting (an average of 0.5 per blaze gives 25 blaze rods, enough for 50 eyes of ender; blaze powder isn't needed for brewing stands in 1.6.4/TMCW so it is in less demand than in current vanilla versions but it appears that a single blaze powder can fuel 20 brewing operations of up to 3 potions each, which is more than I ever use a brewing stand in a world):

private void setCooldownThreshold()
{
    // Threshold is set for about 50 mobs at a 100% success rate per spawn cycle before drops are disabled
    this.cooldownThreshold = 50000 - 25 * (this.minSpawnDelay + this.maxSpawnDelay) / this.spawnCount;
}

if (this.spawnMob(world, entityLiving))
{
    // Disables mob drops for 60 seconds (1200 ticks) if too many mobs spawn within a short period of time,
    // which continues until they stop spawning
    if (this.cooldownCounter > this.cooldownThreshold) entityLiving.disableDrops();
    this.cooldownCounter += 1000;
    if (this.cooldownCounter > this.cooldownThreshold) this.cooldownCounter = this.cooldownThreshold + 1200;
}

// cooldownCounter is decremented 4 times faster when out of range, taking about 10 minutes to drop
// from the threshold to 0 (not applied if it is above the threshold)
if (this.cooldownCounter > 0)
{
    this.cooldownCounter -= (isActive && this.cooldownCounter < this.cooldownThreshold ? 4 : 1);
    if (this.cooldownCounter < 0) this.cooldownCounter = 0;
}

// Decrements spawnDelay even when out of range; 20 is the initial value when a spawner is created
if (!isActive && this.spawnDelay > 20) --this.spawnDelay;

This was added to balance out the much higher spawn rates from spawners, which spawn mobs at an average rate of up to 6 every 10 seconds (5-15), compared to 4 every 25 seconds (10-40) in vanilla, or 3.75 times faster (I find vanilla dungeons to be exceedingly easy to defeat; there isn't even any point in lighting them up fully when I can just run in and break the spawner after killing the mob or two that it spawned, if even that since the spawn delay does not count down when you are out of range and while it defaults to 1 second it may have been activated before while I was exploring nearby, hence the last line of code shown above).

Also, I got this idea from unused code/NBT data that used to be in the game; I have no idea what it was supposed to do exactly (the Wiki seems to be the only source that mentions the tags listed; source code that I found for 1.0.0 doesn't mention it) but it seems to have only affected XP drops (i.e. a spawner can provide a limited amount of XP until it needs to recharge):

Fine, I misunderstood what you meant and I've seemed to forgotten what you wrote, I apologize.

However let's remember that mob spawners in some cases are the only way to get resources in a renewable form, not all, but some,

there are exceptions here, for example Skeleton spawners do drop bones which can be used for bone meal and white dye.

But compost bins are able to make bone meal out of plants, so Skeleton spawners are no longer necessary for that once you've got a reasonably sized crop field set up and have amassed enough surplus plant based material to convert to bone meal. Although it is rare that you'd actually need a double chest worth of bone meal seeing as how fast wheat, carrots and potatoes can grow, and how long people are able to maintain their hunger points. You know as well as I do that just by standing around idling, you burn no calories, it is only when you sprint or jump that hunger points begin to drain.

I agreed with your suggestion that walking should drain hunger points, albeit not to the same degree as sprinting or jumping.

Using tools drains hunger points if I'm not mistaken though, I do remember hunger draining when mining blocks.

However there are some cases where resources can only be obtained from farming a mob spawner, or Nether Fortress itself, blaze rods cannot be obtained without a blaze spawner or Nether Fortress, unless you've used cheats or mods,

it goes without saying it is also the only renewable source.

Perhaps this could be adjusted by simply having more Blazes spawn naturally within the fortress itself,

at light levels lower than 11 which the official wiki specifies.

You do make a good point though, 50 drops from Blazes should be enough for most people, assuming they had used looting enchantment

to duplicate the blaze rod drops. There aren't many cases where you'd actually need more than two to four stacks of blaze rods.

1 blaze rod gets you 2 blaze powder, easily enough for fueling 2x brewing stands.

One stack of blaze rods will be enough to craft 2 stacks of Ender Chests.

Why anybody would need more Ender chests than this per session or real life day worth of gameplay, I really don't know.

Even if they had friends on their server their friends could simply get their own blaze rods from a separate Blaze spawner,

problem solved.

Looking at it this way, a cool down that activates per 50 Blaze drops,

doesn't seem that bad to be honest. Usually if somebody is in a situation where they're needing more than 4 stacks

of blaze rods in that exact moment or real life day, they're probably doing something wrong.

Blaze rods cannot be used for dyes,

Ender Chests work the same no matter where you are

or how many you place down.

And you only need to activate one End Portal to get to End in any stronghold.

Each brewing stand can make 3 potions per recipe.

Blaze rods can be used as a fuel source,

but there are much more easily to obtain fuel resources in the Overworld,

charcoal is more efficient, not because of how many items you can cook or smelt, but because of how easy it is to acquire

and you don't risk getting burned to death while doing it.

Quote from sunperp»

Please don't reply to the spam, just report it and move on.

I'd advise making a filter that immediately removes said posts in future.

In email services when something is not trustworthy the spam filter automatically sends it to the junk mail folder,

it's every day you're getting spam now, and the rest of us end up getting notifications from it when we're expecting opinions, thoughts or advise from people who are replying to something we wrote or a suggestion somebody else had made. If something is pointless it doesn't need to exist, period.

I like the new caves, the new village generation, and i love the new terrain height. Always wanted to do Moria. Now its possible. Overall 88/100.

I think 1.18 is the worst update Minecraft has ever had! The terrain is too hilly and there are barely any flat areas! The new caves are making it impossible to find diamonds at y11 like I'm used to doing! The only thing I like is that emerald is more common as it generates sometimes on the sides of mountains. The mountains look cool and realistic though.