You like ever-increasing difficulty and monsters destroying your time and effort; to me they're nasty, mean and horrible.(Monster wants to kill me? Fine. Monster wants to tear down my nice neat walls - or fly through them and slaughter my pet villagers? Not fine)
I like blocks, plants and (gender-free, low-maintenance) animals; to you they're boring and unnecessary.
We both like toys, though probably for different reasons.
You don't want to stop me enjoying my boredom; don't let me stop you enjoying your horrors.
You like ever-increasing difficulty and monsters destroying your time and effort; to me they're nasty, mean and horrible.(Monster wants to kill me? Fine. Monster wants to tear down my nice neat walls - or fly through them and slaughter my pet villagers? Not fine)
I like blocks, plants and (gender-free, low-maintenance) animals; to you they're boring and unnecessary.
We both like toys, though probably for different reasons.
You don't want to stop me enjoying my boredom; don't let me stop you enjoying your horrors.
If we transition the game it will get easier and less creative. Creative solutions will be less, everything will get easier and it won't be the minecraft we enjoy.
Plus they all are getting the money so why change hahah
If we transition the game it will get easier and less creative. Creative solutions will be less, everything will get easier and it won't be the minecraft we enjoy.
Plus they all are getting the money so why change hahah
What do you mean by that? How would the game become less creative? What are these "creative solutions" your talking about? Are you saying that the game would be less creative if it had big changes? That's like saying vertical slabs limit creativity.
They are adding new biomes. There's the new Basalt Delta, Crimson Forest, Nether Wastes, Soul Sand Valley and Warped Forest now, but I can see where you're coming from with the mobs. Sure, bees add to the aesthetic of the game but there is no major use for them other than honey. Even then you can't do much with it. Thing is though, it's hard on the developers to make updates that keep Minecraft like Minecraft. I think if you want any major overhauls to the game you should just stick with mods.
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I agree if you. I think Mojang could be taking the game in a more meaningful direction, instead of just adding random updates. Mojang needs more planning and to make updates that match more the nature of the game. Watch this video here: , as it talks about this subject.
Thing is though, it's hard on the developers to make updates that keep Minecraft like Minecraft. I think if you want any major overhauls to the game you should just stick with mods.
That's exactly what confuses me,this is the kind of thing I'm wondering about.What is defined as "like Minecraft" or Minecraft-like? And how are major overhauls to the game considered not like Minecraft? Do the updates really have to be small and cosmetic in order to be "like Minecraft".
I agree if you. I think Mojang could be taking the game in a more meaningful direction, instead of just adding random updates. Mojang needs more planning and to make updates that match more the nature of the game. Watch this video here: , as it talks about this subject.
Yeah it would be absolutely great if they really overhauled how certain systems and features work to make them better than they currently are, add a bunch more features like at least the size of the Aether mod, and overall add both more incentive to play survival, and add more unique decoration blocks(such as vertical slabs or colored lighting blocks)for creative.
But nooo... apparently that would "ruin the feel of the game" whatever that is or "ruin Minecraft's simplicity" somehow.
The Minecraft we have been playing has really changed atmosphere several times in the last decade. I consider there to be several time periods given by the type of structures added, and our current era (1.13-1.16) makes the game feel very RPG-like.
The eras if anyone cares: 'squareish' (dungeons, mines, strongholds), 'temple' (huts, pyramids, jungle temples), 'mausoleum' (monuments, mansions, igloos), and 'RPG' (villages, ocean ruins, bastions)
The eras if anyone cares: 'squareish' (dungeons, mines, strongholds), 'temple' (huts, pyramids, jungle temples), 'mausoleum' (monuments, mansions, igloos), and 'RPG' (villages, ocean ruins, bastions)
Villages were added in Beta 1.8 so they should be in the first era (with trading added in 1.3, along with temples, with witch huts added in 1.4); they may have changed some since then but they are still basically the same (mostly how you get new professions; before you bred them and hoped that you'd get what you want, now you can force them via workstations).
That said, I'd split the game into pre-1.7 and post-1.7 for obvious reasons; caves were much more extensive and interesting and underground structures more common prior to 1.7, along with a much greater regional variation in biomes (there were no restrictions on where deserts/snowy biomes could generate, leading to a far greater variation in world generation). The 1.7+ era is the "long distance exploration era" where you have to travel incredible distances to find everything (mansions are often 10000+ blocks away, with special maps to help locate them, previously only strongholds had a means to locate them which was understandable since they were buried, and they used to be much closer to spawn). Changes to biome generation likewise means that you can no longer (or without a lot of searching/using seeds/luck) have multiple types of biomes within a short distance of spawn/base, making it much harder to find their resources/structures. More biomes doesn't help but they way they are laid out makes it unnecessarily difficult to find drastically different biomes:
The first rendering is of the initial spawn area generated when a new world is created, which is 400x400 blocks; you can see a desert and snowy biome in the corners, with a jungle next to the latter; the first structure I found in this world was a jungle temple, with a village in the desert (despite being so close I didn't find the desert and village until I went to find a stronghold, which lead me through it; likewise, I only found the snowy biome after I started caving after completing the normal game):
This shows what 1.7+ worlds might look like if they used a similar biome placement as older versions (there are "climate zones" in TMCW but they aren't as restrictive as in vanilla; hot/cold areas only make hot/cold biomes more common and exclude cold/hot biomes with all other biomes present; the 1.7+ scheme gives each zone their own set of biomes, most of them exclusive to their zones, with entire climate zones able to be taken up by biomes like jungle and mesa (this is a large factor in why these biomes are hard to find, not so much because they are rare; as seen here, there are 4 separate mesa biomes, while 1.7+ would have a single larger biome, likely much larger than these combined, so you'd need to explore a much larger area to find one):
This is a list of everything that I've found, totaling more than a thousand individual structures/features, including one of everything that can be found unless you include all village variants (Savanna villages), not every biome has been found:
Structures/caves found (by number):
368 normal dungeons (including 3 double dungeons)
308 ravines (up to 10 intersecting; large ravines counted separately)
115 mineshafts
64 large caves (larger than vanilla, not including giant caves)
49 large cave systems (the sort of swiss cheese cave found prior to 1.7)
27 large ravines (larger than vanilla)
19 double dungeons (a special type of dungeon; one combined with a normal dungeon)
14 giant caves (>50000 in volume)
12 fossils
12 maze cave clusters
12 ravine cave clusters
11 circular room cave clusters
10 circular rooms at least 34 blocks in diameter (twice as large as vanilla)
7 vertical cave clusters
7 villages (3 Desert, 2 Plains, 1 Ice Plains, 1 Meadow)
6 ravine cave systems
5 circular room cave systems
5 combination cave systems
5 vertical cave systems
4 igloos (2 with basement)
4 network cave regions
3 jungle temples
3 maze cave systems
3 strongholds (2 found by caving)
2 colossal cave systems
2 desert temples
2 desert wells
2 witch huts
1 giant cave region
(1082 individual structures/caves)
Biomes found (by order found):
Plains (spawn biome; technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Mixed Forest
Lake (technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Jungle
Birch Forest
Poplar Grove (technical biome in Birch Forest)
Desert
Tropical Swamp
Big Oak Forest
Taiga (snowless)
Rocky Mountains
Ice Plains
Roofed Forest
Mesa
Winter Forest
Forest Mountains
Bushlands
Mountainous Desert
Swampland
Hilly Plains
Winter Taiga
Frozen Lake (technical biome in Winter Forest and others)
Mega Tree Plains
Spruce Hills (technical biome in Mega Tree Plains)
Mega Forest
Plains
Forest (technical biome in Plains)
Forest
Lake
Savanna Mountains
Poplar Grove
Mega Mixed Forest
Savanna Plateau
Flower Forest
Extreme Hills
Meadow
Meadow Forest (technical biome in Meadow)
Ocean
Desert M
Oasis (technical biome in Desert M)
(36 unique biomes, not including variants like Hills, River, Edge)
I believe mansions requiring a biome size of 3+ in 1.12 custom worlds is why the biomes are much larger nowadays, but it's a bad excuse.
But biomes haven't been changed since 1.7 (a comparison of 1.7 to 1.14, which is still virtually the same in 1.16), and the default size has always been 4; the issue with mansions is that they need a 64x64 block area around them to be entirely Roofed Forest or Roofed Forest Hills (for comparison, a biome size of 4 results in an average width of 256 blocks per biome; 3 is 128 and 2 is 64. It doesn't help either that Roofed Forest has Plains as a sub-biome, which breaks it up even on default worlds). As mentioned before, the main issue with 1.7 is the "climate zones" - vast areas which contain only a few similar biomes and their rarer variants; not only that, most of the world is "cool"/"warm", which share many of the same biomes:
Whilst biome variety varies slightly in these five examples, you'll see the same 4-5 biomes make up the vast majority of what is a huge playable area - 6000 by 3500 blocks [the examples given are actually 11008x6880] is larger than many people will ever explore, and the issue persists even up to the 20000s. Plains, spruce forests, ordinary forests, swamps, and hills are the vast majority of the biomes. Deserts, taigas, dark oak forests, and jungles are sprinkled about, with the occasional savanna or mesa, but these are much less common compared to the rest of the biomes here.
In fact, the "climate zone" code in 1.7 is just a modification of the code that 1.6 uses to add snowy areas (Ice Plains and Taiga, the latter of which also generates elsewhere, unlike 1.7), with another stage added to separate them by converting adjacent hot/snowy areas to warm/cool (likewise, the basic land/ocean generation is still the same except a later stage fills in most of the oceans with land):
Note that the snowy areas look a lot like the ones in 1.7, which isn't surprising since very similar code is used to add them:
In fact, MCP uses the same name as in 1.7+; the main difference is that 1.7+ adds two different climate zones (assigned numbers instead of biome IDs) which initially total 33% of land (1.6.4 makes 20% of land Ice Plains, which in turn only allows Taiga to replace it), which is subsequently reduced by the separation process:
Everyone! The Caves & Cliffs Update A.K.A. The Cave Update we've been hoping for has just been announced! What do you all think of the features revealed so far?
And BTW mods this might have something to do about this thread since it's about the direction of the game, I'm just asking if the cave update has affected anything and what these people think of it so please don't delete my comment.
What most of you on the side that doesn't enjoy combat recognise, is that the game has gotten easier, like it or not.
As another member on this discussion said, the player keeps getting stronger but the challenges don't. Take for example update aquatic. Before it the only sources of ores were rare chests (village, mineshaft, stronghold, mansion, or spawner) or mining, and the occasional mob drop. And after it, we have extremely easy access to diamonds through shipwrecks, and treasure maps.
This isn't the sole example. 1.16 added bartering and that makes grinding for pearls extremely easy now.
People might argue that there is nothing wrong with the game becoming easier, but I wish to reply. With every single buff to the player side, the subsequent ones become less felt. Take archeology for example. What's so great about finding an emerald block when you can trade for it, or find a chest with a considerable amount of emeralds, through swimming in the ocean.
I believe mojang is already taking steps to fix this though. They added the warden, which will be a match for even the most equipped adventurer. My belief is that now when mojang added a lot of atmosphere into the world, they will now start introducing multiple sources of challenge.
If I was to give feedback, I wouldn't ask them to make an entirely new game mode. I'd rather add a difficulty between easy and medium that has the same stats as medium, then change medium difficulty to hard, and change hard into something even more difficult, designed to constantly keep players on their toes. Imagine a zombie that can 4-shot a naked player.
What most of you on the side that doesn't enjoy combat recognise, is that the game has gotten easier, like it or not.
As another member on this discussion said, the player keeps getting stronger but the challenges don't. Take for example update aquatic. Before it the only sources of ores were rare chests (village, mineshaft, stronghold, mansion, or spawner) or mining, and the occasional mob drop. And after it, we have extremely easy access to diamonds through shipwrecks, and treasure maps.
This isn't the sole example. 1.16 added bartering and that makes grinding for pearls extremely easy now.
People might argue that there is nothing wrong with the game becoming easier, but I wish to reply. With every single buff to the player side, the subsequent ones become less felt. Take archeology for example. What's so great about finding an emerald block when you can trade for it, or find a chest with a considerable amount of emeralds, through swimming in the ocean.
I believe mojang is already taking steps to fix this though. They added the warden, which will be a match for even the most equipped adventurer. My belief is that now when mojang added a lot of atmosphere into the world, they will now start introducing multiple sources of challenge.
If I was to give feedback, I wouldn't ask them to make an entirely new game mode. I'd rather add a difficulty between easy and medium that has the same stats as medium, then change medium difficulty to hard, and change hard into something even more difficult, designed to constantly keep players on their toes. Imagine a zombie that can 4-shot a naked player.
Mojang counts on players staying in spot in early game, I think, which would make sense if not for beds, and salmon and cod as a very cheap food source.
You like ever-increasing difficulty and monsters destroying your time and effort; to me they're nasty, mean and horrible.(Monster wants to kill me? Fine. Monster wants to tear down my nice neat walls - or fly through them and slaughter my pet villagers? Not fine)
I like blocks, plants and (gender-free, low-maintenance) animals; to you they're boring and unnecessary.
We both like toys, though probably for different reasons.
You don't want to stop me enjoying my boredom; don't let me stop you enjoying your horrors.
I mean some of those proposed changes going around the internet and still are on to this day, if implemented, wouldn't be any better than forcing whitelisted players into public matches with people knowing full well that other players will invade other player bases without their consent and destroy weeks or even months worth of work, while some people would welcome the change for the sake of a challenge, to other's this imposed development decision would be quite toxic and unwelcome, so a compromise needs to be made.
But there's no good reason for having monsters invade player well lit and guarded bases on normal and easy difficulties. If changes like that with hostile mobs got made for hardcore players, then it would be different because hardcore is supposed to be an unforgiving difficulty for players, and I also agreed with Whitelight's suggestion to add another game mode for the option of infinite respawns but still providing players things like smarter mob AI and other buffs to them that would remind players that said difficulty isn't pulling any punches or holding their hand.
I don't believe that Minecraft needs to be a sandbox by default, and forcing that on other individuals who only play it for entertainment purposes is not an option. I believe there should be two game modes, with the existing mode acting as a compromise between the creative mode and the full RPG experience I've proposed.
Yes, I would also suggest adding in exclusive achievements for this newer game mode, and achievements which are challenge specific
Surviving a certain number of in game days without dying,
Doing the same but without armour, a rarer and harder to get achievement,
Surviving 10 in game days without using a bed,
Defeating a raid within a time limit,
Filling a chest up with bones or arrows without a mob spawner or trade, natural skeleton spawns only and no fish bones,
I am sure other people can think of a lot better ones than me on this but these are just some examples to name.
Expanding this newer mode with its own exclusive challenges and a full RPG/survival experience, is the way forward I think.
Nobody is being ostracized, everyone gets a piece of the action.
Some other games get a classic vs modern mode, I see no reason why Minecraft shouldn't.
You like ever-increasing difficulty and monsters destroying your time and effort; to me they're nasty, mean and horrible.(Monster wants to kill me? Fine. Monster wants to tear down my nice neat walls - or fly through them and slaughter my pet villagers? Not fine)
I like blocks, plants and (gender-free, low-maintenance) animals; to you they're boring and unnecessary.
We both like toys, though probably for different reasons.
You don't want to stop me enjoying my boredom; don't let me stop you enjoying your horrors.
Don't get that last line but yeah fair
Yeah, the entire nether update is lackluster compared to what the community have done to the nether ages ago
If we transition the game it will get easier and less creative. Creative solutions will be less, everything will get easier and it won't be the minecraft we enjoy.
Plus they all are getting the money so why change hahah
What do you mean by that? How would the game become less creative? What are these "creative solutions" your talking about? Are you saying that the game would be less creative if it had big changes? That's like saying vertical slabs limit creativity.
They are adding new biomes. There's the new Basalt Delta, Crimson Forest, Nether Wastes, Soul Sand Valley and Warped Forest now, but I can see where you're coming from with the mobs. Sure, bees add to the aesthetic of the game but there is no major use for them other than honey. Even then you can't do much with it. Thing is though, it's hard on the developers to make updates that keep Minecraft like Minecraft. I think if you want any major overhauls to the game you should just stick with mods.
I agree if you. I think Mojang could be taking the game in a more meaningful direction, instead of just adding random updates. Mojang needs more planning and to make updates that match more the nature of the game. Watch this video here: , as it talks about this subject.
That's exactly what confuses me,this is the kind of thing I'm wondering about.What is defined as "like Minecraft" or Minecraft-like? And how are major overhauls to the game considered not like Minecraft? Do the updates really have to be small and cosmetic in order to be "like Minecraft".
Yeah it would be absolutely great if they really overhauled how certain systems and features work to make them better than they currently are, add a bunch more features like at least the size of the Aether mod, and overall add both more incentive to play survival, and add more unique decoration blocks(such as vertical slabs or colored lighting blocks)for creative.
But nooo... apparently that would "ruin the feel of the game" whatever that is or "ruin Minecraft's simplicity" somehow.
The Minecraft we have been playing has really changed atmosphere several times in the last decade. I consider there to be several time periods given by the type of structures added, and our current era (1.13-1.16) makes the game feel very RPG-like.
The eras if anyone cares: 'squareish' (dungeons, mines, strongholds), 'temple' (huts, pyramids, jungle temples), 'mausoleum' (monuments, mansions, igloos), and 'RPG' (villages, ocean ruins, bastions)
Villages were added in Beta 1.8 so they should be in the first era (with trading added in 1.3, along with temples, with witch huts added in 1.4); they may have changed some since then but they are still basically the same (mostly how you get new professions; before you bred them and hoped that you'd get what you want, now you can force them via workstations).
That said, I'd split the game into pre-1.7 and post-1.7 for obvious reasons; caves were much more extensive and interesting and underground structures more common prior to 1.7, along with a much greater regional variation in biomes (there were no restrictions on where deserts/snowy biomes could generate, leading to a far greater variation in world generation). The 1.7+ era is the "long distance exploration era" where you have to travel incredible distances to find everything (mansions are often 10000+ blocks away, with special maps to help locate them, previously only strongholds had a means to locate them which was understandable since they were buried, and they used to be much closer to spawn). Changes to biome generation likewise means that you can no longer (or without a lot of searching/using seeds/luck) have multiple types of biomes within a short distance of spawn/base, making it much harder to find their resources/structures. More biomes doesn't help but they way they are laid out makes it unnecessarily difficult to find drastically different biomes:
This shows what 1.7+ worlds might look like if they used a similar biome placement as older versions (there are "climate zones" in TMCW but they aren't as restrictive as in vanilla; hot/cold areas only make hot/cold biomes more common and exclude cold/hot biomes with all other biomes present; the 1.7+ scheme gives each zone their own set of biomes, most of them exclusive to their zones, with entire climate zones able to be taken up by biomes like jungle and mesa (this is a large factor in why these biomes are hard to find, not so much because they are rare; as seen here, there are 4 separate mesa biomes, while 1.7+ would have a single larger biome, likely much larger than these combined, so you'd need to explore a much larger area to find one):
This is a list of everything that I've found, totaling more than a thousand individual structures/features, including one of everything that can be found unless you include all village variants (Savanna villages), not every biome has been found:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I believe mansions requiring a biome size of 3+ in 1.12 custom worlds is why the biomes are much larger nowadays, but it's a bad excuse.
But biomes haven't been changed since 1.7 (a comparison of 1.7 to 1.14, which is still virtually the same in 1.16), and the default size has always been 4; the issue with mansions is that they need a 64x64 block area around them to be entirely Roofed Forest or Roofed Forest Hills (for comparison, a biome size of 4 results in an average width of 256 blocks per biome; 3 is 128 and 2 is 64. It doesn't help either that Roofed Forest has Plains as a sub-biome, which breaks it up even on default worlds). As mentioned before, the main issue with 1.7 is the "climate zones" - vast areas which contain only a few similar biomes and their rarer variants; not only that, most of the world is "cool"/"warm", which share many of the same biomes:
In fact, the "climate zone" code in 1.7 is just a modification of the code that 1.6 uses to add snowy areas (Ice Plains and Taiga, the latter of which also generates elsewhere, unlike 1.7), with another stage added to separate them by converting adjacent hot/snowy areas to warm/cool (likewise, the basic land/ocean generation is still the same except a later stage fills in most of the oceans with land):
In fact, MCP uses the same name as in 1.7+; the main difference is that 1.7+ adds two different climate zones (assigned numbers instead of biome IDs) which initially total 33% of land (1.6.4 makes 20% of land Ice Plains, which in turn only allows Taiga to replace it), which is subsequently reduced by the separation process:
https://github.com/interactivenyc/Minecraft_SRC_MOD/blob/master/mcp811 1.6.4/src/minecraft_server/net/minecraft/src/GenLayerAddSnow.java
https://github.com/TheGrimSilence/mc-1.12.2-source_files/blob/master/src/minecraft/net/minecraft/world/gen/layer/GenLayerAddSnow.java
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I saw a video about this a few days ago, the information about Minecraft needing serious change might be helpful
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Everyone! The Caves & Cliffs Update A.K.A. The Cave Update we've been hoping for has just been announced! What do you all think of the features revealed so far?
And BTW mods this might have something to do about this thread since it's about the direction of the game, I'm just asking if the cave update has affected anything and what these people think of it so please don't delete my comment.
What most of you on the side that doesn't enjoy combat recognise, is that the game has gotten easier, like it or not.
As another member on this discussion said, the player keeps getting stronger but the challenges don't. Take for example update aquatic. Before it the only sources of ores were rare chests (village, mineshaft, stronghold, mansion, or spawner) or mining, and the occasional mob drop. And after it, we have extremely easy access to diamonds through shipwrecks, and treasure maps.
This isn't the sole example. 1.16 added bartering and that makes grinding for pearls extremely easy now.
People might argue that there is nothing wrong with the game becoming easier, but I wish to reply. With every single buff to the player side, the subsequent ones become less felt. Take archeology for example. What's so great about finding an emerald block when you can trade for it, or find a chest with a considerable amount of emeralds, through swimming in the ocean.
I believe mojang is already taking steps to fix this though. They added the warden, which will be a match for even the most equipped adventurer. My belief is that now when mojang added a lot of atmosphere into the world, they will now start introducing multiple sources of challenge.
If I was to give feedback, I wouldn't ask them to make an entirely new game mode. I'd rather add a difficulty between easy and medium that has the same stats as medium, then change medium difficulty to hard, and change hard into something even more difficult, designed to constantly keep players on their toes. Imagine a zombie that can 4-shot a naked player.
Perhaps, but there is bigger problem at Mojang's hand to handle
Mojang counts on players staying in spot in early game, I think, which would make sense if not for beds, and salmon and cod as a very cheap food source.
I mean some of those proposed changes going around the internet and still are on to this day, if implemented, wouldn't be any better than forcing whitelisted players into public matches with people knowing full well that other players will invade other player bases without their consent and destroy weeks or even months worth of work, while some people would welcome the change for the sake of a challenge, to other's this imposed development decision would be quite toxic and unwelcome, so a compromise needs to be made.
But there's no good reason for having monsters invade player well lit and guarded bases on normal and easy difficulties. If changes like that with hostile mobs got made for hardcore players, then it would be different because hardcore is supposed to be an unforgiving difficulty for players, and I also agreed with Whitelight's suggestion to add another game mode for the option of infinite respawns but still providing players things like smarter mob AI and other buffs to them that would remind players that said difficulty isn't pulling any punches or holding their hand.
Yes, I would also suggest adding in exclusive achievements for this newer game mode, and achievements which are challenge specific
Surviving a certain number of in game days without dying,
Doing the same but without armour, a rarer and harder to get achievement,
Surviving 10 in game days without using a bed,
Defeating a raid within a time limit,
Filling a chest up with bones or arrows without a mob spawner or trade, natural skeleton spawns only and no fish bones,
I am sure other people can think of a lot better ones than me on this but these are just some examples to name.
Expanding this newer mode with its own exclusive challenges and a full RPG/survival experience, is the way forward I think.
Nobody is being ostracized, everyone gets a piece of the action.
Some other games get a classic vs modern mode, I see no reason why Minecraft shouldn't.