Notch is... not exactly a great person, and had a wildly different vision for the game. He seemed more concerned with simplicity than making a fully fleshed out game, while Jeb seems to prefer the game be as deep yet approachable as possible. Notch definitely had a lot of great ideas and talent, but he also made some pretty bad choices solely for simplicity, like the original villages. I’m also afraid that his... “interesting” views would’ve leaked into the game had he stayed around, but I don’t really wanna talk about that stuff. I just don’t think it’s right to ignore them.
Limiting the discussion to which (Persson or Bergensten) was better for MC solely in terms of game design seems appropriate… [and probably necessary to avoid flame wars ]
Within that scope, Persson seems to have been more focused on creating a sandbox in which players could play as they wished, Bergensten with providing 'things' for players to do (and rather heavy-handedly 'encouraging' that his vision not be abused by clever players utilising game mechanics to advance their prefered playstyle…)
This is complicated by the fact the Persson was (at least for a time) the sole authority on what would/would not be added whereas Bergensten has never been more than an employee (albeit a high ranking one, at least recently). [Insufficiently familiar with Swedish stock reporting requirememts to be certain, but there seems to be no evidence of Bergensten owning a meaningful percentage of stock – either before or after the MS buy-out.]
Two further complicating factors: Persson's effectively sole control also ended over a period after much/most of the basic mechanics had been establish and Bergensten's additions to MC until late 2015 occured under the [presumptive] supervision/approval by Persson.
Simply from a timeline, Persson can be assumed responsible [between the two] for content pre-November 2010 [when Bergensten was hired] and Bergensten for (at least strong input into) all content after about November 2014 (possibly with some material added shortly after that date put 'in the pipe' by Persson having been effectively unstoppable). Material added between early 2012 and late 2014 is ambiguous as Bergensten had been given a lead developemnet role, but Persson was still owner of the company [and presumably retained a veto].
This would land the divisiveness of 1.9, the continuing increases in lagginess, the misimplementation of mobs and mechanics in 1.13, and the griefing of at least two fundamental game mechanics in 1.14 clearly on Bergensten's watch. [Note that the degree to which Bergensten can veto 'executive meddling' is unknown, but presumptively far from absolute.]
To what extent Bergensten is personally to blame for the recent problems is also unclear [MS is not noted for being an arms-length corporate master], but MC does appear to have sufferd significantly during his watch.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why does everything have to be so stoopid?" Harvey Pekar (from American Splendor)
WARNING: I have an extemely "grindy" playstyle; YMMV — if this doesn't seem fun to you, mine what you can from it & bin the rest.
While we do owe certain things to Notch, if he stuck around they probably wouldn't receive changes that ironed out their flaws. EX: villagers, the end, etc. I could probably go on naming stuff.
I find it very distasteful that they removed Notch due to his political standing. Labeling him as a radical conspiracy theorist. (Can look the article up). Yet I find reference to Eric Gartzke on the title screen. #gartzkebrokeit. I have the pic to back the claim. This is the 360 version by the way. Why is politics being introduced into a kids game. What place does it have. Seems a bit hypocritical to say one form isn't allowed but the other is. Shame on Microsoft. Lost a ten plus year customer. Which I am sure doesn't phase them.
I find it very distasteful that they removed Notch due to his political standing. Labeling him as a radical conspiracy theorist. (Can look the article up). Yet I find reference to Eric Gartzke on the title screen. #gartzkebrokeit. I have the pic to back the claim. This is the 360 version by the way. Why is politics being introduced into a kids game. What place does it have. Seems a bit hypocritical to say one form isn't allowed but the other is. Shame on Microsoft. Lost a ten plus year customer. Which I am sure doesn't phase them.
The 360 version? They probably had that splash on there since like, back when it was first released. In other words, back when Mojang & 4J were relatively smaller and less prone to criticism regarding controversial splash text. They probably don't have anything like that on the more modern versions of the game.
Not to mention the fact that they've long discontinued that & pretty much all non Bedrock/Java versions of the game. EX: PS3, Wii U, etc.
It was announced that the 360 would receive a final update and would be the last. Aquatic update final. That was around December I believe. We have owned the game since it's release and never had seen it prior to the surprise update where Notch was removed from any splash text about a month ago. You can look up the article about this. After which this one appeared. We would always use the splash text at least once to see if it was a good map seed lol.
Putting aside personal feelings toward either of the two, I think it is much better under Jeb's direction than Notch's. Notch got the game started, but Jeb and Dinnerbone have made it what it is now, which is a much better game than how Notch left it. Not to mention a ton of the work they have been putting into the game fixing all the weird ways Notch programmed that were inefficient and sloppy (there is a reason that the term "notchcode" on Urban Dictionary means badly written code). They've basically had to rewrite most of the engine to get around all the limitations from what Notch created.
To sum it up: Jeb is a professional developer. Notch is an amateur who got lucky and struck gold.
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Putting aside personal feelings toward either of the two, I think it is much better under Jeb's direction than Notch's. Notch got the game started, but Jeb and Dinnerbone have made it what it is now, which is a much better game than how Notch left it. Not to mention a ton of the work they have been putting into the game fixing all the weird ways Notch programmed that were inefficient and sloppy (there is a reason that the term "notchcode" on Urban Dictionary means badly written code). They've basically had to rewrite most of the engine to get around all the limitations from what Notch created.
To sum it up: Jeb is a professional developer. Notch is an amateur who got lucky and struck gold.
Only thing is, the new "jeb" code is MUCH more resource intensive - they always claim that they've improved performance but I never see this happen, always the opposite (across major versions, e.g. 1.12 to 1.13; any patches, e.g. 1.13.2, never completely revert the impact of major updates). Even the creator of Optifine (who has pointed out many of the issues) says that the old code was much more efficient; for example, older versions only need to allocate 1-2 MB of memory per second, around 10 times that when moving around, but 1.8+ versions allocate around 5 times that just when standing still, 10 times when moving (that is, 100 times the rate when standing still in 1.6.4 explained here, and here they describe the game as an "overengineered monster" - which it clearly is given that they've added more to the size of the game (code size and number of classes) in many single major updates since 1.8 than entire versions had before - 1.13 (5.6 MB larger than 1.12.2) most definitely did not add more new content than all of 1.7.10 (5 MB); in fact, the jar for 1.6.4 (4.5 MB) is actually smaller than 1.5.2 (5.3 MB) and 1.4.7 (4.8 MB), indicating that they actually streamlined the code between 1.5 and 1.6.
For comparison, this is what I had in my old computer, which had severe performance issues in 1.8 (they only worsened with later updates) on a CPU that doubled the recommended requirements for 1.6 (the single-thread rating is about the same, but the client and server run on separate threads, and 1.8 multithreaded chunk rendering so performance should be better):
When the system requirements have increased so much that the minimum CPU is 8 times better than what used to be recommended there is something very wrong; despite all the hundreds of new features that I've added to TMCW its requirements have not increased - and even decreased; I include this note in the Readme for the upcoming developmental version of TMCW, which has over 300+ features so far (and counting) but has also made many optimizations:
512 MB is more than enough as TMCW is very lightweight, even less demanding than vanilla, and allocating more memory than needed slows things down; you also do not need the fancy arguments that modern versions need due to their insane demands on the JVM due to rampant object allocation and terribly optimized code.
They also claim that they improved world generation speed in 1.13 - yet it is even slower than 1.12 for me, and around 6 times slower than vanilla 1.6.4 - and 10 times slower than my own world generator - which is more complex than 1.13's, yet about 50% faster than vanilla (much of my own code is actually not very different from the "Notch" code; for example, my 3-4x faster lighting engine (1.14 supposedly made it faster yet I still see people complaining about lag) mostly runs faster due to more efficient access to chunk data, the actual algorithm is the same as the one described as "fast" on this page; there are faster ways mentioned but many game mechanics depend on light values so light isn't just visual, as a shader would be).
Likewise, 1.13 (haven't checked 1.14 yet) takes 10 times longer to load than even my self-modded version based on 1.6.4 (I just have to love the addition of the loading bars to 1.14, which shouldn't even bee needed - I click on a world to play and it loads within a second; the launcher actually takes longer to prepare the files (for some reason it unpacks the natives every time the game is started) than the game itself takes to launch, as seen when comparing launch speed within MCP to the launcher).
Some of the "issues" that were supposedly fixed in newer versions also shouldn't have become issues so soon, such as the wasteful use of block IDs (all shulker boxes could have used a single ID, storing their color as an NBT tag in their tile entity; new types of fences could have likewise used metadata to store their variant, as I did myself - as well as Bedrock Edition. By making heavy use of metadata and visual rendered states (e.g. fences determined their visual appearance based on neighboring blocks) I've been able to add hundreds of new blocks yet have only used 1/10 as many new IDs with around 70 left; this includes code changes so metadata can control things like hardness and light level (e.g. redstone ore used two block IDs since vanilla can only define the light level for a block as a whole, while I can add such blocks using a single ID, even a block with 16 light levels). The fact that they even made previously render-only states part of the saved data has also led to numerous bugs and glitches (e.g. "snowy" grass without snow on top, which was previously determined at render time by checking for snow-based blocks above; since the game already checks the block above to determine if it should render the face this doesn't waste any time compared to reading cached data).
Even then, they could have easily unlocked "extended block IDs" (4096 instead of 256) by changing a few parts of the code (basically, the game treated numerical IDs in the range of 0-255 as blocks and anything higher as items, e.g. iron shovel is 256) - as mods have done since they added the capability for the game to (mostly) handle IDs above 255 - in 1.2.1. If a mod really needs more than 4096 IDs they can just add additional data to the save data, or make block IDs a short or even int (I've internally added my own "block states" which are a block ID + metadata * 256, enabling using a single variable or method call to handle both; I'm so confident that I won't ever need more than 256 block IDs that I removed the internal support for extended IDs, eliminating the need to check if the ID is above 255 when setting a block ID or checking if the MSB array is non-null when getting it).
They also claim that they improved world generation speed in 1.13 - yet it is even slower than 1.12 for me
I'm not saying 1.13 has less lag, but what I can definitely say is that 1.13 noticeably runs faster than 1.12. If I had to guess at how much, I'd peg it at around %400 faster. The only indication that my computer is having any sort of problem keeping up is that after 3-5 minutes of play in any session item drops completely stop rendering and I can't see any items that move in or out of inventories until after I relog (all indications suggest that they are appearing, placing, and moving to where I put them just fine so it's really just that I literally don't get to see them)
It's noticeably weird (and probably the result of early-1.13 bugs that have since been fixed), because these same issues would slideshow 1.12 and earlier for me with the severest instance of such appearing when 1.10 first arrived.
I'm not saying 1.13 has less lag, but what I can definitely say is that 1.13 noticeably runs faster than 1.12. If I had to guess at how much, I'd peg it at around %400 faster. The only indication that my computer is having any sort of problem keeping up is that after 3-5 minutes of play in any session item drops completely stop rendering and I can't see any items that move in or out of inventories until after I relog (all indications suggest that they are appearing, placing, and moving to where I put them just fine so it's really just that I literally don't get to see them)
It's noticeably weird (and probably the result of early-1.13 bugs that have since been fixed), because these same issues would slideshow 1.12 and earlier for me with the severest instance of such appearing when 1.10 first arrived.
One also has to keep in mind 1.13 has way, WAY more stuff than 1.6.4 does, even if it were optimized the amount of stuff it needs to keep track of would still be way larger than in 1.6.4.
TBH as someone that has made a puzzle map (Version Guesser) fairly recently just to look over versions of the game and learning about the game's past (besides just making a map or looking at the wiki from time to time to learn something/find out the answer/or just to look back on the game for what I take for granted, that and I liked the concept so I made the map on the concept and to see what people know, what they remember and what can be a surprise I guess XD) since I only started with 1.4.5 and am still playing today and not 'tried much' of the past alphas or betas but hear a lot about it as I'm always interested in any era of the game like I am with development of other games since I just love the development aspects even besides what the player sees all the time (I have bits and pieces and I'm not afraid to look into them I just haven't as much as the release versions). I've noticed a lot of what Notch did with the stuff we do use a lot in survival like sugar cane, beds, the common mobs we know that are passive or hostile only they now have different AI compared to back then and more but it depends on the player what you interact with from maps and books, to redstone and achievements/advancements now I think. How many use achievements as a guide to play the game or just doing them once and never again? Maps are useful but modded players use minimaps (not strong I know but still a factor), Redstone is good for many things it has a community out of it but it depends on the player and what they use it for, contraptions or XP. I'm not saying either is bad, I'm just saying about common or stronger uses for features from the past and currently in recipes Vanilla or Modded here (or how I look at those features and what players use them for or what I use them for personally). But Jeb has done a lot for the game in many ways I think we wouldn't have gotten or might not have considered expansions for.
For a creativity focused game, or a game for those that like adventure & exploration, Minecraft has changed a lot for better and worse depending on what your opinions, feelings and so on are of course.
But when it came to the later updates which is mostly Jeb's focus for the game a lot has happened that I remember and know about yes due to my time with the game from 1.4.5 to now and not jumping out even after being oversaturated at times but finding new things to do with mods, maps or new updates mostly of course. I've been surprised at the differences when looking on the Minecraft wiki of Alpha and Beta or Releases before 1.4.5.
If I had to compare updates I'd say the Adventure Update Beta 1.8 and Release 1.9 were odd enough to add cool stuff, had controversy but were impactful expansions to the game no matter the opinions. The communities for Minecraft like the Building, Modding, Redstone/Commands, Adventure & Exploration all get what they want usually in each update even if they differ sometimes just for content in updates, obviously the requests will show what players want and don't get of course but still a developer or audiences vision situation is tough also and also breaking away from this thread but still something to think about.
But the exploration and blocks before with a simpler game compared to the more blocks, commands, new combat system, trading with villagers and more has added a lot to the game that we wouldn't have gotten (correct me on things I might be wrong with as I only know up to 1.2.5 of the past fairly well and I think Jeb was around then right?) While some modded players, myself included at times have gone, why no mod api, or why do the updates have this type of content? (mostly stereotyping and not accurate of all modded players). The more I've gotten away from the those that don't play the game anymore and want mods to fill in a different gap that mods only have or other's viewpoints and so on. When I take a look backwards or look at only the base game in current updates even, I've noticed a lot of what the game has, and I'd say more so after making puzzle maps to be as Vanilla as possible and focus on it's core and expanded features; I have focused on a lot I don't think about since it's so normal after it's all there to witness rather than looking back at how much we have to do, see and interaction with. Looking at the game towards limitations without those features shows how different it was a few years ago to now, theming of updates or just content for the sake of content. It's insane how big Minecraft is now!
If we continued with Notch we would have gotten an interesting game yes but to the same scope or direction as Jeb, I don't know, it's hard to tell, but both did make the game very good in so many ways. But I'd say take a long back on the times Notch was there over Jeb and vice versa with the updates and see what game we could have gotten, or other alternate situations where no updates came after 1.0, the game and it's popularity or whatever the case, it would be very different if not for updates, the ideas put forward to the adventure/exploration community, command/redstone community, map making community, mod community and it's differing ideas and expansions off core elements of the game from: different/hardcore survival starts, technology, magic, different biomes, food, tweaks, hunger removal or hunger system expansion, performance, dungeons or portals, mobs, RPG systems and so much more that mods provide.
Take a look back on the game and see what sticks out as good features to you no matter the update it comes from, you will notice what your after in the game sure but not also having nostalgia or anything else to make you hopefully not too frustrated over the game if you know the common reasons your after in the game.
I sometime disagree with the modded community internally not outward (until now) when it comes to what the players want, if you want tech and magic, that's great, but if you want that complexity or content then go for it (I love tech of course and tweaks to the game mostly but Magic has it's good points I just suck at them sometimes), but I find the base game adding something new/similar I might use or use once and normalise to mods is more my problem with playing mods sometimes. Like I'm glad we have hoppers, I'm glad we have the new Smoker and Blast Furnace, I'm glad we have a lot of things I'm familiar with that aren't 'too' out there but I can commonly use instead of installing a mod for it unless a mod specifically needs it sometimes. I enjoy both Vanilla and Mods but my creativity is average at best due to being a more 'progression' or gameplay focused player rather than a player that plays sandboxes, city builders, strategy or otherwise, they are good I just don't jump into them as much. So I make concepts for puzzle maps instead where the questions work for me and I make the rooms very colourful or towards the questions to hint to players. It's not much but I've found it works for me as a creator even if not as effective compared building a city I guess since I don't have the patience or ability to go for ideas like that but I think they are amazing builds still like everyone else, they are really something.
I have considered making a video on the features of each update of Minecraft and this thread has made me want to do that again rather than just 'considering' it.
I sometime disagree with the modded community internally not outward (until now) when it comes to what the players want, if you want tech and magic, that's great, but if you want that complexity or content then go for it (I love tech of course and tweaks to the game mostly but Magic has it's good points I just suck at them sometimes), but I find the base game adding something new/similar I might use or use once and normalise to mods is more my problem with playing mods sometimes. Like I'm glad we have hoppers, I'm glad we have the new Smoker and Blast Furnace, I'm glad we have a lot of things I'm familiar with that aren't 'too' out there but I can commonly use instead of installing a mod for it unless a mod specifically needs it sometimes. I enjoy both Vanilla and Mods but my creativity is average at best due to being a more 'progression' or gameplay focused player rather than a player that plays sandboxes, city builders, strategy or otherwise, they are good I just don't jump into them as much. So I make concepts for puzzle maps instead where the questions work for me and I make the rooms very colourful or towards the questions to hint to players. It's not much but I've found it works for me as a creator even if not as effective compared building a city I guess since I don't have the patience or ability to go for ideas like that but I think they are amazing builds still like everyone else, they are really something.
I have considered making a video on the features of each update of Minecraft and this thread has made me want to do that again rather than just 'considering' it.
It is amazing how 1 game can bring so many different people, with so many different preferred play styles, so much enjoyment. I am probably in the minority when it comes to preferred play style. I LOVE analyzing situations and building systems to improve complex problems, which is why Gregtech and Rekia's mods are some of my favorites... but they are also much hated by many, for the very same reason.
You are correct it is surprising how it can bring so many different people to it, play styles, content and enjoyment. I do like complex problems I just suck at them but I do appreciate what players can do with them, I sometimes get into doing some just not as grand of a scale and more on the core focus of the mods rather than the 'automation' or the 'computer builds of chess' or so like some can. Again not stabbing anyone, just an observation is all as a player that plays both but has had the 'mods do so much why would I want to play Vanilla' mindset until recently with 1.13/1.14 more so I guess.
With regards to complex problems, trust me, I burn out on packs like Gregtech. I play for a few days learning and setting things up, then I put it away for a few days.
with Jeb it is content update after content update after content update and really making Minecraft as creative as possible for users to limitlessly enjoy. With Notch's direction of Minecraft, users would have gotten bored way too quickly even with mods, whereas modders can adapt to Jeb's perpetual creativity of content updates making way longer lasting and funner gameplay.
Neither, in the hands of Jeb and after the selling of the game to Microsoft, the bedrock edition resulted in the microtransactions debacle.
On top of this bedrock edition doesn't have the advantage of being able to play online with an older version, at least not without mods involved AFAIK.
So console users of the game will either be forced to play the legacy console editions to avoid an unwanted and intrusive update, or go on PC and play the Java version.
With updates and things being taken out or put into the game it has been a mixed bag for me, on the one hand I enjoy the aquatic update although some respectfully disagree with me on that one, it is awesome to be able to battle drowned zombies and steal their tridents, and acquire gold ingots from time to time.
The nether update also will add something useful to the game, a more durable material for tools and amour.
But one thing I don't like is the removal of mine cart with furnaces, meaning I'm forced to farm gold ingots if I want convenient transportation. I have a friend who uploads videos on Youtube who didn't like the removal of that feature either. And the sad truth is things can be removed from the game without our wishes, if a favourite minority ask Mojang for said changes. We have no control over that as far as vanilla content of this game goes.
At least back in the days of game cartridges on retro video game consoles, we didn't have to deal with intrusive changes that ruin the game for some people, and I'm not talking about bug fixes, I'm talking about actual and previously intended content or features being removed.
But one thing I don't like is the removal of mine cart with furnaces, meaning I'm forced to farm gold ingots if I want convenient transportation. I have a friend who uploads videos on Youtube who didn't like the removal of that feature either. And the sad truth is things can be removed from the game without our wishes, if a favourite minority ask Mojang for said changes. We have no control over that as far as vanilla content of this game goes.
People actually still use minecarts with furnaces (which are still in Java as far as I can tell, unless the Wiki hasn't been updated to 1.16; for comparison, they were never added to Bedrock, only Legacy Console)? I exclusively use railways for long-distance transportation between bases, with very extensive networks, yet have never thought of making one, and as far as powered rails go, it isn't like you need that many - I use one every 33 blocks (I just split stacks of normal rails into two and place a stack, then a redstone block+powered rail, repeat), which is still closer than optimal (one every 38 blocks), plus a few extra at the ends (2 in a row to stop/hold minecarts in place, or 1 if the end is against a wall) or at curves - in fact, I've used less gold for powered rails than I've found in chests, much less mined (in my first world I've mined 72581 gold ore and crafted 8165 gold blocks and 648 powered rails; multiply the number of gold blocks by 9 and add the number of powered rails (1 ingot each) and you get 74133 gold - a surplus of at least 2552, not including some ore that was lost).
The same goes for normal rails, where I've found about 10 times what I've needed in mineshafts (about 165000), where I also take minecarts from as I need them, and otherwise have collected enough iron (65469 blocks) to make more than 1.5 million rails, and with all the iron, gold, and rails I've collected I could make a railway totaling 1.8 million blocks long, about 100 times longer than what I've built.
Yes, this is with a playstyle exclusively focused around caving but with these numbers you clearly don't have to spend much time to find enough gold; I've only used 0.874% of what I've collected, and gold is also about 20% more common since 1.8 (outside of mesa biomes; the size of all ore veins was increased in 1.8). It also helps that I build railways in increments; just recently I added another segment about 1157 blocks long, with others being similar in length (I have a total of 19 bases spread out across a 6600x6600 area).
Also, based on the amount of iron I found while building my latest extension (I place them in a 1x2 tunnel at y=58) you can reclaim about 1/4-1/3 of the iron you need (deeper down would be better as I cut through a lot of surface dirt and some water, reducing the amount of stone I ran into), and a much greater proportion of gold if you go deep enough (gold is 1/5 as common as iron below y=32; with a 1/32 ratio of powered/normal rails you need 1/12 gold/iron, so more than half the gold required can be reclaimed. Of course, not everybody places their rail systems underground).
Topic.
Notch is... not exactly a great person, and had a wildly different vision for the game. He seemed more concerned with simplicity than making a fully fleshed out game, while Jeb seems to prefer the game be as deep yet approachable as possible. Notch definitely had a lot of great ideas and talent, but he also made some pretty bad choices solely for simplicity, like the original villages. I’m also afraid that his... “interesting” views would’ve leaked into the game had he stayed around, but I don’t really wanna talk about that stuff. I just don’t think it’s right to ignore them.
Limiting the discussion to which (Persson or Bergensten) was better for MC solely in terms of game design seems appropriate… [and probably necessary to avoid flame wars
]
Within that scope, Persson seems to have been more focused on creating a sandbox in which players could play as they wished, Bergensten with providing 'things' for players to do (and rather heavy-handedly 'encouraging' that his vision not be abused by clever players utilising game mechanics to advance their prefered playstyle…)
This is complicated by the fact the Persson was (at least for a time) the sole authority on what would/would not be added whereas Bergensten has never been more than an employee (albeit a high ranking one, at least recently). [Insufficiently familiar with Swedish stock reporting requirememts to be certain, but there seems to be no evidence of Bergensten owning a meaningful percentage of stock – either before or after the MS buy-out.]
Two further complicating factors: Persson's effectively sole control also ended over a period after much/most of the basic mechanics had been establish and Bergensten's additions to MC until late 2015 occured under the [presumptive] supervision/approval by Persson.
Simply from a timeline, Persson can be assumed responsible [between the two] for content pre-November 2010 [when Bergensten was hired] and Bergensten for (at least strong input into) all content after about November 2014 (possibly with some material added shortly after that date put 'in the pipe' by Persson having been effectively unstoppable). Material added between early 2012 and late 2014 is ambiguous as Bergensten had been given a lead developemnet role, but Persson was still owner of the company [and presumably retained a veto].
This would land the divisiveness of 1.9, the continuing increases in lagginess, the misimplementation of mobs and mechanics in 1.13, and the griefing of at least two fundamental game mechanics in 1.14 clearly on Bergensten's watch. [Note that the degree to which Bergensten can veto 'executive meddling' is unknown, but presumptively far from absolute.]
To what extent Bergensten is personally to blame for the recent problems is also unclear [MS is not noted for being an arms-length corporate master], but MC does appear to have sufferd significantly during his watch.
While we do owe certain things to Notch, if he stuck around they probably wouldn't receive changes that ironed out their flaws. EX: villagers, the end, etc. I could probably go on naming stuff.
Discord: Ryzen_1600#7458
I find it very distasteful that they removed Notch due to his political standing. Labeling him as a radical conspiracy theorist. (Can look the article up). Yet I find reference to Eric Gartzke on the title screen. #gartzkebrokeit. I have the pic to back the claim. This is the 360 version by the way. Why is politics being introduced into a kids game. What place does it have. Seems a bit hypocritical to say one form isn't allowed but the other is. Shame on Microsoft. Lost a ten plus year customer. Which I am sure doesn't phase them.
The 360 version? They probably had that splash on there since like, back when it was first released. In other words, back when Mojang & 4J were relatively smaller and less prone to criticism regarding controversial splash text. They probably don't have anything like that on the more modern versions of the game.
Not to mention the fact that they've long discontinued that & pretty much all non Bedrock/Java versions of the game. EX: PS3, Wii U, etc.
Discord: Ryzen_1600#7458
It was announced that the 360 would receive a final update and would be the last. Aquatic update final. That was around December I believe. We have owned the game since it's release and never had seen it prior to the surprise update where Notch was removed from any splash text about a month ago. You can look up the article about this. After which this one appeared. We would always use the splash text at least once to see if it was a good map seed lol.
I think Jeb cares about the game more than Notch, for me that alone is enough for me to think he's better.
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ModeratorPutting aside personal feelings toward either of the two, I think it is much better under Jeb's direction than Notch's. Notch got the game started, but Jeb and Dinnerbone have made it what it is now, which is a much better game than how Notch left it. Not to mention a ton of the work they have been putting into the game fixing all the weird ways Notch programmed that were inefficient and sloppy (there is a reason that the term "notchcode" on Urban Dictionary means badly written code). They've basically had to rewrite most of the engine to get around all the limitations from what Notch created.
To sum it up: Jeb is a professional developer. Notch is an amateur who got lucky and struck gold.
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Only thing is, the new "jeb" code is MUCH more resource intensive - they always claim that they've improved performance but I never see this happen, always the opposite (across major versions, e.g. 1.12 to 1.13; any patches, e.g. 1.13.2, never completely revert the impact of major updates). Even the creator of Optifine (who has pointed out many of the issues) says that the old code was much more efficient; for example, older versions only need to allocate 1-2 MB of memory per second, around 10 times that when moving around, but 1.8+ versions allocate around 5 times that just when standing still, 10 times when moving (that is, 100 times the rate when standing still in 1.6.4 explained here, and here they describe the game as an "overengineered monster" - which it clearly is given that they've added more to the size of the game (code size and number of classes) in many single major updates since 1.8 than entire versions had before - 1.13 (5.6 MB larger than 1.12.2) most definitely did not add more new content than all of 1.7.10 (5 MB); in fact, the jar for 1.6.4 (4.5 MB) is actually smaller than 1.5.2 (5.3 MB) and 1.4.7 (4.8 MB), indicating that they actually streamlined the code between 1.5 and 1.6.
This is pretty telling:
These are the current minimum requirements:
1.6: https://web.archive.org/web/20130819173020/http://help.mojang.com/customer/portal/articles/325948-minecraft-system-requirements
Current: https://help.mojang.com/customer/en/portal/articles/325948-minecraft-java-edition-system-requirements
For comparison, this is what I had in my old computer, which had severe performance issues in 1.8 (they only worsened with later updates) on a CPU that doubled the recommended requirements for 1.6 (the single-thread rating is about the same, but the client and server run on separate threads, and 1.8 multithreaded chunk rendering so performance should be better):
When the system requirements have increased so much that the minimum CPU is 8 times better than what used to be recommended there is something very wrong; despite all the hundreds of new features that I've added to TMCW its requirements have not increased - and even decreased; I include this note in the Readme for the upcoming developmental version of TMCW, which has over 300+ features so far (and counting) but has also made many optimizations:
They also claim that they improved world generation speed in 1.13 - yet it is even slower than 1.12 for me, and around 6 times slower than vanilla 1.6.4 - and 10 times slower than my own world generator - which is more complex than 1.13's, yet about 50% faster than vanilla (much of my own code is actually not very different from the "Notch" code; for example, my 3-4x faster lighting engine (1.14 supposedly made it faster yet I still see people complaining about lag) mostly runs faster due to more efficient access to chunk data, the actual algorithm is the same as the one described as "fast" on this page; there are faster ways mentioned but many game mechanics depend on light values so light isn't just visual, as a shader would be).
Likewise, 1.13 (haven't checked 1.14 yet) takes 10 times longer to load than even my self-modded version based on 1.6.4 (I just have to love the addition of the loading bars to 1.14, which shouldn't even bee needed - I click on a world to play and it loads within a second; the launcher actually takes longer to prepare the files (for some reason it unpacks the natives every time the game is started) than the game itself takes to launch, as seen when comparing launch speed within MCP to the launcher).
Some of the "issues" that were supposedly fixed in newer versions also shouldn't have become issues so soon, such as the wasteful use of block IDs (all shulker boxes could have used a single ID, storing their color as an NBT tag in their tile entity; new types of fences could have likewise used metadata to store their variant, as I did myself - as well as Bedrock Edition. By making heavy use of metadata and visual rendered states (e.g. fences determined their visual appearance based on neighboring blocks) I've been able to add hundreds of new blocks yet have only used 1/10 as many new IDs with around 70 left; this includes code changes so metadata can control things like hardness and light level (e.g. redstone ore used two block IDs since vanilla can only define the light level for a block as a whole, while I can add such blocks using a single ID, even a block with 16 light levels). The fact that they even made previously render-only states part of the saved data has also led to numerous bugs and glitches (e.g. "snowy" grass without snow on top, which was previously determined at render time by checking for snow-based blocks above; since the game already checks the block above to determine if it should render the face this doesn't waste any time compared to reading cached data).
Even then, they could have easily unlocked "extended block IDs" (4096 instead of 256) by changing a few parts of the code (basically, the game treated numerical IDs in the range of 0-255 as blocks and anything higher as items, e.g. iron shovel is 256) - as mods have done since they added the capability for the game to (mostly) handle IDs above 255 - in 1.2.1. If a mod really needs more than 4096 IDs they can just add additional data to the save data, or make block IDs a short or even int (I've internally added my own "block states" which are a block ID + metadata * 256, enabling using a single variable or method call to handle both; I'm so confident that I won't ever need more than 256 block IDs that I removed the internal support for extended IDs, eliminating the need to check if the ID is above 255 when setting a block ID or checking if the MSB array is non-null when getting it).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I'm not saying 1.13 has less lag, but what I can definitely say is that 1.13 noticeably runs faster than 1.12. If I had to guess at how much, I'd peg it at around %400 faster. The only indication that my computer is having any sort of problem keeping up is that after 3-5 minutes of play in any session item drops completely stop rendering and I can't see any items that move in or out of inventories until after I relog (all indications suggest that they are appearing, placing, and moving to where I put them just fine so it's really just that I literally don't get to see them)
It's noticeably weird (and probably the result of early-1.13 bugs that have since been fixed), because these same issues would slideshow 1.12 and earlier for me with the severest instance of such appearing when 1.10 first arrived.
Neither. It is better off with the modded community.
One also has to keep in mind 1.13 has way, WAY more stuff than 1.6.4 does, even if it were optimized the amount of stuff it needs to keep track of would still be way larger than in 1.6.4.
*laughs in Phantom*
Defender of the 1.14 Textures/Bedrock Edition
TBH as someone that has made a puzzle map (Version Guesser) fairly recently just to look over versions of the game and learning about the game's past (besides just making a map or looking at the wiki from time to time to learn something/find out the answer/or just to look back on the game for what I take for granted, that and I liked the concept so I made the map on the concept and to see what people know, what they remember and what can be a surprise I guess XD) since I only started with 1.4.5 and am still playing today and not 'tried much' of the past alphas or betas but hear a lot about it as I'm always interested in any era of the game like I am with development of other games since I just love the development aspects even besides what the player sees all the time (I have bits and pieces and I'm not afraid to look into them I just haven't as much as the release versions). I've noticed a lot of what Notch did with the stuff we do use a lot in survival like sugar cane, beds, the common mobs we know that are passive or hostile only they now have different AI compared to back then and more but it depends on the player what you interact with from maps and books, to redstone and achievements/advancements now I think. How many use achievements as a guide to play the game or just doing them once and never again? Maps are useful but modded players use minimaps (not strong I know but still a factor), Redstone is good for many things it has a community out of it but it depends on the player and what they use it for, contraptions or XP. I'm not saying either is bad, I'm just saying about common or stronger uses for features from the past and currently in recipes Vanilla or Modded here (or how I look at those features and what players use them for or what I use them for personally). But Jeb has done a lot for the game in many ways I think we wouldn't have gotten or might not have considered expansions for.
For a creativity focused game, or a game for those that like adventure & exploration, Minecraft has changed a lot for better and worse depending on what your opinions, feelings and so on are of course.
But when it came to the later updates which is mostly Jeb's focus for the game a lot has happened that I remember and know about yes due to my time with the game from 1.4.5 to now and not jumping out even after being oversaturated at times but finding new things to do with mods, maps or new updates mostly of course. I've been surprised at the differences when looking on the Minecraft wiki of Alpha and Beta or Releases before 1.4.5.
If I had to compare updates I'd say the Adventure Update Beta 1.8 and Release 1.9 were odd enough to add cool stuff, had controversy but were impactful expansions to the game no matter the opinions. The communities for Minecraft like the Building, Modding, Redstone/Commands, Adventure & Exploration all get what they want usually in each update even if they differ sometimes just for content in updates, obviously the requests will show what players want and don't get of course but still a developer or audiences vision situation is tough also and also breaking away from this thread but still something to think about.
But the exploration and blocks before with a simpler game compared to the more blocks, commands, new combat system, trading with villagers and more has added a lot to the game that we wouldn't have gotten (correct me on things I might be wrong with as I only know up to 1.2.5 of the past fairly well and I think Jeb was around then right?) While some modded players, myself included at times have gone, why no mod api, or why do the updates have this type of content? (mostly stereotyping and not accurate of all modded players). The more I've gotten away from the those that don't play the game anymore and want mods to fill in a different gap that mods only have or other's viewpoints and so on. When I take a look backwards or look at only the base game in current updates even, I've noticed a lot of what the game has, and I'd say more so after making puzzle maps to be as Vanilla as possible and focus on it's core and expanded features; I have focused on a lot I don't think about since it's so normal after it's all there to witness rather than looking back at how much we have to do, see and interaction with. Looking at the game towards limitations without those features shows how different it was a few years ago to now, theming of updates or just content for the sake of content. It's insane how big Minecraft is now!
If we continued with Notch we would have gotten an interesting game yes but to the same scope or direction as Jeb, I don't know, it's hard to tell, but both did make the game very good in so many ways. But I'd say take a long back on the times Notch was there over Jeb and vice versa with the updates and see what game we could have gotten, or other alternate situations where no updates came after 1.0, the game and it's popularity or whatever the case, it would be very different if not for updates, the ideas put forward to the adventure/exploration community, command/redstone community, map making community, mod community and it's differing ideas and expansions off core elements of the game from: different/hardcore survival starts, technology, magic, different biomes, food, tweaks, hunger removal or hunger system expansion, performance, dungeons or portals, mobs, RPG systems and so much more that mods provide.
Take a look back on the game and see what sticks out as good features to you no matter the update it comes from, you will notice what your after in the game sure but not also having nostalgia or anything else to make you hopefully not too frustrated over the game if you know the common reasons your after in the game.
I sometime disagree with the modded community internally not outward (until now) when it comes to what the players want, if you want tech and magic, that's great, but if you want that complexity or content then go for it (I love tech of course and tweaks to the game mostly but Magic has it's good points I just suck at them sometimes), but I find the base game adding something new/similar I might use or use once and normalise to mods is more my problem with playing mods sometimes. Like I'm glad we have hoppers, I'm glad we have the new Smoker and Blast Furnace, I'm glad we have a lot of things I'm familiar with that aren't 'too' out there but I can commonly use instead of installing a mod for it unless a mod specifically needs it sometimes. I enjoy both Vanilla and Mods but my creativity is average at best due to being a more 'progression' or gameplay focused player rather than a player that plays sandboxes, city builders, strategy or otherwise, they are good I just don't jump into them as much. So I make concepts for puzzle maps instead where the questions work for me and I make the rooms very colourful or towards the questions to hint to players. It's not much but I've found it works for me as a creator even if not as effective compared building a city I guess since I don't have the patience or ability to go for ideas like that but I think they are amazing builds still like everyone else, they are really something.
I have considered making a video on the features of each update of Minecraft and this thread has made me want to do that again rather than just 'considering' it.
Niche Community Content Finder, Youtuber, Modpack/Map Maker, Duck
Forum Thread Maintainer for APortingCore, Liteloader Download HUB, Asphodel Meadows, Fabric Project, Legacy Fabric/Cursed Fabric, Power API, Rift/Fabric/Forge 1.13 to 1.17.
Wikis I Maintain: https://modwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/User:SuntannedDuck2
It is amazing how 1 game can bring so many different people, with so many different preferred play styles, so much enjoyment. I am probably in the minority when it comes to preferred play style. I LOVE analyzing situations and building systems to improve complex problems, which is why Gregtech and Rekia's mods are some of my favorites... but they are also much hated by many, for the very same reason.
@Equilor9
You are correct it is surprising how it can bring so many different people to it, play styles, content and enjoyment.
I do like complex problems I just suck at them but I do appreciate what players can do with them, I sometimes get into doing some just not as grand of a scale and more on the core focus of the mods rather than the 'automation' or the 'computer builds of chess' or so like some can. Again not stabbing anyone, just an observation is all as a player that plays both but has had the 'mods do so much why would I want to play Vanilla' mindset until recently with 1.13/1.14 more so I guess.
Niche Community Content Finder, Youtuber, Modpack/Map Maker, Duck
Forum Thread Maintainer for APortingCore, Liteloader Download HUB, Asphodel Meadows, Fabric Project, Legacy Fabric/Cursed Fabric, Power API, Rift/Fabric/Forge 1.13 to 1.17.
Wikis I Maintain: https://modwiki.miraheze.org/wiki/User:SuntannedDuck2
No offense was taken brother.
With regards to complex problems, trust me, I burn out on packs like Gregtech. I play for a few days learning and setting things up, then I put it away for a few days.
with Jeb it is content update after content update after content update and really making Minecraft as creative as possible for users to limitlessly enjoy. With Notch's direction of Minecraft, users would have gotten bored way too quickly even with mods, whereas modders can adapt to Jeb's perpetual creativity of content updates making way longer lasting and funner gameplay.
Neither, in the hands of Jeb and after the selling of the game to Microsoft, the bedrock edition resulted in the microtransactions debacle.
On top of this bedrock edition doesn't have the advantage of being able to play online with an older version, at least not without mods involved AFAIK.
So console users of the game will either be forced to play the legacy console editions to avoid an unwanted and intrusive update, or go on PC and play the Java version.
With updates and things being taken out or put into the game it has been a mixed bag for me, on the one hand I enjoy the aquatic update although some respectfully disagree with me on that one, it is awesome to be able to battle drowned zombies and steal their tridents, and acquire gold ingots from time to time.
The nether update also will add something useful to the game, a more durable material for tools and amour.
But one thing I don't like is the removal of mine cart with furnaces, meaning I'm forced to farm gold ingots if I want convenient transportation. I have a friend who uploads videos on Youtube who didn't like the removal of that feature either. And the sad truth is things can be removed from the game without our wishes, if a favourite minority ask Mojang for said changes. We have no control over that as far as vanilla content of this game goes.
At least back in the days of game cartridges on retro video game consoles, we didn't have to deal with intrusive changes that ruin the game for some people, and I'm not talking about bug fixes, I'm talking about actual and previously intended content or features being removed.
People actually still use minecarts with furnaces (which are still in Java as far as I can tell, unless the Wiki hasn't been updated to 1.16; for comparison, they were never added to Bedrock, only Legacy Console)? I exclusively use railways for long-distance transportation between bases, with very extensive networks, yet have never thought of making one, and as far as powered rails go, it isn't like you need that many - I use one every 33 blocks (I just split stacks of normal rails into two and place a stack, then a redstone block+powered rail, repeat), which is still closer than optimal (one every 38 blocks), plus a few extra at the ends (2 in a row to stop/hold minecarts in place, or 1 if the end is against a wall) or at curves - in fact, I've used less gold for powered rails than I've found in chests, much less mined (in my first world I've mined 72581 gold ore and crafted 8165 gold blocks and 648 powered rails; multiply the number of gold blocks by 9 and add the number of powered rails (1 ingot each) and you get 74133 gold - a surplus of at least 2552, not including some ore that was lost).
The same goes for normal rails, where I've found about 10 times what I've needed in mineshafts (about 165000), where I also take minecarts from as I need them, and otherwise have collected enough iron (65469 blocks) to make more than 1.5 million rails, and with all the iron, gold, and rails I've collected I could make a railway totaling 1.8 million blocks long, about 100 times longer than what I've built.
Yes, this is with a playstyle exclusively focused around caving but with these numbers you clearly don't have to spend much time to find enough gold; I've only used 0.874% of what I've collected, and gold is also about 20% more common since 1.8 (outside of mesa biomes; the size of all ore veins was increased in 1.8). It also helps that I build railways in increments; just recently I added another segment about 1157 blocks long, with others being similar in length (I have a total of 19 bases spread out across a 6600x6600 area).
Also, based on the amount of iron I found while building my latest extension (I place them in a 1x2 tunnel at y=58) you can reclaim about 1/4-1/3 of the iron you need (deeper down would be better as I cut through a lot of surface dirt and some water, reducing the amount of stone I ran into), and a much greater proportion of gold if you go deep enough (gold is 1/5 as common as iron below y=32; with a 1/32 ratio of powered/normal rails you need 1/12 gold/iron, so more than half the gold required can be reclaimed. Of course, not everybody places their rail systems underground).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?