Day after day, the Minecraft community ceaselessly thinks up new concepts and suggestions for the game we all know and love. Some of these are amazing, with so much effort and wonderful ideas put into them that you're salivating at the concept of actually playing them.
But there's one problem: Mojang doesn't read suggestions around here, and for that matter hardly ever implements a community suggestion outside of minor features or tweaks. So many great concepts end up dying, forgotten by the community after an initial burst of activity, relegated to perhaps a link in someone's signature.
I say: that shouldn't be. If our best ideas won't come to life through official hands, then it's up to us to make it happen.
Welcome to the Community Revamp.
The Executive Summary
The Minecraft Community Revamp is exactly what it sounds like: a community mod project in which we bring the greatest community suggestions to life, as well as a mix of our own ideas and concepts, to produce a "vanilla+" experience unlike any other.
Join Us!
We'd like to draw in the people creating our suggestions to a place we can discuss and collaborate further. Here is a link to our Discord server.
My suggestion would be to run Spigot and select mods that suit your server's style and tastes. Which is pretty much what I plan to do. Data-packs also help with this, since while we are in Snapshot/ Pre-release I can ONLY use data-packs. There is even a data-pack for 1.8 style combat that works for 1.13.
In short, I think the time will be better spent taking suggestions to either 1) Build them using data-packs for everyone's enjoyment and/ or 2) make those suggestions into Forge/ Craftbukkit/ Sponge/ Spigot mods. That way we can pick and choose whatever "Vanilla+" we happen to like. *I* like "Extra Hard Mode" and would like you to implement THAT mod as an option in a Vanilla+ experience. My players definitely would not, and they would reject "Extra Hard Mode". I would also like to slow down time to a one hour day/ night cycle, and so would my players. I can do that "choppy" in a 1.13 data-pack or "smoothly" in a Craftbukkit mod. One-Player-Sleeping is a common SMP request. There's a data-pack out for that one too that even lets you pick what percentage "votes" on flipping it to morning.
So... yeah, it's a good enough idea to re-invent FTB in a more Vanilla+ style, but think Data-packs are the way to go, or plug-ins where necessary. But hey, good luck with your project.
My suggestion would be to run Spigot and select mods that suit your server's style and tastes. Which is pretty much what I plan to do. Data-packs also help with this, since while we are in Snapshot/ Pre-release I can ONLY use data-packs. There is even a data-pack for 1.8 style combat that works for 1.13.
In short, I think the time will be better spent taking suggestions to either 1) Build them using data-packs for everyone's enjoyment and/ or 2) make those suggestions into Forge/ Craftbukkit/ Sponge/ Spigot mods. That way we can pick and choose whatever "Vanilla+" we happen to like. *I* like "Extra Hard Mode", but my player base seriously DOES NOT WANT. *I* would like you to implement THAT mod as an option in a Vanilla+ experience. My players definitely would not. I would also like to slow down time to a one hour day/ night cycle, and so would my players. I can do that "choppy" in a 1.13 data-pack or "smoothly" in a Craftbukkit mod. One-Player-Sleeping is a common SMP request. There's a data-pack out for that one too that even lets you pick what percentage "votes" on flipping it to morning.
So... yeah, it's a good enough idea to re-invent FTB in a more Vanilla+ style, but think Data-packs are the way to go, or plug-ins where necessary. But hey, good luck with your project.
Wow, good job me for forgetting to mention a rather important aspect of the project: modularity.
While working in the MCAbnormals Discord we'd hit upon the fact that you can't, in fact, please everyone with one universal mod. So we decided to split the Community Revamp experience into a "core" mod (containing the necessary technicalities) and "packs" with individual content (e.g. for villages, terrain, combat, etc.) to allow people to pick and choose what they want, as well as make it easy to make pack variants for that extra customization.
While datapacks and plugins are a serviceable option, they're sometimes rough around the edges or clearly making do with what they can in the span of Minecraft's vanilla limits. A full mod allows for deeper customization.
So.... Spigot with a pre-packaged group of already existing mods to enhance the "Vanilla" experience? FTB only more "Vanilla-ish"?
Data-packs seem to be pretty modular and do many things very, very well without any "mods" to Vanilla. Or in cases where commands are not enough, Bukkit and Spigot Plugins do the job very well. So you are ... what, reinventing Spigot plus adding some mods to it? Reinventing Sponge? Or just pre-packaging Spigot and Craft Bukkit plugins? It would seem to be a great deal easier to take already existing plugins and mods that already have support and general use in the community rather than re-inventing Spigot, Forge, LiteLoader and so on.
I'd like to obtain the floor and put forth a motion officially adding the following proposed suggestions to the project:
Aether and New Nether (GerbilCrab475)
Ant Dungeons! Found in Mesa Biomes (joshosh34)
Food and Hunger Overhaul (C1ff)
Fishing Overhaul (fishg)
Faunatic Update (Skull023)
Albino Mobs (coolcat430)
Ocean Improvements parts 1-3 (Wolftopia)
Crimson Forest (GreasyTroll4)
Detailed Nether Villagers (0_Zippy)
Magmafin (Cerroz)
Hot Air Balloons (APlotdevice)
The Upper Caves (Axoladdy)
Each of these can be discussed and debated individually. After a majority vote it will be added to the curated suggestions list. You can find links to the threads in the document.
-I'm not sure there's enough connecting those two to justify keeping them as one module. Anything that involves crossing between the nether and Aether can just be built-in support like alot of mods do
-I agree
-I don't remember that one real well
-Could work, Though I'm not sure that it would play well with Modded fishing rods
-I agree
-I agree
-Maybe, The ocean did just get a huge update after all
-could be interesting
-I don't remember that one
-Don't remember
-I agree
-Definitely
-You forgot Axoladdy's Axodile
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anyone know how to change my user name?
"And just when you thought you where the sexiest one here, i show up" -Fernando
I'd like to obtain the floor and put forth a motion officially adding the following proposed suggestions to the project:
Aether and New Nether (GerbilCrab475) New dimensional expansions are a welcome thing given how threadbare non-Overworld/End areas are.
Ant Dungeons! Found in Mesa Biomes (joshosh34) This is a welcome expansion and a good start on adding new dungeons and structures to more biomes.
Food and Hunger Overhaul (C1ff) No reason not to.
Fishing Overhaul (fishg) As with Food and Hunger, no reason not to.
Faunatic Update (Skull023) More variety, when executed well (such as this), is always welcome.
Albino Mobs (coolcat430) Seems a bit superfluous but things such as Pokemon's shinies have been interesting and welcome parts of their parent games, so I'm willing to see how it turns out.
Ocean Improvements parts 1-3 (Wolftopia) No reason not to.
Crimson Forest (GreasyTroll4) An interesting new biome and a good way of introducing the Ilusioners.
Detailed Nether Villagers (0_Zippy) I would personally prefer ruins and zombie pigmen, but this is a well executed concept and brings the idea of "Nether demons" to light without overtly pointing to a religion or making them stereotypical always-chaotic-evil creatures.
Magmafin (Cerroz) Another interesting Nether mob. No reason not to.
Hot Air Balloons (APlotdevice) A useful form of transport, though I would edit them to feature a furnace and require fuel to travel.
The Upper Caves (Axoladdy) Early-game content is certainly welcome. I support this.
Each of these can be discussed and debated individually. After a majority vote it will be added to the curated suggestions list. You can find links to the threads in the document.
Responses in bold.
Quite the expansive start. I for one support all of these, but I'm debating whether or not to create individual (temporary) polls for each of these or just a singular one to cover them given how many there are. In the meantime, I'm wiping the Concept Sheet's existing systems-in-detail content for a clean start, as it's grown a bit convoluted and complicated at this point; we'll cover that once we decide exactly what makes the cut and what doesn't. Keep in mind that you only need a few people (maybe even one or two) to curate a suggestion, but curation does not protect it from future discourse and debate, only places it on the roadmap for development instead of just consideration.
While we're on that, I'll put forth the following suggestions for discourse:
Minecraft could really do with an underground update, which has been long requested by the community - yet all we have gotten since the last real update - all the way back in Beta 1.8 - was a downgrade in release 1.7, which significantly reduced the variation in caves and made mineshafts and dungeons much rarer, plus a few minor things like the new stone types:
An underground map from a 1.6.4 world:
For comparison, this is from 1.7 or later (1.13 changed the layout of caves due to changing how the per-chunk seed is set and the values pulled from the RNG but did not actually change them):
One thing not apparent here is the frequency of mineshafts and dungeons; mineshafts were made 2.5 times less common but since in either case they are less common near the origin the difference isn't so obvious. Dungeons were made twice as rare (before accounting for other changes) in 1.7 since they doubled the y-range they and terrain can generate over despite terrain taking little advantage of it (even Amplified or Customized worlds with deeper ground have little effect since the majority of caves generate below sea level; either way, the density of dungeons for the same number of caves is half as high).
By contrast, my own mod increases the variation of caves more and adds new types of caves and cave systems as well as variations of underground structures, as well as biome-specific underground variations, mainly by replacing stone, dirt, and gravel with biome-specific blocks, such as sandstone and sand in deserts and hardened clay and normal clay in mesas:
An area of my last world with a particularly high concentration of special non-vanilla caves:
Note that mineshafts seem much more common than the vanilla examples above but vanilla 1.6.4 actually has about 50% more mineshafts than seen here when more than 1280 blocks from the origin (vanilla reduces their frequency within this area); the base chance for TMCW is about the same as vanilla 1.6.4 with about 40% of mineshafts failing to generate due to being too close to special types of caves or there being too many normal caves nearby, resulting in a frequency that is about 1.5 times that of vanilla 1.7+; they are also spaced apart so they rarely intersect one another, and only at the outer edges at that.
Here is a chart showing the special variants of caves by themselves:
Various biomes have their surface layers extending deep underground (to around y=30), with stone/dirt/gravel replaced with biome-specific blocks like sandstone and sand in deserts, with ores that match the corresponding "stone" block (NB - the ores are a new feature in an upcoming release, as are some of the other features mentioned here; not shown here are several biomes which replace all stone with the 1.8 stone variants, even down to bedrock, with pockets of normal stone instead of that variant; in my mod you need Silk Touch to harvest non-polished variants so this does not make it difficult to get normal stone/cobblestone):
Desert:
Quartz Desert:
Mesa:
Ice Plains Spikes:
Ice Hills:
Jungle; the tall grass seen here is a special variant, "Cave Grass", which can grow in the dark:
A jungle cave, which is a variant of cave which appears as an irregular cavity filled with vegetation and lined with (mossy) cobblestone and with a skylight to the surface:
Mushroom Island:
Volcanic Wasteland:
Giant mushrooms can be found in larger caves:
Also, I added more variants of mushrooms, both surface and underground, after I took the screenshots shown above:
Mineshafts use different types of wood based on the biome they start in:
Dungeons may generate with blocks other than cobblestone for their walls; spawners can also spawn most Overworld mobs, even creepers (spawners are blast-proof) and spawn mobs much faster (probably too much for 1.9's combat but my mod lets you strike multiple mobs as fast as you can as long as they are not damage-immune or you don't miss):
There is also a larger variant which has 2 spawners and 2-3 chests and chiseled stone bricks in place of cobblestone in the floor (aside from jungle temples this is the only way to obtain it in my mod, as was the case prior to 1.8; I did not add crafting recipes for either moss stone or chiseled stone bricks):
Also, the amount and vein size of various non-ore blocks (granite, dirt, gravel, sand, etc) vary on a regional scale:
There are also other changes that enhance caving and general gameplay, such as making a light level of 0 actually dark and preventing the user from setting gamma outside the range of 0-1 in options.txt and increasing the spawn rate of and variety of mobs spawned by mob spawners and making them continue counting down when the player is more than 16 blocks away (they count down to a minimum delay of 20 ticks, the same as a newly generated spawner so they spawn mobs with 1 second of coming within range.
To offset the increased spawn rates I added a "cooldown" variable to spawners which temporarily disables XP and item drops if they spawn too many mobs within too short of a time, making them less useful for mob farms; mobs in general also (de)spawn within 96 instead of 128 blocks for an increased density (this also allows the view distance to be as low as 8 without affecting mob spawning; vanilla 1.6.4 does not change it from 10 in singleplayer and the chunk update radius is fixed at 7 regardless of render/view distance), and the despawn radius does not include the y-axis (i.e. a cylinder instead of sphere) so you have to light up all caves and the surface for a darkroom spawner to work well).
Regional difficulty was removed in favor of a system which is only dependent on the total time spent in a world, taking 100 hours (75 on Hard) to reach a constant maximum and easily editable by editing the total world time in level.dat (versions prior to 1.6 did not have regional difficulty so behaved the as if regional difficulty was always maxed-out), and the chances of effects are increased and scale up better with difficulty (e.g. chance of zombies having weapons, which is 1% in vanilla on Easy-Normal and 5% on Hard vs 5-10-15% in TMCW. Yes, that is right, the chance on Easy is as high as Hard in vanilla, which is still only 1 in 20 zombies, and only after 100 hours have passed as it is based on the playtime factor), as well as Hard-only effects occurring on any difficulty (except for zombies breaking doors; zombie sieges, which were broken anyway before 1.8, were also removed from the game so the game doesn't waste time ticking broken code).
Aside from that, my mod also adds many new biomes, with a total of 106 in the Overworld (the only dimension my mod affects) and instead of climate zones which only have a few different common biomes they only exclude the opposite extreme, with most of the world having nearly any biome, much as 1.6.4 had, for a great amount of biome variety; my last world had 31 unique biomes, excluding variations like hills and edge biomes and rivers, within about one level 4 map:
One thing I forgot to mention which would go well with my previous post - the customized world type should have far more options for customizing things like caves and structures, as in changing how common/large they are, as I suggested here (NB: my last post is not based on a suggestion but an actual mod, which is linked to in my signature).
Also, I actually made a mod which added more options, though I never finished it because it would not work outside of MCP for some reason (this in part put me off from making mods for newer versions):
Note the options for cave lava level and flat bedrock (TMCW lowers lava level to y=4 and makes bedrock one layer to get 13% more explorable space underground without affecting terrain):
Emerald ore should be customizable, and able to generate in any biome if so desired (unlike other ores there is no vein size; alternatively, a simple change to the ore generator could have it place single blocks if the size is set to 1, which currently does nothing as no ore is placed for sizes 1-2):
Yes, this is a bit overkill, but the underground is a major part of the game; the features from TMCW would add even more options so you could adjust the size/frequency of the largest variants of caves/ravines (generated separately from normal caves) and the frequencies of other cave variants:
Did you know that most of these settings are available in Superflat (since 2012!) yet for some reason Mojang never thought to add them to Customized - they even added an option for ocean monuments in 1.8, the same version Customized was added! I also added the ability to change the size of mineshafts as well as whether or not they are less common near the origin (another setting specific to TMCW would be a cave density threshold which excludes them from areas of higher cave density; their actual chance would be displayed after running a check on how many actually generated, which can quickly be done without generating a world):
The stronghold settings would be different for TMCW as it generates an infinite number of strongholds using a different algorithm; "overwrite air/liquids" can be enabled to allow them to generate underwater and have walls when in midair/inside of caves (currently only the portal room is exempt from these):
There would also be more presets specifically designed with caving in mind (real caves, not bizarre surface terrain); actually, with TMCW the "Caver's Dream" preset would be the normal world generation:
Fantastic. I myself have always hated how villages and whatnot are very rare. I'll like to see this go into the core mod (being strictly customization options and not adding any new content itself).
Weaponized Rockets seems nice to cause some havoc, and I particularly adore the New Uses and Tweaks suggestions.
I'll put my solid support for both of these.
As for some links (and in the future, please link things you suggest!), have the list of uncurated suggestions (those awaiting discourse and decision):
Let's try and run down this list. We can start with Aether and New Nether.
The Aether Staff and Nether Cannon seem superfluous. I'd replace them with more general-purpose items (wands, block-based launchers, etc.)
The Aether shouldn't be reached by a portal. Instead, I think you should find it by reaching the highest Y level, and falling off would just position you right back into the top of the Overworld. This could be accomplished by using a TNT cannon on yourself, propelling a Hot Air Balloon with firework rockets, or
The Balloon's role would be eclipsed by the Hot Air Balloon by APlotdevice and so should be removed.
The Permafrost Crystal honestly feels like something out of the Frist rather than an Aether object. I don't see how it fits.
Mushraves could be good potion ingredients but suck to consume. It's strange that they'd apply a debuff to you simply by being around them, unless you had a little animation in which they exuded particles or something.
Fantastic. I myself have always hated how villages and whatnot are very rare. I'll like to see this go into the core mod (being strictly customization options and not adding any new content itself).
Any objections?
What is wrong with adding more underground variation? The game is called Minecraft (and originally, Cave Game), and the caves aren't really different from vanilla, just different shapes and sizes of what already exists, with some additional vanilla-based decoration (I even have the ore variants drop normal stone-based blocks unless Silk Touch is used).
I'll even freely give out the source; in fact, here is the cave generation code for the latest developmental version (note - not fully tested; I removed some irrelevant debug code):
Changes are needed to update it to newer versions (mainly, how the chunk data array is accessed; 1.8 encapsulated it in ChunkPrimer (IMO a bad idea as it adds overhead to what needs to be fast code); the chunkData array that I use represents an 8 bit block ID plus 4 metadata bits) and it includes references to mod biomes (some have vanilla equivalents, or you can add your own), as well as a custom random number generator (included as replacing it with Random is possible but I added custom methods), and other custom classes (it checks for strongholds to avoid generating big caves on top of them, as well as mineshafts when determining whether to generates a type of cave which generates in otherwise empty areas).
What is wrong with adding more underground variation? The game is called Minecraft (and originally, Cave Game), and the caves aren't really different from vanilla, just different shapes and sizes of what already exists, with some additional vanilla-based decoration (I even have the ore variants drop normal stone-based blocks unless Silk Touch is used).
I'll even freely give out the source; in fact, here is the cave generation code for the latest developmental version (note - not fully tested; I removed some irrelevant debug code):
Changes are needed to update it to newer versions (mainly, how the chunk data array is accessed; 1.8 encapsulated it in ChunkPrimer (IMO a bad idea as it adds overhead to what needs to be fast code); the chunkData array that I use represents an 8 bit block ID plus 4 metadata bits) and it includes references to mod biomes (some have vanilla equivalents, or you can add your own), as well as a custom random number generator (included as replacing it with Random is possible but I added custom methods), and other custom classes (it checks for strongholds to avoid generating big caves on top of them, as well as mineshafts when determining whether to generates a type of cave which generates in otherwise empty areas).
My mistake. Though the cave-generation improvements would likely find their way into a terrain-modification pack, not the core mod (which itself is just supposed to be necessary technicalities, not massive amounts of new content itself)
I'd like to obtain the floor and put forth a motion officially adding the following proposed suggestions to the project:
Aether and New Nether (GerbilCrab475)
Ant Dungeons! Found in Mesa Biomes (joshosh34)
Food and Hunger Overhaul (C1ff)
Fishing Overhaul (fishg)
Faunatic Update (Skull023)
Albino Mobs (coolcat430)
Ocean Improvements parts 1-3 (Wolftopia)
Crimson Forest (GreasyTroll4)
Detailed Nether Villagers (0_Zippy)
Magmafin (Cerroz)
Hot Air Balloons (APlotdevice)
The Upper Caves (Axoladdy)
Each of these can be discussed and debated individually. After a majority vote it will be added to the curated suggestions list. You can find links to the threads in the document.
I agree with this list, and thanks for mentioning Ocean Improvements!
Axoladdy definitely has some legendary suggestions, but I think we should ask him if we can....rename the mobs. They are all Axo-something, and that might get confusing when some of them aren't related at all but have the same prefix.
Something else worth taking a look at is the quark mod. It has some interesting ideas that are vanilla-ish.
These all seem to be good suggestions to me, especially the Ancient Zombie and music tweaks. I've gone ahead and added them to the Concept Sheet's uncurated list.
The Lava Kraken seems a little rough around the edges, but that's to be expected for such a vast mob; perhaps a smaller "mantle" and taller tentacles would improve the look? Apart from that it seems supremely interesting, scary, and far superior to the Nether Wurm as a "boss" in Aether and New Nether (though that's no reason to remove it).
Quark is quite the nice modset but it's mostly centered around tiny improvements (as its name might suggest). Even still, stuff like placeable gunpowder is amazing and Community Revamp can really take notes from it.
Villager heredity... well, I can't say I'm hugely interested in the idea of giving Villagers races and hair (seems like a mess of code, plus makes the Illagers by extension look stranger), but the point of it being difficult to differentiate villagers within the same career stands. Perhaps unique dress for each individual profession, with the color remaining the same across the career?
Music tweaks for one heavily interest me. I've always wanted chill C418-style themes for specific biomes and events rather than generic themes playing at random. Minecraftified versions of things like this for storming a Woodland Mansion and whatnot.
Villager heredity... well, I can't say I'm hugely interested in the idea of giving Villagers races and hair (seems like a mess of code, plus makes the Illagers by extension look stranger), but the point of it being difficult to differentiate villagers within the same career stands.
I don't think it would be that much of a mess of code; after all, it's pretty much just a copy of the system that we already have with horses, just simpler.
I think the most difficult thing to implement is moveable player-built ships, but I've already (for the most part) planned out how it is going to work on the technical side of things, and we can always contact one of the developers for Archimedes Ships.
I know I'm thinking very ahead here, but who are going to be the developers for this mod? TheMasterCaver has a lot of modding experience, so maybe he would be willing to be one of the devs. I also have programming experience (though not as much Minecraft modding experience as TheMasterCaver) so I would be willing to work on the programming aspect of this project.
Another thing to consider is for what version we plan to release this mod. Will it be for 1.13, or will we make it for 1.14 or 1.15?
I don't think it would be that much of a mess of code; after all, it's pretty much just a copy of the system that we already have with horses, just simpler.
I think the most difficult thing to implement is moveable player-built ships, but I've already (for the most part) planned out how it is going to work on the technical side of things, and we can always contact one of the developers for Archimedes Ships.
I know I'm thinking very ahead here, but who are going to be the developers for this mod? TheMasterCaver has a lot of modding experience, so maybe he would be willing to be one of the devs. I also have programming experience (though not as much Minecraft modding experience as TheMasterCaver) so I would be willing to work on the programming aspect of this project.
Another thing to consider is for what version we plan to release this mod. Will it be for 1.13, or will we make it for 1.14 or 1.15?
In that case, it seems doable. Reviving an old idea of fishg from the Update Civilis thread, perhaps Villagers' skin tone and hair could depend on biome (savannah villagers would be dark-skinned, desert tan-skinned, plains/mountain light, etc).
I feel that the exact specifics of content will take some time- things like consolidating similar features, tweaking suggestions to make use of one another (I can think of Ocean Improvements' pirates and my own Muskets going together quite well, for one), and whatnot isn't an instantaneous process. Realistically we can expect to wait for 1.13 and community modding tools until that's finished, then begin development. If 1.13 takes a horrific length of time we can start with 1.12.2, but I don't think it's long till release now.
A proper modding team (volunteers? paid? it's worth figuring out after we get the exact mod specifics finished) would need to be assembled before work actually begins. I've tried to start modding a few times and my computer's a wasteland of leftover Gradle files and editing environments by now, but it may work with one more attempt once 1.13 drops.
Well, this seems interesting. Considering how much Minecraft owes its popularity to its fans, I'm always impressed with community-run projects like this.
As for what has been discussed, I'm on board with most of it, except for the Aether. I've played, and loved, the Aether mod, but I've always been bugged by the fact that it's largely just "the Overworld in the Sky." Sure, some Aether suggestions are better than others, and GerbilCrab475's is one of the best versions, but I feel a new dimension should be something more unique, like the Frist. I also feel that Upper Caves would need to be tweaked, as I think it unnecessarily slows down gameplay, but I'd be fine either way.
Since you were discussing the underground, I'd like to mention my Biome-Specific Caves suggestion. It's mostly a cosmetic thing that doesn't add too many new blocks, but I think some more underground variety would go a long way.
Well, this seems interesting. Considering how much Minecraft owes its popularity to its fans, I'm always impressed with community-run projects like this.
As for what has been discussed, I'm on board with most of it, except for the Aether. I've played, and loved, the Aether mod, but I've always been bugged by the fact that it's largely just "the Overworld in the Sky." Sure, some Aether suggestions are better than others, and GerbilCrab475's is one of the best versions, but I feel a new dimension should be something more unique, like the Frist. I also feel that Upper Caves would need to be tweaked, as I think it unnecessarily slows down gameplay, but I'd be fine either way.
Since you were discussing the underground, I'd like to mention my Biome-Specific Caves suggestion. It's mostly a cosmetic thing that doesn't add too many new blocks, but I think some more underground variety would go a long way.
I approve of Biome-Specific Caves; it feels like a simple and effective way of making the underground feel more varied.
The Aether could be deleted if people feel it's totally unnecessary, but some features (e.g. Prism Glass and Floatsand) are quite interesting to me at least. The "floating islands" emphasis could be worked on more heavily; since Cubic Chunks is a suggestion on the concept sheet, perhaps the entirety of the Aether could in fact be part of the Overworld, simply generating at a very high Y. (though personally I prefer the idea of teleporting to it once you reach max Y level).
On that note. Should we work with Cubic Chunks or not? The performance increase seems to be the only major draw given that most players won't make significant use of infinite height, and it may or may not be buggy and difficult to work with.
I approve of Biome-Specific Caves; it feels like a simple and effective way of making the underground feel more varied.
Thank you.
The Aether could be deleted if people feel it's totally unnecessary, but some features (e.g. Prism Glass and Floatsand) are quite interesting to me at least. The "floating islands" emphasis could be worked on more heavily; since Cubic Chunks is a suggestion on the concept sheet, perhaps the entirety of the Aether could in fact be part of the Overworld, simply generating at a very high Y. (though personally I prefer the idea of teleporting to it once you reach max Y level).
On that note. Should we work with Cubic Chunks or not? The performance increase seems to be the only major draw given that most players won't make significant use of infinite height, and it may or may not be buggy and difficult to work with.
While I'm definitely a fan of Cubic Chunks, its practicality is certainly something that needs to be discussed. There was a Cubic Chunks mod, but it was difficult to make and when it was made, seemed more like a proof of concept rather than something you were actually meant to play with. I do want it, but good luck getting it to work. It's going to take a while.
Well, this seems interesting. Considering how much Minecraft owes its popularity to its fans, I'm always impressed with community-run projects like this.
As for what has been discussed, I'm on board with most of it, except for the Aether. I've played, and loved, the Aether mod, but I've always been bugged by the fact that it's largely just "the Overworld in the Sky." Sure, some Aether suggestions are better than others, and GerbilCrab475's is one of the best versions, but I feel a new dimension should be something more unique, like the Frist. I also feel that Upper Caves would need to be tweaked, as I think it unnecessarily slows down gameplay, but I'd be fine either way.
Since you were discussing the underground, I'd like to mention my Biome-Specific Caves suggestion. It's mostly a cosmetic thing that doesn't add too many new blocks, but I think some more underground variety would go a long way.
I'm fine either way with the Aether. I won't mind if we have it in, but I won't be heart broken if we don't.
Your Biome-Specific Caves suggestion will definitely fit well in this project. I think the Redstone Delayer that you've suggested would also work well with this mod.
Join Us!
We'd like to draw in the people creating our suggestions to a place we can discuss and collaborate further. Here is a link to our Discord server.
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
My suggestion would be to run Spigot and select mods that suit your server's style and tastes. Which is pretty much what I plan to do. Data-packs also help with this, since while we are in Snapshot/ Pre-release I can ONLY use data-packs. There is even a data-pack for 1.8 style combat that works for 1.13.
In short, I think the time will be better spent taking suggestions to either 1) Build them using data-packs for everyone's enjoyment and/ or 2) make those suggestions into Forge/ Craftbukkit/ Sponge/ Spigot mods. That way we can pick and choose whatever "Vanilla+" we happen to like. *I* like "Extra Hard Mode" and would like you to implement THAT mod as an option in a Vanilla+ experience. My players definitely would not, and they would reject "Extra Hard Mode". I would also like to slow down time to a one hour day/ night cycle, and so would my players. I can do that "choppy" in a 1.13 data-pack or "smoothly" in a Craftbukkit mod. One-Player-Sleeping is a common SMP request. There's a data-pack out for that one too that even lets you pick what percentage "votes" on flipping it to morning.
So... yeah, it's a good enough idea to re-invent FTB in a more Vanilla+ style, but think Data-packs are the way to go, or plug-ins where necessary. But hey, good luck with your project.
EDIT: Minor tweaking of a sentence
Wow, good job me for forgetting to mention a rather important aspect of the project: modularity.
While working in the MCAbnormals Discord we'd hit upon the fact that you can't, in fact, please everyone with one universal mod. So we decided to split the Community Revamp experience into a "core" mod (containing the necessary technicalities) and "packs" with individual content (e.g. for villages, terrain, combat, etc.) to allow people to pick and choose what they want, as well as make it easy to make pack variants for that extra customization.
While datapacks and plugins are a serviceable option, they're sometimes rough around the edges or clearly making do with what they can in the span of Minecraft's vanilla limits. A full mod allows for deeper customization.
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
So.... Spigot with a pre-packaged group of already existing mods to enhance the "Vanilla" experience? FTB only more "Vanilla-ish"?
Data-packs seem to be pretty modular and do many things very, very well without any "mods" to Vanilla. Or in cases where commands are not enough, Bukkit and Spigot Plugins do the job very well. So you are ... what, reinventing Spigot plus adding some mods to it? Reinventing Sponge? Or just pre-packaging Spigot and Craft Bukkit plugins? It would seem to be a great deal easier to take already existing plugins and mods that already have support and general use in the community rather than re-inventing Spigot, Forge, LiteLoader and so on.
I'd like to obtain the floor and put forth a motion officially adding the following proposed suggestions to the project:
Each of these can be discussed and debated individually. After a majority vote it will be added to the curated suggestions list. You can find links to the threads in the document.
Alright, To address those in order
-I'm not sure there's enough connecting those two to justify keeping them as one module. Anything that involves crossing between the nether and Aether can just be built-in support like alot of mods do
-I agree
-I don't remember that one real well
-Could work, Though I'm not sure that it would play well with Modded fishing rods
-I agree
-I agree
-Maybe, The ocean did just get a huge update after all
-could be interesting
-I don't remember that one
-Don't remember
-I agree
-Definitely
-You forgot Axoladdy's Axodile
Anyone know how to change my user name?
"And just when you thought you where the sexiest one here, i show up" -Fernando
check out my suggestion for Yggdrasil, the great world tree
FOR THE HOLY LOVE OF ARCEUS AND HELIX COMBINED PALADINS IS NOT AN OVERWATCH CLONE. tf2's the true king anyways
-Let's make some noise
Responses in bold.
Quite the expansive start. I for one support all of these, but I'm debating whether or not to create individual (temporary) polls for each of these or just a singular one to cover them given how many there are. In the meantime, I'm wiping the Concept Sheet's existing systems-in-detail content for a clean start, as it's grown a bit convoluted and complicated at this point; we'll cover that once we decide exactly what makes the cut and what doesn't. Keep in mind that you only need a few people (maybe even one or two) to curate a suggestion, but curation does not protect it from future discourse and debate, only places it on the roadmap for development instead of just consideration.
While we're on that, I'll put forth the following suggestions for discourse:
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
For comparison, this is from 1.7 or later (1.13 changed the layout of caves due to changing how the per-chunk seed is set and the values pulled from the RNG but did not actually change them):
One thing not apparent here is the frequency of mineshafts and dungeons; mineshafts were made 2.5 times less common but since in either case they are less common near the origin the difference isn't so obvious. Dungeons were made twice as rare (before accounting for other changes) in 1.7 since they doubled the y-range they and terrain can generate over despite terrain taking little advantage of it (even Amplified or Customized worlds with deeper ground have little effect since the majority of caves generate below sea level; either way, the density of dungeons for the same number of caves is half as high).
By contrast, my own mod increases the variation of caves more and adds new types of caves and cave systems as well as variations of underground structures, as well as biome-specific underground variations, mainly by replacing stone, dirt, and gravel with biome-specific blocks, such as sandstone and sand in deserts and hardened clay and normal clay in mesas:
Note that mineshafts seem much more common than the vanilla examples above but vanilla 1.6.4 actually has about 50% more mineshafts than seen here when more than 1280 blocks from the origin (vanilla reduces their frequency within this area); the base chance for TMCW is about the same as vanilla 1.6.4 with about 40% of mineshafts failing to generate due to being too close to special types of caves or there being too many normal caves nearby, resulting in a frequency that is about 1.5 times that of vanilla 1.7+; they are also spaced apart so they rarely intersect one another, and only at the outer edges at that.
Here is a chart showing the special variants of caves by themselves:
Various biomes have their surface layers extending deep underground (to around y=30), with stone/dirt/gravel replaced with biome-specific blocks like sandstone and sand in deserts, with ores that match the corresponding "stone" block (NB - the ores are a new feature in an upcoming release, as are some of the other features mentioned here; not shown here are several biomes which replace all stone with the 1.8 stone variants, even down to bedrock, with pockets of normal stone instead of that variant; in my mod you need Silk Touch to harvest non-polished variants so this does not make it difficult to get normal stone/cobblestone):
Desert:
Quartz Desert:
Mesa:
Ice Plains Spikes:
Ice Hills:
Jungle; the tall grass seen here is a special variant, "Cave Grass", which can grow in the dark:
A jungle cave, which is a variant of cave which appears as an irregular cavity filled with vegetation and lined with (mossy) cobblestone and with a skylight to the surface:
Mushroom Island:
Volcanic Wasteland:
Giant mushrooms can be found in larger caves:
Also, I added more variants of mushrooms, both surface and underground, after I took the screenshots shown above:
Mineshafts use different types of wood based on the biome they start in:
Dungeons may generate with blocks other than cobblestone for their walls; spawners can also spawn most Overworld mobs, even creepers (spawners are blast-proof) and spawn mobs much faster (probably too much for 1.9's combat but my mod lets you strike multiple mobs as fast as you can as long as they are not damage-immune or you don't miss):
There is also a larger variant which has 2 spawners and 2-3 chests and chiseled stone bricks in place of cobblestone in the floor (aside from jungle temples this is the only way to obtain it in my mod, as was the case prior to 1.8; I did not add crafting recipes for either moss stone or chiseled stone bricks):
Also, the amount and vein size of various non-ore blocks (granite, dirt, gravel, sand, etc) vary on a regional scale:
There are also other changes that enhance caving and general gameplay, such as making a light level of 0 actually dark and preventing the user from setting gamma outside the range of 0-1 in options.txt and increasing the spawn rate of and variety of mobs spawned by mob spawners and making them continue counting down when the player is more than 16 blocks away (they count down to a minimum delay of 20 ticks, the same as a newly generated spawner so they spawn mobs with 1 second of coming within range.
To offset the increased spawn rates I added a "cooldown" variable to spawners which temporarily disables XP and item drops if they spawn too many mobs within too short of a time, making them less useful for mob farms; mobs in general also (de)spawn within 96 instead of 128 blocks for an increased density (this also allows the view distance to be as low as 8 without affecting mob spawning; vanilla 1.6.4 does not change it from 10 in singleplayer and the chunk update radius is fixed at 7 regardless of render/view distance), and the despawn radius does not include the y-axis (i.e. a cylinder instead of sphere) so you have to light up all caves and the surface for a darkroom spawner to work well).
Regional difficulty was removed in favor of a system which is only dependent on the total time spent in a world, taking 100 hours (75 on Hard) to reach a constant maximum and easily editable by editing the total world time in level.dat (versions prior to 1.6 did not have regional difficulty so behaved the as if regional difficulty was always maxed-out), and the chances of effects are increased and scale up better with difficulty (e.g. chance of zombies having weapons, which is 1% in vanilla on Easy-Normal and 5% on Hard vs 5-10-15% in TMCW. Yes, that is right, the chance on Easy is as high as Hard in vanilla, which is still only 1 in 20 zombies, and only after 100 hours have passed as it is based on the playtime factor), as well as Hard-only effects occurring on any difficulty (except for zombies breaking doors; zombie sieges, which were broken anyway before 1.8, were also removed from the game so the game doesn't waste time ticking broken code).
Aside from that, my mod also adds many new biomes, with a total of 106 in the Overworld (the only dimension my mod affects) and instead of climate zones which only have a few different common biomes they only exclude the opposite extreme, with most of the world having nearly any biome, much as 1.6.4 had, for a great amount of biome variety; my last world had 31 unique biomes, excluding variations like hills and edge biomes and rivers, within about one level 4 map:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
One thing I forgot to mention which would go well with my previous post - the customized world type should have far more options for customizing things like caves and structures, as in changing how common/large they are, as I suggested here (NB: my last post is not based on a suggestion but an actual mod, which is linked to in my signature).
Also, I actually made a mod which added more options, though I never finished it because it would not work outside of MCP for some reason (this in part put me off from making mods for newer versions):
Emerald ore should be customizable, and able to generate in any biome if so desired (unlike other ores there is no vein size; alternatively, a simple change to the ore generator could have it place single blocks if the size is set to 1, which currently does nothing as no ore is placed for sizes 1-2):
Yes, this is a bit overkill, but the underground is a major part of the game; the features from TMCW would add even more options so you could adjust the size/frequency of the largest variants of caves/ravines (generated separately from normal caves) and the frequencies of other cave variants:
Did you know that most of these settings are available in Superflat (since 2012!) yet for some reason Mojang never thought to add them to Customized - they even added an option for ocean monuments in 1.8, the same version Customized was added! I also added the ability to change the size of mineshafts as well as whether or not they are less common near the origin (another setting specific to TMCW would be a cave density threshold which excludes them from areas of higher cave density; their actual chance would be displayed after running a check on how many actually generated, which can quickly be done without generating a world):
The stronghold settings would be different for TMCW as it generates an infinite number of strongholds using a different algorithm; "overwrite air/liquids" can be enabled to allow them to generate underwater and have walls when in midair/inside of caves (currently only the portal room is exempt from these):
There would also be more presets specifically designed with caving in mind (real caves, not bizarre surface terrain); actually, with TMCW the "Caver's Dream" preset would be the normal world generation:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Fantastic. I myself have always hated how villages and whatnot are very rare. I'll like to see this go into the core mod (being strictly customization options and not adding any new content itself).
Any objections?
Weaponized Rockets seems nice to cause some havoc, and I particularly adore the New Uses and Tweaks suggestions.
I'll put my solid support for both of these.
As for some links (and in the future, please link things you suggest!), have the list of uncurated suggestions (those awaiting discourse and decision):
Let's try and run down this list. We can start with Aether and New Nether.
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
What is wrong with adding more underground variation? The game is called Minecraft (and originally, Cave Game), and the caves aren't really different from vanilla, just different shapes and sizes of what already exists, with some additional vanilla-based decoration (I even have the ore variants drop normal stone-based blocks unless Silk Touch is used).
I'll even freely give out the source; in fact, here is the cave generation code for the latest developmental version (note - not fully tested; I removed some irrelevant debug code):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m80prnxkwyrvw6i/TMCWv5_Caves.zip?dl=0
Changes are needed to update it to newer versions (mainly, how the chunk data array is accessed; 1.8 encapsulated it in ChunkPrimer (IMO a bad idea as it adds overhead to what needs to be fast code); the chunkData array that I use represents an 8 bit block ID plus 4 metadata bits) and it includes references to mod biomes (some have vanilla equivalents, or you can add your own), as well as a custom random number generator (included as replacing it with Random is possible but I added custom methods), and other custom classes (it checks for strongholds to avoid generating big caves on top of them, as well as mineshafts when determining whether to generates a type of cave which generates in otherwise empty areas).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
My mistake. Though the cave-generation improvements would likely find their way into a terrain-modification pack, not the core mod (which itself is just supposed to be necessary technicalities, not massive amounts of new content itself)
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
This is going to be amazing! I can't express my excitement in words!
I agree with this list, and thanks for mentioning Ocean Improvements!
Axoladdy definitely has some legendary suggestions, but I think we should ask him if we can....rename the mobs. They are all Axo-something, and that might get confusing when some of them aren't related at all but have the same prefix.
This is a great list. May I add to it?
Something else worth taking a look at is the quark mod. It has some interesting ideas that are vanilla-ish.
Here is Tango Tek's video on the lava kraken. We might be able to ask him for the code if we want to implement it into this mod.
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
These all seem to be good suggestions to me, especially the Ancient Zombie and music tweaks. I've gone ahead and added them to the Concept Sheet's uncurated list.
The Lava Kraken seems a little rough around the edges, but that's to be expected for such a vast mob; perhaps a smaller "mantle" and taller tentacles would improve the look? Apart from that it seems supremely interesting, scary, and far superior to the Nether Wurm as a "boss" in Aether and New Nether (though that's no reason to remove it).
Quark is quite the nice modset but it's mostly centered around tiny improvements (as its name might suggest). Even still, stuff like placeable gunpowder is amazing and Community Revamp can really take notes from it.
Villager heredity... well, I can't say I'm hugely interested in the idea of giving Villagers races and hair (seems like a mess of code, plus makes the Illagers by extension look stranger), but the point of it being difficult to differentiate villagers within the same career stands. Perhaps unique dress for each individual profession, with the color remaining the same across the career?
Music tweaks for one heavily interest me. I've always wanted chill C418-style themes for specific biomes and events rather than generic themes playing at random. Minecraftified versions of things like this for storming a Woodland Mansion and whatnot.
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
I don't think it would be that much of a mess of code; after all, it's pretty much just a copy of the system that we already have with horses, just simpler.
I think the most difficult thing to implement is moveable player-built ships, but I've already (for the most part) planned out how it is going to work on the technical side of things, and we can always contact one of the developers for Archimedes Ships.
I know I'm thinking very ahead here, but who are going to be the developers for this mod? TheMasterCaver has a lot of modding experience, so maybe he would be willing to be one of the devs. I also have programming experience (though not as much Minecraft modding experience as TheMasterCaver) so I would be willing to work on the programming aspect of this project.
Another thing to consider is for what version we plan to release this mod. Will it be for 1.13, or will we make it for 1.14 or 1.15?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
In that case, it seems doable. Reviving an old idea of fishg from the Update Civilis thread, perhaps Villagers' skin tone and hair could depend on biome (savannah villagers would be dark-skinned, desert tan-skinned, plains/mountain light, etc).
I feel that the exact specifics of content will take some time- things like consolidating similar features, tweaking suggestions to make use of one another (I can think of Ocean Improvements' pirates and my own Muskets going together quite well, for one), and whatnot isn't an instantaneous process. Realistically we can expect to wait for 1.13 and community modding tools until that's finished, then begin development. If 1.13 takes a horrific length of time we can start with 1.12.2, but I don't think it's long till release now.
A proper modding team (volunteers? paid? it's worth figuring out after we get the exact mod specifics finished) would need to be assembled before work actually begins. I've tried to start modding a few times and my computer's a wasteland of leftover Gradle files and editing environments by now, but it may work with one more attempt once 1.13 drops.
We're doing a mod project, check it out:
Well, this seems interesting. Considering how much Minecraft owes its popularity to its fans, I'm always impressed with community-run projects like this.
As for what has been discussed, I'm on board with most of it, except for the Aether. I've played, and loved, the Aether mod, but I've always been bugged by the fact that it's largely just "the Overworld in the Sky." Sure, some Aether suggestions are better than others, and GerbilCrab475's is one of the best versions, but I feel a new dimension should be something more unique, like the Frist. I also feel that Upper Caves would need to be tweaked, as I think it unnecessarily slows down gameplay, but I'd be fine either way.
Since you were discussing the underground, I'd like to mention my Biome-Specific Caves suggestion. It's mostly a cosmetic thing that doesn't add too many new blocks, but I think some more underground variety would go a long way.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
I approve of Biome-Specific Caves; it feels like a simple and effective way of making the underground feel more varied.
The Aether could be deleted if people feel it's totally unnecessary, but some features (e.g. Prism Glass and Floatsand) are quite interesting to me at least. The "floating islands" emphasis could be worked on more heavily; since Cubic Chunks is a suggestion on the concept sheet, perhaps the entirety of the Aether could in fact be part of the Overworld, simply generating at a very high Y. (though personally I prefer the idea of teleporting to it once you reach max Y level).
On that note. Should we work with Cubic Chunks or not? The performance increase seems to be the only major draw given that most players won't make significant use of infinite height, and it may or may not be buggy and difficult to work with.We're doing a mod project, check it out:
Thank you.
While I'm definitely a fan of Cubic Chunks, its practicality is certainly something that needs to be discussed. There was a Cubic Chunks mod, but it was difficult to make and when it was made, seemed more like a proof of concept rather than something you were actually meant to play with. I do want it, but good luck getting it to work. It's going to take a while.
Want to see my suggestions? Here they are!
I am also known as GameWyrm or GameWyrm97. You can also find me at snapshotmc.com
I'm fine either way with the Aether. I won't mind if we have it in, but I won't be heart broken if we don't.
Your Biome-Specific Caves suggestion will definitely fit well in this project. I think the Redstone Delayer that you've suggested would also work well with this mod.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ SUMMON MINECRAFT 2 PART 6 つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them: