An hour? I consider that to be a small cave system;
I said it was a small system, it's the cavern itself that is large. It took me over an hour just to light that cavern that I showed in the picture, not counting the time spent when I left the cave system to restock on wood and food.
I can accept that the 1.12 terrain generation isn't changed, but I am still excited about what I found because apparently in the current terrain generator it is very strange and rare.
P.S.: Do you have any videos of you doing caving? I sent you a PM asking this but I don't think you saw it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
P.S.: Do you have any videos of you doing caving? I sent you a PM asking this but I don't think you saw it.
I've never made any videos (for any reason); the closest that I've come to fully documenting a play session is taking a lot of screenshots; I took a lot more than usual when playing my most recent modded world (more than 1,000 total); for example, in this post and the following posts I document exploring one of my mod's "giant cave regions" (it took more than 5,500 torches to light it up over 5 play sessions; despite its size I collected less resources in more time than I did from a complex of 9 mineshafts and associated caves and ravines in vanilla since it is the surface area, not volume, that matters most).
I started playing in beta 1.2 (before beds) and I always liked spelunking because it's like a neverending adventure with proper challenges, goals and prizes, while the rest of the game doesn't offer much in that regard.
To make it work I had to tweak a few things, especially using a testure pack to make the dark actually dark (and spooky), activating Optifine's dynamic lights to make the atmosphere more realistic and for being able to throw torches in a pit to see how deep it is, disabling ravine generation (which are just a mix of annyoing + free loot) and making all ores diamond-rare and spawning almost at any height (with moderately larger veins), so that strip-mining is no longer a (super boring) option.
My game is hunting for dungeons (which I made as common as they used to be back in beta) and then using them as the basis for my own mega-dungeon, which is the only thing I build because houses literally serve no purpose a hole in the ground can't. Basically I search for a cave entrance on the surface then start exploring it until I'm sure everything as been visited, marking any dungeon I find.
Well, I started exploring this cave (1.11.2) and after maybe 10 hours I finally finished exploring it all when I saw this crack in a cave with a mineshaft on the other side. Now I know this will take much longer.
I'm not saying 1.7+ has as many caves as 1.6, there are multiple proofs against this. I'm just saying more caves than this would take away the sense of completion that I get when I finally finish exploring a large cave complex, eventually leading to frustration.
To each his own, I guess. BTW this thread proves TheMasterCaver deserves his nickname!
I'm not saying 1.7+ has as many caves as 1.6, there are multiple proofs against this. I'm just saying more caves than this would take away the sense of completion that I get when I finally finish exploring a large cave complex, eventually leading to frustration.
To each his own, I guess. BTW this thread proves TheMasterCaver deserves his nickname!
I agree. I probably cave better than anyone I know except for TheMasterCaver. But I like to finish a cave system and move on to the next. It bugs me when one seems to stretch on endlessly, or when there's so many caves running into each other that it becomes really difficult to spawnproof because there's a constant mob siege coming from all directions and there's 5+ corners to go around at one nexus plus the floor is out on half of it. I don't mind stumbling upon that occasionally but what I hated most about caves in 1.7+ is that that is commonplace sometimes. It seems to vary a lot actually, but in a given region you might get all nice neat individual caves, and in another region you just get swiss cheese ground everywhere. For quite some time I had thought there were subtle variations in each version of the game onward, because each new world seemed to generate a different style of caves. My 1.7 world's caves were nice and simple. My 1.8 world had swiss cheese everywhere and ravines so common you couldn't ride a horse more than 5 seconds without falling into one you couldn't see in time. My 1.9 world was more like my 1.7 world, until I went 10k by 16k blocks from the origin and found a monster cavern the likes of which I had previously thought couldn't possibly generate in the 1.7 terrain generator, plus swiss cheese caves a lot like my 1.8 world but with their own distinct flavor. I think you get a pattern that propagates itself over a large area and all the caves in your region have various similarities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
I don't mind stumbling upon that occasionally but what I hated most about caves in 1.7+ is that that is commonplace sometimes. It seems to vary a lot actually, but in a given region you might get all nice neat individual caves, and in another region you just get swiss cheese ground everywhere. For quite some time I had thought there were subtle variations in each version of the game onward, because each new world seemed to generate a different style of caves. My 1.7 world's caves were nice and simple. My 1.8 world had swiss cheese everywhere and ravines so common you couldn't ride a horse more than 5 seconds without falling into one you couldn't see in time. My 1.9 world was more like my 1.7 world, until I went 10k by 16k blocks from the origin and found a monster cavern the likes of which I had previously thought couldn't possibly generate in the 1.7 terrain generator, plus swiss cheese caves a lot like my 1.8 world but with their own distinct flavor. I think you get a pattern that propagates itself over a large area and all the caves in your region have various similarities.
Did you mean to say 1.6.4 instead of 1.7+? Because the variation you describe sounds a lot more like 1.6.4 cave generation, which has much greater regional variation; for example, here are various regions from my first world:
The area around spawn (near the center you can see where I store all the resources I collect):
This is just to the southwest of the area shown above, with very few caves:
This is the most extreme region as far as cave density goes:
An area with more average cave density:
Another area with relatively sparse caves:
Another one of the more extreme areas, but also with a large cave-free region:
Also, I've analyzed the variations in cave density before as shown in this series of charts (only one seed was used but that doesn't matter in most cases):
The differences in the charts above can be better seen in this comparison of caves between 1.6.4 and 1.7+ (each area is 4000x4000 blocks):
Did you mean to say 1.6.4 instead of 1.7+? Because the variation you describe sounds a lot more like 1.6.4 cave generation,
No. I've seen your charts and I understand the differences very well. What I'm saying is that I want less swiss cheese caves than the new terrain generator gives. I like variation over large distances, but I don't like it when caves going through caves is common even just in one region. I'd like variations in cave and cavern width and size, and variation in the size of a cave system, but I want individual cave channels to avoid all diving into each other at one point and completely destroying the terrain right there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
but I want individual cave channels to avoid all diving into each other at one point and completely destroying the terrain right there.
That makes it sound like you just want caves to be some isolated tunnels, not real cave systems with large random caverns created by the intersection of many individual tunnels - which is why I do not like 1.7+ cave generation; if you think that a few caves intersecting is bad, well, it isn't uncommon to find dozens or more in 1.6.4, where a single chunk can easily have 20-40 caves; for example, here is a list of every cave system within the spawn chunks in my world (as shown on this map), with the largest cave system having 41 caves, with another cave system with 26 caves right next to it:
Seed is -123775873255737467
Center is -96, 224 (chunk -6, 14)
Radius is 12 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 12 cave system at -112, 32; total number of caves: 15
Size 3 cave system at -32, 32; total number of caves: 4
Size 1 cave system at 32, 32; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -240, 48; total number of caves: 4
Size 1 cave system at -160, 48; total number of caves: 1
Size 9 cave system at -208, 64; total number of caves: 15
Size 1 cave system at -272, 80; total number of caves: 1
Size 9 cave system at -112, 96; total number of caves: 15
Size 3 cave system at -240, 112; total number of caves: 3
Size 4 cave system at -176, 112; total number of caves: 4
Size 29 cave system at -16, 112; total number of caves: 41
Size 1 cave system at 16, 112; total number of caves: 1
Size 14 cave system at -16, 128; total number of caves: 26
Size 4 cave system at 16, 128; total number of caves: 7
Size 4 cave system at -80, 160; total number of caves: 4
Size 2 cave system at 80, 160; total number of caves: 2
Size 8 cave system at -160, 192; total number of caves: 13
Size 1 cave system at -64, 192; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -240, 208; total number of caves: 4
Size 12 cave system at -112, 208; total number of caves: 16
Size 4 cave system at 80, 208; total number of caves: 7
Size 3 cave system at -144, 224; total number of caves: 3
Size 6 cave system at 0, 224; total number of caves: 7
Size 14 cave system at 32, 240; total number of caves: 20
Size 3 cave system at -176, 256; total number of caves: 3
Size 20 cave system at -240, 272; total number of caves: 30
Size 16 cave system at -32, 272; total number of caves: 27
Size 4 cave system at -256, 288; total number of caves: 4
Size 8 cave system at -96, 304; total number of caves: 8
Size 24 cave system at -240, 336; total number of caves: 31
Size 1 cave system at -192, 352; total number of caves: 1
Size 13 cave system at -240, 400; total number of caves: 19
Size 15 cave system at -192, 400; total number of caves: 22
Size 17 cave system at -128, 400; total number of caves: 23
Size 14 cave system at -64, 400; total number of caves: 18
Size 6 cave system at 16, 416; total number of caves: 15
Number of cave systems: 36
Initial number of caves: 294
Total number of caves: 416
Additional circular room caves: 122
Number of small caves: 405; average width is 6.03
Number of large caves: 11; average width is 12.28
Number of circular rooms: 74; average width is 10.85
Additional caves per circular room: 1.65
Average caves per chunk: 0.6656
Average altitude: 31.68
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 26.20
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 17.79
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 14.18
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 10.58
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 7.69
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 5.29
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 18.27
Here is the same area in 1.7+; the largest single cave system had 16 caves, which is also the most within a 3x3 chunk area around the three largest single cave systems; the average size of a cave system was 4.41 caves compared to 11.56 in 1.6.4:
Seed is -123775873255737467
Center is -96, 224 (chunk -6, 14)
Radius is 12 chunks (square)
Version used is >= 1.7.2
Size 1 cave system at 16, 32; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -288, 48; total number of caves: 1
Size 7 cave system at -144, 64; total number of caves: 7
Size 1 cave system at 80, 64; total number of caves: 1
Size 5 cave system at -288, 96; total number of caves: 9
Size 2 cave system at -176, 112; total number of caves: 2
Size 9 cave system at 0, 112; total number of caves: 15
Size 1 cave system at -256, 128; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at 0, 128; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at 96, 144; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -224, 160; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -176, 160; total number of caves: 9
Size 4 cave system at -80, 160; total number of caves: 4
Size 2 cave system at -48, 160; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at -16, 160; total number of caves: 3
Size 3 cave system at 48, 176; total number of caves: 6
Size 1 cave system at -224, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 6 cave system at -208, 208; total number of caves: 6
Size 1 cave system at -176, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 7 cave system at -64, 208; total number of caves: 16
Size 1 cave system at 64, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -288, 224; total number of caves: 1
Size 2 cave system at 64, 224; total number of caves: 2
Size 2 cave system at -176, 240; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at 48, 240; total number of caves: 6
Size 5 cave system at 64, 240; total number of caves: 6
Size 5 cave system at -176, 256; total number of caves: 9
Size 1 cave system at -144, 256; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at -16, 256; total number of caves: 6
Size 2 cave system at -224, 272; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at -128, 272; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -48, 272; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -256, 304; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -192, 304; total number of caves: 5
Size 8 cave system at -96, 304; total number of caves: 8
Size 2 cave system at -16, 304; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 32, 304; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at 64, 320; total number of caves: 3
Size 4 cave system at -160, 336; total number of caves: 11
Size 1 cave system at 0, 336; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at 80, 336; total number of caves: 5
Size 2 cave system at -208, 352; total number of caves: 2
Size 2 cave system at 16, 352; total number of caves: 2
Size 4 cave system at 64, 368; total number of caves: 5
Size 5 cave system at 96, 368; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -288, 384; total number of caves: 4
Size 10 cave system at -208, 384; total number of caves: 14
Size 6 cave system at -80, 384; total number of caves: 9
Size 2 cave system at -256, 400; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 16, 400; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at 64, 416; total number of caves: 7
Number of cave systems: 51
Initial number of caves: 158
Total number of caves: 225
Additional circular room caves: 67
Number of small caves: 221; average width is 5.96
Number of large caves: 4; average width is 11.95
Number of circular rooms: 42; average width is 10.87
Additional caves per circular room: 1.60
Average caves per chunk: 0.36
Average altitude: 34.76
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 18.67
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 22.67
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 16.00
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 8.89
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 5.33
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 8.00
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 20.44
Also, this gives you some idea of how large and dense cave systems can get in 1.6.4; the second one shown contains 70 caves in a single chunk and 113 caves in two adjacent chunks; needless to say, there isn't much solid ground remaining in the lower levels (the largest possible size in 1.6.4 is 39 with as many as 156 tunnels; 1.7 is limited to 14 and 56 respectively. A cave system with an initial size of 14 or more occurs about once every 153 chunks in 1.6.4, compared to 23625 in 1.7+):
Seed is -123775873255737467
Center is -816, -1040 (chunk -51, -65)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 26 cave system at -816, -1104; total number of caves: 37
Size 3 cave system at -784, -1104; total number of caves: 3
Size 24 cave system at -832, -1072; total number of caves: 34
Size 2 cave system at -768, -1072; total number of caves: 2
Size 23 cave system at -816, -1056; total number of caves: 39
Size 20 cave system at -800, -1024; total number of caves: 31
Size 3 cave system at -784, -1024; total number of caves: 3
Size 13 cave system at -800, -992; total number of caves: 18
Size 4 cave system at -864, -976; total number of caves: 7
Number of cave systems: 9
Initial number of caves: 118
Total number of caves: 174
Additional circular room caves: 56
Number of small caves: 171; average width is 6.04
Number of large caves: 3; average width is 12.18
Number of circular rooms: 33; average width is 10.38
Additional caves per circular room: 1.70
Average caves per chunk: 2.148148
Average altitude: 31.25
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 21.84
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 22.99
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 12.07
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 10.92
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 8.05
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 6.90
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 17.24
Seed is -7978171164721551672
Center is 1600, 1888 (chunk 100, 118)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 17 cave system at 1536, 1872; total number of caves: 24
Size 5 cave system at 1552, 1904; total number of caves: 5
Size 30 cave system at 1584, 1904; total number of caves: 43
Size 1 cave system at 1536, 1920; total number of caves: 1
Size 39 cave system at 1584, 1920; total number of caves: 70
Size 2 cave system at 1536, 1936; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 1568, 1936; total number of caves: 3
Size 6 cave system at 1616, 1952; total number of caves: 9
Size 5 cave system at 1632, 1952; total number of caves: 8
Number of cave systems: 9
Initial number of caves: 106
Total number of caves: 165
Additional circular room caves: 59
Number of small caves: 158; average width is 6.00
Number of large caves: 7; average width is 10.72
Number of circular rooms: 33; average width is 11.72
Additional caves per circular room: 1.79
Average caves per chunk: 2.0370371
Average altitude: 28.56
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 22.42
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 30.30
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 9.09
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 9.70
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 9.09
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 5.45
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 13.94
Seed is -6923329256941061233
Center is 176, 240 (chunk 11, 15)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 26 cave system at 176, 192; total number of caves: 37
Size 6 cave system at 224, 192; total number of caves: 8
Size 3 cave system at 112, 208; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at 160, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 8 cave system at 208, 208; total number of caves: 8
Size 24 cave system at 176, 224; total number of caves: 38
Size 36 cave system at 176, 240; total number of caves: 61
Size 18 cave system at 208, 240; total number of caves: 21
Size 3 cave system at 240, 240; total number of caves: 4
Size 17 cave system at 208, 256; total number of caves: 22
Size 7 cave system at 224, 256; total number of caves: 13
Size 7 cave system at 160, 272; total number of caves: 12
Size 1 cave system at 224, 288; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at 112, 304; total number of caves: 7
Size 32 cave system at 160, 304; total number of caves: 50
Size 1 cave system at 208, 304; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at 240, 304; total number of caves: 5
Number of cave systems: 17
Initial number of caves: 197
Total number of caves: 293
Additional circular room caves: 96
Number of small caves: 282; average width is 6.12
Number of large caves: 11; average width is 11.69
Number of circular rooms: 59; average width is 11.22
Additional caves per circular room: 1.63
Average caves per chunk: 3.617284
Average altitude: 31.58
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 20.82
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 17.41
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 17.75
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 11.26
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 10.24
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 7.51
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 15.02
The code is actually written so that up to 4 tunnels can originate from a single point (a circular room), which is why the total number of caves shown above is often greater than the initial size; there is a 25% chance of a circular room per iteration and a 25% chance each of 1, 2, 3, or 4 tunnels leading from it (the 15 on the first line determines the size range of cave systems; 1.6.4 uses 40, and the 7 on the next line determines the chance; 1.6.4 uses 15, so cave systems are larger but less common):
protected void recursiveGenerate(World worldIn, int chunkX, int chunkZ, int p_180701_4_, int p_180701_5_, ChunkPrimer chunkPrimerIn)
{
int i = this.rand.nextInt(this.rand.nextInt(this.rand.nextInt(15) + 1) + 1);
if (this.rand.nextInt(7) != 0)
{
i = 0;
}
for (int j = 0; j < i; ++j)
{
double d0 = (double)(chunkX * 16 + this.rand.nextInt(16));
double d1 = (double)this.rand.nextInt(this.rand.nextInt(120) + 8);
double d2 = (double)(chunkZ * 16 + this.rand.nextInt(16));
int k = 1;
if (this.rand.nextInt(4) == 0)
{
this.addRoom(this.rand.nextLong(), p_180701_4_, p_180701_5_, chunkPrimerIn, d0, d1, d2);
k += this.rand.nextInt(4);
}
for (int l = 0; l < k; ++l)
{
float f = this.rand.nextFloat() * ((float)Math.PI * 2F);
float f1 = (this.rand.nextFloat() - 0.5F) * 2.0F / 8.0F;
float f2 = this.rand.nextFloat() * 2.0F + this.rand.nextFloat();
if (this.rand.nextInt(10) == 0)
{
f2 *= this.rand.nextFloat() * this.rand.nextFloat() * 3.0F + 1.0F;
}
this.addTunnel(this.rand.nextLong(), p_180701_4_, p_180701_5_, chunkPrimerIn, d0, d1, d2, f2, f, f1, 0, 0, 1.0D);
}
}
}
i'm the same as you but in 1.7.10 modded i've played newer versions but not seriously
ie. never used 1.9 combat or end changes igloos and all that stuff
i started in 1.5.2 and i still have my first world C: i like these versions
EDIT:
wow i didn't know 1.7 had smaller caves i need a mod to revert it because i've experienced it
my current world was created in 1.6 and near my base there is a ginormous cave system i haven't finished exploring but when i go to 1.7 terrain i conquer the entire system easily
there is only one 1.7 system that is big like 1.6 but it's rares
That makes it sound like you just want caves to be some isolated tunnels, not real cave systems with large random caverns created by the intersection of many individual tunnels - which is why I do not like 1.7+ cave generation; if you think that a few caves intersecting is bad, well, it isn't uncommon to find dozens or more in 1.6.4,
Yes you've explained this before, and I strongly suspect if you poll the general Minecraft playerbase you'll find that your opinion on the matter is in the extreme minority. I'm not trying to belittle your playstyle, far from it, I'm simply making the point that the average player won't enjoy being thoroughly creamed by caves that are at your difficulty level. There should be sliders in the world options that enable caves like what you want, but the default I think caves should be less common and smoother than it is at current. As for the total size of the cave system I wouldn't mind that being bigger, especially at the upper end. But I'd ask more players for opinions on that--while many players don't cave as easily as I do, they also spend a lot less time in the caves. Maybe they prefer having it be fairly challenging for those rare occasions when they finally do venture down inside.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I want ocean content(thanks Möjang!), nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).
That makes it sound like you just want caves to be some isolated tunnels, not real cave systems with large random caverns created by the intersection of many individual tunnels
I like some isolated tunnes because if every cave was the start of a giant underground complex it would make spelunking predictable, so to speak, there won't be that sense of accomplishment in finding a "real" cave instead of a mere tunnel.
I'm not saying 1.7+ is better at that, just debating that single point.
A while back I made a suggestion to make caves slightly less common. I guess I didn't realize that they aren't everywhere at the moment. I'm with you on pre-1.7 terrain and caves: it was a lot better than current terrain.
So, just a question I have for you (sorry if you get this a lot):
Do you just mine? Is that it? Do you set goals or something? If so, the game isn't really a sandbox for you, right? Or am I wrong?
So, just a question I have for you (sorry if you get this a lot):
Do you just mine? Is that it? Do you set goals or something? If so, the game isn't really a sandbox for you, right? Or am I wrong
Well, pretty much (though I much prefer caving to mining, as mining just makes it sound like I just mine when less than 10% of the time I spend caving is spent mining something and that is not the reason why I cave; in fact, I actually branch-mine to get my first resources in a new world); in my most recent world, where I kept detailed notes on what I did, about 86% of the entire time was spent caving:
Play sessions spent caving: 121 out of 140 total
Structures/caves found (by number):
191 normal dungeons
171 ravines (up to 7 intersecting; large ravines counted separately)
60 mineshafts
35 large caves (larger than vanilla, not including giant caves)
28 large cave systems (the sort of swiss cheese cave found prior to 1.7)
11 double dungeons (a special type, not two dungeons intersecting)
11 large ravines (larger than vanilla)
7 circular rooms at least 34 blocks in diameter (twice as large as vanilla)
7 fossils
6 villages
5 giant caves (>50000 in volume)
4 ravine cave clusters
3 circular room cave clusters
3 circular room cave systems
3 combination cave systems
3 igloos (1 with basement)
3 jungle temples
3 ravine cave systems
3 vertical cave clusters
2 maze cave systems
2 network cave regions
2 vertical cave systems
1 colossal cave system
1 desert temple
1 desert well
1 giant cave region
1 maze cave cluster
1 stronghold (found with Eye of Ender)
1 witch hut
(570 individual structures/caves)
Biomes found (by order found):
Plains (technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Mixed Forest
Lake (technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Jungle
Birch Forest
Poplar Grove (technical biome in Birch Forest)
Desert
Tropical Swamp
Big Oak Forest
Taiga (snowless)
Rocky Mountains
Ice Plains
Roofed Forest
Mesa
Winter Forest
Forest Mountains
Bushlands
Mountainous Desert
Swampland
Hilly Plains
Winter Taiga
Frozen Lake (technical biome in Winter Forest and others)
Mega Tree Plains
Spruce Hills (technical biome in Mega Tree Plains)
Mega Forest
Plains
Forest (technical biome in Plains)
Forest
Lake
Savanna Mountains
Poplar Grove
Mega Mixed Forest
Savanna Plateau
Flower Forest
Extreme Hills
(31 unique biomes)
Highest terrain found (y=128 or higher, highest peak in an instance of a biome):
165 (Ice Mountains)
160 (Extreme Hills)
156 (Rocky Mountains)
148 (Savanna Mountains)
139 (Extreme Hills)
130 (Jungle Hills)
128 (Roofed Forest Hills)
Largest cave:
293 blocks long and 60 blocks wide, volume of 251257
Largest circular room:
57 blocks in diameter, volume of 46870
Largest ravine:
336 blocks long, 28 blocks wide, 55 blocks deep, volume of 266923
Largest mineshaft:
757 rails mined (average is 301 per mineshaft)
Other:
3 skeletons in amethyst armor
3 skeletons in diamond armor
2 zombies in amethyst armor
10 zombies in diamond armor
3 Notch apples found in dungeon chests (27 regular golden apples, 30 total)
10249 chunks explored (containing torches), 118834 torches placed in world
Nearly everything listed here has something to do with caving, and most of the other stuff, like villages and biomes, were found as I explored the world underground, as evidenced by the fact that I found over 500 underground features, many of them commonly considered to be rare (e.g. dungeons, which have a frequency of about one every 100 chunks in 1.7+ and about one in 40 in 1.6.4 and my mod, which is not really that uncommon considering that even 100 chunks is only 160x160 blocks):
The same has applied to all of my worlds, including my first world since the first month or two after I started playing; if you look in the thread for that world you'll see what I mean; the last few posts are all about some large cave systems that I found, and I found yet another one over the past few days (what you see here is what I explored over three play sessions, covering an area measuring about 350 x 200 blocks; I first explored part of the cave system, then branched outwards along connected caves and mineshafts, then explored the rest after returning to a marked entrance):
To help put that into perspective here is what I've explored within the current map I'm exploring - the 6th fully zoomed (2048x2048 blocks) map for this world with the equivalent of about 5 fully explored, with the right side including what I explored over the past 3 days (note that only explored areas are shown since I copied the region files for the current map and deleted all chunks without torches; similarly, the rendering shown above only shows caves with torches in them):
While I did have a goal to find at least one of every type of cave added by my mod in my last world, and stopped playing it after I found and explored all of them (which took about 4 months of sessions spent just caving; 19 more were spent getting started, killing the Ender Dragon, and other "normal" Survival stuff, with caving saved for the "end-game"), I do not really have any goals in my first world, which is my longest-played world by far and the only world I've consistently played on for years, other than noting significant milestones as I approach/reach them, most recently mining a total of 2 million ore; just to give you another idea of how I play:
While I do not know how much of that time has been spent caving about 86.43% of the total time I spent in my previous world was spent caving, which translates to about 105.18 days for this world, meaning that I've mined an average of about 793 ore and collected 1030 resources per hour - every hour for around 2524 hours; the average session length of 3.498 hours gives 2774 ore mined and 3604 resources collected per session. I've also mined 2.83 million blocks with a diamond pickaxe for an average of 1121 per hour and 3922 per session (all these figures assume 86.43% of the total time and sessions).
So, Minecraft to you is just caving, pretty much? This isn't meant to sound rude; I just feel like I'm missing something. Don't you enjoy building things, or exploring (though without mods exploring is pretty boring), or anything else?
So, Minecraft to you is just caving, pretty much? This isn't meant to sound rude; I just feel like I'm missing something. Don't you enjoy building things, or exploring (though without mods exploring is pretty boring), or anything else?
A lot of the fun of caving to me is the exploration aspect - you'll never know what you'll find next when going down a previously unexplored tunnel, and while there are only a few different underground features (caves, ravines, mineshafts, dungeons) each one is unique (a lot of people describe every cave as being the same but that is not true; for example, on this map you can see a couple large cave systems near the center, while to the east is an area with very few caves, south of that is a region resembling 1.7+ cave generation, and so on. Likewise, I've only found a few instances of 5 or more intersecting ravines and always wonder if I've found more whenever I find a new one).
My mods further enhance this by adding more cave variations - it took around 4 months of daily playing to find every one of them in my last world, I even added Notch apples to dungeon chests and diamond gear to some other chests for the excitement of finding such rare items (each rarer than Notch apples are in 1.9+).
Restricting yourself to finding new biomes and surface structures by exploring underground (aside from finding a stronghold) also makes finding them more exciting by effectively making them rarer (one reason why I particularly dislike the biome changes in 1.7 is because I'd never find most of them unless they were within a thousand blocks of spawn; even in my previous world I only explored an area equivalent to 2200x2200 blocks and that was my second-longest played world by a good margin. In fact, I've never found every biome added in my mods even across all four worlds I've made with them so far - including a couple added in the first version).
And certainly, most of my secondary bases are little more than cobblestone boxes with the bare necessities (chests, bed, food and wood farms, and in my first world, additional farms for emeralds, and villager trading posts if I built it in a village):
Though I have made more elaborate bases, including my main bases, which even have non-functional decoration, beyond the trees seen above (though are still basically just boxes):
My most recent base, which was built inside a village, is probably the only time I've built something that looks like a house, modeled after a village house:
Also, the entire reason why Minecraft is so popular is because you can play it however you like.
Personally, purely in terms of my nostalgia, I would play on anything older than 1.7, but not older than 1.4.7 (technically, I started playing PCMC in 1.4.6, but 1.4.7 came out shortly after, and I would usually prefer the latest patch of an update anyway); The Update that 'Changed' the World (which effectively turned continents into Pangaeas, by the way) and subsequent updates have only introduced more long-standing bugs, only one of them (repeating sounds upon closing a menu) being fixed the other year, and their features haven't been overly useful. Also, let's not forget that since 1.6, Mutton and other bells and whistles have been added, all without paying attention to balance (Though for example, as TMC mentioned, rail systems still have an advantage over horses for for example being able to go through smaller extreme hills quickly and more easily compared to the horse). You'd think with the game so big and therefore the potential for an even greater game from its indie beginnings, they'd obviously pay attention to balance and show some professionalism in it in general.
In terms of the level of fun while still being relaxed, I would prefer Beta 1.7.3. The terrain gen then, IMO, despite others' claims, was obviously better than the new one; terrain actually depended on biome - and still does despite 1.13's changes (but I could be wrong at least somewhat), and that is not the right way to play things if you're going for variety. In fact, the other year, I saw a screenshot of terrain that would've been in Beta 1.8, and some people literally remember being all hyped up for it, so that was quite a big upset for an optimistic community that still continues to this day.
Also, the old gen was actually reminiscent of the terrain in my MCPE beginnings; simple, fun, unique every time.
Although this is not directly related, the current version I would prefer is 1.5.2, because of Better than Wolves; it may literally be the only truly well-designed Minecraft mod out there, because most others contain a lot of bugs and oversights despite being 'official' or something like that, and of course can imbalance things. But it's equally important to note that most modders are just those with some programming experience and a willingness to share, so maybe the community should've never expected them to be 'professional' or anything like that, or actually make Minecraft 'good'. (In fact, I would feel guilty running any mod besides BTW because of the feeling of imbalance or just plain overcomplication.)
Even if I end up dying or quitting because of a bad situation, and feel like quitting BTW completely, I cannot stop coming back to it; it's that fun.
That actually proves I'm not one of those 'gamers' who enjoy a haphazardly put-together modpack or mod just because it seems 'fun', like many popular YouTubers (I'm amazed they even still enjoy such content), or play any other game in the same way. I'm actually 20 years old and was born in 1997, (so I'll be 21 this month), so I'm actually a Generation Y or Millennial, and having played games my whole life, I understand the concept of good gameplay balance, and me having considered Minecraft is no exception.
So that ends my argument. if you have anything to say or any questions, I'll be glad to answer back.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I always seem to be better at writing than verbal communication...
Although this is not directly related, the current version I would prefer is 1.5.2, because of Better than Wolves; it may literally be the only truly well-designed Minecraft mod out there, because most others contain a lot of bugs and oversights despite being 'official' or something like that, and of course can imbalance things. But it's equally important to note that most modders are just those with some programming experience and a willingness to share, so maybe the community should've never expected them to be 'professional' or anything like that, or actually make Minecraft 'good'. (In fact, I would feel guilty running any mod besides BTW because of the feeling of imbalance or just plain overcomplication.)
Even if I end up dying or quitting because of a bad situation, and feel like quitting BTW completely, I cannot stop coming back to it; it's that fun.
Since you mention Better than Wolves; my own mod "TheMasterCaver's World" is very similar; as with BTW, TMCW is largely based around how I think Mojang could have implemented newer features, like the atrocious "climate system" which forces you to search for a good seed unless you want to travel potentially thousands of blocks to find biomes which are significantly different from the ones you spawn in (here is a rendering of a world I recently played on). It also preserves a "universal ocean" type world while not having quite so much ocean by adding in smaller landmasses of varying size to oceans. And, of course, instead of nerfing the underground, a major part of the game, it adds more features (more variation in caves and new cave variants).
It even has my own version of the highly controversial 1.9 combat, designed around my combat style, which lets you attack multiple mobs as fast as you can accurately hit them (an upcoming version fixes the issue that you can spam-click empty air with no penalty, and lets you attack a single mob as fast as its damage immunity allows, instead of once per second with no penalty, though if you have a good enchanted sword this doesn't matter much). My version of Mending replaces renaming an item to keep its cost down instead of magically repairing them with XP (1.9's Mending also makes it too easy to get crazy overpowered gear with 5-6 enchantments and makes mining and anvils obsolete), and so on.
Since you mention Better than Wolves; my own mod "TheMasterCaver's World" is very similar; as with BTW, TMCW is largely based around how I think Mojang could have implemented newer features, like the atrocious "climate system" which forces you to search for a good seed unless you want to travel potentially thousands of blocks to find biomes which are significantly different from the ones you spawn in (here is a rendering of a world I recently played on). It also preserves a "universal ocean" type world while not having quite so much ocean by adding in smaller landmasses of varying size to oceans. And, of course, instead of nerfing the underground, a major part of the game, it adds more features (more variation in caves and new cave variants).
It even has my own version of the highly controversial 1.9 combat, designed around my combat style, which lets you attack multiple mobs as fast as you can accurately hit them (an upcoming version fixes the issue that you can spam-click empty air with no penalty, and lets you attack a single mob as fast as its damage immunity allows, instead of once per second with no penalty, though if you have a good enchanted sword this doesn't matter much). My version of Mending replaces renaming an item to keep its cost down instead of magically repairing them with XP (1.9's Mending also makes it too easy to get crazy overpowered gear with 5-6 enchantments and makes mining and anvils obsolete), and so on.
That is very true, and being one of the more technically-minded people on the internet, your arguments are actually valid in comparison with most other players and general common sense.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I always seem to be better at writing than verbal communication...
I said it was a small system, it's the cavern itself that is large. It took me over an hour just to light that cavern that I showed in the picture, not counting the time spent when I left the cave system to restock on wood and food.
I can accept that the 1.12 terrain generation isn't changed, but I am still excited about what I found because apparently in the current terrain generator it is very strange and rare.
P.S.: Do you have any videos of you doing caving? I sent you a PM asking this but I don't think you saw it.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).I've never made any videos (for any reason); the closest that I've come to fully documenting a play session is taking a lot of screenshots; I took a lot more than usual when playing my most recent modded world (more than 1,000 total); for example, in this post and the following posts I document exploring one of my mod's "giant cave regions" (it took more than 5,500 torches to light it up over 5 play sessions; despite its size I collected less resources in more time than I did from a complex of 9 mineshafts and associated caves and ravines in vanilla since it is the surface area, not volume, that matters most).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Could you just record yourself caving for about ten minutes or so? You don't have to narrate or anything. I just want to watch your style.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).I started playing in beta 1.2 (before beds) and I always liked spelunking because it's like a neverending adventure with proper challenges, goals and prizes, while the rest of the game doesn't offer much in that regard.
To make it work I had to tweak a few things, especially using a testure pack to make the dark actually dark (and spooky), activating Optifine's dynamic lights to make the atmosphere more realistic and for being able to throw torches in a pit to see how deep it is, disabling ravine generation (which are just a mix of annyoing + free loot) and making all ores diamond-rare and spawning almost at any height (with moderately larger veins), so that strip-mining is no longer a (super boring) option.
My game is hunting for dungeons (which I made as common as they used to be back in beta) and then using them as the basis for my own mega-dungeon, which is the only thing I build because houses literally serve no purpose a hole in the ground can't. Basically I search for a cave entrance on the surface then start exploring it until I'm sure everything as been visited, marking any dungeon I find.
Well, I started exploring this cave (1.11.2) and after maybe 10 hours I finally finished exploring it all when I saw this crack in a cave with a mineshaft on the other side. Now I know this will take much longer.
I'm not saying 1.7+ has as many caves as 1.6, there are multiple proofs against this. I'm just saying more caves than this would take away the sense of completion that I get when I finally finish exploring a large cave complex, eventually leading to frustration.
To each his own, I guess. BTW this thread proves TheMasterCaver deserves his nickname!
branch mining*
I agree. I probably cave better than anyone I know except for TheMasterCaver. But I like to finish a cave system and move on to the next. It bugs me when one seems to stretch on endlessly, or when there's so many caves running into each other that it becomes really difficult to spawnproof because there's a constant mob siege coming from all directions and there's 5+ corners to go around at one nexus plus the floor is out on half of it. I don't mind stumbling upon that occasionally but what I hated most about caves in 1.7+ is that that is commonplace sometimes. It seems to vary a lot actually, but in a given region you might get all nice neat individual caves, and in another region you just get swiss cheese ground everywhere. For quite some time I had thought there were subtle variations in each version of the game onward, because each new world seemed to generate a different style of caves. My 1.7 world's caves were nice and simple. My 1.8 world had swiss cheese everywhere and ravines so common you couldn't ride a horse more than 5 seconds without falling into one you couldn't see in time. My 1.9 world was more like my 1.7 world, until I went 10k by 16k blocks from the origin and found a monster cavern the likes of which I had previously thought couldn't possibly generate in the 1.7 terrain generator, plus swiss cheese caves a lot like my 1.8 world but with their own distinct flavor. I think you get a pattern that propagates itself over a large area and all the caves in your region have various similarities.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).Did you mean to say 1.6.4 instead of 1.7+? Because the variation you describe sounds a lot more like 1.6.4 cave generation, which has much greater regional variation; for example, here are various regions from my first world:
This is just to the southwest of the area shown above, with very few caves:
This is the most extreme region as far as cave density goes:
An area with more average cave density:
Another area with relatively sparse caves:
Another one of the more extreme areas, but also with a large cave-free region:
Also, I've analyzed the variations in cave density before as shown in this series of charts (only one seed was used but that doesn't matter in most cases):
The differences in the charts above can be better seen in this comparison of caves between 1.6.4 and 1.7+ (each area is 4000x4000 blocks):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
No. I've seen your charts and I understand the differences very well. What I'm saying is that I want less swiss cheese caves than the new terrain generator gives. I like variation over large distances, but I don't like it when caves going through caves is common even just in one region. I'd like variations in cave and cavern width and size, and variation in the size of a cave system, but I want individual cave channels to avoid all diving into each other at one point and completely destroying the terrain right there.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).That makes it sound like you just want caves to be some isolated tunnels, not real cave systems with large random caverns created by the intersection of many individual tunnels - which is why I do not like 1.7+ cave generation; if you think that a few caves intersecting is bad, well, it isn't uncommon to find dozens or more in 1.6.4, where a single chunk can easily have 20-40 caves; for example, here is a list of every cave system within the spawn chunks in my world (as shown on this map), with the largest cave system having 41 caves, with another cave system with 26 caves right next to it:
Center is -96, 224 (chunk -6, 14)
Radius is 12 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 12 cave system at -112, 32; total number of caves: 15
Size 3 cave system at -32, 32; total number of caves: 4
Size 1 cave system at 32, 32; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -240, 48; total number of caves: 4
Size 1 cave system at -160, 48; total number of caves: 1
Size 9 cave system at -208, 64; total number of caves: 15
Size 1 cave system at -272, 80; total number of caves: 1
Size 9 cave system at -112, 96; total number of caves: 15
Size 3 cave system at -240, 112; total number of caves: 3
Size 4 cave system at -176, 112; total number of caves: 4
Size 29 cave system at -16, 112; total number of caves: 41
Size 1 cave system at 16, 112; total number of caves: 1
Size 14 cave system at -16, 128; total number of caves: 26
Size 4 cave system at 16, 128; total number of caves: 7
Size 4 cave system at -80, 160; total number of caves: 4
Size 2 cave system at 80, 160; total number of caves: 2
Size 8 cave system at -160, 192; total number of caves: 13
Size 1 cave system at -64, 192; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -240, 208; total number of caves: 4
Size 12 cave system at -112, 208; total number of caves: 16
Size 4 cave system at 80, 208; total number of caves: 7
Size 3 cave system at -144, 224; total number of caves: 3
Size 6 cave system at 0, 224; total number of caves: 7
Size 14 cave system at 32, 240; total number of caves: 20
Size 3 cave system at -176, 256; total number of caves: 3
Size 20 cave system at -240, 272; total number of caves: 30
Size 16 cave system at -32, 272; total number of caves: 27
Size 4 cave system at -256, 288; total number of caves: 4
Size 8 cave system at -96, 304; total number of caves: 8
Size 24 cave system at -240, 336; total number of caves: 31
Size 1 cave system at -192, 352; total number of caves: 1
Size 13 cave system at -240, 400; total number of caves: 19
Size 15 cave system at -192, 400; total number of caves: 22
Size 17 cave system at -128, 400; total number of caves: 23
Size 14 cave system at -64, 400; total number of caves: 18
Size 6 cave system at 16, 416; total number of caves: 15
Number of cave systems: 36
Initial number of caves: 294
Total number of caves: 416
Additional circular room caves: 122
Number of small caves: 405; average width is 6.03
Number of large caves: 11; average width is 12.28
Number of circular rooms: 74; average width is 10.85
Additional caves per circular room: 1.65
Average caves per chunk: 0.6656
Average altitude: 31.68
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 26.20
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 17.79
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 14.18
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 10.58
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 7.69
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 5.29
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 18.27
Here is the same area in 1.7+; the largest single cave system had 16 caves, which is also the most within a 3x3 chunk area around the three largest single cave systems; the average size of a cave system was 4.41 caves compared to 11.56 in 1.6.4:
Center is -96, 224 (chunk -6, 14)
Radius is 12 chunks (square)
Version used is >= 1.7.2
Size 1 cave system at 16, 32; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -288, 48; total number of caves: 1
Size 7 cave system at -144, 64; total number of caves: 7
Size 1 cave system at 80, 64; total number of caves: 1
Size 5 cave system at -288, 96; total number of caves: 9
Size 2 cave system at -176, 112; total number of caves: 2
Size 9 cave system at 0, 112; total number of caves: 15
Size 1 cave system at -256, 128; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at 0, 128; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at 96, 144; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -224, 160; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -176, 160; total number of caves: 9
Size 4 cave system at -80, 160; total number of caves: 4
Size 2 cave system at -48, 160; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at -16, 160; total number of caves: 3
Size 3 cave system at 48, 176; total number of caves: 6
Size 1 cave system at -224, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 6 cave system at -208, 208; total number of caves: 6
Size 1 cave system at -176, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 7 cave system at -64, 208; total number of caves: 16
Size 1 cave system at 64, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -288, 224; total number of caves: 1
Size 2 cave system at 64, 224; total number of caves: 2
Size 2 cave system at -176, 240; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at 48, 240; total number of caves: 6
Size 5 cave system at 64, 240; total number of caves: 6
Size 5 cave system at -176, 256; total number of caves: 9
Size 1 cave system at -144, 256; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at -16, 256; total number of caves: 6
Size 2 cave system at -224, 272; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at -128, 272; total number of caves: 1
Size 1 cave system at -48, 272; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at -256, 304; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -192, 304; total number of caves: 5
Size 8 cave system at -96, 304; total number of caves: 8
Size 2 cave system at -16, 304; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 32, 304; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at 64, 320; total number of caves: 3
Size 4 cave system at -160, 336; total number of caves: 11
Size 1 cave system at 0, 336; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at 80, 336; total number of caves: 5
Size 2 cave system at -208, 352; total number of caves: 2
Size 2 cave system at 16, 352; total number of caves: 2
Size 4 cave system at 64, 368; total number of caves: 5
Size 5 cave system at 96, 368; total number of caves: 5
Size 3 cave system at -288, 384; total number of caves: 4
Size 10 cave system at -208, 384; total number of caves: 14
Size 6 cave system at -80, 384; total number of caves: 9
Size 2 cave system at -256, 400; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 16, 400; total number of caves: 1
Size 3 cave system at 64, 416; total number of caves: 7
Number of cave systems: 51
Initial number of caves: 158
Total number of caves: 225
Additional circular room caves: 67
Number of small caves: 221; average width is 5.96
Number of large caves: 4; average width is 11.95
Number of circular rooms: 42; average width is 10.87
Additional caves per circular room: 1.60
Average caves per chunk: 0.36
Average altitude: 34.76
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 18.67
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 22.67
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 16.00
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 8.89
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 5.33
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 8.00
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 20.44
Also, this gives you some idea of how large and dense cave systems can get in 1.6.4; the second one shown contains 70 caves in a single chunk and 113 caves in two adjacent chunks; needless to say, there isn't much solid ground remaining in the lower levels (the largest possible size in 1.6.4 is 39 with as many as 156 tunnels; 1.7 is limited to 14 and 56 respectively. A cave system with an initial size of 14 or more occurs about once every 153 chunks in 1.6.4, compared to 23625 in 1.7+):
Seed is -123775873255737467
Center is -816, -1040 (chunk -51, -65)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 26 cave system at -816, -1104; total number of caves: 37
Size 3 cave system at -784, -1104; total number of caves: 3
Size 24 cave system at -832, -1072; total number of caves: 34
Size 2 cave system at -768, -1072; total number of caves: 2
Size 23 cave system at -816, -1056; total number of caves: 39
Size 20 cave system at -800, -1024; total number of caves: 31
Size 3 cave system at -784, -1024; total number of caves: 3
Size 13 cave system at -800, -992; total number of caves: 18
Size 4 cave system at -864, -976; total number of caves: 7
Number of cave systems: 9
Initial number of caves: 118
Total number of caves: 174
Additional circular room caves: 56
Number of small caves: 171; average width is 6.04
Number of large caves: 3; average width is 12.18
Number of circular rooms: 33; average width is 10.38
Additional caves per circular room: 1.70
Average caves per chunk: 2.148148
Average altitude: 31.25
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 21.84
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 22.99
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 12.07
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 10.92
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 8.05
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 6.90
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 17.24
Seed is -7978171164721551672
Center is 1600, 1888 (chunk 100, 118)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 17 cave system at 1536, 1872; total number of caves: 24
Size 5 cave system at 1552, 1904; total number of caves: 5
Size 30 cave system at 1584, 1904; total number of caves: 43
Size 1 cave system at 1536, 1920; total number of caves: 1
Size 39 cave system at 1584, 1920; total number of caves: 70
Size 2 cave system at 1536, 1936; total number of caves: 2
Size 1 cave system at 1568, 1936; total number of caves: 3
Size 6 cave system at 1616, 1952; total number of caves: 9
Size 5 cave system at 1632, 1952; total number of caves: 8
Number of cave systems: 9
Initial number of caves: 106
Total number of caves: 165
Additional circular room caves: 59
Number of small caves: 158; average width is 6.00
Number of large caves: 7; average width is 10.72
Number of circular rooms: 33; average width is 11.72
Additional caves per circular room: 1.79
Average caves per chunk: 2.0370371
Average altitude: 28.56
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 22.42
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 30.30
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 9.09
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 9.70
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 9.09
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 5.45
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 13.94
Seed is -6923329256941061233
Center is 176, 240 (chunk 11, 15)
Radius is 4 chunks (square)
Version used is <= 1.6.4
Size 26 cave system at 176, 192; total number of caves: 37
Size 6 cave system at 224, 192; total number of caves: 8
Size 3 cave system at 112, 208; total number of caves: 3
Size 1 cave system at 160, 208; total number of caves: 1
Size 8 cave system at 208, 208; total number of caves: 8
Size 24 cave system at 176, 224; total number of caves: 38
Size 36 cave system at 176, 240; total number of caves: 61
Size 18 cave system at 208, 240; total number of caves: 21
Size 3 cave system at 240, 240; total number of caves: 4
Size 17 cave system at 208, 256; total number of caves: 22
Size 7 cave system at 224, 256; total number of caves: 13
Size 7 cave system at 160, 272; total number of caves: 12
Size 1 cave system at 224, 288; total number of caves: 1
Size 4 cave system at 112, 304; total number of caves: 7
Size 32 cave system at 160, 304; total number of caves: 50
Size 1 cave system at 208, 304; total number of caves: 2
Size 3 cave system at 240, 304; total number of caves: 5
Number of cave systems: 17
Initial number of caves: 197
Total number of caves: 293
Additional circular room caves: 96
Number of small caves: 282; average width is 6.12
Number of large caves: 11; average width is 11.69
Number of circular rooms: 59; average width is 11.22
Additional caves per circular room: 1.63
Average caves per chunk: 3.617284
Average altitude: 31.58
Percentage of caves on layers 0 to 9: 20.82
Percentage of caves on layers 10 to 19: 17.41
Percentage of caves on layers 20 to 29: 17.75
Percentage of caves on layers 30 to 39: 11.26
Percentage of caves on layers 40 to 49: 10.24
Percentage of caves on layers 50 to 59: 7.51
Percentage of caves above layer 59: 15.02
The code is actually written so that up to 4 tunnels can originate from a single point (a circular room), which is why the total number of caves shown above is often greater than the initial size; there is a 25% chance of a circular room per iteration and a 25% chance each of 1, 2, 3, or 4 tunnels leading from it (the 15 on the first line determines the size range of cave systems; 1.6.4 uses 40, and the 7 on the next line determines the chance; 1.6.4 uses 15, so cave systems are larger but less common):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
A lot of this post is just a convo between TheMasterCaver and reaverofdarknes1 lol
#TEAMINSTINCTFTW
i'm the same as you but in 1.7.10 modded i've played newer versions but not seriously
ie. never used 1.9 combat or end changes igloos and all that stuff
i started in 1.5.2 and i still have my first world C: i like these versions
EDIT:
wow i didn't know 1.7 had smaller caves i need a mod to revert it because i've experienced it
my current world was created in 1.6 and near my base there is a ginormous cave system i haven't finished exploring but when i go to 1.7 terrain i conquer the entire system easily
there is only one 1.7 system that is big like 1.6 but it's rares
Yes you've explained this before, and I strongly suspect if you poll the general Minecraft playerbase you'll find that your opinion on the matter is in the extreme minority. I'm not trying to belittle your playstyle, far from it, I'm simply making the point that the average player won't enjoy being thoroughly creamed by caves that are at your difficulty level. There should be sliders in the world options that enable caves like what you want, but the default I think caves should be less common and smoother than it is at current. As for the total size of the cave system I wouldn't mind that being bigger, especially at the upper end. But I'd ask more players for opinions on that--while many players don't cave as easily as I do, they also spend a lot less time in the caves. Maybe they prefer having it be fairly challenging for those rare occasions when they finally do venture down inside.
I want
ocean content(thanks Möjang!),nether biomes(again thanks!!), and savanna passive mobs (meerkats incoming!?).I like some isolated tunnes because if every cave was the start of a giant underground complex it would make spelunking predictable, so to speak, there won't be that sense of accomplishment in finding a "real" cave instead of a mere tunnel.
I'm not saying 1.7+ is better at that, just debating that single point.
A while back I made a suggestion to make caves slightly less common. I guess I didn't realize that they aren't everywhere at the moment. I'm with you on pre-1.7 terrain and caves: it was a lot better than current terrain.
So, just a question I have for you (sorry if you get this a lot):
Do you just mine? Is that it? Do you set goals or something? If so, the game isn't really a sandbox for you, right? Or am I wrong?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
Well, pretty much (though I much prefer caving to mining, as mining just makes it sound like I just mine when less than 10% of the time I spend caving is spent mining something and that is not the reason why I cave; in fact, I actually branch-mine to get my first resources in a new world); in my most recent world, where I kept detailed notes on what I did, about 86% of the entire time was spent caving:
Structures/caves found (by number):
191 normal dungeons
171 ravines (up to 7 intersecting; large ravines counted separately)
60 mineshafts
35 large caves (larger than vanilla, not including giant caves)
28 large cave systems (the sort of swiss cheese cave found prior to 1.7)
11 double dungeons (a special type, not two dungeons intersecting)
11 large ravines (larger than vanilla)
7 circular rooms at least 34 blocks in diameter (twice as large as vanilla)
7 fossils
6 villages
5 giant caves (>50000 in volume)
4 ravine cave clusters
3 circular room cave clusters
3 circular room cave systems
3 combination cave systems
3 igloos (1 with basement)
3 jungle temples
3 ravine cave systems
3 vertical cave clusters
2 maze cave systems
2 network cave regions
2 vertical cave systems
1 colossal cave system
1 desert temple
1 desert well
1 giant cave region
1 maze cave cluster
1 stronghold (found with Eye of Ender)
1 witch hut
(570 individual structures/caves)
Biomes found (by order found):
Plains (technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Mixed Forest
Lake (technical biome in Mixed Forest and others)
Jungle
Birch Forest
Poplar Grove (technical biome in Birch Forest)
Desert
Tropical Swamp
Big Oak Forest
Taiga (snowless)
Rocky Mountains
Ice Plains
Roofed Forest
Mesa
Winter Forest
Forest Mountains
Bushlands
Mountainous Desert
Swampland
Hilly Plains
Winter Taiga
Frozen Lake (technical biome in Winter Forest and others)
Mega Tree Plains
Spruce Hills (technical biome in Mega Tree Plains)
Mega Forest
Plains
Forest (technical biome in Plains)
Forest
Lake
Savanna Mountains
Poplar Grove
Mega Mixed Forest
Savanna Plateau
Flower Forest
Extreme Hills
(31 unique biomes)
Highest terrain found (y=128 or higher, highest peak in an instance of a biome):
165 (Ice Mountains)
160 (Extreme Hills)
156 (Rocky Mountains)
148 (Savanna Mountains)
139 (Extreme Hills)
130 (Jungle Hills)
128 (Roofed Forest Hills)
Largest cave:
293 blocks long and 60 blocks wide, volume of 251257
Largest circular room:
57 blocks in diameter, volume of 46870
Largest ravine:
336 blocks long, 28 blocks wide, 55 blocks deep, volume of 266923
Largest mineshaft:
757 rails mined (average is 301 per mineshaft)
Other:
3 skeletons in amethyst armor
3 skeletons in diamond armor
2 zombies in amethyst armor
10 zombies in diamond armor
3 Notch apples found in dungeon chests (27 regular golden apples, 30 total)
2 pink sheep
453 mob spawners collected (191 dungeons, 11 double dungeons (2 each), 240 cave spider (4 per mineshaft))
10249 chunks explored (containing torches), 118834 torches placed in world
Nearly everything listed here has something to do with caving, and most of the other stuff, like villages and biomes, were found as I explored the world underground, as evidenced by the fact that I found over 500 underground features, many of them commonly considered to be rare (e.g. dungeons, which have a frequency of about one every 100 chunks in 1.7+ and about one in 40 in 1.6.4 and my mod, which is not really that uncommon considering that even 100 chunks is only 160x160 blocks):
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/survival-mode/2780836-themastercavers-world-version-4
The same has applied to all of my worlds, including my first world since the first month or two after I started playing; if you look in the thread for that world you'll see what I mean; the last few posts are all about some large cave systems that I found, and I found yet another one over the past few days (what you see here is what I explored over three play sessions, covering an area measuring about 350 x 200 blocks; I first explored part of the cave system, then branched outwards along connected caves and mineshafts, then explored the rest after returning to a marked entrance):
To help put that into perspective here is what I've explored within the current map I'm exploring - the 6th fully zoomed (2048x2048 blocks) map for this world with the equivalent of about 5 fully explored, with the right side including what I explored over the past 3 days (note that only explored areas are shown since I copied the region files for the current map and deleted all chunks without torches; similarly, the rendering shown above only shows caves with torches in them):
While I did have a goal to find at least one of every type of cave added by my mod in my last world, and stopped playing it after I found and explored all of them (which took about 4 months of sessions spent just caving; 19 more were spent getting started, killing the Ender Dragon, and other "normal" Survival stuff, with caving saved for the "end-game"), I do not really have any goals in my first world, which is my longest-played world by far and the only world I've consistently played on for years, other than noting significant milestones as I approach/reach them, most recently mining a total of 2 million ore; just to give you another idea of how I play:
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
So, Minecraft to you is just caving, pretty much? This isn't meant to sound rude; I just feel like I'm missing something. Don't you enjoy building things, or exploring (though without mods exploring is pretty boring), or anything else?
Check out my suggestions! Here is one of them:
A lot of the fun of caving to me is the exploration aspect - you'll never know what you'll find next when going down a previously unexplored tunnel, and while there are only a few different underground features (caves, ravines, mineshafts, dungeons) each one is unique (a lot of people describe every cave as being the same but that is not true; for example, on this map you can see a couple large cave systems near the center, while to the east is an area with very few caves, south of that is a region resembling 1.7+ cave generation, and so on. Likewise, I've only found a few instances of 5 or more intersecting ravines and always wonder if I've found more whenever I find a new one).
My mods further enhance this by adding more cave variations - it took around 4 months of daily playing to find every one of them in my last world, I even added Notch apples to dungeon chests and diamond gear to some other chests for the excitement of finding such rare items (each rarer than Notch apples are in 1.9+).
Restricting yourself to finding new biomes and surface structures by exploring underground (aside from finding a stronghold) also makes finding them more exciting by effectively making them rarer (one reason why I particularly dislike the biome changes in 1.7 is because I'd never find most of them unless they were within a thousand blocks of spawn; even in my previous world I only explored an area equivalent to 2200x2200 blocks and that was my second-longest played world by a good margin. In fact, I've never found every biome added in my mods even across all four worlds I've made with them so far - including a couple added in the first version).
As far as building goes, this sums things up:
And certainly, most of my secondary bases are little more than cobblestone boxes with the bare necessities (chests, bed, food and wood farms, and in my first world, additional farms for emeralds, and villager trading posts if I built it in a village):
Though I have made more elaborate bases, including my main bases, which even have non-functional decoration, beyond the trees seen above (though are still basically just boxes):
My most recent base, which was built inside a village, is probably the only time I've built something that looks like a house, modeled after a village house:
Also, the entire reason why Minecraft is so popular is because you can play it however you like.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
omg that quartz house actually is better than mine ;-;
Personally, purely in terms of my nostalgia, I would play on anything older than 1.7, but not older than 1.4.7 (technically, I started playing PCMC in 1.4.6, but 1.4.7 came out shortly after, and I would usually prefer the latest patch of an update anyway); The Update that 'Changed' the World (which effectively turned continents into Pangaeas, by the way) and subsequent updates have only introduced more long-standing bugs, only one of them (repeating sounds upon closing a menu) being fixed the other year, and their features haven't been overly useful. Also, let's not forget that since 1.6, Mutton and other bells and whistles have been added, all without paying attention to balance (Though for example, as TMC mentioned, rail systems still have an advantage over horses for for example being able to go through smaller extreme hills quickly and more easily compared to the horse). You'd think with the game so big and therefore the potential for an even greater game from its indie beginnings, they'd obviously pay attention to balance and show some professionalism in it in general.
In terms of the level of fun while still being relaxed, I would prefer Beta 1.7.3. The terrain gen then, IMO, despite others' claims, was obviously better than the new one; terrain actually depended on biome - and still does despite 1.13's changes (but I could be wrong at least somewhat), and that is not the right way to play things if you're going for variety. In fact, the other year, I saw a screenshot of terrain that would've been in Beta 1.8, and some people literally remember being all hyped up for it, so that was quite a big upset for an optimistic community that still continues to this day.
Also, the old gen was actually reminiscent of the terrain in my MCPE beginnings; simple, fun, unique every time.
Although this is not directly related, the current version I would prefer is 1.5.2, because of Better than Wolves; it may literally be the only truly well-designed Minecraft mod out there, because most others contain a lot of bugs and oversights despite being 'official' or something like that, and of course can imbalance things. But it's equally important to note that most modders are just those with some programming experience and a willingness to share, so maybe the community should've never expected them to be 'professional' or anything like that, or actually make Minecraft 'good'. (In fact, I would feel guilty running any mod besides BTW because of the feeling of imbalance or just plain overcomplication.)
Even if I end up dying or quitting because of a bad situation, and feel like quitting BTW completely, I cannot stop coming back to it; it's that fun.
That actually proves I'm not one of those 'gamers' who enjoy a haphazardly put-together modpack or mod just because it seems 'fun', like many popular YouTubers (I'm amazed they even still enjoy such content), or play any other game in the same way. I'm actually 20 years old and was born in 1997, (so I'll be 21 this month), so I'm actually a Generation Y or Millennial, and having played games my whole life, I understand the concept of good gameplay balance, and me having considered Minecraft is no exception.
So that ends my argument. if you have anything to say or any questions, I'll be glad to answer back.
I always seem to be better at writing than verbal communication...
Since you mention Better than Wolves; my own mod "TheMasterCaver's World" is very similar; as with BTW, TMCW is largely based around how I think Mojang could have implemented newer features, like the atrocious "climate system" which forces you to search for a good seed unless you want to travel potentially thousands of blocks to find biomes which are significantly different from the ones you spawn in (here is a rendering of a world I recently played on). It also preserves a "universal ocean" type world while not having quite so much ocean by adding in smaller landmasses of varying size to oceans. And, of course, instead of nerfing the underground, a major part of the game, it adds more features (more variation in caves and new cave variants).
It even has my own version of the highly controversial 1.9 combat, designed around my combat style, which lets you attack multiple mobs as fast as you can accurately hit them (an upcoming version fixes the issue that you can spam-click empty air with no penalty, and lets you attack a single mob as fast as its damage immunity allows, instead of once per second with no penalty, though if you have a good enchanted sword this doesn't matter much). My version of Mending replaces renaming an item to keep its cost down instead of magically repairing them with XP (1.9's Mending also makes it too easy to get crazy overpowered gear with 5-6 enchantments and makes mining and anvils obsolete), and so on.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
That is very true, and being one of the more technically-minded people on the internet, your arguments are actually valid in comparison with most other players and general common sense.
I always seem to be better at writing than verbal communication...