So I thought I'd open up a conversation regarding various "ethics and morals" of Minecraft. There are numerous ideas and opinions upon how Survival mode is to be played. There are players who view automation as an evil, players who view things such as enchantments and potions as unreasonably op, making the game too easy or taking away from the survival aspect, and you have people who embrace the automation that comes with redstone and redstone contraptions.
So, Minecrafters, why don't we hold an open debate regarding some of these issues? Why should players not be inclined to build automatic farms, like crop, iron, and fish for example, and gather those resources manually? Or why should automation be a part of the game? Are there some things in the game you find too op? Are there limits to the use of xp grinders?
Please feel free to list your arguments, and remember, this is only a game, so nothing here really matters. Please be respectful of other people's opinions. :-)
It's all up to how people want to play the game. I mean, you can't stop someone from building an automated fish farm, nor can you prevent them from enchanting things.
I personally dislike AFK farms just because they break with every update, but that's just me. Some people like the mental challenge it poses.
I think it's the developers fault. They thought it was OK to have automation, potions, enchantments, etc., so of course some are going to use it to their advantage. You can't blame the players- blame the developers for allowing or putting that stuff in the game. We've all seen screams for "better armor" and "more powerful weapons". The developers caved in and added that stuff. It's there because "we" wanted (demanded) it. "We" just wanted to kill mobs easier.
What gets me is it's ok to add that stuff to OP the players- if it was done equally. Why didn't the mobs get 'full armor' and 'better weapons' also? That is what is killing the "survival" aspect of MC. As it stands now, the game is just too easy.
Fun fact - back in Beta diamond swords did 5 hearts of damage; guess how much a Sharpness V diamond sword does in 1.10? 5 hearts! There were also no mobs with more than 20 health so everything was a two-hit kill once you found a couple diamonds.
1.0.0 Beta 1.9-pre3 Swords have been nerfed to make way for enchanting. A diamond sword now deals 7 damage instead of 10.
Even before 1.9 the higher damage (up to 14.25) still had little effect on how quickly you could kill mobs (anything up to 19.999 damage would still need 2 hits; most mobs with less health like spiders are also weak) And there were no armored mobs either, not even intrinsic armor points (this is why you need 3 hits and not 2 to kill a zombie unless one is critical). I'm not sure what "full armor" means either unless you mean mobs with diamond armor, which was made rare for a reason (albeit a 0.04% chance, just for mobs that have armor, is a bit too rare).
And really, what fun is it if you die all the time? Especially from cheap shots like insta-kill creepers, which was such a bad idea that Mojang was forced to undo some of the armor nerfs in 1.9 (in fact, this post about bad suggestions includes that as a bad example of a suggestion, under "extreme hardcore"). Indeed, i would not even wear as much armor as I do if they did not deal such high damage (and even then it is not the best you can get, averaging worse than full unenchanted diamond, aside from giving me better protection against fall damage).
I also consider enchantments to be absolutely essential, as well as anvils; how would I ever mine all of this without them (at least not within 98 days(!) of playtime)?
Imagine the number of diamond pickaxes, or even iron, I would require just to mine that much coal. Not that longer-lasting tools (Unbreaking III) even makes much of a difference; all the iron pickaxes (4191) I'd have needed would have used barely over one percent of the iron I've mined, about twice that when including all blocks; the proportion of diamond would be much higher, around 50% to mine every block - without using Fortune (diamonds were also more common in Beta). It is far more convenient though when you don't need to craft a new pickaxe every few minutes, and mine faster (Efficiency). The same applies to weapons and armor; I still play in 1.6.4, before Mojang nerfed mobs (smaller sight range for zombies to reduce lag (I fixed it with by actually addressing the root of the problem), regional difficulty changes (no effect at all unless it is at least 2 instead of starting from 0), altered mob cap calculations (around 12% less mobs, not very noticeable, but still), mobs in 1.8+ take a short time to notice you (reported as a bug but marked as WAI), etc) and even with a sword that kills them in two hits I still spend a good amount of time killing hundreds of mobs per play session.
There is nothing wrong with taking full advantage of mechanics in the game....or not doing so to increase the challenge for yourself. The problem is when you try telling others how they're playing is wrong or cheating.
For example I to this day don't use beds. I survived in early beta without them and I feel like they remove a facet of gameplay that I came to enjoy.
As for mob traps, those are always going to exist. Back in beta I used to think that the developers could make it more difficult by introducing more variety in the mob models/types. But now we have baby zombies that can spawn anywhere the other mobs can and fit through one block holes but mob traps still thrive. I suppose if they made a mob that water couldn't move that would create a pretty big hiccup for a lot of designs.
Honestly, I like it when things are harder, but The special things they added aren't OP. you can't have a wooden sword & a normal bow with only 5 arrows & defeat the ender dragon. I even have a automated redstone farm where when my crops are done, they drop into hoppers. but would you like it if we suddenly lived as amish people? (no offense to ones who are amish)
everybody likes the game better is they have more ways to kill the creatures of the night, the beasts of the Nether, & the fighters of the known-since-1.9 End. Imagine 1.11 & you found a mansion and decided to explore it. & the only thing you had was an iron sword, chain leggings from a zombie, a stack of raw meat, and two apples. do you think you could still defeat all those super-hard mobs in there with only THAT stuff? I'm not criticizing this conversation, but the things added into minecraft since 1.8 are fine with me.
Hello Kiddies...
So I thought I'd open up a conversation regarding various "ethics and morals" of Minecraft. There are numerous ideas and opinions upon how Survival mode is to be played. There are players who view automation as an evil, players who view things such as enchantments and potions as unreasonably op, making the game too easy or taking away from the survival aspect, and you have people who embrace the automation that comes with redstone and redstone contraptions.
So, Minecrafters, why don't we hold an open debate regarding some of these issues? Why should players not be inclined to build automatic farms, like crop, iron, and fish for example, and gather those resources manually? Or why should automation be a part of the game? Are there some things in the game you find too op? Are there limits to the use of xp grinders?
Please feel free to list your arguments, and remember, this is only a game, so nothing here really matters. Please be respectful of other people's opinions. :-)
It's all up to how people want to play the game. I mean, you can't stop someone from building an automated fish farm, nor can you prevent them from enchanting things.
I personally dislike AFK farms just because they break with every update, but that's just me. Some people like the mental challenge it poses.
I think it's the developers fault. They thought it was OK to have automation, potions, enchantments, etc., so of course some are going to use it to their advantage. You can't blame the players- blame the developers for allowing or putting that stuff in the game. We've all seen screams for "better armor" and "more powerful weapons". The developers caved in and added that stuff. It's there because "we" wanted (demanded) it. "We" just wanted to kill mobs easier.
What gets me is it's ok to add that stuff to OP the players- if it was done equally. Why didn't the mobs get 'full armor' and 'better weapons' also? That is what is killing the "survival" aspect of MC. As it stands now, the game is just too easy.
Fun fact - back in Beta diamond swords did 5 hearts of damage; guess how much a Sharpness V diamond sword does in 1.10? 5 hearts! There were also no mobs with more than 20 health so everything was a two-hit kill once you found a couple diamonds.
Even before 1.9 the higher damage (up to 14.25) still had little effect on how quickly you could kill mobs (anything up to 19.999 damage would still need 2 hits; most mobs with less health like spiders are also weak) And there were no armored mobs either, not even intrinsic armor points (this is why you need 3 hits and not 2 to kill a zombie unless one is critical). I'm not sure what "full armor" means either unless you mean mobs with diamond armor, which was made rare for a reason (albeit a 0.04% chance, just for mobs that have armor, is a bit too rare).
And really, what fun is it if you die all the time? Especially from cheap shots like insta-kill creepers, which was such a bad idea that Mojang was forced to undo some of the armor nerfs in 1.9 (in fact, this post about bad suggestions includes that as a bad example of a suggestion, under "extreme hardcore"). Indeed, i would not even wear as much armor as I do if they did not deal such high damage (and even then it is not the best you can get, averaging worse than full unenchanted diamond, aside from giving me better protection against fall damage).
I also consider enchantments to be absolutely essential, as well as anvils; how would I ever mine all of this without them (at least not within 98 days(!) of playtime)?
Imagine the number of diamond pickaxes, or even iron, I would require just to mine that much coal. Not that longer-lasting tools (Unbreaking III) even makes much of a difference; all the iron pickaxes (4191) I'd have needed would have used barely over one percent of the iron I've mined, about twice that when including all blocks; the proportion of diamond would be much higher, around 50% to mine every block - without using Fortune (diamonds were also more common in Beta). It is far more convenient though when you don't need to craft a new pickaxe every few minutes, and mine faster (Efficiency). The same applies to weapons and armor; I still play in 1.6.4, before Mojang nerfed mobs (smaller sight range for zombies to reduce lag (I fixed it with by actually addressing the root of the problem), regional difficulty changes (no effect at all unless it is at least 2 instead of starting from 0), altered mob cap calculations (around 12% less mobs, not very noticeable, but still), mobs in 1.8+ take a short time to notice you (reported as a bug but marked as WAI), etc) and even with a sword that kills them in two hits I still spend a good amount of time killing hundreds of mobs per play session.
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
There is nothing wrong with taking full advantage of mechanics in the game....or not doing so to increase the challenge for yourself. The problem is when you try telling others how they're playing is wrong or cheating.
For example I to this day don't use beds. I survived in early beta without them and I feel like they remove a facet of gameplay that I came to enjoy.
As for mob traps, those are always going to exist. Back in beta I used to think that the developers could make it more difficult by introducing more variety in the mob models/types. But now we have baby zombies that can spawn anywhere the other mobs can and fit through one block holes but mob traps still thrive. I suppose if they made a mob that water couldn't move that would create a pretty big hiccup for a lot of designs.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Ugh, politics...*shudders* I've had more than my fill of that lately.
I don't automate because...
1. I don't have the time or patience for that
2. Mob grinders are eyesores to me
3. I don't need that many resources; I have more than enough with doing everything by hand
4. Redstone isn't my strong suit
5. Automation feels too cold, industrial, and modern for the rustic little homesteads in my worlds
I have nothing against folks who like to automate, though. To each their own.
Insulting people for their beliefs is not a good way of convincing them to adopt yours.
Fiction is just a game of make-believe recorded on paper or film. But that's what makes it so great.
Hipster Jesus liked you before you were cool.
Honestly, I like it when things are harder, but The special things they added aren't OP. you can't have a wooden sword & a normal bow with only 5 arrows & defeat the ender dragon. I even have a automated redstone farm where when my crops are done, they drop into hoppers. but would you like it if we suddenly lived as amish people? (no offense to ones who are amish)
everybody likes the game better is they have more ways to kill the creatures of the night, the beasts of the Nether, & the fighters of the known-since-1.9 End. Imagine 1.11 & you found a mansion and decided to explore it. & the only thing you had was an iron sword, chain leggings from a zombie, a stack of raw meat, and two apples. do you think you could still defeat all those super-hard mobs in there with only THAT stuff? I'm not criticizing this conversation, but the things added into minecraft since 1.8 are fine with me.
~Luna