Current question: why on Earth are you arguing with me? All I said was I'm okay with children playing on servers. All children are immature, therefore I have no problem with chidren acting immaturely. Children acting immaturely is not the same as them being rude, and I didn't say being rude was okay.
Immaturity: "behaviour that is appropriate to someone younger"
Have you ever met a single child on Earth that isn't immature?
Oh my sweet heavens! You go on this massive rant about not making generalizations and round it out by concluding your argument with a GENERALIZATION. It's like... Oh jeez, the hypocrisy is so strong it's hard for me to make a good comparison... Let's see, it's like something Donald Trump would drop during one of his speeches, honestly. Even if you meant well, youre conclusion makes or breaks the argument, it's something they teach in middle school English classes. And your conclusion, ohohoh, it broke your argument into a thousand little broken thought shards.
The fact is, not all children are immature, not all are by even a long shot. Sure, a vast, vast majority might be by some standards, but there are also children who have their lives is such straight order they make me, a grow man look bad. The fact of the matter is, people mature at different points (And some never do, to be fair), and some people do at a very young age. So no, not all children are immature, "them's the facts", and as always generalizations don't fit well almost 100% of the time. And sure, that may be what you were arguing, but your argument began to fall apart around "What, why are you generalising?" and was 100% broken at "All children are immature though. That's not always bad. These are sweeping generalisations." Although I must say at the point you were throwing out "I didn't say they do. What is this?" your argument started to sound a little... Immature?
"No generalisations, just science. Peace! "
And this argument, no matter how well backed, is still a poor one. A generalization is tagging a single attribute to an entire group, without a completely proven basis. The fact of the matter is, there will ALWAYS be an exception to the generalization. That's just a matter of fact, and if you want me to use your own terminology, it's "just science".
Anyway, I just thought about this. Could be our fault that children act on servers? I mean the behavior that we hate is picked up online somewhere. Maybe not our fault, bur definitely someone who's our age 'teach' these kids to act this way.
Oh my sweet heavens! You go on this massive rant about not making generalizations and round it out by concluding your argument with a GENERALIZATION. It's like... Oh jeez, the hypocrisy is so strong it's hard for me to make a good comparison... Let's see, it's like something Donald Trump would drop during one of his speeches, honestly. Even if you meant well, youre conclusion makes or breaks the argument, it's something they teach in middle school English classes. And your conclusion, ohohoh, it broke your argument into a thousand little broken thought shards.
The fact is, not all children are immature, not all are by even a long shot. Sure, a vast, vast majority might be by some standards, but there are also children who have their lives is such straight order they make me, a grow man look bad. The fact of the matter is, people mature at different points (And some never do, to be fair), and some people do at a very young age. So no, not all children are immature, "them's the facts", and as always generalizations don't fit well almost 100% of the time. And sure, that may be what you were arguing, but your argument began to fall apart around "What, why are you generalising?" and was 100% broken at "All children are immature though. That's not always bad. These are sweeping generalisations." Although I must say at the point you were throwing out "I didn't say they do. What is this?" your argument started to sound a little... Immature?
"No generalisations, just science. Peace! "
And this argument, no matter how well backed, is still a poor one. A generalization is tagging a single attribute to an entire group, without a completely proven basis. The fact of the matter is, there will ALWAYS be an exception to the generalization. That's just a matter of fact, and if you want me to use your own terminology, it's "just science".
How old are you?
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Oh my sweet heavens! You go on this massive rant about not making generalizations and round it out by concluding your argument with a GENERALIZATION. It's like... Oh jeez, the hypocrisy is so strong it's hard for me to make a good comparison... Let's see, it's like something Donald Trump would drop during one of his speeches, honestly. Even if you meant well, youre conclusion makes or breaks the argument, it's something they teach in middle school English classes. And your conclusion, ohohoh, it broke your argument into a thousand little broken thought shards.
The fact is, not all children are immature, not all are by even a long shot. Sure, a vast, vast majority might be by some standards, but there are also children who have their lives is such straight order they make me, a grow man look bad. The fact of the matter is, people mature at different points (And some never do, to be fair), and some people do at a very young age. So no, not all children are immature, "them's the facts", and as always generalizations don't fit well almost 100% of the time. And sure, that may be what you were arguing, but your argument began to fall apart around "What, why are you generalising?" and was 100% broken at "All children are immature though. That's not always bad. These are sweeping generalisations." Although I must say at the point you were throwing out "I didn't say they do. What is this?" your argument started to sound a little... Immature?
"No generalisations, just science. Peace! "
And this argument, no matter how well backed, is still a poor one. A generalization is tagging a single attribute to an entire group, without a completely proven basis. The fact of the matter is, there will ALWAYS be an exception to the generalization. That's just a matter of fact, and if you want me to use your own terminology, it's "just science".
If me saying that no 8 year old on the planet has a fully developed brain is a sweeping generalization, then yes, I'm making sweeping generalizations.
But it's true. I literally just gave you all of the science. Not all rules have exceptions. The sun rises every day - is there an exception to that rule? All Japanese people are Asian. Is that a sweeping generalisation? I'm tagging a single attribute to an entire group with a proven basis. I don't know where you're getting the impression that I'm not, do you think I'm just making it up as I go along? I already said that some children are more mature than some adults in some aspects, but they're still immature. No brain is fully developed at 8 years old, and if you think otherwise you're simply ignorant and there's nothing I can say to you. That's not me trying to be rude, it's a fact.
Why do you even care? The whole point of the argument was that immaturity is normal and acceptable in children, it is not a bad thing. Do you contest this?
For the most part, I'm cool with anyone of any age playing Minecraft. As long as they're nice, follow the rules of the server, and don't go out of their way to annoy me and/or others, I don't care if they're eight, eighteen, or eighty. They're totally cool in my book. On the other hand, if they're totally rude, break a lot of rules, and constantly try to annoy others, I want nothing to do with them. Age simply is not an excuse for flat out rude behavior. If someone just isn't old or mature enough to know what's nice and what isn't, they probably aren't ready for online gaming. If someone knowingly breaks the rules, they should be punished, regardless of their age. Saying that they don't know better because they're just kids is not an excuse when the rules are clearly stated (and most of the fair servers tend to give out at least one warning before punishment so it's clear that they are aware of the rules). If you can be nice and follow the rules, I have no issues with you whatsoever. If you're going to go out of your way just to be rude, annoying, and break the rules, you deserve whatever sort of punishments you get.
Why do you even care? The whole point of the argument was that immaturity is normal and acceptable in children, it is not a bad thing. Do you contest this?
Why do you even care? The whole point of the argument was that immaturity is normal and acceptable in children, it is not a bad thing. Do you contest this?
But please don't flame bait me.
In one hundred percent honest truth, with no intent in being a "troll" or "flame bait" you, I do actually contest it. The type of immaturity at hand here is the obnoxious, rude, needless immaturity which gives the younger minecraft community a bad name. You are trying to make it about "immaturity" as a whole, which I understand, but it isn't what the entirety of the topic is. Yes, if a kid in a server messes up and they admit to it, pay the price, and most importantly apologize whole heartedly, they yes, they did something immature, but they are NOT the type of immature we are discussing here. The type of immature at hand is the bratty, self-assured kid who goes in a server, annihilates everything they see, and then proceed to say "well what did you expect, I'm just a kid! lulz!"
So yes, you're 100% correct, a child's brain isn't fully developed, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Even a child with NO brain can not act like a twit on servers, and are there not the type of immature this entire argument is about. Now please take your scientific facts, and find me a relevant fact that explains why some kids are complete jerks for no reason, and others aren't. Is it because they're immature? Well EVERY child's brain isn't fully developed, so why isn't "Jimmy" a jerk like "Todd" is? Oh, is it because Todd is "immature", meaning he isn't acting like someone should in a social environment? Well Jimmy is a child, shouldn't he act the same? After all, all kids are immature!
The fact of the matter is, you made a statement which was too general, too thoughtless, even if your intentions were good at the time, and now instead of just paying up and accepting, you're playing the "Well science says 'X' so I'm right!" card, which is typically what people do when they either A.) don't want to accept that they made a mistake or B.)Have a compulsion to right 100% of the time, which is a battle you CAN NOT WIN. You can be wrong and take it laying down, it's not a bad thing, it's just plain humility. I'm sorry if this is coming off liek the "flame bait" you requested I not sling at you, but I really cannot justify any of what you have said, because you're making a generalization that, which technically "true", is not a catch-all, 100% right every time fact when, based on the context given, takes a phrase coined to deem the bratty behavior which some children exhibit, with a more literal "They're not fully developed yet" take.
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Oh, boy...
Anyway, on to my thing. Thinking about it even more, I can imagine how bad I would be for the community when I was younger. I was a total doormat online and was a bit too innocent... No, I wouldn't be bad for the community,some members of the community would be bad for me.
I think as younger generations play more games online, parents need to realize that they need to understand what their child is doing. Many really don't. What the child is essentially doing is talking and interacting with strangers. You don't do that in real life, so what makes it better to do it anonymously?
New final verdict. Children can go online in games, as long as voice chat is a no go. But limited text chat I am absolutely okay with. Wait until they are, like thirteen to let them use voice chat and unlimited text.
Rant over, sorry if this went off topic but I feel like online interactions are a huge part of Minecraft.
But it's true. I literally just gave you all of the science. Not all rules have exceptions. The sun rises every day - is there an exception to that rule? All Japanese people are Asian. Is that a sweeping generalisation?
You did that.
Comooon Caae. I thought you were better than that. But you just replied to his saying "All rules have exceptions" while you were both having a discussion on human personality, and then you gave him examples that were so sweeping and vague and as far from human personality and development as possible. When you give an example to prove something, pleeease make sure that example actually has to do with the discussion!
And if you tell me something to the effect of "Well he said there were no exceptions to ANYTHING so I told him things that don't have exceptions!" Then I will kindly kick your butt back to our big discussion on armor, where I did practically the same thing with the tier list junk and you were furious.
(Also cause its fun, there ARE exceptions to those rules you gave. The sun WILL stop rising one day, when in a billion billion years it sputters out. And not all Japanese people are Asian, I know some people with Japanese heritage that were born in America, and therefore American.
See? I just gotta take your rules as loosely as possible )
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The type of immaturity at hand here is the obnoxious, rude, needless immaturity which gives the younger minecraft community a bad name. You are trying to make it about "immaturity" as a whole, which I understand, but it isn't what the entirety of the topic is. Yes, if a kid in a server messes up and they admit to it, pay the price, and most importantly apologize whole heartedly, they yes, they did something immature, but they are NOT the type of immature we are discussing here. The type of immature at hand is the bratty, self-assured kid who goes in a server, annihilates everything they see, and then proceed to say "well what did you expect, I'm just a kid! lulz!"
But the reason they do this is that they're children. Most of them will grow up embarrassed at ever having done that. I'm not saying they should have no responsibility for their actions, I'm saying they have a right to play the game and if you don't like playing with them, there's the door.
So yes, you're 100% correct, a child's brain isn't fully developed, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Even a child with NO brain can not act like a twit on servers, and are there not the type of immature this entire argument is about. Now please take your scientific facts, and find me a relevant fact that explains why some kids are complete jerks for no reason, and others aren't.
Is it because they're immature? Well EVERY child's brain isn't fully developed, so why isn't "Jimmy" a jerk like "Todd" is?
Because... Some are more immature than others?
Oh, is it because Todd is "immature", meaning he isn't acting like someone should in a social environment? Well Jimmy is a child, shouldn't he act the same? After all, all kids are immature!
Some are more immature than others? Actually read what I say and don't start changing it. I said multiple times that some are more mature than others. This is just getting pathetic.
The fact of the matter is, you made a statement which was too general, too thoughtless, even if your intentions were good at the time, and now instead of just paying up and accepting, you're playing the "Well science says 'X' so I'm right!" card, which is typically what people do when they either A.) don't want to accept that they made a mistake or B.)Have a compulsion to right 100% of the time, which is a battle you CAN NOT WIN. You can be wrong and take it laying down, it's not a bad thing, it's just plain humility.
But I'm not wrong. All children are immature. You even agreed before in saying that no child has a fully developed brain. That is what immaturity is. Is this just going to turn into one of those arguments where I bring up scientifically backed points and you say "wow look at this guy he can't admit he's wrong"?
I'm sorry if this is coming off liek the "flame bait" you requested I not sling at you, but I really cannot justify any of what you have said, because you're making a generalization that, which technically "true", is not a catch-all, 100% right every time fact when, based on the context given, takes a phrase coined to deem the bratty behavior which some children exhibit, with a more literal "They're not fully developed yet" take.
But children are bratty because they're not fully mature. Yes, they shouldn't be bratty. They should be brought up by their parents to not be and perhaps their parents need to teach them a few lessons. I'm merely explaining why they're that way, nothing more and nothing less. I just said all children are immature (which is true) as the explanation as to why some children are bratty online. It was a throwaway line but it wasn't wrong. I wasn't saying all children are equally immature or equally bratty, now can you stop wasting my time?
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But the reason they do this is that they're children. Most of them will grow up embarrassed at ever having done that. I'm not saying they should have no responsibility for their actions, I'm saying they have a right to play the game and if you don't like playing with them, there's the door.
Because... Some are more immature than others?
Some are more immature than others? Actually read what I say and don't start changing it. I said multiple times that some are more mature than others. This is just getting pathetic.
But I'm not wrong. All children are immature. You even agreed before in saying that no child has a fully developed brain. That is what immaturity is. Is this just going to turn into one of those arguments where I bring up scientifically backed points and you say "wow look at this guy he can't admit he's wrong"?
But children are bratty because they're not fully mature. Yes, they shouldn't be bratty. They should be brought up by their parents to not be and perhaps their parents need to teach them a few lessons. I'm merely explaining why they're that way, nothing more and nothing less. I just said all children are immature (which is true) as the explanation as to why some children are bratty online. It was a throwaway line but it wasn't wrong. I wasn't saying all children are equally immature or equally bratty, now can you stop wasting my time?
would give a whole big reason why "this and that", but right now I'm just too tired and frankly too stressed out because of work, so I'm gonna have to do bullet points to address these problems...
A.)Never said I had a problem playing with children, I suppose it's my turn to say "Actually read what I say and don't start changing it". I actually enjoy playing on servers with my nephews who are, surprise surprise, kids. Yet they don't act like dinguses because they're mentally mature. Not physically mature, they're young of course, but they ARE mature. MENTALLY.
B.)Nice way to divert the attention from the argument by calling me names. My 6 year old nephew does that a lot too and it works well for him.
C.)On the actual issue at hand, not just children are immature, so I can 100% say that it's NOT just because they're children. Some adults never get their ability to not be immature, and the type of immaturity at hand is a PERSONALITY issue and not a developmental one.
D.)Sure, all children aren't "Mature" in the meaning that they're fully developed, but the fact is "maturity" here is a state of mind, and no amount of growing can fix a broken mind, it's just part of nature. If they act like that a child, there's a chance it's just gonna keep on like that until someone bigger and more mature beats the maturity in to them.
Now I have to go back to work, so please kindly have a good day, I really, REALLY hope you can see the differences in the issue at hand rather than stubbornly drive your point in. Especially since I'm not the only one trying to bring to light why your driving home a point that, while correct, is irrelevant because you took things too literal and tried to make this about physical maturity rather than the mental maturity this entire discussion was about to begin with.
Enough with this maturity argument. This conversation appears to have moved well away from the simple topic of discussing thoughts on kids playing minecraft and is very close to being locked.
. Especially since I'm not the only one trying to bring to light why your driving home a point that, while correct, is irrelevant because you took things too literal and tried to make this about physical maturity rather than the mental maturity this entire discussion was about to begin with.
Me and Game here had a big discussion on Discord about it. Took a while, and was a bit confusing, but we found a common ground. So I guess we will see what happens.
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Enough with this maturity argument. This conversation appears to have moved well away from the simple topic of discussing thoughts on kids playing minecraft and is very close to being locked.
Opening statement: hopefully this post restores faith that this discussion is on-topic. I'm writing this after writing up the rest of this post.
I do believe the discussion is relevant and links back to the topic, as I've tried to clarify in this post. This whole chain of discussion on maturity was just, in my eyes, a misunderstanding regarding what I said in my original post which directly responded to the OP. I was just trying to explain and expand upon what I meant in that post, which I think is important to the thread as a whole. Hopefully I'm not just digging myself into a deeper hole here, it's just that I do feel strongly about this.
And if all of those posts were off-topic, hopefully this one can be considered on-topic, as I link it back to the original question and explain my feelings about it multiple times. The hope, of course, is that this can bring a close to the possibly-off-topic discussion and give us all a bit of closure and clear up some misunderstandings.
I'm not going to argue my point any longer if Anon disagrees, I'm just explaining what I meant in my other posts so that people have a better understanding of what my opinion on the main question actually is.
A.)Never said I had a problem playing with children, I suppose it's my turn to say "Actually read what I say and don't start changing it"
I didn't say you don't like playing with them, I said if. It was supposed to be a general statement targeted at anyone.
I actually enjoy playing on servers with my nephews who are, surprise surprise, kids. Yet they don't act like dinguses because they're mentally mature. Not physically mature, they're young of course, but they ARE mature. MENTALLY.
I think we have a misunderstanding here. When I say they're immature, I mean that their brains are literally not fully grown. Therefore, mentally, they are literally immature, because their brains are not fully developed. That's how I was using the word mature. Some may act more mature than others and even than some adults, but in a literal sense, compared to how they will be when they are adults, they are immature. That's the definition I was using when I wrote my initial post.
I was trying to say that all children are immature, i.e. no child is fully developed mentally, and thus they are more prone to say and do silly, immature things on Minecraft servers than adults (on average). I wasn't trying to say all children on Minecraft servers act like the annoying ones you see on YouTube videos. Sorry if I caused a misunderstanding there.
B.)Nice way to divert the attention from the argument by calling me names. My 6 year old nephew does that a lot too and it works well for him.
Are you trying to say I'm acting like a 6 year old? Is this necessary?
C.)On the actual issue at hand, not just children are immature, so I can 100% say that it's NOT just because they're children. Some adults never get their ability to not be immature, and the type of immaturity at hand is a PERSONALITY issue and not a developmental one.
I was using immature in a very literal sense in order to get the idea across that they are more likely, on average, to do dumb, immature things on MC servers than adults.
D.)Sure, all children aren't "Mature" in the meaning that they're fully developed, but the fact is "maturity" here is a state of mind, and no amount of growing can fix a broken mind, it's just part of nature. If they act like that a child, there's a chance it's just gonna keep on like that until someone bigger and more mature beats the maturity in to them.
This isn't the kind of maturity I was talking about when I made my post. And to clarify, my original post was targeted at the OP and was not arguing with anybody specific and their definition.
So overall, I hope I've clarified my point a bit. All I was trying to say is that children are more likely to cause problems on MC servers because they are not fully matured yet (all children will be more mature at 30 than at 8, obviously), and we should not always be too harsh about it. That's all I was saying and I think you misunderstood me - I was not trying to say that all children act like the brats on some Minecraft servers, and I was not trying to say they should get a 'get out of jail free' card.
If you disagree with what I've said even after these clarifications, I'll absolutely discuss it further in PM.
Do you own the server? Because if you don't, you have no right. If you don't like it leave. It's pretty simple, telling other people to leave will just cause more problems. You have no right to dictate who can and can't play on any random Minecraft server, that's just disrespectful.
Why are you talking about causing problems in the community? I thought we were talking about children. This thread is about children. What, why are you generalising?
All children are immature though. That's not always bad. These are sweeping generalisations.
I didn't say it was?
What would be bad etiquette is telling them to leave when they have just as much right to play as you do. Leave it to the owners, it's not your job to say who can and can't play.
I didn't say they do. What is this?
Why are you talking to me then?
I didn't say they should...
Current question: why on Earth are you arguing with me? All I said was I'm okay with children playing on servers. All children are immature, therefore I have no problem with chidren acting immaturely. Children acting immaturely is not the same as them being rude, and I didn't say being rude was okay.
Immaturity: "behaviour that is appropriate to someone younger"
Have you ever met a single child on Earth that isn't immature?
Ok then, I was going to reply to your argument on maturity, but back on topic like the Moderator said. I stand by what I said in my original reply to you. In the reply above you completely twisted up what I said and clearly did not understand some of my points, and acted as if I was making accusations when I clearly wasn't. If I continue this here though, the thread will probably be locked, so if you do want to continue, Private Message me please. My final thoughts on kids playing minecraft: If they are on a server, they had better be a good member that doesn't cause problems in a community, otherwise they need to be kicked off, and if that's the case I will tell them they need to leave, and I wholeheartedly commend anybody else who is willing to tell them to beat it, or the moderator who does kick them off, and this goes for any age, but this thread is about children.
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Ok then, I was going to reply to your argument on maturity, but back on topic like the Moderator said. I stand by what I said in my original reply to you. In the reply above you completely twisted up what I said and clearly did not understand some of my points, and acted as if I was making accusations when I clearly wasn't.
Well then I didn't try to do any of that, and I apologise.
If I continue this here though, the thread will probably be locked, so if you do want to continue, Private Message me please.
I've already read this post, this discussion looks pretty on-topic to me.
My final thoughts on kids playing minecraft: If they are on a server, they had better be a good member that doesn't cause problems in a community, otherwise they need to be kicked off, and if that's the case I will tell them they need to leave, and I wholeheartedly commend anybody else who is willing to tell them to beat it, or the moderator who does kick them off, and this goes for any age, but this thread is about children.
I agree with this, mostly. Let me just clarify what I was saying before. Yes, if a child is being immature and ruining a mature community, they should leave. But you specifically telling them to leave, as a normal player, is just going to cause problems because doing that is not your responsibility, and that will cause drama when you could just let a staff member deal with it. It's an issue on forums too, it's calling 'mini-modding' and it just makes things worse for everyone. To explain it briefly, you can't actually make them leave by yourself, so if you tell them to leave they're obviously not going to leave. In fact, they'll just say something rude back to you, and you get nowhere, you just make the toxicity worse, right? Usually, the best course of action in this situation is to ask a moderator (via a PM if the server allows it) to kick them out. Otherwise, whatever they're doing that you don't like, they'll just do more. They like attention.
But overall, to summarise my response to this thread in a hopefully more useful way: I do not have a problem with children playing on Minecraft servers. Them acting immaturely is to be expected, because they are children, and are therefore immature by definition (yes, I know some act maturely). Still, if they break rules, they absolutely should be banned. I don't think children should have a 'just a kid' shield and I apologise if my posts came off that way. I know plenty of children who act immaturely but who are not rude, I wasn't trying to use the word immature to mean bad, just to mean childish. I've played with plenty of people a lot younger than me, and it's pretty obvious they are younger because they certainly don't act like adults, but they are perfectly nice people and I'm perfectly happy to play with them.
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Having played with just about every age "range" in numerous games, I find that it is more important to have respect more so than "maturity". If they treat people with some basic respect, then they'll get it in return. If they are being treated poorly, then they need to try and find a solution to the problem, either by notifying a mod/admin or, just ignoring them/leaving the game. The moment they start having a tantrum and yell, kick, spew profanities and such is when they become annoying brat's that need to be hit with a ban-hammer.
Having played with just about every age "range" in numerous games, I find that it is more important to have respect more so than "maturity". If they treat people with some basic respect, then they'll get it in return. If they are being treated poorly, then they need to try and find a solution to the problem, either by notifying someone or, just ignoring them/leaving the game. The moment they start having a tantrum and yell, kick, spew profanities and such is when they become annoying brat's that need to be hit with a ban-hammer.
Let's admit, teens can be just as annoying, in the same ways... Or worse ways. x)
Having played with just about every age "range" in numerous games, I find that it is more important to have respect more so than "maturity". If they treat people with some basic respect, then they'll get it in return. If they are being treated poorly, then they need to try and find a solution to the problem, either by notifying someone or, just ignoring them/leaving the game. The moment they start having a tantrum and yell, kick, spew profanities and such is when they become annoying brat's that need to be hit with a ban-hammer.
Absolutely. I think respect is probably a more accurate word to describe what these people need. Especially since the word maturity has caused way too much contention in this thread.
But yes, respect is probably the defining factor now I think about it. It's like the magic word I hadn't thought of. I suppose that's what makes the difference between immature and annoying brat.
We've settled it people! Give this man a medal.
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Absolutely. I think respect is probably a more accurate word to describe what these people need. Especially since the word maturity has caused way too much contention in this thread.
But yes, respect is probably the defining factor now I think about it. It's like the magic word I hadn't thought of. I suppose that's what makes the difference between immature and annoying brat.
We've settled it people! Give this man a medal.
It's not the only thing people need, but it can get someone pretty darn far, in just about any situation.
I know a very quiet kid who loves MC because it gives him a chance to be a bully instead of being bullied. He is an equal opportunity griefer. Lava is his specialty. Does he get a kick out of griefing big builds and looting and trashing or burning bases? You bet! he's only 9 years old and for the past 2 years he's griefed several Survival servers. How did he learn this behavior? By watching the "older" MC players on those servers his father allowed him to play on.
I play on several Anarchy servers, where just about anything goes. None of my confederates are as systematically ruthless as the younger players on Vanilla Survival sites. This is definitely not LEGOS. MC has evolved into a training mechanism for the end-of-days fear and belief that pervades the worldwide Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Environmental communities. The only decision parents and adults need to consider re MC is whether they want their children to develop these skills or not.
Personally, I think they may be necessary before they become grandparents.
Oh my sweet heavens! You go on this massive rant about not making generalizations and round it out by concluding your argument with a GENERALIZATION. It's like... Oh jeez, the hypocrisy is so strong it's hard for me to make a good comparison... Let's see, it's like something Donald Trump would drop during one of his speeches, honestly. Even if you meant well, youre conclusion makes or breaks the argument, it's something they teach in middle school English classes. And your conclusion, ohohoh, it broke your argument into a thousand little broken thought shards.
The fact is, not all children are immature, not all are by even a long shot. Sure, a vast, vast majority might be by some standards, but there are also children who have their lives is such straight order they make me, a grow man look bad. The fact of the matter is, people mature at different points (And some never do, to be fair), and some people do at a very young age. So no, not all children are immature, "them's the facts", and as always generalizations don't fit well almost 100% of the time. And sure, that may be what you were arguing, but your argument began to fall apart around "What, why are you generalising?" and was 100% broken at "All children are immature though. That's not always bad. These are sweeping generalisations." Although I must say at the point you were throwing out "I didn't say they do. What is this?" your argument started to sound a little... Immature?
"No generalisations, just science. Peace!
"
And this argument, no matter how well backed, is still a poor one. A generalization is tagging a single attribute to an entire group, without a completely proven basis. The fact of the matter is, there will ALWAYS be an exception to the generalization. That's just a matter of fact, and if you want me to use your own terminology, it's "just science".
Helping raise Dragons
isn't a huge pain! Just
give 'em a click!
Evil is a relative term, my child.
Anyway, I just thought about this. Could be our fault that children act on servers? I mean the behavior that we hate is picked up online somewhere. Maybe not our fault, bur definitely someone who's our age 'teach' these kids to act this way.
Giant👏 Meteor👏 2020👏
How old are you?
A God that holds you over the pit of Hell, much as one holds a spider or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked. - Jonathan Edwards
If me saying that no 8 year old on the planet has a fully developed brain is a sweeping generalization, then yes, I'm making sweeping generalizations.
But it's true. I literally just gave you all of the science. Not all rules have exceptions. The sun rises every day - is there an exception to that rule? All Japanese people are Asian. Is that a sweeping generalisation? I'm tagging a single attribute to an entire group with a proven basis. I don't know where you're getting the impression that I'm not, do you think I'm just making it up as I go along? I already said that some children are more mature than some adults in some aspects, but they're still immature. No brain is fully developed at 8 years old, and if you think otherwise you're simply ignorant and there's nothing I can say to you. That's not me trying to be rude, it's a fact.
Why do you even care? The whole point of the argument was that immaturity is normal and acceptable in children, it is not a bad thing. Do you contest this?
But please don't flame bait me.
For the most part, I'm cool with anyone of any age playing Minecraft. As long as they're nice, follow the rules of the server, and don't go out of their way to annoy me and/or others, I don't care if they're eight, eighteen, or eighty. They're totally cool in my book. On the other hand, if they're totally rude, break a lot of rules, and constantly try to annoy others, I want nothing to do with them. Age simply is not an excuse for flat out rude behavior. If someone just isn't old or mature enough to know what's nice and what isn't, they probably aren't ready for online gaming. If someone knowingly breaks the rules, they should be punished, regardless of their age. Saying that they don't know better because they're just kids is not an excuse when the rules are clearly stated (and most of the fair servers tend to give out at least one warning before punishment so it's clear that they are aware of the rules). If you can be nice and follow the rules, I have no issues with you whatsoever. If you're going to go out of your way just to be rude, annoying, and break the rules, you deserve whatever sort of punishments you get.
In one hundred percent honest truth, with no intent in being a "troll" or "flame bait" you, I do actually contest it. The type of immaturity at hand here is the obnoxious, rude, needless immaturity which gives the younger minecraft community a bad name. You are trying to make it about "immaturity" as a whole, which I understand, but it isn't what the entirety of the topic is. Yes, if a kid in a server messes up and they admit to it, pay the price, and most importantly apologize whole heartedly, they yes, they did something immature, but they are NOT the type of immature we are discussing here. The type of immature at hand is the bratty, self-assured kid who goes in a server, annihilates everything they see, and then proceed to say "well what did you expect, I'm just a kid! lulz!"
So yes, you're 100% correct, a child's brain isn't fully developed, but it DOES NOT MATTER. Even a child with NO brain can not act like a twit on servers, and are there not the type of immature this entire argument is about. Now please take your scientific facts, and find me a relevant fact that explains why some kids are complete jerks for no reason, and others aren't. Is it because they're immature? Well EVERY child's brain isn't fully developed, so why isn't "Jimmy" a jerk like "Todd" is? Oh, is it because Todd is "immature", meaning he isn't acting like someone should in a social environment? Well Jimmy is a child, shouldn't he act the same? After all, all kids are immature!
The fact of the matter is, you made a statement which was too general, too thoughtless, even if your intentions were good at the time, and now instead of just paying up and accepting, you're playing the "Well science says 'X' so I'm right!" card, which is typically what people do when they either A.) don't want to accept that they made a mistake or B.)Have a compulsion to right 100% of the time, which is a battle you CAN NOT WIN. You can be wrong and take it laying down, it's not a bad thing, it's just plain humility. I'm sorry if this is coming off liek the "flame bait" you requested I not sling at you, but I really cannot justify any of what you have said, because you're making a generalization that, which technically "true", is not a catch-all, 100% right every time fact when, based on the context given, takes a phrase coined to deem the bratty behavior which some children exhibit, with a more literal "They're not fully developed yet" take.
Helping raise Dragons
isn't a huge pain! Just
give 'em a click!
Oh, boy...
Anyway, on to my thing. Thinking about it even more, I can imagine how bad I would be for the community when I was younger. I was a total doormat online and was a bit too innocent... No, I wouldn't be bad for the community,some members of the community would be bad for me.
I think as younger generations play more games online, parents need to realize that they need to understand what their child is doing. Many really don't. What the child is essentially doing is talking and interacting with strangers. You don't do that in real life, so what makes it better to do it anonymously?
New final verdict. Children can go online in games, as long as voice chat is a no go. But limited text chat I am absolutely okay with. Wait until they are, like thirteen to let them use voice chat and unlimited text.
Rant over, sorry if this went off topic but I feel like online interactions are a huge part of Minecraft.
Giant👏 Meteor👏 2020👏
Weee, welp Caae, "Sleeping Giant", I've really got one issue with what you did here.
You did that.
)
Comooon Caae. I thought you were better than that. But you just replied to his saying "All rules have exceptions" while you were both having a discussion on human personality, and then you gave him examples that were so sweeping and vague and as far from human personality and development as possible. When you give an example to prove something, pleeease make sure that example actually has to do with the discussion!
And if you tell me something to the effect of "Well he said there were no exceptions to ANYTHING so I told him things that don't have exceptions!" Then I will kindly kick your butt back to our big discussion on armor, where I did practically the same thing with the tier list junk and you were furious.
(Also cause its fun, there ARE exceptions to those rules you gave. The sun WILL stop rising one day, when in a billion billion years it sputters out. And not all Japanese people are Asian, I know some people with Japanese heritage that were born in America, and therefore American.
See? I just gotta take your rules as loosely as possible
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
But the reason they do this is that they're children. Most of them will grow up embarrassed at ever having done that. I'm not saying they should have no responsibility for their actions, I'm saying they have a right to play the game and if you don't like playing with them, there's the door.
Because... Some are more immature than others?
Some are more immature than others? Actually read what I say and don't start changing it. I said multiple times that some are more mature than others. This is just getting pathetic.
But I'm not wrong. All children are immature. You even agreed before in saying that no child has a fully developed brain. That is what immaturity is. Is this just going to turn into one of those arguments where I bring up scientifically backed points and you say "wow look at this guy he can't admit he's wrong"?
But children are bratty because they're not fully mature. Yes, they shouldn't be bratty. They should be brought up by their parents to not be and perhaps their parents need to teach them a few lessons. I'm merely explaining why they're that way, nothing more and nothing less. I just said all children are immature (which is true) as the explanation as to why some children are bratty online. It was a throwaway line but it wasn't wrong. I wasn't saying all children are equally immature or equally bratty, now can you stop wasting my time?
would give a whole big reason why "this and that", but right now I'm just too tired and frankly too stressed out because of work, so I'm gonna have to do bullet points to address these problems...
A.)Never said I had a problem playing with children, I suppose it's my turn to say "Actually read what I say and don't start changing it". I actually enjoy playing on servers with my nephews who are, surprise surprise, kids. Yet they don't act like dinguses because they're mentally mature. Not physically mature, they're young of course, but they ARE mature. MENTALLY.
B.)Nice way to divert the attention from the argument by calling me names. My 6 year old nephew does that a lot too and it works well for him.
C.)On the actual issue at hand, not just children are immature, so I can 100% say that it's NOT just because they're children. Some adults never get their ability to not be immature, and the type of immaturity at hand is a PERSONALITY issue and not a developmental one.
D.)Sure, all children aren't "Mature" in the meaning that they're fully developed, but the fact is "maturity" here is a state of mind, and no amount of growing can fix a broken mind, it's just part of nature. If they act like that a child, there's a chance it's just gonna keep on like that until someone bigger and more mature beats the maturity in to them.
Now I have to go back to work, so please kindly have a good day, I really, REALLY hope you can see the differences in the issue at hand rather than stubbornly drive your point in. Especially since I'm not the only one trying to bring to light why your driving home a point that, while correct, is irrelevant because you took things too literal and tried to make this about physical maturity rather than the mental maturity this entire discussion was about to begin with.
Helping raise Dragons
isn't a huge pain! Just
give 'em a click!
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ModeratorEnough with this maturity argument. This conversation appears to have moved well away from the simple topic of discussing thoughts on kids playing minecraft and is very close to being locked.
- sunperp
Me and Game here had a big discussion on Discord about it.
The Wyrm Watches. The Wyrm knows. The Wyrm reads. The Wyrm Animates too! Check me out at the WyrmWorks Channel on Youtube!
You should join Brazil on the Total War Minecraft server - 167.114.100.168:43841! Includes many Minecraft Forum members including myself, Selene011, Genius_idiot, Gamelord, and more!
Opening statement: hopefully this post restores faith that this discussion is on-topic. I'm writing this after writing up the rest of this post.
I do believe the discussion is relevant and links back to the topic, as I've tried to clarify in this post. This whole chain of discussion on maturity was just, in my eyes, a misunderstanding regarding what I said in my original post which directly responded to the OP. I was just trying to explain and expand upon what I meant in that post, which I think is important to the thread as a whole. Hopefully I'm not just digging myself into a deeper hole here, it's just that I do feel strongly about this.
And if all of those posts were off-topic, hopefully this one can be considered on-topic, as I link it back to the original question and explain my feelings about it multiple times. The hope, of course, is that this can bring a close to the possibly-off-topic discussion and give us all a bit of closure and clear up some misunderstandings.
I'm not going to argue my point any longer if Anon disagrees, I'm just explaining what I meant in my other posts so that people have a better understanding of what my opinion on the main question actually is.
I didn't say you don't like playing with them, I said if. It was supposed to be a general statement targeted at anyone.
I think we have a misunderstanding here. When I say they're immature, I mean that their brains are literally not fully grown. Therefore, mentally, they are literally immature, because their brains are not fully developed. That's how I was using the word mature. Some may act more mature than others and even than some adults, but in a literal sense, compared to how they will be when they are adults, they are immature. That's the definition I was using when I wrote my initial post.
I was trying to say that all children are immature, i.e. no child is fully developed mentally, and thus they are more prone to say and do silly, immature things on Minecraft servers than adults (on average). I wasn't trying to say all children on Minecraft servers act like the annoying ones you see on YouTube videos. Sorry if I caused a misunderstanding there.
Are you trying to say I'm acting like a 6 year old? Is this necessary?
I was using immature in a very literal sense in order to get the idea across that they are more likely, on average, to do dumb, immature things on MC servers than adults.
This isn't the kind of maturity I was talking about when I made my post. And to clarify, my original post was targeted at the OP and was not arguing with anybody specific and their definition.
So overall, I hope I've clarified my point a bit. All I was trying to say is that children are more likely to cause problems on MC servers because they are not fully matured yet (all children will be more mature at 30 than at 8, obviously), and we should not always be too harsh about it. That's all I was saying and I think you misunderstood me - I was not trying to say that all children act like the brats on some Minecraft servers, and I was not trying to say they should get a 'get out of jail free' card.
If you disagree with what I've said even after these clarifications, I'll absolutely discuss it further in PM.
Ok then, I was going to reply to your argument on maturity, but back on topic like the Moderator said. I stand by what I said in my original reply to you. In the reply above you completely twisted up what I said and clearly did not understand some of my points, and acted as if I was making accusations when I clearly wasn't. If I continue this here though, the thread will probably be locked, so if you do want to continue, Private Message me please. My final thoughts on kids playing minecraft: If they are on a server, they had better be a good member that doesn't cause problems in a community, otherwise they need to be kicked off, and if that's the case I will tell them they need to leave, and I wholeheartedly commend anybody else who is willing to tell them to beat it, or the moderator who does kick them off, and this goes for any age, but this thread is about children.
If you're interested in an awesome, white-listed, pure vanilla server, consider applying!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/servers/pc-servers/2811770-axiba-smp-community-focused-vanilla-survival#c4
Well then I didn't try to do any of that, and I apologise.
I've already read this post, this discussion looks pretty on-topic to me.
I agree with this, mostly. Let me just clarify what I was saying before. Yes, if a child is being immature and ruining a mature community, they should leave. But you specifically telling them to leave, as a normal player, is just going to cause problems because doing that is not your responsibility, and that will cause drama when you could just let a staff member deal with it. It's an issue on forums too, it's calling 'mini-modding' and it just makes things worse for everyone. To explain it briefly, you can't actually make them leave by yourself, so if you tell them to leave they're obviously not going to leave. In fact, they'll just say something rude back to you, and you get nowhere, you just make the toxicity worse, right? Usually, the best course of action in this situation is to ask a moderator (via a PM if the server allows it) to kick them out. Otherwise, whatever they're doing that you don't like, they'll just do more. They like attention.
But overall, to summarise my response to this thread in a hopefully more useful way: I do not have a problem with children playing on Minecraft servers. Them acting immaturely is to be expected, because they are children, and are therefore immature by definition (yes, I know some act maturely). Still, if they break rules, they absolutely should be banned. I don't think children should have a 'just a kid' shield and I apologise if my posts came off that way. I know plenty of children who act immaturely but who are not rude, I wasn't trying to use the word immature to mean bad, just to mean childish. I've played with plenty of people a lot younger than me, and it's pretty obvious they are younger because they certainly don't act like adults, but they are perfectly nice people and I'm perfectly happy to play with them.
Having played with just about every age "range" in numerous games, I find that it is more important to have respect more so than "maturity". If they treat people with some basic respect, then they'll get it in return. If they are being treated poorly, then they need to try and find a solution to the problem, either by notifying a mod/admin or, just ignoring them/leaving the game. The moment they start having a tantrum and yell, kick, spew profanities and such is when they become annoying brat's that need to be hit with a ban-hammer.
Let's admit, teens can be just as annoying, in the same ways... Or worse ways. x)
Absolutely. I think respect is probably a more accurate word to describe what these people need. Especially since the word maturity has caused way too much contention in this thread.
But yes, respect is probably the defining factor now I think about it. It's like the magic word I hadn't thought of. I suppose that's what makes the difference between immature and annoying brat.
We've settled it people! Give this man a medal.
It's not the only thing people need, but it can get someone pretty darn far, in just about any situation.
I know a very quiet kid who loves MC because it gives him a chance to be a bully instead of being bullied. He is an equal opportunity griefer. Lava is his specialty. Does he get a kick out of griefing big builds and looting and trashing or burning bases? You bet! he's only 9 years old and for the past 2 years he's griefed several Survival servers. How did he learn this behavior? By watching the "older" MC players on those servers his father allowed him to play on.
I play on several Anarchy servers, where just about anything goes. None of my confederates are as systematically ruthless as the younger players on Vanilla Survival sites. This is definitely not LEGOS. MC has evolved into a training mechanism for the end-of-days fear and belief that pervades the worldwide Christian/Muslim/Jewish/Environmental communities. The only decision parents and adults need to consider re MC is whether they want their children to develop these skills or not.
Personally, I think they may be necessary before they become grandparents.