What happens to the people that already bought kits/items/ranks? Do they keep there ranks or are they just scammed for the money? There will be a lot of chargebacks, fraudulent transaction claims, and a lot of sueing.
How should servers deal with users who have already spent hard currency on features that affect gameplay?
Users may keep the perks they’ve paid for on the condition that the same perks are available to other players on the server (directly or purchasable using soft currency). It’s up to the server host to decide how to compensate users for previous transactions.
"[3/06/2014 10:05:47 PM] Jake / Dithrlos™ /ZionicGaming™: minecraft relies on it's servers, and on youtubers.[3/06/2014 10:05:50 PM] Erik Broes: it doesn't[3/06/2014 10:06:00 PM] Erik Broes: Minecraft still sells 10k+ copies a day"
The fact the Mojang (I know. Erik said it , but he is an employee of Mojang) think Youtubers haven't made Minecraft big shows that they have no idea how the community works. This suggests that Mojangs intentions may not be with the community.
Alas all the people who are trying to stop this EULA are going completely the wrong way about it. Closing a few minecraft servers temporarily won't do anything. Here is what you need to do :
1. Close as many minecraft servers as possible BEFORE the EULA takes place all at the same time and keep them closed until the EULA changes back and Mojang doesn't enforce it. Get the big servers in to , like Hypixel , PlayMindcrack , HiveMC etc.
2. Tell people about this. Get Youtubers to post videos. Hell. Get every part of the community telling people about this. Even tweeting it at as many people as possible helps.
3. Don't threaten legal action. It just won't work unless you find Mojang are legitimately breaking a law with this EULA (It has to be an EU or Swedish law though. USA laws won't have an effect).
I'm glad that somebody actually decided to read the chat log.
In the end it all comes down to ethics, and Mojang is not doing very well.
Being a nerd is nothing to be ashamed of. Nerds rule the world! Who invented the internet? Nerds. Who created personal computers and smart phones? Nerds. Who made every video game you've ever played and ever will? Still nerds. Who sent probes to distant planets? Nerds, nerds and more nerds! I'm a nerd and I'm proud.
This EULA will seriously make server gameplay much better for someone like myself, who doesn't have the money to afford these ranks. The worst part about donators on the typical server: Someone with a donator rank can typically beat anyone who hasn't donated, even someone who has been on the server for years and can take down almost any non-donor has a much lower chance of beating a donor, even one who has been on the server for less than an hour.
Of the major server networks, some of the ones most clearly oriented towards pay-to-win, with premium classes that are typically more powerful than anything you can get without it, are Mineplex (In most minigames, the Ultra classes are buffed versions of the default class), Hypixel (More coins, buffed classes), and Minecade (Incredibly OP VIP classes, especially in Super Craft Bros).
Ironically enough, here is a quote from Sterling (Mineplex's owner)'s letter to Mojang about the new EULA: "I think the fundamental disagreement here is what servers are selling. Mineplex, as well as the other major networks (Hypixel, Shotbow, Oc.tc, Hive, etc.), all understand that you do not want Minecraft to become a pay-to-win game. But none of us have a revenue model focused on pay-to-win. While many of our ranks/kits give access different abilities in game, they are balanced classes. The default starting classes are no better or worse than the ones you can earn through play or by paying for rank. It’s just a different customized experience, they all have pros/cons and are not a guaranteed win in a minigame - you are not paying to win, you’re just paying for a different experience – amongst other cosmetic rank benefits."
Of the servers listed, only two (Hive and oc.tc) have revenue models that give little or no gameplay advantage to premiums. Oc.tc gives the ability to join full servers, select your team, and earn bonus points for a purely cosmetic currency. Hive gives currency bonuses to donors, but the currency has minimal effects on actual gameplay that can't be obtained otherwise.
*Ranting has finished, I shall now wait eagerly for August 1st.*
This EULA will seriously make server gameplay much better for someone like myself, who doesn't have the money to afford these ranks. The worst part about donators on the typical server: Someone with a donator rank can typically beat anyone who hasn't donated, even someone who has been on the server for years and can take down almost any non-donor has a much lower chance of beating a donor, even one who has been on the server for less than an hour.
Of the major server networks, some of the ones most clearly oriented towards pay-to-win, with premium classes that are typically more powerful than anything you can get without it, are Mineplex (In most minigames, the Ultra classes are buffed versions of the default class), Hypixel (More coins, buffed classes), and Minecade (Incredibly OP VIP classes, especially in Super Craft Bros).
Ironically enough, here is a quote from Sterling (Mineplex's owner)'s letter to Mojang about the new EULA: "I think the fundamental disagreement here is what servers are selling. Mineplex, as well as the other major networks (Hypixel, Shotbow, Oc.tc, Hive, etc.), all understand that you do not want Minecraft to become a pay-to-win game. But none of us have a revenue model focused on pay-to-win. While many of our ranks/kits give access different abilities in game, they are balanced classes. The default starting classes are no better or worse than the ones you can earn through play or by paying for rank. It’s just a different customized experience, they all have pros/cons and are not a guaranteed win in a minigame - you are not paying to win, you’re just paying for a different experience – amongst other cosmetic rank benefits."
Of the servers listed, only two (Hive and oc.tc) have revenue models that give little or no gameplay advantage to premiums. Oc.tc gives the ability to join full servers, select your team, and earn bonus points for a purely cosmetic currency. Hive gives currency bonuses to donors, but the currency has minimal effects on actual gameplay that can't be obtained otherwise.
*Ranting has finished, I shall now wait eagerly for August 1st.*
“1) You are now allowed to charge players to access your servers”
Now not only will players who don’t want to pay not be able to have access to every custom-built feature or gameplay experience, they won’t have access to any of them because they won’t be able to get into the server in the first place.
That's not the point here though. The point here is that Mojang (or part of Mojang) has the idea that Youtubers and Servers didn't help to make minecraft what it is today.
That's not actually what he said, though. Jake used the word "relies" as in present tense, Eric responded to that. If Jake had said that Minecraft had "relied" on Youtubers and servers and Eric flat out denied it then there'd be an issue. In other words, I think you guys are reading too much into that one statement.
My response about ethics was just to point out the obvious hypocrisy.
Hmm. All the facts check out. So in theory , a server with a good lawyer could get out of this EULA (If they are based in the EU. I don't know about other parts of the world).
Yeah not to sure either. I just don't understand why Eula are made to effect some country's and not others. I think this is going to be a huge battle.!!
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CJEU C-128/11 does not apply, no one has ever bought the server software. The problem isn't the selling of things it's the usage of Mojang's software for commercial purposes.
That's not the point here though. The point here is that Mojang (or part of Mojang) has the idea that Youtubers and Servers didn't help to make minecraft what it is today.
That is the entire point. You say Mojang isn't ethical but at the same time support people who sell other people's property. If you do not see the obvious hypocrisy in this, then may I sell your computer as you shouldn't have a problem with that either?
Minecraft became a big hit in the gaming community NOT BECAUSE OF THE PAY2WIN STYLE but because of the game itself, the pay2win style evolved from greedy moneygrubbers. If you absolutely cannot play mc without paying 100 dollars plus, then you sir, can go play another game. As for the newly enforcing of the eula, all i can say is this:
DOWN WITH THE MINECRAFT CASTE SYSTEM!
My economic status should not be a factor in a video game like minecraft. I payed for minecraft, and if i want to donate to your server, i'll donate to keep it running because i want it to survive, not to gain an advantage over some guy who might not have enough money to get by. I have no patience or sympathy for those individuals who rob children of their parent's money to pay their salary. What you do in video games affects who you are when you log out.
Minecraft became a big hit in the gaming community NOT BECAUSE OF THE PAY2WIN STYLE but because of the game itself, the pay2win style evolved from greedy moneygrubbers. If you absolutely cannot play mc without paying 100 dollars plus, then you sir, can go play another game. As for the newly enforcing of the eula, all i can say is this:
DOWN WITH THE MINECRAFT CASTE SYSTEM!
My economic status should not be a factor in a video game like minecraft. I payed for minecraft, and if i want to donate to your server, i'll donate to keep it running because i want it to survive, not to gain an advantage over some guy who might not have enough money to get by. I have no patience or sympathy for those individuals who rob children of their parent's money to pay their salary. What you do in video games affects who you are when you log out.
Peace Bros, I'm out.
Finally ! Finally a smart guy that agrees with me !
Being a nerd is nothing to be ashamed of. Nerds rule the world! Who invented the internet? Nerds. Who created personal computers and smart phones? Nerds. Who made every video game you've ever played and ever will? Still nerds. Who sent probes to distant planets? Nerds, nerds and more nerds! I'm a nerd and I'm proud.
Oh , you too ! I tired of those complaining because scamming kids isn't allowed and all they say is : " hosting servers is expensive ! people wont donate ( donate , not purchase ) for cosmetics " .
Being a nerd is nothing to be ashamed of. Nerds rule the world! Who invented the internet? Nerds. Who created personal computers and smart phones? Nerds. Who made every video game you've ever played and ever will? Still nerds. Who sent probes to distant planets? Nerds, nerds and more nerds! I'm a nerd and I'm proud.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
6/23/2014
Posts:
58
Member Details
I own a server and don’t take donation, however the EULA is being used as a way to harass me.
I been trying to get more players to come to my server so I decide that I would offer free world hosting for clans that have 6 more players in them, the worlds are private and only clan members can enter them and build in them. Some players are coming and saying that I can’t have private worlds or areas on my server.
Points:
I had a shop on my old enjin website for another server that players could buy items with in game points you got the points based on your play time you could not get the points for money.
However I now see that some servers are selling points for money and you use the points to buy minecraft items and minecraft items that come from mods.
I believe that you can have private area and world on your server as long as you don’t force players to pay to use them and think that the buying point think is a violation of the EULA.
1. Who says I was supporting the server owners here? I am not sure who to support any more. Anyway. Server owners aren't selling Mojangs propriety. Mojang don't own the specific 4 bytes of data which happens to be a pickaxe when Minecraft processes it.
2. And to all those who say servers should make money because they are using Mojangs property: "Mojang shouldn't make money of Minecraft because Minecraft uses Oracles property".
But again. I understand why Mojang are doing this. I honestly have no idea if they are in the right or wrong ethically or legally speaking though.
1. Actually they do. This is the same reason games such as Runescape and World of Warcraft are able to fight Real World Trading. This has legal precedent.
2. Oracle allows people to profit off their software. Mojang does not :/
How should servers deal with users who have already spent hard currency on features that affect gameplay?
Users may keep the perks they’ve paid for on the condition that the same perks are available to other players on the server (directly or purchasable using soft currency). It’s up to the server host to decide how to compensate users for previous transactions.
I'm glad that somebody actually decided to read the chat log.
In the end it all comes down to ethics, and Mojang is not doing very well.
The original was removed because it was set to expire after a while.
Copy of the original chat log: http://pastebin.com/h1Q4ZUX6
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Retired StaffKinda like all those people who built a business around the game even though it was expressly forbidden by the EULA?
Of the major server networks, some of the ones most clearly oriented towards pay-to-win, with premium classes that are typically more powerful than anything you can get without it, are Mineplex (In most minigames, the Ultra classes are buffed versions of the default class), Hypixel (More coins, buffed classes), and Minecade (Incredibly OP VIP classes, especially in Super Craft Bros).
Ironically enough, here is a quote from Sterling (Mineplex's owner)'s letter to Mojang about the new EULA: "I think the fundamental disagreement here is what servers are selling. Mineplex, as well as the other major networks (Hypixel, Shotbow, Oc.tc, Hive, etc.), all understand that you do not want Minecraft to become a pay-to-win game. But none of us have a revenue model focused on pay-to-win. While many of our ranks/kits give access different abilities in game, they are balanced classes. The default starting classes are no better or worse than the ones you can earn through play or by paying for rank. It’s just a different customized experience, they all have pros/cons and are not a guaranteed win in a minigame - you are not paying to win, you’re just paying for a different experience – amongst other cosmetic rank benefits."
Of the servers listed, only two (Hive and oc.tc) have revenue models that give little or no gameplay advantage to premiums. Oc.tc gives the ability to join full servers, select your team, and earn bonus points for a purely cosmetic currency. Hive gives currency bonuses to donors, but the currency has minimal effects on actual gameplay that can't be obtained otherwise.
*Ranting has finished, I shall now wait eagerly for August 1st.*
“1) You are now allowed to charge players to access your servers”
Now not only will players who don’t want to pay not be able to have access to every custom-built feature or gameplay experience, they won’t have access to any of them because they won’t be able to get into the server in the first place.
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Retired StaffThat's not actually what he said, though. Jake used the word "relies" as in present tense, Eric responded to that. If Jake had said that Minecraft had "relied" on Youtubers and servers and Eric flat out denied it then there'd be an issue. In other words, I think you guys are reading too much into that one statement.
My response about ethics was just to point out the obvious hypocrisy.
Read more here :
http://www.reddit.com/r/admincraft/comments/284f3j/notchs_personal_opinions_on_the_monetisation/ci7b7rg
Yeah not to sure either. I just don't understand why Eula are made to effect some country's and not others. I think this is going to be a huge battle.!!
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Retired StaffCJEU C-128/11 does not apply, no one has ever bought the server software. The problem isn't the selling of things it's the usage of Mojang's software for commercial purposes.
That is the entire point. You say Mojang isn't ethical but at the same time support people who sell other people's property. If you do not see the obvious hypocrisy in this, then may I sell your computer as you shouldn't have a problem with that either?
Minecraft became a big hit in the gaming community NOT BECAUSE OF THE PAY2WIN STYLE but because of the game itself, the pay2win style evolved from greedy moneygrubbers. If you absolutely cannot play mc without paying 100 dollars plus, then you sir, can go play another game. As for the newly enforcing of the eula, all i can say is this:
DOWN WITH THE MINECRAFT CASTE SYSTEM!
My economic status should not be a factor in a video game like minecraft. I payed for minecraft, and if i want to donate to your server, i'll donate to keep it running because i want it to survive, not to gain an advantage over some guy who might not have enough money to get by. I have no patience or sympathy for those individuals who rob children of their parent's money to pay their salary. What you do in video games affects who you are when you log out.
Peace Bros, I'm out.
Finally ! Finally a smart guy that agrees with me !
*jokingly* I am hurt
Oh , you too ! I tired of those complaining because scamming kids isn't allowed and all they say is : " hosting servers is expensive ! people wont donate ( donate , not purchase ) for cosmetics " .
I been trying to get more players to come to my server so I decide that I would offer free world hosting for clans that have 6 more players in them, the worlds are private and only clan members can enter them and build in them. Some players are coming and saying that I can’t have private worlds or areas on my server.
Points:
I had a shop on my old enjin website for another server that players could buy items with in game points you got the points based on your play time you could not get the points for money.
However I now see that some servers are selling points for money and you use the points to buy minecraft items and minecraft items that come from mods.
I believe that you can have private area and world on your server as long as you don’t force players to pay to use them and think that the buying point think is a violation of the EULA.
1. Actually they do. This is the same reason games such as Runescape and World of Warcraft are able to fight Real World Trading. This has legal precedent.
2. Oracle allows people to profit off their software. Mojang does not :/