A petition wont effect it at all one the eula statment has not been changed it is just now that they choose to enforce it and mojang can just choose to ignore the petition there not a branch of gonvenment there a company lol .
World edit is a game changer. It completely affects how you build stuff and the quickness. Therefore is not an exception for selling perms.
World Edit is not a game changer in creative mode (where it is most likely being implemented); it is a time-saver. You can do everything without World Edit in vanilla Minecraft creative mode with the same, if not fewer, risks involved. The only thing that changes is the time it takes, and time is not important in creative mode; it is only important for the user's convenience.
A petition wont effect it at all one the eula statment has not been changed it is just now that they choose to enforce it and mojang can just choose to ignore the petition there not a branch of gonvenment there a company lol .
Just because they can doesn't mean they will. The community has always helped shape the way Mojang rolls. It seems futile, but it's the only thing we can do.
World Edit is not a game changer in creative mode (where it is most likely being implemented); it is a time-saver. You can do everything without World Edit in vanilla Minecraft creative mode with the same, if not fewer, risks involved. The only thing that changes is the time it takes, and time is not important in creative mode; it is only important for the user's convenience.
Just because they can doesn't mean they will. The community has always helped shape the way Mojang rolls. It seems futile, but it's the only thing we can do.
Exactly my point, if its creative with like plots and what not, i dont think you should have to pay for a rank or pay for worldedit or charge for permissions. Think thats silly and against the EULA act anyway!
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
6/6/2014
Posts:
52
Member Details
I believe a lot of people/server owners are over reacting about the whole situation "Oh my god oh my god I'm sorry my wonderful members looks like we'll be forced to shutdown since we can't let you donate and do things that were always against the rules". Honestly do you think Mojang is seriously going to take the time to look over THOUSANDS of servers to make sure they're being obedient? They're just trying to keep the big servers under control, I'm sure servers like Hypixel are raking in way more money than they use for their website and server. The worst Mojang could do is put a little tab on their website with "Instert Naughty Servers Here" which would most likely just get abused and people would just spam Mojang with servers they hate or fake servers. I highly doubt they would take the time to enforce their silly selfish rules, who's running the servers? US not them, I don't care if it's their game they make plenty of money with merchandise and the millions of people that have purchased the game. They're OUR servers we should be allowed to do whatever the hell we want to both support the server and hell even reward ourselves with a little money for all our hard work we've put into making a server for players to enjoy. Servers should just carry on with business do what they've been doing, it'll be like drug dealers once some are put down double the dealers emerge (that is if they choose to enforce it).
Exactly my point, if its creative with like plots and what not, i dont think you should have to pay for a rank or pay for worldedit or charge for permissions. Think thats silly and against the EULA act anyway!
Why? There is nothing wrong with worldedit, it gives you zero advantage..
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้
Why? There is nothing wrong with worldedit, it gives you zero advantage..
hmm lets see here... You can make gigantic walls in about 10 seconds, you get really no "great feeling" like you would if you built it legit in creative. You have a lot of advantage against vanilla creative. If you cant see the advantage of commands over no commands, then i dont know what to say...
Also, you quoted my post that had nothing to do with how advantageous worldedit was.
This. I don't really play minecraft anymore except a certain pvp free for all server that has the most balanced gameplay ive seen, but with premium classes. These classes are widely recognized as not being OP, and frankly, a FREE class was recently nerfed, lol. But Mojang doesn't care. They know they can't inspect every server and use judgement to decide whether or not to let them keep those up.
This is purely about their image. Mojang doesn't want to be seen as a company that makes kids want to steal their mom's credit card to pay some rediculous amount of money to a server. Yet they said it themselves, these servers are not run by Mojang. Its the owners who allow such outragous prices to be set on certain perks for their servers, but the parents who find out only know the name Minecraft and figure Mojang is the one setting these prices. What Mojang needs to realize is that plenty of games get media about kid's stealing credit cards to pay for certain things on a game. It happens all the time. You aren't going to look bad. And you shouldn't care because its not going to drop your sales. Stop covering this up with your idea that you want all the servers to encourage equality or whatever. This isn't a fantasy world and money doesn't grow on trees.
As to people who claim donators will still donate regardless of perks: Well sure they would. Thats basically what donations MEAN. But we aren't talking about donators. We are talking about buyers and sellers, aka 95% of the people that give money to the big servers and those server owners. Without any incentive, these buyers are not just going to have a change of heart and magically turn into donators. Servers will undoubtably lose money. Many servers will be shut down.
Am I saying I like pay to win? No. To hell with those servers. But this idea to just wipe away all servers that actually gives incentives in a smart and non game breaking way are screwed as well. Mojang shouldn't care. Its the player's decision to play on those pay to win servers. I said to hell with them, but to be honest, why should I try and get rid of them? I don't like pay to win, so I don't PLAY on pay to win. Simple as that. If people want to pay hundreds of dollars to get OP kits on a server, let them! Who cares why the non paying demographic still decides to play on those servers! There are (I am assuming) millions more out there that you can find. I found that pvp server i mentioned earlier, and I have played on it for over 2 years!
But nontheless, its not like Mojang cares about this post. I already know that the only server I play on when it comes to minecraft is either going to need to make some major changes or eventually shut down. I really hate saying this but I feel like all I can do is just sigh and say "oh well." I probably would stop playing Minecraft for good.
Going along with this, I wonder how they plan to monitor every single server to make sure they follow this rule. You don't HAVE to use buycraft. Also, I wonder if they will realize how big they dun goofed after every server needs to shut down
It's called the bystander effect. Everyone just stands around and hopes someone else will pitch in. A few people may take responsibility, but not enough.
Then I guess that just sucks for them when the server is gone. Life is like that. Maybe they'll learn something. I have been on one server that needed donations to keep going. As a reward people got stuff like a color for their name in chat, no gameplay-changing perks. People donated anyway. It can work.
Servers cost thousands of dollars to maintain, and if they don't have enough funding to make ends meet, poof.
The giant servers cost thousands to maintain. I've never stepped foot on one and I bet a lot of Minecraft players haven't either or didn't stay very long if they did get on. A server capable of handling a couple hundred players or less (the capacity for the vast majority of the thousands of servers in existence) can be had for $100 a month or less. Even cheaper if you have the ability to host from home. Plus not everyone requires income from a server (Minecraft or otherwise) to run it. Some of us have disposable income from other sources like a job or possess the hosting resources already.
Your online experience is eviscerated and Mojang has to start all over again with their next game. Maybe it'll also be blocky.
I call melodrama on this. I've had several servers I play on die for varying reasons over the years. It sucks but I just go hunting for a new one and keep playing. So did most of the other players. I suppose some people are completely tied to their favorite server and without it there's no point to playing Minecraft at all anymore but I haven't met very many so far.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins: TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
You worded it to sound as if WorldEdit was, for all intents and purposes, was a part of Minecraft.
Running a server shouldn't be about "being fair". If I want to be worse than Hitler with my server, I will and I should be allowed to. Forcing "equality" in access to content that Mojang didn't even create down the throats of server owners is ridiculous, and the only people who truly love this new EULA are those who believe that they're now going to get that content that was previously out of reach for free.
There's a reason developers like Garry Newman have had not one, but two games (and probably many more on the way) absolutely explode with minimal effort.
I love the new EULA and I can/could get the content if I wanted to. The reason I like the EULA is because it removes the pay-to-win aspect, provides a better community, and gives a sense of equality. It could have its tweaks, but so can everything. I feel as if a lot (not all) are overreacting and acting like this is the end of the world. You don't even know how it's going to play out, or if Mojang is even going to enforce it this time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Looking for a Modder to help put my idea(s) to life
Then I guess that just sucks for them when the server is gone. Life is like that. Maybe they'll learn something. I have been on one server that needed donations to keep going. As a reward people got stuff like a color for their name in chat, no gameplay-changing perks. People donated anyway. It can work.
It doesn't just suck for them; it sucks for us. We just lost our servers.
The giant servers cost thousands to maintain. I've never stepped foot on one and I bet a lot of Minecraft players haven't either or didn't stay very long if they did get on. A server capable of handling a couple hundred players or less (the capacity for the vast majority of the thousands of servers in existence) can be had for $100 a month or less. Even cheaper if you have the ability to host from home. Plus not everyone requires income from a server (Minecraft or otherwise) to run it. Some of us have disposable income from other sources like a job or possess the hosting resources already.
Most big servers are over $100/month to host alone, and even if they do, the money to run it won't just appear out of thin air. A good server needs impressive builds and a good staff as well as the hosting, and most people don't have enough money in their back pockets to pay for that themselves.
I call melodrama on this. I've had several servers I play on die for varying reasons over the years. It sucks but I just go hunting for a new one and keep playing. So did most of the other players. I suppose some people are completely tied to their favorite server and without it there's no point to playing Minecraft at all anymore but I haven't met very many so far.
It's not about your favorite servers dying off; it's about servers in general. Most of the remaining servers will be overcrowded, laggy, or pay-to-play. In the end, the people it negatively affects the most are those of us who cannot pay on servers because once this goes out, we will be denied access altogether.
You worded it to sound as if WorldEdit was, for all intents and purposes, was a part of Minecraft.
Running a server shouldn't be about "being fair". If I want to be worse than Hitler with my server, I will and I should be allowed to. Forcing "equality" in access to content that Mojang didn't even create down the throats of server owners is ridiculous, and the only people who truly love this new EULA are those who believe that they're now going to get that content that was previously out of reach for free.
There's a reason developers like Garry Newman have had not one, but two games (and probably many more on the way) absolutely explode with minimal effort.
Regardless if the content is Mojang's or not, you are still using Mojang's platform to make money. I also am curious why you like the "Pay-to-Win" aspect of the game. I can easily buy "Invisi kits" or anything a server can offer, but that isn't the point whether i can buy it or not. Its based on personal preference, but also equality. Do i care if they enforce it, not really because it doesn't affect me as much as it would to a person who plays Factions and Creative servers with OP build opportunity.
Also sorry if i made it sound apart of Minecraft, but i don't see how it isn't apart of Minecraft when you have it in a Minecraft Server.
When you install a plugin/mod to Minecraft, you obviously download it from some external source, but then where does that external source download/product get used..? Take a guess... Minecraft. Yeah it's not linked to the game, but right when you add something to Minecraft, it becomes part of the game.
You may ask: If you don't care about the EULA if it is enforced or not why are you striving to prove a point?
Very fair question, and i shall answer. I dont think i should have to pay for a mod/plugin that i can get free in my own server where i can make it free to everyone else and rely on real donations. I would much prefer people donating that enjoy the server and want the server to be up, then me being greedy and forcing people to pay for perm or rank to keep my server up.
Therefore its still unfair and that is where everyone has to have access to world edit.
I don't know what you were trying to say, but this is what you said.
I'm completely against pay-to-win, I prefer a majority of cosmetic items to be the VIP rewards, my point in this thread has mainly been to show that you can have paid perk features without a pay-to-win element, and in my opinion, worldedit, being as powerful but relatively unimportant to your creations as it is, is one of the perks that can be paid for without the ability to "win". Granted, I'd be willing to concede worldedit as a paid feature because of the griefing potential, but it does help show the possibility of paid perk features.
Same goes for my previous examples of VIP areas an VIP-only minigame rounds; paid users aren't "winning" because they get to play a round of Hypixel's bow spleef with other paid users.
To completely defend the EULA is to assume there are no grey areas not covered by the current enforcement changes. That's completely untrue; you can have perks that are not pay-to-win that are also not cosmetic: priority, private area access, and coin bundles are all examples of this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
I don't know what you were trying to say, but this is what you said.I'm completely against pay-to-win, I prefer a majority of cosmetic items to be the VIP rewards, my point in this thread has mainly been to show that you can have paid perk features without a pay-to-win element, and in my opinion, worldedit, being as powerful but relatively unimportant to your creations as it is, is one of the perks that can be paid for without the ability to "win". Granted, I'd be willing to concede worldedit as a paid feature because of the griefing potential, but it does help show the possibility of paid perk features.Same goes for my previous examples of VIP areas an VIP-only minigame rounds; paid users aren't "winning" because they get to play a round of Hypixel's bow spleef with other paid users.To completely defend the EULA is to assume there are no grey areas not covered by the current enforcement changes. That's completely untrue; you can have perks that are not pay-to-win that are also not cosmetic: priority, private area access, and coin bundles are all examples of this.
I like how you just reworded everything i just said. Also i am not "Completely" defending EULA as you say.
"in my opinion, worldedit, being as powerful but relatively unimportant to your creations as it is, is one of the perks that can be paid for without the ability to "win" I do not want worldedit to be a perk of which you can purchase, my whole point in all my posts.
"That's completely untrue; you can have perks that are not pay-to-win that are also not cosmetic; priority, private area access, and coin bundles are all examples of this". You can have perks all you want, but worldedit is pointless as a perk you have to purchase as it is a huge advantage. As for private area's and coin bundles, what is in this "private area"? Also the EULA doesn't allow purchase of soft currency for hard currency. That also includes bitcoins as a no go under the EULA. Are there loopholes? Yeah probably, but my whole point i'm trying to make is not to make it sound like the EULA is flawless but to say that certain things shouldn't be charged for when i can make a server and rely on real donations from people who actually want the server to be up instead of forcing people to provide money to me so my server can stay up like i said in my previous post.
EULA is amazing as it evens the fairness of Minecraft on servers.
Perhaps we have different definitions of "defend". I'm not trying to be rude, it's ok to defend the EULA. I'm just arguing against it. You may not be defending it completely, no, you may have some issue that you have not mentioned, I'm just using those words to prove a point.
I do not want worldedit to be a perk of which you can purchase, my whole point in all my posts.
I noticed, yes.
You can have perks all you want, but worldedit is pointless as a perk you have to purchase as it is a huge advantage.
As I have been saying, I do not see it that way. It is a timesaver. I can build a giant wall in 10 seconds with worldedit, I can also build a giant wall with creative mode in 2 minutes. You cannot do anything with Worldedit that cannot be done with vanilla creative with some, often very little, effort. Therefore, because there is nothing you can do with worldedit that you can't do with vanilla, there is no advantage other than a small amount of time saved. Yes, this time saved goes up as the project becomes larger, but you can also request help from other people to shorten the amount of time. Overall, the time advantage is negligible.
As for private area's and coin bundles, what is in this "private area"?
I have detailed that in my previous posts. I'll reiterate; I believe a VIP area is not a pay-to-win advantage so long as the area has no bearing on the server's overall goal. For example, a story-based RPG server cannot have a town crucial to the plot locked by a paywall, they can, however, have a sidequest town or an area in which they can rest and socialize. Another example, a prison-based server cannot have a VIP area that houses the only shops for Lapis in the entire game without any method of giving free players to ability to sell Lapis, they can, however, have an area that houses VIP-only cells and shops. That is what I believe.
Also the EULA doesn't allow purchase of soft currency for hard currency. That also includes bitcoins as a no go under the EULA. Are there loopholes?
Yes, that is what the EULA says, that is why I am arguing against that clause. I believe one loophole is if the items are purely cosmetic and the money is not affecting gameplay (I.E. on an economy server, you can give donors their own currency to purchase aesthetic items to their leisure, but this currency can't touch the currency used by everyone else), do not take my word for this.
Yeah probably, but my whole point i'm trying to make is not to make it sound like the EULA is flawless but to say that certain things shouldn't be charged for when i can make a server and rely on real donations from people who actually want the server to be up instead of forcing people to provide money to me so my server can stay up like i said in my previous post.
People who buy kits don't want your server to stay up? What is the difference between someone donating and someone buying a perk (provided the perk isn't pay-to-win)? One wants to give money to you without an incentive, the other wants to give you money in return for something. Do you believe that only the donator wants to see your server continue running?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Perhaps we have different definitions of "defend". I'm not trying to be rude, it's ok to defend the EULA. I'm just arguing against it. You may not be defending it completely, no, you may have some issue that you have not mentioned, I'm just using those words to prove a point.
[background=rgb(242, 246, 249)][font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][color=#282828][size=small]As I have been saying, I do not see it that way. It is a [/size][/color][/font]timesaver[font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][color=#282828][size=small]. I can build a giant wall in 10 seconds with worldedit, I can also build a giant wall with creative mode in 2 minutes. You cannot do anything with Worldedit that cannot be done with vanilla creative with some, often very little, effort. Therefore, because there is nothing you can do with worldedit that you can't do with vanilla, [/size][/color][/font]there is no advantage other than a small amount of time saved[font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][color=#282828][size=small]. Yes, this time saved goes up as the project becomes larger, but you can also request help from other people to shorten the amount of time. Overall, the time advantage is negligible.[/size][/color][/font][/background]
[color=#282828][font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][size=small][background=rgb(242, 246, 249)]I have detailed that in my previous posts. I'll reiterate; I believe a VIP area is not a pay-to-win advantage so long as the area has no bearing on the server's overall goal. For example, a story-based RPG server cannot have a town crucial to the plot locked by a paywall, they can, however, have a sidequest town or an area in which they can rest and socialize. Another example, a prison-based server cannot have a VIP area that houses the only shops for Lapis in the entire game without any method of giving free players to ability to sell Lapis, they can, however, have an area that houses VIP-only cells and shops. That is what I believe.[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[size=small][background=rgb(242, 246, 249)][font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][color=#282828]Yes, that is what the EULA says, that is why I am arguing against that clause. I believe one loophole is if the items are purely cosmetic and the money is not affecting gameplay (I.E. on an economy server, you can give donors their own currency to purchase aesthetic items to their leisure, but this currency can't touch the currency used by everyone else), do not take my word for this.[/color][/font][/background][/size]
[color=#282828][font=Verdana, Geneva, Tahoma, sans-serif][size=small][background=rgb(242, 246, 249)]People who buy kits don't want your server to stay up? What is the difference between someone donating and someone buying a perk (provided the perk isn't pay-to-win)? One wants to give money to you without an incentive, the other wants to give you money in return for something. Do you believe that only the donator wants to see your server continue running?[/background][/size][/font][/color]
See i agree with you on a lot of aspects of the server. I honestly don't have a problem charging for certain things but like you said above, worldedit isn't a big advantage which i'm starting to agree with now. But that also furthers my point on how it shouldn't be a perk you have to pay for either through priority, or any rank.
Side note: Wish i knew how to multi quote certain lines like you do.
The private areas like you made clear to me do make more sense to charge for. I think the issue i'm having is i have been on servers where they literally charge for everything... Like ranks, donator, priority, cosmetics, perks, perms. I just don't see how everything that is within the loopholes of the EULA should all of a sudden be okay to charge for.
As for the last quote there, to answer a few of your questions. Do i believe that only the donor wants to see my server running?
Well, the whole point of a donation in the Minecraft server spectrum is to provide money so the server owner has an easier way of paying for the next month. There will always be a difference between a real donator vs Purchaser/consumer. You also do have more incentive to obviously give money to someone if your getting something in return.
My honest look on it is, its your money you do what you want with it. But if we are looking at the EULA side of it, purchasing items and calling it donating is wrong.
Also EULA is a neutral idea for me, reason one would be to remove most of the pay to win aspect which is technically my biggest concern.
But also, if you want to spend your money on rank and stuff in a server you really like, go ahead. So im on the fence.
I may have contradicted myself but , i just am thinking of this from the most logical way possible now and if it effects me at all.
Side note: Wish i knew how to multi quote certain lines like you do.
I copy-cut from the original quote, put some more quote tags, paste it in between and repeat.
I agree completely, there is a point where charging for things become silly. My problem is just that the EULA takes the nuclear option; instead of separating what's wrong with paid perks and what's fine, it destroys the idea of them entirely except for cosmetic items. As much as Mojang says "it's more lenient in comparison to the previous one" and so on, that doesn't justify taking the stance they did; there's only so much people can do with aesthetics; pets, hats, outfits, posters, and so on. That's the only problem I have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Ok......... let me ask you this. How are the owners of the servers suppose to pay for the funds to keep the server running?Ok it switched up pages on me sorry for that post guys bye!
I copy-cut from the original quote, put some more quote tags, paste it in between and repeat.
I agree completely, there is a point where charging for things become silly. My problem is just that the EULA takes the nuclear option; instead of separating what's wrong with paid perks and what's fine, it destroys the idea of them entirely except for cosmetic items. As much as Mojang says "it's more lenient in comparison to the previous one" and so on, that doesn't justify taking the stance they did; there's only so much people can do with aesthetics; pets, hats, outfits, posters, and so on. That's the only problem I have.
Yeah exactly, im pretty much where your sitting then. I think that Mojang has taken the EULA to a whole other level and is making it not unfair but difficult. I think charging for certain items should be allowed as long as the price is reasonable.
They are enforcing it so might as well creep through the loopholes.
I currently do not run a server that provides any kind of services for me to make money but i wouldn't mind it. Message me please i got to ask you something!
Good discussion sir.
I don't like the pay to win aspect of this game. However, I don't feel the need to enforce my opinions upon people who do like it. These servers exist because people play on them; there are servers with *thousands* of players that like pay to win.
Your argument about something becoming part of Minecraft once it touches anything Minecraft related goes out the window when somebody eventually cooks up a clean room design of the official server.
God forbid somebody be "greedy" and let people buy things for the sake of supporting a server.
Running a server from home is often times not a money saver, especially if you're using real server hardware that would be used if you were to rent from a company that can afford the air conditioning, electricity, crazy uplinks, etc.
Not the way i work. People charge for things on servers that should not be charged for. If you cant agree, then disagree but stop reposting trying to be right.
Its all preference anyway, but the EULA is a good idea more then it is bad.
A petition wont effect it at all one the eula statment has not been changed it is just now that they choose to enforce it and mojang can just choose to ignore the petition there not a branch of gonvenment there a company lol .
Exactly my point, if its creative with like plots and what not, i dont think you should have to pay for a rank or pay for worldedit or charge for permissions. Think thats silly and against the EULA act anyway!
But i agree its just users convenience.
Why? There is nothing wrong with worldedit, it gives you zero advantage..
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้
hmm lets see here... You can make gigantic walls in about 10 seconds, you get really no "great feeling" like you would if you built it legit in creative. You have a lot of advantage against vanilla creative. If you cant see the advantage of commands over no commands, then i dont know what to say...
Also, you quoted my post that had nothing to do with how advantageous worldedit was.
Going along with this, I wonder how they plan to monitor every single server to make sure they follow this rule. You don't HAVE to use buycraft. Also, I wonder if they will realize how big they dun goofed after every server needs to shut down
sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
Then I guess that just sucks for them when the server is gone. Life is like that. Maybe they'll learn something. I have been on one server that needed donations to keep going. As a reward people got stuff like a color for their name in chat, no gameplay-changing perks. People donated anyway. It can work.
The giant servers cost thousands to maintain. I've never stepped foot on one and I bet a lot of Minecraft players haven't either or didn't stay very long if they did get on. A server capable of handling a couple hundred players or less (the capacity for the vast majority of the thousands of servers in existence) can be had for $100 a month or less. Even cheaper if you have the ability to host from home. Plus not everyone requires income from a server (Minecraft or otherwise) to run it. Some of us have disposable income from other sources like a job or possess the hosting resources already.
I call melodrama on this. I've had several servers I play on die for varying reasons over the years. It sucks but I just go hunting for a new one and keep playing. So did most of the other players. I suppose some people are completely tied to their favorite server and without it there's no point to playing Minecraft at all anymore but I haven't met very many so far.
My Spigot/CraftBukkit plugins:
TallNether - Generate a 256-block high nether
FarLandsAgain - Restores the Far Lands
User: *BOOM* You're dead.
Cleverbot: I divide by zero and come back as an angel ninja.
I love the new EULA and I can/could get the content if I wanted to. The reason I like the EULA is because it removes the pay-to-win aspect, provides a better community, and gives a sense of equality. It could have its tweaks, but so can everything. I feel as if a lot (not all) are overreacting and acting like this is the end of the world. You don't even know how it's going to play out, or if Mojang is even going to enforce it this time.
Regardless if the content is Mojang's or not, you are still using Mojang's platform to make money. I also am curious why you like the "Pay-to-Win" aspect of the game. I can easily buy "Invisi kits" or anything a server can offer, but that isn't the point whether i can buy it or not. Its based on personal preference, but also equality. Do i care if they enforce it, not really because it doesn't affect me as much as it would to a person who plays Factions and Creative servers with OP build opportunity.
Also sorry if i made it sound apart of Minecraft, but i don't see how it isn't apart of Minecraft when you have it in a Minecraft Server.
When you install a plugin/mod to Minecraft, you obviously download it from some external source, but then where does that external source download/product get used..? Take a guess... Minecraft. Yeah it's not linked to the game, but right when you add something to Minecraft, it becomes part of the game.
You may ask: If you don't care about the EULA if it is enforced or not why are you striving to prove a point?
Very fair question, and i shall answer. I dont think i should have to pay for a mod/plugin that i can get free in my own server where i can make it free to everyone else and rely on real donations. I would much prefer people donating that enjoy the server and want the server to be up, then me being greedy and forcing people to pay for perm or rank to keep my server up.
I don't know what you were trying to say, but this is what you said.
I'm completely against pay-to-win, I prefer a majority of cosmetic items to be the VIP rewards, my point in this thread has mainly been to show that you can have paid perk features without a pay-to-win element, and in my opinion, worldedit, being as powerful but relatively unimportant to your creations as it is, is one of the perks that can be paid for without the ability to "win". Granted, I'd be willing to concede worldedit as a paid feature because of the griefing potential, but it does help show the possibility of paid perk features.
Same goes for my previous examples of VIP areas an VIP-only minigame rounds; paid users aren't "winning" because they get to play a round of Hypixel's bow spleef with other paid users.
To completely defend the EULA is to assume there are no grey areas not covered by the current enforcement changes. That's completely untrue; you can have perks that are not pay-to-win that are also not cosmetic: priority, private area access, and coin bundles are all examples of this.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
I like how you just reworded everything i just said. Also i am not "Completely" defending EULA as you say.
"in my opinion, worldedit, being as powerful but relatively unimportant to your creations as it is, is one of the perks that can be paid for without the ability to "win"
I do not want worldedit to be a perk of which you can purchase, my whole point in all my posts.
"That's completely untrue; you can have perks that are not pay-to-win that are also not cosmetic; priority, private area access, and coin bundles are all examples of this".
You can have perks all you want, but worldedit is pointless as a perk you have to purchase as it is a huge advantage. As for private area's and coin bundles, what is in this "private area"? Also the EULA doesn't allow purchase of soft currency for hard currency. That also includes bitcoins as a no go under the EULA.
Are there loopholes? Yeah probably, but my whole point i'm trying to make is not to make it sound like the EULA is flawless but to say that certain things shouldn't be charged for when i can make a server and rely on real donations from people who actually want the server to be up instead of forcing people to provide money to me so my server can stay up like i said in my previous post.
Perhaps we have different definitions of "defend". I'm not trying to be rude, it's ok to defend the EULA. I'm just arguing against it. You may not be defending it completely, no, you may have some issue that you have not mentioned, I'm just using those words to prove a point.
I noticed, yes.
You can have perks all you want, but worldedit is pointless as a perk you have to purchase as it is a huge advantage.
As I have been saying, I do not see it that way. It is a timesaver. I can build a giant wall in 10 seconds with worldedit, I can also build a giant wall with creative mode in 2 minutes. You cannot do anything with Worldedit that cannot be done with vanilla creative with some, often very little, effort. Therefore, because there is nothing you can do with worldedit that you can't do with vanilla, there is no advantage other than a small amount of time saved. Yes, this time saved goes up as the project becomes larger, but you can also request help from other people to shorten the amount of time. Overall, the time advantage is negligible.
As for private area's and coin bundles, what is in this "private area"?
I have detailed that in my previous posts. I'll reiterate; I believe a VIP area is not a pay-to-win advantage so long as the area has no bearing on the server's overall goal. For example, a story-based RPG server cannot have a town crucial to the plot locked by a paywall, they can, however, have a sidequest town or an area in which they can rest and socialize. Another example, a prison-based server cannot have a VIP area that houses the only shops for Lapis in the entire game without any method of giving free players to ability to sell Lapis, they can, however, have an area that houses VIP-only cells and shops. That is what I believe.
Also the EULA doesn't allow purchase of soft currency for hard currency. That also includes bitcoins as a no go under the EULA.
Are there loopholes?
Yes, that is what the EULA says, that is why I am arguing against that clause. I believe one loophole is if the items are purely cosmetic and the money is not affecting gameplay (I.E. on an economy server, you can give donors their own currency to purchase aesthetic items to their leisure, but this currency can't touch the currency used by everyone else), do not take my word for this.
Yeah probably, but my whole point i'm trying to make is not to make it sound like the EULA is flawless but to say that certain things shouldn't be charged for when i can make a server and rely on real donations from people who actually want the server to be up instead of forcing people to provide money to me so my server can stay up like i said in my previous post.
People who buy kits don't want your server to stay up? What is the difference between someone donating and someone buying a perk (provided the perk isn't pay-to-win)? One wants to give money to you without an incentive, the other wants to give you money in return for something. Do you believe that only the donator wants to see your server continue running?
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
See i agree with you on a lot of aspects of the server. I honestly don't have a problem charging for certain things but like you said above, worldedit isn't a big advantage which i'm starting to agree with now. But that also furthers my point on how it shouldn't be a perk you have to pay for either through priority, or any rank.
Side note: Wish i knew how to multi quote certain lines like you do.
The private areas like you made clear to me do make more sense to charge for. I think the issue i'm having is i have been on servers where they literally charge for everything... Like ranks, donator, priority, cosmetics, perks, perms. I just don't see how everything that is within the loopholes of the EULA should all of a sudden be okay to charge for.
As for the last quote there, to answer a few of your questions. Do i believe that only the donor wants to see my server running?
Well, the whole point of a donation in the Minecraft server spectrum is to provide money so the server owner has an easier way of paying for the next month. There will always be a difference between a real donator vs Purchaser/consumer. You also do have more incentive to obviously give money to someone if your getting something in return.
My honest look on it is, its your money you do what you want with it. But if we are looking at the EULA side of it, purchasing items and calling it donating is wrong.
Also EULA is a neutral idea for me, reason one would be to remove most of the pay to win aspect which is technically my biggest concern.
But also, if you want to spend your money on rank and stuff in a server you really like, go ahead. So im on the fence.
I may have contradicted myself but , i just am thinking of this from the most logical way possible now and if it effects me at all.
I copy-cut from the original quote, put some more quote tags, paste it in between and repeat.
I agree completely, there is a point where charging for things become silly. My problem is just that the EULA takes the nuclear option; instead of separating what's wrong with paid perks and what's fine, it destroys the idea of them entirely except for cosmetic items. As much as Mojang says "it's more lenient in comparison to the previous one" and so on, that doesn't justify taking the stance they did; there's only so much people can do with aesthetics; pets, hats, outfits, posters, and so on. That's the only problem I have.
[quote=Badgerz]You have to keep in mind that people are stupid.
[quote=Catelite]Just because you don't understand how something works, doesn't make it broken or pointless. >_<
Yeah exactly, im pretty much where your sitting then. I think that Mojang has taken the EULA to a whole other level and is making it not unfair but difficult. I think charging for certain items should be allowed as long as the price is reasonable.
They are enforcing it so might as well creep through the loopholes.
I currently do not run a server that provides any kind of services for me to make money but i wouldn't mind it. Message me please i got to ask you something!
Good discussion sir.
Not the way i work. People charge for things on servers that should not be charged for. If you cant agree, then disagree but stop reposting trying to be right.
Its all preference anyway, but the EULA is a good idea more then it is bad.