Stop putting words in my mouth please. I am not just all of the sudden "blindly" siding with Mojang or accepting anything.
I did this from day one, and my stance is still the same.
My idea of creating "content" for the community isn't a greedy server owner putting "kits", "perks", "titles" etc together, and labeling one group as a "paying" group, and another not.
If mod authors enjoy what they do, they will continue to make content, and accept donations for their work.
Your idea of content and mine is different.
So, you're a greedy player that wants to get custom content for free. Content that in many cases takes months of the creator's time and effort to create. You somehow deserve said content for free? I'm sorry, but this argument is just silly. You also generalize server owners as if all servers that offer perks for pay are somehow evil and greedy.
If you don't like these kinds of servers, why not you know...not play on them? Just because you don't like it, noone can have it? I don't care for sports, should all sports be made illegal because me and some of my friends don't enjoy them? Nope. I just don't watch them and don't go to their games. You can do the same with Minecraft servers.
This kind of response is exactly where I get my comment previously about people for the changes being jealous, because if people were not jealous of what other people had due to paying, they wouldn't make this kind of argument. If they seriously did not enjoy pay for perk, they'd just go to a server without it. Not demand the because they dislike it, noone should.
Picture it, you start looking for a server to join. You're looking and looking,what you see is "donate now and receive a sharpness 10 sword.
You just roll your eyes, thinking the owner is really desperate. But then you see 10 more,30 more,50 more saying the same thing.
Then you realize that there are way to many servers doing the same thing, drowning out servers who don't have to hawk in game items to stay afloat. Then you just give up disgust.
Yeah...
The rational approach to such a thing is to leave the server and find a server that you could enjoy more. Not demand that their community, which obviously enjoys said environment (by not leaving), should be shut down just because you disagree.
Honestly, GoldK, what does it matter to you? You don't want to play on a server where money can equal power, we get that. Why should noone be allowed to? If that happens to be an environment a chunk of the community prefers, who are you to say it is wrong? Them playing that way doesn't hurt you at all.
I would doubt those who cannot afford to spend a ton of money would enjoy it as much. Money = power is never a good way to go about stuff. Makes those who cannot spend money feel lesser.
I would doubt those who cannot afford to spend a ton of money would enjoy it as much. Money = power is never a good way to go about stuff. Makes those who cannot spend money feel lesser.
Honestly, if they stay on the server when they are not enjoying it, they are insane (repeating the same action and expecting different results). You can get to the "end" of Minecraft's tech tree within a day or two (or even a couple hours if you're lucky). Paying for a set of diamond armor is beneficial early on, but kinda becomes moot later. Many people probably are fine with just hunkering down, getting their own items and being able to compete perfectly fine with those that pay.
On the few pay for perk vanilla style servers I have played on in the past, that seemed to be the general opinion. Generally though, I saw more pay for perk features on servers that no longer had pure vanilla gameplay. They generally created classes with special abilities and changed how EXP was used, limited what you could build, etc. These servers sometimes had pay to unlock a class, pay for increased currency/EXP gain, etc. Generally these were reasonably priced and balanced such that they only offered a minor advantage and as there is still a max level, people didn't complain generally that those paying were "better" then those that weren't.
I'm not sure why my experience is so different, perhaps because the servers I played on had people that respected that said server costed quite a bit of money to maintain, and those that bought the perks were essentially paying for everyone else's enjoyment of the game, and in doing so, got a bit of a benefit.
So, you're a greedy player that wants to get custom content for free. Content that in many cases takes months of the creator's time and effort to create. You somehow deserve said content for free? I'm sorry, but this argument is just silly. You also generalize server owners as if all servers that offer perks for pay are somehow evil and greedy.
Don't pass on judgement. I have donated to several mod authors before for their work. I didn't expect anything in return because well, I know what the true meaning of a "donation" is. But I am also not a child, and have been around the block a few times.
If you don't like these kinds of servers, why not you know...not play on them? Just because you don't like it, noone can have it? I don't care for sports, should all sports be made illegal because me and some of my friends don't enjoy them? Nope. I just don't watch them and don't go to their games. You can do the same with Minecraft servers.
Trust me, I don't play on those types of servers. I have never expected or asked for anyone to help me fund my own server(s). If it was to grow outside of what I could afford, and handle, I would have to look at other options.
Not to mention, my friend has been hosting his own server since multiplayer was added in Minecraft, again he has never asked for any outside funding, and has done well.
This kind of response is exactly where I get my comment previously about people for the changes being jealous, because if people were not jealous of what other people had due to paying, they wouldn't make this kind of argument. If they seriously did not enjoy pay for perk, they'd just go to a server without it. Not demand the because they dislike it, noone should.
I am too old to be jealous. If people want to toss their money for stupid perks, it's their choice. I won't however.
The rational approach to such a thing is to leave the server and find a server that you could enjoy more. Not demand that their community, which obviously enjoys said environment (by not leaving), should be shut down just because you disagree.
Don't pass on judgement. I have donated to several mod authors before for their work. I didn't expect anything in return because well, I know what the true meaning of a "donation" is. But I am also not a child, and have been around the block a few times.
I only commented on how you presented yourself. If you do not wish to be perceived as such, perhaps you should present yourself in a different manner.
Trust me, I don't play on those types of servers. I have never expected or asked for anyone to help me fund my own server(s). If it was to grow outside of what I could afford, and handle, I would have to look at other options.
Not to mention, my friend has been hosting his own server since multiplayer was added in Minecraft, again he has never asked for any outside funding, and has done well.
I am too old to be jealous. If people want to toss their money for stupid perks, it's their choice. I won't however.
So, you don't play on such servers, and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did...why are you for these restrictions?
Sure, everyone has opinions, however, you haven't given a rational explanation as of yet. The only way I could take your previous post was that you were greedy yourself or jealous of those that could afford to pay. Since you've stated that neither of these cases are accurate, could you please explain why you support the restrictions in such a way that it doesn't come off as such?
I've yet to see a solid argument for the restrictions that would actually be beneficial. I agree that a EULA change is needed and that the current proposal is a step in the right direction, but I've yet to see any argument that restricting what a server is allowed to monetize is actually a good thing for the community as a whole.
To be honest, the two primary arguments I have seen for the restrictions is "I hate pay to win, so noone should have it," or "It's Mojang's game." The first argument is pointless as if you don't like pay to win (which I disagree that "win" is always the case, hence me using the phrase "pay for perk"), don't play on such servers. There are millions of servers our that and I'm sure at least a few thousand+ are not pay for perk. The second argument I don't debat, it is Mojang's game. However, that doesn't mean the restrictions are the right thing to do. I'm not about to blindly agree with something that I see only causing harm.
So, you don't play on such servers, and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did...why are you for these restrictions?
Look closely, see where you said, " and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did."
Because I am against taking advantage of people. I have morals, I am a country boy... To me, unreasonable costs is taking advantage of a player who doesn't know better by waving perks around "saying give me your money, I need it to pay my rent".
And as far as your first impression on me, join the mass
Look closely, see where you said, " and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did."
Because I am against taking advantage of people. I have morals, I am a country boy... To me, unreasonable costs is taking advantage of a player who doesn't know better by waving perks around "saying give me your money, I need it to pay my rent".
And as far as your first impression on me, join the mass
You do realize that the argument you present here is no better then the other two presented. This is akin to saying because a basketball player hurt someone, we should outlaw basketball. The majority of servers that use pay for perk mechanics aren't out to "cheat" people. They simply provide an option to the player. Are their servers that are out to cheat, sure! However, restricting the entire community because of a couple bad apples (even a hundred servers is small when compared to the millions of servers). This issue I touched on earlier in this thread, which you might have not seen...
This is a parental issue. Those that are two young to be able to rationally understand that they are being cheated, shouldn't be given free rein to be able to do so by their parents. If they are given as such either their parents are in error, or are trying to teach their child a lesson. Regardless, it is hardly a reason to restrict the community as a whole.
I do find the fact that you're actually hostile to people trying to make a living doing something they love. What about servers making a living from offering entertainment to others bothers you so much? I think I covered why I disagree with you quite well, is there anything more to debate between us?
I do find the fact that you're actually hostile to people trying to make a living doing something they love. What about servers making a living from offering entertainment to others bothers you so much? I think I covered why I disagree with you quite well, is there anything more to debate between us?
If they are trying to make a living on something that was never intended to be the case in the first place, all I can say is, I'm sorry.
If server admins would take the time to think, they might even have to scale down a little, this change could happen with minimum strain.
But all they see is the large profit $$$ signs. Bottom line.
I get my own entertainment from my server, and my friends server, we offer that entertainment free of charge to other players. They bought the game, that is the only charge they need in my opinion. I will also say, that when they request something, more chances then none, they get it, and without a fee.
I don't see any of them as just a number, I see them as "friends".
There is nothing left to discuss between us, because we aren't really getting anywhere, and I don't want things going too far.
If they are trying to make a living on something that was never intended to be the case in the first place, all I can say is, I'm sorry.
So, Youtubers and Twitch streamers should not be allowed to make a living from playing Minecraft either? It wasn't intended, but it happened. Second, obviously Mojang had nothing against server owners making a living off of hosting servers and selling perks because they invited said server owners to host a panel which discussed the very same topic (). If that's not official support, I'm not sure what is.
If server admins would take the time to think, they might even have to scale down a little, this change could happen with minimum strain.
But all they see is the large profit $$$ signs. Bottom line.
I get my own entertainment from my server, and my friends server, we offer that entertainment free of charge to other players. They bought the game, that is the only charge they need in my opinion. I will also say, that when they request something, more chances then none, they get it, and without a fee.
I don't see any of them as just a number, I see them as "friends".
There is nothing left to discuss between us, because we aren't really getting anywhere, and I don't want things going too far.
I just spoke with a server administrator for one of the large SkyBlock servers (second largest I believe), and was informed that they actually have quite reasonable cost -> benefit ratios for their server. So you're saying despite them being reasonable with their pay for perk system, they should be shut down?
You have servers that you enjoy, awesome! They are free of charge, great! However, what makes you think that just because someone tries to make a living from their server, that they cannot also enjoy the people as well? From what I've seen, many of the large server administrators are VERY involved in their server, running events, talking with other players, playing themselves, etc.
Again, where does all this anger towards people making money come from? You're lashing out against people you've never met without actually understanding them at all. Not everyone is evil, you know.
Did mojang made minecraft for people to make money out of it? No. It would be different if mojang encouraged people to make money from the start and then suddenly changed their statement. Those who will lose their "job" was their own mistake of making it a business when it was never meant to be just like those who made selling illegal drugs a business when the government forbids it. With the lack of p2w, you will need better features than ever so that people will pay and keep coming back for more. Who said you can't give the exclusive perks right now to everyone on the server so that everyone get to fully enjoy your server?
Actually Mojang did change their statement. You used to be able to sell plug ins for money. The old terms of use specifically mentioned that you could sell a plug in for money. Let's talk about what Minecraft was "for". The earliest versions of Minecraft had one surviving, mining underground for materials, and then taking said materials and building structures out of them. If he accept this as what Minecraft was "for", here's a quick list of things that should be removed from the game to prevent people from misusing it:
1) redstone
2) brewing
3) enchanting
4) command blocks
5) adventure mode
6) the End
7) temples, both jungle and dessert
8) the Nether
9) note blocks
10) books
11) mods
12) resource packs
13) all commands
14) creative mode
15) wood and wool color variants
16) adventure maps
17) minigame maps
18) pretty much every Minecraft server in existence
The list goes on and on. Do you disagree with people winning money from gaming tournaments? It doesn't matter if something wasn't "for" Minecraft when Minecraft was made, it is "for" Minecraft now.
Good things I can think off: it will kill elitism among the community. Elitism breeds hatred and unfairness in gameplay and it would be better if elitists don't exist. Servers won't rely anymore on power to sell but on the server content itself which means more people willing to innovate something so that people are more interested to play in their server and spend money to keep it alive. Power selling is as simple as donate money for a stack of diamond which can be done by literally just typing a command. No innovation whatsoever. Close knit community will return with small servers being much more common just like the old days. Everyone knows each other and everyone plays nice and cooperate in making projects. This kind of environment is what we should encourage.
I have three points for this. The first is that, shockingly, people don't like bad minigames. Server owners are already encouraged to innovate. If they make a better minigame, people are more likely to keep playing it, and thus, are more likely to donate. You seem to be under the impression that people log on to a server and then randomly dump cash onto it. I would think that people would AT LEAST see if they like said server before donating to it.
Second, there is an appeal to big servers and there is an appeal to small servers. I play on a few large servers and one small server. On a large server, everything (usually) runs smoothly so you can jump in and play a game with random people. The shear size of the player base makes each game unique. You also get to see a ton of new people. Some people prefer that over small servers. They might feel that there isn't enough to do on a small server or that it gets stale running into the same few people time and time again. Whatever it is, that is their personal choice. Their choice is just as valid as yours. Who are we to deny a fellow Minecrafter from doing what they love? You cannot force people to have fun your way. Everyone has fun in their own way, wether it be on large servers, small ones, LAN worlds, or just plain single player.
My third and final point is that this is not going to encourage small servers. It's going to hurt every server. Sure, big servers are going to feel it the most, but small servers will too. The server I play on is definitely a small server. We usually have less than five people online at a time. I enjoy this more than the large servers because you get to be someone. I know the owner, and he knows me. When my diamond horse armor got stolen from me by a plug in glitch, he trusted me and gave me a new set when I asked. He even gave me the Carrot of Justice (sharpness I and knockback I) after I told him that carrots and potatoes are going to be nerfed in 1.8. If that isn't the "close-knit community" you're talking about, I don't know what is. We've had to shut down twice now due to lack of funding even with this supposed instant millions selling power stuff (donators got to disguise as cows and got /enderchest and stuff like that). I did donate about 30$ to it out of good will. Your plan to support these small servers with the milieu you enjoy is to destroy a of their sources of income. The small servers are already facing pecuniary destruction, so how is this going to help? Yes, I use big words like milieu and pecuniary so I must be smart and know what I'm talking about.
Personally I think that Mojang should simply let servers sell perks like flying and such. Without this permission to do servers, all the main servers will crash. Cosmetics is worth about as much as dirt, or even less. What happens to all the small servers? Even the large ones will suffer.
Now all of the servers that have come to define minecraft are shutting down. Sadly, my server that I have been working on for months will never be able to open. I don't think I will be playing minecraft multiplayer on August 1st. Thanks Mojang.
Are you implying the minecraft community doesn't want public servers at all and only play to show off power? Why bother setting up servers for them anyway if they only use servers to be elitist and not because they genuinely like server contents? That insight of yours gave one more reason why we should support the EULA. I think this will be a wonderful step in stopping elitism in the community when public servers are gone.
Common sense is mojang allows priority access. Period. You are grasping at straws at this moment in trying to validate your claim that p2w is better than equal gameplay with limited server access for free users. If you ask me, I would rather play in a server where everyone has equal power and I have the option to pay if I find the server interesting enough to have access anytime. If I don't have money, I will just have to wait and play during less crowded time or camp until one free player leaves. The server owner also saves money by maximizing player slots and adjust the free slots size to adjust income to server popularity. Everyone wins.
With the upcoming changes, it won't be as easy to ask for donations which is why I am suggesting to use other means if you really want to help a charity. Minecraft charity is not as big as more traditional charity out there so it will barely have any effect in the grand scheme of things. Beside, not all servers are going to run for charity. You said it yourself servers need money to operate and the overwhelming majority of the server will be used for profit instead of charitable purposes.
Did mojang made minecraft for people to make money out of it? No. It would be different if mojang encouraged people to make money from the start and then suddenly changed their statement. Those who will lose their "job" was their own mistake of making it a business when it was never meant to be just like those who made selling illegal drugs a business when the government forbids it. With the lack of p2w, you will need better features than ever so that people will pay and keep coming back for more. Who said you can't give the exclusive perks right now to everyone on the server so that everyone get to fully enjoy your server?
Good things I can think off: it will kill elitism among the community. Elitism breeds hatred and unfairness in gameplay and it would be better if elitists don't exist. Servers won't rely anymore on power to sell but on the server content itself which means more people willing to innovate something so that people are more interested to play in their server and spend money to keep it alive. Power selling is as simple as donate money for a stack of diamond which can be done by literally just typing a command. No innovation whatsoever. Close knit community will return with small servers being much more common just like the old days. Everyone knows each other and everyone plays nice and cooperate in making projects. This kind of environment is what we should encourage.
What I am implying is that very few people will pitch in if they are not rewarded for doing so. If people did just help out because they liked a server, there would be no such thing as server monetization in the first place. Just because the community likes server content doesn't mean they will pay up, which sucks.
Apparently, you have a different definition of common sense then I do. My common sense tells me that not playing at all is not as fun as playing without extra perks. The answer is so ridiculously obvious I don't see how you can't see it. (Jee, that's a weird thought.) Maybe if I put it in green bold letters, you would understand.
Pay-to-win is better then pay-to-play because on pay-to-win servers, I can still lose for free, whereas on pay-to-play servers, I cannot play at all unless I pay.
And you cannot intelligently argue that being kicked from a server randomly does not affect gameplay at all, because it simply does. It puts a limit on time, (the thing you need to get in-game items) and interrupts gameplay a lot. Try turning off the power on your XBox at random times while you play. It's not very fun. Everyone wins except for the non paying players who used to be allowed to play on that server 24/7 and the company who makes the game.
As for your fourth paragraph, this will be a pretty long response. In-game purchases are not about making money; they are about helping pay for your server. Most servers don't make a profit, except for a few abusive ones. I don't really care about people losing their jobs, because I agree that running a server should not be the floor beneath your metaphorical feet. But you want to know who will lose the most money? I'll tell you it's freaking Mojang. Minecraft single player sucks a little bit. I mean, it's not that bad, it's just really dull, and limited. Do you really think a game with pixels the size of bristlin balls would have sold without a good community? I've only ever seen one half-decent Youtube series about single player gameplay (God bless Kurtjmac), and that's simply because it is not nearly as interesting as multiplayer. And you know Farlands or Bust is mainly interesting because of the commentary.
You say it'll kill elitism, but there will still be server admins and moderators who have more power than the other people. You say servers will have to rely on selling content rather than power, but you seem to have forgotten something in the new EULA. Servers cannot sell content. A quote from the interview: "No, you cannot charge for any part of a server other than the initial access." I don't know what gave you the impression that you could, but I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Nobody will be able to innovate on their server if it is to expensive to keep running.
And finally, you used your personal preference as an argument. You said you like tiny, less interesting communities where creations are severely limited by the collective free time of twenty or so people. (Sorry, I was paraphrasing ha ha.) But you get my point, right? Bigger servers can be more exciting, more developed, and more eventful and that's why most people prefer them. Removing an optional feature of the game due to your opinion is not necessarily a good idea. I say that all types of servers have their advantages, and therefore they all should be allowed to exist.
Picture it, you start looking for a server to join. You're looking and looking,what you see is "donate now and receive a sharpness 10 sword.
You just roll your eyes, thinking the owner is really desperate. But then you see 10 more,30 more,50 more saying the same thing.
Then you realize that there are way to many servers doing the same thing, drowning out servers who don't have to hawk in game items to stay afloat. Then you just give up disgust.
Yeah...
I would be quicker to give up if all of the servers were "Donate now just to join the game."
Look closely, see where you said, " and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did."
Because I am against taking advantage of people. I have morals, I am a country boy... To me, unreasonable costs is taking advantage of a player who doesn't know better by waving perks around "saying give me your money, I need it to pay my rent".
And as far as your first impression on me, join the mass
It is the consumers' responsibility to make smart financial choices. Personally, I don't agree with pay-to-win, but I'm fine with pay-for-perk.
If they are trying to make a living on something that was never intended to be the case in the first place, all I can say is, I'm sorry.
If server admins would take the time to think, they might even have to scale down a little, this change could happen with minimum strain.
But all they see is the large profit $$$ signs. Bottom line.
I get my own entertainment from my server, and my friends server, we offer that entertainment free of charge to other players. They bought the game, that is the only charge they need in my opinion. I will also say, that when they request something, more chances then none, they get it, and without a fee.
I don't see any of them as just a number, I see them as "friends".
There is nothing left to discuss between us, because we aren't really getting anywhere, and I don't want things going too far.
mind telling us how big your server is and how much it costs monthly? or let me gues..you run it from home for free on your computer?
servers like hypixel.shotbow, Mineplex, The Hive; they cant live on solid donations alone...they cost like over $1,000 ..sometimes closer to $5-$10K to run in some places... Id like to see you pay that with no outside help while still working your job, paying utility bills at home, feeding your family etc
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
I have been doing some research and I think EULA that Mojang are bringing out is the best possible thing they could have done. That's not to say it is a good thing. Let me explain.
Mojang could just continue to do what they are doing right now. Having a EULA against making any money but not enforcing it.
The problem: Some people will blame mojang for Pay To Win servers and kids will keep stealing their parents credit cards , servers will keep increasing prices for stuff , more servers will follow the Pay to Win model etc. etc. until someone is going to sue someone (possible mojang) for this. And don't act like that wouldn't happen because it could happen and there for will happen at some point.
Another thing mojang could do is just enforce the old EULA on certain servers that are abusing mojangs "trust".
The problem: For one thing there are so many servers out there that it would be very hard to find the bad apples as it were. Also. Servers could complain about Mojang enforcing the EULA only on certain servers. And again , they could possible be sued for that. (Remember: You can sue anyone, You don't need to show they are breaking a law or EULA or anything like that). It could also very quickly divide up the community.
Another thing mojang could do is have a sort of "License" to sell stuff on servers.
The problem: A server would fundamentally have to obtain a License before it could even start unless it had massive capital. There would also be so many people applying for these licenses that it would overwhelm Mojang.
Another thing Mojang could do is just enforce the old EULA , But I don't thing I need to explain why that would be bad.
I know that some people want more specific rules that would allow micro transactions for gameplay-affecting stuff but would prevent pay to win. The problem with that is it is nearly impossible to define "Pay to Win" in a legal document. Some people want there to be a cap on how much you can spend on a gameplay-affecting feature. The problem with that is the server could just simply make it so you need , lets say 1000 of those to make it work well and again , it would be nearly impossible to define that behaviour in a legal document.
With this EULA. They will loose a lot of servers , but not all of them , they may get a lot of people angry , but not nearly as many as they would have if they had gone for any of the other options. And in a few months or so , no-one will really be actively angry. No one will try and sue anyone else. (Well , they might still , but there is a very VERY slim chance). So , in the end it is the best option for Mojang and the community , but maybe not the server owners.
Also. A note on what I mean by Pay To Win:
I know Minecraft is a sandbox game and there is no way to win. What I am talking about when I say Pay To Win is the idea , rather than what it physically is. The Idea being you will need to pay to progress , compete or continue.
I know what you mean, but I think it would've been best if Mojang had taken a more surgical approach. They could've enforce the new EULA only on pay-to-win servers. In other words, make all pay-for-perk servers illegal, but only screw up the worst offenders.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Location:
Both here
Join Date:
1/5/2012
Posts:
245
Location:
and there at once.
Minecraft:
same as this one
Xbox:
Don't have one
PSN:
Don't want one
Member Details
Let me point out another problem with pay to play: it will drive away even more potential players than you would think. Surely everyone here has bought some kind of game or product that was advertised to be amazing, but when you opened it up it turned out to be terrible. Less people are going to want to invest in a server if they can't try it out first. After all, the server owner can put anything they want on the forum post.
Let me point out another problem with pay to play: it will drive away even more potential players than you would think. Surely everyone here has bought some kind of game or product that was advertised to be amazing, but when you opened it up it turned out to be terrible. Less people are going to want to invest in a server if they can't try it out first. After all, the server owner can put anything they want on the forum post.
and from this, i can many people scamming young kids, even more than before.
*fake example MC forum post*
Join our awesome server!
we have many fun things such as
skywars
spleef
The Walls
Our own version of Shotbow's Annihilation
a call of duty zombies replica!
Hardcore factions
hardcore survival
regular survival
regular factions
Hide and seek/ block hunt
10 new parkour maps
friendly owners!
ranks obtainable without cash!
And best of all, a reallly great kid friendly community!
This server will cost you $200 USD a month to join. AAnd dont worry, thats a normal cost!
*End fake MCV forum post*
Now the kid steals parents credit card, pays the fee to enter , only to find out the IP is fake and it was a scam. Mojang gets angry letters from parents, the cycle continues as before the EULA changes / uprising
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
Everyone! Think about it? Even if you don't donate, or a non-donator just like me, ask yourself why do you prefer this New Eula? This destroys creativity and the amount of free roam that minecraft has created! Thats what makes it special, don't you ever feel that donating or buying for things makes a part of minecraft and entertainment inside it even though you don't/can't get them?
I strongly disagree with the new EULA.
I agree with you 100%. When I played on a city server a while back, the most fun thing I remembered about it was that I tried to become just as good as the donators. With everyone being the same on the new servers, it will quickly become bland. The donator vs. non-donator diversity is what really made that server fun. I guarantee that if I went on that server and everyone was the same, I would have only played for 5 minutes and I would have been done.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumSo, you're a greedy player that wants to get custom content for free. Content that in many cases takes months of the creator's time and effort to create. You somehow deserve said content for free? I'm sorry, but this argument is just silly. You also generalize server owners as if all servers that offer perks for pay are somehow evil and greedy.
If you don't like these kinds of servers, why not you know...not play on them? Just because you don't like it, noone can have it? I don't care for sports, should all sports be made illegal because me and some of my friends don't enjoy them? Nope. I just don't watch them and don't go to their games. You can do the same with Minecraft servers.
This kind of response is exactly where I get my comment previously about people for the changes being jealous, because if people were not jealous of what other people had due to paying, they wouldn't make this kind of argument. If they seriously did not enjoy pay for perk, they'd just go to a server without it. Not demand the because they dislike it, noone should.
The rational approach to such a thing is to leave the server and find a server that you could enjoy more. Not demand that their community, which obviously enjoys said environment (by not leaving), should be shut down just because you disagree.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumHonestly, if they stay on the server when they are not enjoying it, they are insane (repeating the same action and expecting different results). You can get to the "end" of Minecraft's tech tree within a day or two (or even a couple hours if you're lucky). Paying for a set of diamond armor is beneficial early on, but kinda becomes moot later. Many people probably are fine with just hunkering down, getting their own items and being able to compete perfectly fine with those that pay.
On the few pay for perk vanilla style servers I have played on in the past, that seemed to be the general opinion. Generally though, I saw more pay for perk features on servers that no longer had pure vanilla gameplay. They generally created classes with special abilities and changed how EXP was used, limited what you could build, etc. These servers sometimes had pay to unlock a class, pay for increased currency/EXP gain, etc. Generally these were reasonably priced and balanced such that they only offered a minor advantage and as there is still a max level, people didn't complain generally that those paying were "better" then those that weren't.
I'm not sure why my experience is so different, perhaps because the servers I played on had people that respected that said server costed quite a bit of money to maintain, and those that bought the perks were essentially paying for everyone else's enjoyment of the game, and in doing so, got a bit of a benefit.
Don't pass on judgement. I have donated to several mod authors before for their work. I didn't expect anything in return because well, I know what the true meaning of a "donation" is. But I am also not a child, and have been around the block a few times.
Trust me, I don't play on those types of servers. I have never expected or asked for anyone to help me fund my own server(s). If it was to grow outside of what I could afford, and handle, I would have to look at other options.
Not to mention, my friend has been hosting his own server since multiplayer was added in Minecraft, again he has never asked for any outside funding, and has done well.
I am too old to be jealous. If people want to toss their money for stupid perks, it's their choice. I won't however.
We all have opinions.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumI only commented on how you presented yourself. If you do not wish to be perceived as such, perhaps you should present yourself in a different manner.
So, you don't play on such servers, and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did...why are you for these restrictions?
Sure, everyone has opinions, however, you haven't given a rational explanation as of yet. The only way I could take your previous post was that you were greedy yourself or jealous of those that could afford to pay. Since you've stated that neither of these cases are accurate, could you please explain why you support the restrictions in such a way that it doesn't come off as such?
I've yet to see a solid argument for the restrictions that would actually be beneficial. I agree that a EULA change is needed and that the current proposal is a step in the right direction, but I've yet to see any argument that restricting what a server is allowed to monetize is actually a good thing for the community as a whole.
To be honest, the two primary arguments I have seen for the restrictions is "I hate pay to win, so noone should have it," or "It's Mojang's game." The first argument is pointless as if you don't like pay to win (which I disagree that "win" is always the case, hence me using the phrase "pay for perk"), don't play on such servers. There are millions of servers our that and I'm sure at least a few thousand+ are not pay for perk. The second argument I don't debat, it is Mojang's game. However, that doesn't mean the restrictions are the right thing to do. I'm not about to blindly agree with something that I see only causing harm.
Look closely, see where you said, " and are old enough to not be cheated by unreasonable costs even if you did."
Because I am against taking advantage of people. I have morals, I am a country boy... To me, unreasonable costs is taking advantage of a player who doesn't know better by waving perks around "saying give me your money, I need it to pay my rent".
And as far as your first impression on me, join the mass
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumYou do realize that the argument you present here is no better then the other two presented. This is akin to saying because a basketball player hurt someone, we should outlaw basketball. The majority of servers that use pay for perk mechanics aren't out to "cheat" people. They simply provide an option to the player. Are their servers that are out to cheat, sure! However, restricting the entire community because of a couple bad apples (even a hundred servers is small when compared to the millions of servers). This issue I touched on earlier in this thread, which you might have not seen...
This is a parental issue. Those that are two young to be able to rationally understand that they are being cheated, shouldn't be given free rein to be able to do so by their parents. If they are given as such either their parents are in error, or are trying to teach their child a lesson. Regardless, it is hardly a reason to restrict the community as a whole.
I do find the fact that you're actually hostile to people trying to make a living doing something they love. What about servers making a living from offering entertainment to others bothers you so much? I think I covered why I disagree with you quite well, is there anything more to debate between us?
If they are trying to make a living on something that was never intended to be the case in the first place, all I can say is, I'm sorry.
If server admins would take the time to think, they might even have to scale down a little, this change could happen with minimum strain.
But all they see is the large profit $$$ signs. Bottom line.
I get my own entertainment from my server, and my friends server, we offer that entertainment free of charge to other players. They bought the game, that is the only charge they need in my opinion. I will also say, that when they request something, more chances then none, they get it, and without a fee.
I don't see any of them as just a number, I see them as "friends".
There is nothing left to discuss between us, because we aren't really getting anywhere, and I don't want things going too far.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Curse PremiumSo, Youtubers and Twitch streamers should not be allowed to make a living from playing Minecraft either? It wasn't intended, but it happened. Second, obviously Mojang had nothing against server owners making a living off of hosting servers and selling perks because they invited said server owners to host a panel which discussed the very same topic (). If that's not official support, I'm not sure what is.
I just spoke with a server administrator for one of the large SkyBlock servers (second largest I believe), and was informed that they actually have quite reasonable cost -> benefit ratios for their server. So you're saying despite them being reasonable with their pay for perk system, they should be shut down?
You have servers that you enjoy, awesome! They are free of charge, great! However, what makes you think that just because someone tries to make a living from their server, that they cannot also enjoy the people as well? From what I've seen, many of the large server administrators are VERY involved in their server, running events, talking with other players, playing themselves, etc.
Again, where does all this anger towards people making money come from? You're lashing out against people you've never met without actually understanding them at all. Not everyone is evil, you know.
Again, there is nothing left to discuss between us.
We have different opinions, that's that.
1) redstone
2) brewing
3) enchanting
4) command blocks
5) adventure mode
6) the End
7) temples, both jungle and dessert
8) the Nether
9) note blocks
10) books
11) mods
12) resource packs
13) all commands
14) creative mode
15) wood and wool color variants
16) adventure maps
17) minigame maps
18) pretty much every Minecraft server in existence
The list goes on and on. Do you disagree with people winning money from gaming tournaments? It doesn't matter if something wasn't "for" Minecraft when Minecraft was made, it is "for" Minecraft now.
I have three points for this. The first is that, shockingly, people don't like bad minigames. Server owners are already encouraged to innovate. If they make a better minigame, people are more likely to keep playing it, and thus, are more likely to donate. You seem to be under the impression that people log on to a server and then randomly dump cash onto it. I would think that people would AT LEAST see if they like said server before donating to it.
Second, there is an appeal to big servers and there is an appeal to small servers. I play on a few large servers and one small server. On a large server, everything (usually) runs smoothly so you can jump in and play a game with random people. The shear size of the player base makes each game unique. You also get to see a ton of new people. Some people prefer that over small servers. They might feel that there isn't enough to do on a small server or that it gets stale running into the same few people time and time again. Whatever it is, that is their personal choice. Their choice is just as valid as yours. Who are we to deny a fellow Minecrafter from doing what they love? You cannot force people to have fun your way. Everyone has fun in their own way, wether it be on large servers, small ones, LAN worlds, or just plain single player.
My third and final point is that this is not going to encourage small servers. It's going to hurt every server. Sure, big servers are going to feel it the most, but small servers will too. The server I play on is definitely a small server. We usually have less than five people online at a time. I enjoy this more than the large servers because you get to be someone. I know the owner, and he knows me. When my diamond horse armor got stolen from me by a plug in glitch, he trusted me and gave me a new set when I asked. He even gave me the Carrot of Justice (sharpness I and knockback I) after I told him that carrots and potatoes are going to be nerfed in 1.8. If that isn't the "close-knit community" you're talking about, I don't know what is. We've had to shut down twice now due to lack of funding even with this supposed instant millions selling power stuff (donators got to disguise as cows and got /enderchest and stuff like that). I did donate about 30$ to it out of good will. Your plan to support these small servers with the milieu you enjoy is to destroy a of their sources of income. The small servers are already facing pecuniary destruction, so how is this going to help? Yes, I use big words like milieu and pecuniary so I must be smart and know what I'm talking about.
There's a difference between a hero and a champion. A champion overcomes threats, but a hero overcomes fears.
All my maps, click here.
Then there's also a Youtube channel I'm somewhat involved in.
Discontented.
Link Removed
Become A BETA Tester
Become A Builder
Apparently, you have a different definition of common sense then I do. My common sense tells me that not playing at all is not as fun as playing without extra perks. The answer is so ridiculously obvious I don't see how you can't see it. (Jee, that's a weird thought.) Maybe if I put it in green bold letters, you would understand.
Pay-to-win is better then pay-to-play because on pay-to-win servers, I can still lose for free, whereas on pay-to-play servers, I cannot play at all unless I pay.
And you cannot intelligently argue that being kicked from a server randomly does not affect gameplay at all, because it simply does. It puts a limit on time, (the thing you need to get in-game items) and interrupts gameplay a lot. Try turning off the power on your XBox at random times while you play. It's not very fun. Everyone wins except for the non paying players who used to be allowed to play on that server 24/7 and the company who makes the game.
As for your fourth paragraph, this will be a pretty long response. In-game purchases are not about making money; they are about helping pay for your server. Most servers don't make a profit, except for a few abusive ones. I don't really care about people losing their jobs, because I agree that running a server should not be the floor beneath your metaphorical feet. But you want to know who will lose the most money? I'll tell you it's freaking Mojang. Minecraft single player sucks a little bit. I mean, it's not that bad, it's just really dull, and limited. Do you really think a game with pixels the size of bristlin balls would have sold without a good community? I've only ever seen one half-decent Youtube series about single player gameplay (God bless Kurtjmac), and that's simply because it is not nearly as interesting as multiplayer. And you know Farlands or Bust is mainly interesting because of the commentary.
You say it'll kill elitism, but there will still be server admins and moderators who have more power than the other people. You say servers will have to rely on selling content rather than power, but you seem to have forgotten something in the new EULA. Servers cannot sell content. A quote from the interview: "No, you cannot charge for any part of a server other than the initial access." I don't know what gave you the impression that you could, but I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Nobody will be able to innovate on their server if it is to expensive to keep running.
And finally, you used your personal preference as an argument. You said you like tiny, less interesting communities where creations are severely limited by the collective free time of twenty or so people. (Sorry, I was paraphrasing ha ha.) But you get my point, right? Bigger servers can be more exciting, more developed, and more eventful and that's why most people prefer them. Removing an optional feature of the game due to your opinion is not necessarily a good idea. I say that all types of servers have their advantages, and therefore they all should be allowed to exist. I would be quicker to give up if all of the servers were "Donate now just to join the game."
mind telling us how big your server is and how much it costs monthly? or let me gues..you run it from home for free on your computer?
servers like hypixel.shotbow, Mineplex, The Hive; they cant live on solid donations alone...they cost like over $1,000 ..sometimes closer to $5-$10K to run in some places... Id like to see you pay that with no outside help while still working your job, paying utility bills at home, feeding your family etc
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
There's a difference between a hero and a champion. A champion overcomes threats, but a hero overcomes fears.
All my maps, click here.
Then there's also a Youtube channel I'm somewhat involved in.
and from this, i can many people scamming young kids, even more than before.
*fake example MC forum post*
Join our awesome server!
we have many fun things such as
skywars
spleef
The Walls
Our own version of Shotbow's Annihilation
a call of duty zombies replica!
Hardcore factions
hardcore survival
regular survival
regular factions
Hide and seek/ block hunt
10 new parkour maps
friendly owners!
ranks obtainable without cash!
And best of all, a reallly great kid friendly community!
This server will cost you $200 USD a month to join. AAnd dont worry, thats a normal cost!
*End fake MCV forum post*
Now the kid steals parents credit card, pays the fee to enter , only to find out the IP is fake and it was a scam. Mojang gets angry letters from parents, the cycle continues as before the EULA changes / uprising
Animes I've Watched/am watching - Sword art online , Fairy Tale , FMA Brotherhood, InuYasha
I agree with you 100%. When I played on a city server a while back, the most fun thing I remembered about it was that I tried to become just as good as the donators. With everyone being the same on the new servers, it will quickly become bland. The donator vs. non-donator diversity is what really made that server fun. I guarantee that if I went on that server and everyone was the same, I would have only played for 5 minutes and I would have been done.
Become A BETA Tester
Become A Builder