The thing is that it wasn't such a common thing back when servers started, but now that it is, Mojang's had enough of letting it happen, and is taking steps to put a stop to it. It's better for them to enforce the EULA when violators are becoming an actual problem, than to never do it at all.
It isn't a problem Erik made it abundantly clear that there was no problem. "
[3/06/2014 10:06:00 PM] Erik Broes: Minecraft still sells 10k+ copies a day."
Minecraft is so much more then just a video game, it has had such a bigger effect on people then what people realize. Plenty of people (mostly young children) have said it was their dream to own a minecraft server, I as a host have had the privilege, and the honor to watch that dream come true. If you could watch the reaction on my nephews face when someone told him that his server was being taken away, and people in this thread say that his server shouldn't exist because people don't like it to donate without benefits. Do you forget the reason we bought this game, that lego-like sensation of creativity. That didn't happen in single player, my fondest memories of the game are due to servers that existed because of 'donations.' I am willing to bet it is the same for everyone that posted in this thread. Mojang should realize that, make it easier do donation licenses or something. I love enforcing my ToS as much as mojang likes enforcing their ELUA, but I enforce my ToS 24/7/365.25 they are just now talking about doing it.
It isn't a problem Erik made it abundantly clear that there was no problem. "
[3/06/2014 10:06:00 PM] Erik Broes: Minecraft still sells 10k+ copies a day."
Minecraft is so much more then just a video game, it has had such a bigger effect on people then what people realize. Plenty of people (mostly young children) have said it was their dream to own a minecraft server, I as a host have had the privilege, and the honor to watch that dream come true. If you could watch the reaction on my nephews face when someone told him that his server was being taken away, and people in this thread say that his server shouldn't exist because people don't like it to donate without benefits. Do you forget the reason we bought this game, that lego-like sensation of creativity. That didn't happen in single player, my fondest memories of the game are due to servers that existed because of 'donations.' I am willing to bet it is the same for everyone that posted in this thread. Mojang should realize that, make it easier do donation licenses or something.
I love enforcing my ToS as much as mojang likes enforcing their ELUA, but I enforce my ToS 24/7/365.25 they are just now talking about doing it.
When they get so many emails from parents about their children spending "hundreds" of dollars on these servers, and they can do nothing to reverse it, then it becomes a problem. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say about your nephew, but if you're simply talking about donations without incentive I.e. diamond sword for $5, then you have nothing to worry about. An actual donation, with nothing given in return other than a "thank you" or something that doesn't originate from minecraft's code (like a keychain or something) is perfectly fine as far as the EULA is concerned.
Hm, this situation has really been blown out of proportion just a bit, it's a real shame people can't just take some time and understand what the situation at hand is instead of signing things with these insane sense of entitlement backing it. Really, all it is that Mojang finally emphasized that people were violating the terms (that were always there and have been getting violated) that so many other games have, and that people agreed to without reading. If anything, it would make so much more sense to apologize and cease the action which is violating the terms, you know, show some damn respect for the work that Mojang put into making this game.
If you really want to know how I feel, I personally admit I know very little of the situation at hand as well, but that wouldn't give me the right to just assume Mojang is shutting down servers and other such nonsense just for no reason. People, just if you like a server, just donate and not get anything in return, as that is what a donation is, contrary to these exchanges of real world currency for virtual content.
So for those of you that are well mannered/respectable/etc. people, have a good night, and for the others blindly supporting this petition to essentially allow server owners to make money off of Minecraft and Mojang's efforts, shame on you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"A sword yields no power if the person who wields it holds no courage."
Exactly. Mojang wouldn't do anything to destroy the multiplayer community, they simply want to stop people who are abusing the system.
Wrong. If you haven't noticed, a project that Mojang has been working on recently, has finally gone fully live: https://minecraft.net/realms
So now that this new Mojang hosting service exists, what does that make all the private 1.7 vanilla multiplayer servers that people have been running on their own from Intreppid/Staminus and so forth?
Competition.
And what will Mojang do to make sure it starts raking in the cash from its new hosting service? Well for one, it will change the rules of engagement to make it extremely hard for the private servers to continue to operate.
I don't think this EULA change issue "suddenly surfaced" in the last week.
Rather it's very likely that these changes have been in the works for probably months, when Mojang first decided it wanted a piece of the hosting pie, and they're just breaking the ice slowly so that it isn't a huge sudden surprise when the new and much more restrictive EULA rolls out.
They don't want just a piece of the multiplayer hosting pie. They want most of it, for themselves
It's just rational that this is what Mojang will do to maximize profit from this new hosting venture of theirs.
Wrong. If you haven't noticed, a project that Mojang has been working on recently, has finally gone fully live: https://minecraft.net/realms
So now that this new Mojang hosting service exists, what does that make all the private 1.7 vanilla multiplayer servers that people have been running on their own from Intreppid/Staminus and so forth?
Competition.
And what will Mojang do to make sure it starts raking in the cash from its new hosting service? Well for one, it will change the rules of engagement to make it extremely hard for the private servers to continue to operate.
I don't think this EULA change issue "suddenly surfaced" in the last week.
Rather it's very likely that these changes have been in the works for probably months, when Mojang first decided it wanted a piece of the hosting pie, and they're just breaking the ice slowly so that it isn't a huge sudden surprise when the new and much more restrictive EULA rolls out.
They don't want just a piece of the multiplayer hosting pie. They want most of it, for themselves
It's just rational that this is what Mojang will do to maximize profit from this new hosting venture of theirs.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Sorry, you're right. This sudden change in how they will now "start enforcing the existing rules that they never strictly enforced before" (no actual "changes" being made), and which will make hosting private servers much more difficult, has absolutely nothing to do with the brand-new hosting service that Mojang just finally finished rolling out worldwide on May 19th.
I'm sure they're having no troubles at all finding people to sign up for their service that's only 3 weeks old, and there's no possible conflict of interest here of Mojang possibly trying to drive people to move from existing private servers onto Realms.
Let me start off by saying this, "Mojang is in its complete right to enforce its EULA, as well as change it to better clarify what they want the community to be able to do."
That being said, I think this is a negative move overall. The reasons are numerous and many have been explained here, however, one thing I haven't really seen is, "Why is Mojang stepping in for what should really be a parental issue?" Honestly, the main argument I see against servers offering micro-payment features is that servers are preying on children. Why are the children being allowed to purchase things on said servers at all? What parent looks at the ridiculous prices that these so called "ripoff servers" charge and say, "Alright honey, I'll buy you that." Seriously, this is a parenting issue and not something that Mojang should mess with at all.
Another issue I haven't seen people mention is the fact that not all servers that offer paid content use MC's assets (IP) in a vanilla way at all. I've personally played on a couple servers that changed the entire game into a RPG by altering how items/blocks worked via plugins. These servers may add EXP, Currency, Classes, etc. all of which use content that they made. Some of these servers even go as far as offering a server texture pack that alters every texture in the game. Why should Mojang control what is essentially a completely custom experience that from what I can tell, the community of said experience is completely fine with?
Not all servers are bad guys, just some. Many of the large servers couldn't continue to function if they were constantly abusing children. It would be talked about, people would get upset (just like people are in this thread) and they would refuse to continue to play on such server. I'd hazard a bet that a large majority of the P2W players are actually adults or older teens with part-time or full-time jobs who use the pay feature to keep up with other players (or even their own children). The sad fact is you're not going to hear about these positive experiences as people don't talk, they play.
The people complaining are either parents who don't want to discipline/monitor their own children, children who don't have the money to afford said perks, or people who didn't like the experience they had on a specific server or two and now want to take it out on everyone (rather then just find a server they actually mesh well with). I've personally played on multiple servers, some P2W, some not. My experience has not been negative at all generally. If I do have a negative experience, I'm mature enough to just go to a server that I enjoy instead, there are thousands out there you know.
All in all, I respect Mojang's right to do this, but I think it's wrong. Why should anyone but a server owner control the experience on their own server?
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
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Also, on private servers, Mojang has no control over purchases and has no direct involvement. On Realms, Mojang is in full control of purchases and has ability to do refunds directly themselves in disputes.
And while WE are apparently not going to be allowed to give perks/items for donations, this does not prevent Mojang itself from eventually setting up items or perks for sale on Realms. The rules we must follow in their EULA, don't need to be the rules they follow, as it is their Intellectual Property, to do with as they please.
I could also see Mojang deciding that perks for donations is acceptable..... if they get a cut of the money, and are sufficiently in control to be able to do refunds to parents, and to claw back the money from public server owners. "All perks for donations must now be through our new 'MojangPal' payment processing service, and we take a 25% cut off the top."
- So much Youtubers earn money through Minecraft, many more climbing up the ladder at a rapid speed. How do you stop them?
- You have no idea how much Minecraft torrents there are.
- How do you know if someone could have sold Minecraft in a different language?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you think my answer was nice, subscribe to my YouTube Channel and [+] me! Thanks!
Visit our server!
I could also see Mojang deciding that perks for donations is acceptable..... if they get a cut of the money, and are sufficiently in control to be able to do refunds to parents, and to claw back the money from public server owners. "All perks for donations must now be through our new 'MojangPal' payment processing service, and we take a 25% cut off the top."
I think this would be a terrible move, and I think server developers would be better off moving to a MC clone (there are many) over trying to work with Mojang like that. The reason I say this is because it will essentially allow Mojang to make the judgment as to how powerful your perks are, because if you charge too much, you lose your 'MojangPal' account and can no longer sell perks (effectively gutting your income).
Honestly, my recommendation to large servers with income to support paying developers is that if Mojang follows though, you should invest in your own engine and continue business as usual. Honestly, there are many open source applications to work from and your community is generally based around your content, not Mojang's specifically...so its not much of a loss.
All that's trying to be said here is that It's mojang's doog gone given RIGHT to enforce a EULA! Had this EULA been enforced 1st thing Minecraft was launched, there wouldn't be such a big deal! Jeez! And servers are not going to die!
-They can pay for hosting if hosting is needed at all for e.g. you have a spre computer at home
-Ever heard of youtube partnership? Yeah, people rake in thousands upon thousands, if not millions every year as far as big youtubers.
-For example, Mineplex team has many people on it, and one of them is CaptainSparklez. A team alone is enough to handle the server.
-And depedning on your age and determination, there's a little thing called a job
-There's also a thing known as allowances
-There is much more to this, but I'll cut this section off here
-Also, if it really costs that much, the hostings really need to drop the prices, cause' they be smoking turds
Notch/Mojang is simply enforicing this rule to prevent people making money off THEIR game! This is also to make it fair for people who don't simply have hundreds of bucks just lying around to be spent on A SERVER. Also, some of the things that donorship offers just breaks Minecraft's purpose in survival mode. And being donor get your own private lobby, stacks of diamonds, twice as many classes as non donors in games, among other blasphemy.
Markus is in full right to enforce this, as it is better for the community, Minecraft itself, and Mojang. Enough of your blabbering and deal with it.
Great, so the new server EULA exception says that you can't charge for ranks or game mechanics, just for entry. So now servers will be charging for entry. No money, no entry. I thought Mojang was a small indie company that got rich off of a wildly successful game but still humbly acts as an indie developer. INDIE DEVELOPERS DO NOT DO THIS CRAP!
The item is part of the game, which you can still access on your own server, or singleplayer. What I'm trying to say is that specific server isn't part of the game, so you aren't entitled to anything from that server.
You bought the ability to play Singleplayer, and Multiplayer. You can still do both of those things regardless if people charge for items or not.
I can't believe you're seriously making this argument.
When you set up a server you're under obligation to have all the game's content available for any player in the server, for free, you can't get them behind "donations". The game content is not your property to resell for players that already paid for them, doing so is nothing but a scam.
You can charge for access to the server, since the server is your property, but you can't restrict game content from players once they're in it.
Great, so the new server EULA exception says that you can't charge for ranks or game mechanics, just for entry. So now servers will be charging for entry. No money, no entry. I thought Mojang was a small indie company that got rich off of a wildly successful game but still humbly acts as an indie developer. INDIE DEVELOPERS DO NOT DO THIS CRAP!
Yea, I kinda doubt a lot of servers are going to opt for an up front access charge. You would need to be a really popular large server to pull that off and even then it might be the end of you as a server.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
Most I ever heard of.. You can make money of their stuff (selling blocks/pets/particle effects), but not your own gameplay features!?
By not selling OP swords and armor and other sorts of unfair junk. Hats and pets are all you need, not a "Look how rich I am" Op sword.
I also didnt see anything about custom game modes sadly, I guess crappy mini game servers are here to stay.
We need pure survival and creative servers again, not Survival light (Hunger Games, Factions, Prison) or HURR HURR SHOOT DA SQUID BUDDER!
"Of course Mojang is not gonna monitor every friggin server. Only servers that break the rules will be reported by the people that play on it. If all players playing on it are fine with it, it will probably go unnoticed and the rules will not be enforced.
Not sure how Mojang is gonna handle all the reports and enforce it. Thing is that they can make quite a lot of money off of your server if it breaks the rules and you get into a legal dispute, which they WILL win because you accepted their rules when you started up a server.
They have made the rules, and could as well say "no more independent servers, blanket ban for every server ever" and even disable minecraft multiplayer functionality except if Realms or something. Be happy that that didn't happen in the first place.
If you say "I don't give a rat's ass", ignore the rules, and have the bad luck that Mojang catches wind of it, runs a simple IP trace, reports it to local authorities who can investigate further, you can expect a heapload of legal trouble just for some extra few dollars/euros/whatever.
It's a "scare rule", it's likely impossible to enforce on a large scale, but the consequences of its enforcements should keep server owners on their toes and make them wonder if it's really worth it."
Yea, I kinda doubt a lot of servers are going to opt for an up front access charge. You would need to be a really popular large server to pull that off and even then it might be the end of you as a server.
This is worse than we think. Since selling the perks was illegal, many rich people will sue servers for refunds, putting more servers out of business than Mojang ever could.
It isn't a problem Erik made it abundantly clear that there was no problem. "
[3/06/2014 10:06:00 PM] Erik Broes: Minecraft still sells 10k+ copies a day."
Minecraft is so much more then just a video game, it has had such a bigger effect on people then what people realize. Plenty of people (mostly young children) have said it was their dream to own a minecraft server, I as a host have had the privilege, and the honor to watch that dream come true. If you could watch the reaction on my nephews face when someone told him that his server was being taken away, and people in this thread say that his server shouldn't exist because people don't like it to donate without benefits. Do you forget the reason we bought this game, that lego-like sensation of creativity. That didn't happen in single player, my fondest memories of the game are due to servers that existed because of 'donations.' I am willing to bet it is the same for everyone that posted in this thread. Mojang should realize that, make it easier do donation licenses or something. I love enforcing my ToS as much as mojang likes enforcing their ELUA, but I enforce my ToS 24/7/365.25 they are just now talking about doing it.
When they get so many emails from parents about their children spending "hundreds" of dollars on these servers, and they can do nothing to reverse it, then it becomes a problem. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say about your nephew, but if you're simply talking about donations without incentive I.e. diamond sword for $5, then you have nothing to worry about. An actual donation, with nothing given in return other than a "thank you" or something that doesn't originate from minecraft's code (like a keychain or something) is perfectly fine as far as the EULA is concerned.
Hm, this situation has really been blown out of proportion just a bit, it's a real shame people can't just take some time and understand what the situation at hand is instead of signing things with these insane sense of entitlement backing it. Really, all it is that Mojang finally emphasized that people were violating the terms (that were always there and have been getting violated) that so many other games have, and that people agreed to without reading. If anything, it would make so much more sense to apologize and cease the action which is violating the terms, you know, show some damn respect for the work that Mojang put into making this game.
If you really want to know how I feel, I personally admit I know very little of the situation at hand as well, but that wouldn't give me the right to just assume Mojang is shutting down servers and other such nonsense just for no reason. People, just if you like a server, just donate and not get anything in return, as that is what a donation is, contrary to these exchanges of real world currency for virtual content.
So for those of you that are well mannered/respectable/etc. people, have a good night, and for the others blindly supporting this petition to essentially allow server owners to make money off of Minecraft and Mojang's efforts, shame on you.
Wrong. If you haven't noticed, a project that Mojang has been working on recently, has finally gone fully live:
https://minecraft.net/realms
So now that this new Mojang hosting service exists, what does that make all the private 1.7 vanilla multiplayer servers that people have been running on their own from Intreppid/Staminus and so forth?
Competition.
And what will Mojang do to make sure it starts raking in the cash from its new hosting service? Well for one, it will change the rules of engagement to make it extremely hard for the private servers to continue to operate.
I don't think this EULA change issue "suddenly surfaced" in the last week.
Rather it's very likely that these changes have been in the works for probably months, when Mojang first decided it wanted a piece of the hosting pie, and they're just breaking the ice slowly so that it isn't a huge sudden surprise when the new and much more restrictive EULA rolls out.
They don't want just a piece of the multiplayer hosting pie. They want most of it, for themselves
It's just rational that this is what Mojang will do to maximize profit from this new hosting venture of theirs.
Read the first page. The EULA has never changed.
I'm sure they're having no troubles at all finding people to sign up for their service that's only 3 weeks old, and there's no possible conflict of interest here of Mojang possibly trying to drive people to move from existing private servers onto Realms.
Nothing to see here folks, move along.
That being said, I think this is a negative move overall. The reasons are numerous and many have been explained here, however, one thing I haven't really seen is, "Why is Mojang stepping in for what should really be a parental issue?" Honestly, the main argument I see against servers offering micro-payment features is that servers are preying on children. Why are the children being allowed to purchase things on said servers at all? What parent looks at the ridiculous prices that these so called "ripoff servers" charge and say, "Alright honey, I'll buy you that." Seriously, this is a parenting issue and not something that Mojang should mess with at all.
Another issue I haven't seen people mention is the fact that not all servers that offer paid content use MC's assets (IP) in a vanilla way at all. I've personally played on a couple servers that changed the entire game into a RPG by altering how items/blocks worked via plugins. These servers may add EXP, Currency, Classes, etc. all of which use content that they made. Some of these servers even go as far as offering a server texture pack that alters every texture in the game. Why should Mojang control what is essentially a completely custom experience that from what I can tell, the community of said experience is completely fine with?
Not all servers are bad guys, just some. Many of the large servers couldn't continue to function if they were constantly abusing children. It would be talked about, people would get upset (just like people are in this thread) and they would refuse to continue to play on such server. I'd hazard a bet that a large majority of the P2W players are actually adults or older teens with part-time or full-time jobs who use the pay feature to keep up with other players (or even their own children). The sad fact is you're not going to hear about these positive experiences as people don't talk, they play.
The people complaining are either parents who don't want to discipline/monitor their own children, children who don't have the money to afford said perks, or people who didn't like the experience they had on a specific server or two and now want to take it out on everyone (rather then just find a server they actually mesh well with). I've personally played on multiple servers, some P2W, some not. My experience has not been negative at all generally. If I do have a negative experience, I'm mature enough to just go to a server that I enjoy instead, there are thousands out there you know.
All in all, I respect Mojang's right to do this, but I think it's wrong. Why should anyone but a server owner control the experience on their own server?
And while WE are apparently not going to be allowed to give perks/items for donations, this does not prevent Mojang itself from eventually setting up items or perks for sale on Realms. The rules we must follow in their EULA, don't need to be the rules they follow, as it is their Intellectual Property, to do with as they please.
I could also see Mojang deciding that perks for donations is acceptable..... if they get a cut of the money, and are sufficiently in control to be able to do refunds to parents, and to claw back the money from public server owners. "All perks for donations must now be through our new 'MojangPal' payment processing service, and we take a 25% cut off the top."
- So much Youtubers earn money through Minecraft, many more climbing up the ladder at a rapid speed. How do you stop them?
- You have no idea how much Minecraft torrents there are.
- How do you know if someone could have sold Minecraft in a different language?
Visit our server!
I think this would be a terrible move, and I think server developers would be better off moving to a MC clone (there are many) over trying to work with Mojang like that. The reason I say this is because it will essentially allow Mojang to make the judgment as to how powerful your perks are, because if you charge too much, you lose your 'MojangPal' account and can no longer sell perks (effectively gutting your income).
Honestly, my recommendation to large servers with income to support paying developers is that if Mojang follows though, you should invest in your own engine and continue business as usual. Honestly, there are many open source applications to work from and your community is generally based around your content, not Mojang's specifically...so its not much of a loss.
-They can pay for hosting if hosting is needed at all for e.g. you have a spre computer at home
-Ever heard of youtube partnership? Yeah, people rake in thousands upon thousands, if not millions every year as far as big youtubers.
-For example, Mineplex team has many people on it, and one of them is CaptainSparklez. A team alone is enough to handle the server.
-And depedning on your age and determination, there's a little thing called a job
-There's also a thing known as allowances
-There is much more to this, but I'll cut this section off here
-Also, if it really costs that much, the hostings really need to drop the prices, cause' they be smoking turds
Notch/Mojang is simply enforicing this rule to prevent people making money off THEIR game! This is also to make it fair for people who don't simply have hundreds of bucks just lying around to be spent on A SERVER. Also, some of the things that donorship offers just breaks Minecraft's purpose in survival mode. And being donor get your own private lobby, stacks of diamonds, twice as many classes as non donors in games, among other blasphemy.
Markus is in full right to enforce this, as it is better for the community, Minecraft itself, and Mojang. Enough of your blabbering and deal with it.
Figured it was time for a change.
https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/
Most I ever heard of.. You can make money of their stuff (selling blocks/pets/particle effects), but not your own gameplay features!?
I can't believe you're seriously making this argument.
When you set up a server you're under obligation to have all the game's content available for any player in the server, for free, you can't get them behind "donations". The game content is not your property to resell for players that already paid for them, doing so is nothing but a scam.
You can charge for access to the server, since the server is your property, but you can't restrict game content from players once they're in it.
But i can see why you're making this argument, since you yourself profit from the scam: http://shilocraft.buycraft.net/
Also, a protip: If you give something back for a donation, it's no longer a donation.
By not selling OP swords and armor and other sorts of unfair junk. Hats and pets are all you need, not a "Look how rich I am" Op sword.
I also didnt see anything about custom game modes sadly, I guess crappy mini game servers are here to stay.
We need pure survival and creative servers again, not Survival light (Hunger Games, Factions, Prison) or HURR HURR SHOOT DA SQUID BUDDER!
"Of course Mojang is not gonna monitor every friggin server. Only servers that break the rules will be reported by the people that play on it. If all players playing on it are fine with it, it will probably go unnoticed and the rules will not be enforced.
Not sure how Mojang is gonna handle all the reports and enforce it. Thing is that they can make quite a lot of money off of your server if it breaks the rules and you get into a legal dispute, which they WILL win because you accepted their rules when you started up a server.
They have made the rules, and could as well say "no more independent servers, blanket ban for every server ever" and even disable minecraft multiplayer functionality except if Realms or something. Be happy that that didn't happen in the first place.
If you say "I don't give a rat's ass", ignore the rules, and have the bad luck that Mojang catches wind of it, runs a simple IP trace, reports it to local authorities who can investigate further, you can expect a heapload of legal trouble just for some extra few dollars/euros/whatever.
It's a "scare rule", it's likely impossible to enforce on a large scale, but the consequences of its enforcements should keep server owners on their toes and make them wonder if it's really worth it."
Quality also would matter more if it was payment.
Is this a legal loophole? You can charge for entry but you can ban them no matter what?
https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation/