I recently began speedrunning minecraft after seeing there were races of it at speedrunslive, and I noticed that there was no official leaderboards, and a couple runners at speedrunslive confirmed it. So after some work and talking with other players to make some basic rules, there is this Work In Progress leaderboard
What I am looking for is for opinions on rules (to add, remove, or change them) and categories missing, and times.
Anyone interested can submit their times for the current categories or add new ones in the form. Categories can be seen by clicking the tabs on top, each category has their own rules and all follow the general rules. There's a link to submit the time that will lead to a form to fill.
I also need one or two run reviewers to help me review the runs before adding them to the leaderboards.
Anyone interested in helping or just giving their opinion please reply to this topic.
For Minecraft to be able to be speedrun, a common seed is required because random world makes for ridiculously unfair speedrunning. There would be barely any skill required, it's all on "did you get a good seed?" That's not interesting. This needs a common seed so that everyone can learn where things are in it and then make routes to make the time as efficient as possible. RNG is really frustrating for a speedrunner, so doing do will take a massive chunk of it out. For the categories, some of them are pointless, like the armor one and the cake one. They're not really interesting. Also, it should be separated by difficulty, like Any% Easy, Normal and Hard. Finally, the glitched one is kind of pointless, since there's not really any game breaking glitch that could give you for example full diamond armor or ender pearl or something like that. Anyway, that's my 2 cent, tell me what you think of this. I'm really interested into speedrunning this game.
Thanks for taking your time to reply, I'll respond to the points you adressed in order.
The seed issue is somehting that was expected to be a matter of diuscussion. I talked about it to a few others, and most agreed that random seed was better. I suggested we could add the 'any% NG+/pre-generated' or something category, but that idea was quickly shot down because of the problems it would bring to get a seed that everyone was confortable with. I will try to make a summary of the arguments supporting a random seed that I got:
-Any% means finishing the game from start to beginning as if it was the first time starting a new game, the first time you play minecraft it is a random seed, if you use a pre-generated seed it would be the equivalent of new game+ category (again, it could be an extra category).
-Minecraft is a game about surviving in a new unknown open world, not about memorizing where the stronghold is in a seed and blazing to it. (Good point)
-There are other games with much more RNG and less skill needed that people speedrun, like minesweeper, where it all comes down to mine placement and sometimes to a ridiculous 50/50; or pokémon, where it's all about your starter stats, finding a pokémon you need, your enocounters, not missing your attack or that your opponent doesn't use an attack that kills the run, and people speedrun even monopoly and clue. (I agree a bit with this one, compared to other games, there are less resets due to RNG in minecraft. In pokemon you can be forced to reset pretty much anywhere during the 3-6 hour run because of an unlucky crit, in Zelda OOT 100% you lose about 3 hours of WR pace run because of dampé heart piece RNG, in GTA theres always a chance of cars going boom or running over you and even a plane falling on you and exploding with missions depending on spawning ultra rare cars, in yugioh games it's just getting your cards. In Minecraft after you find the nether fortress (1:40:00 in a REALLY BAD run) only dying would force you to reset. So it's not as RNG as people tend to think.)
I think that the any% category should be a random seed, but I would like to have an extra category with pregenerated seed, but we'd need to find a way so that people agree on what makes a good seed for that category, some will want the stronghold right below, others will want it far, others will want diamonds in the chests in the stronghold, and others will say it's too cheap. If we let every runner use the seed they want, they'll just get one where they spawn in the stronghold surrounded by ender eyes or something. I really want that category, but I can't think of a way to make it work. If we can find one, that category will be added on the spot.
For the categories, I just added the most raced categories in Speedrunslive plus the any%'s and the 100% equivalent (all achievements). Usually speedrunners let the any% one be any difficulty because it's just supposed to be the fastest way to beat the game, we can put this to voting, but IMO the only one that needs a separate category is hardcore, because it's a deathless run locked in hard and glitchless because it's on previous versions.
Any% Glitchless is not pointless, if you check the category rules you'll see it can be played in any version. In earlier versions (1.2.x I think) you could easily duplicate items by some process that involved dropping them and resetting (i think) which means that instead of having to mine for lots of stuff and killing lots of mobs, you only need to get 1 or 2 of each and reset over and over to get that you need, basically: 1 ender pearl + 1 blaze rod + wood + bow + a couple arrows + 1 iron + optional diamond = .done in glitched.
For the topic of RNG, my point was to minimize the RNG as possible, like it has been done in a lot of games. The thing is for example the LoZ OOT run, yes there's the part with the Heart, but they don't do it because it's fun, they do it because they don't have a choice. If they found a way to bypass it, pretty much all the speedrunner would do that.
The same applies to Minecraft. It's not really fun to lose a run because the game decided to be an ass and not generate a Nether fortress for 500+ around you. But we can bypass this. A common seed enable us to know where is the fortress, and thus prevents us from losing time wandering around. And it's not cheating or anything, When you start a world the game gives you the possibility to use a seed or to recreate a world so that you start from the beginning with "0%" (there's no real percentage count in the game) in an world that you know.
Anyway, if enough people still prefer a random seed, I won't force it. A new category could be the solution.
Finally, for the choice of the seed, simple solution. Start a world a take the seed that has been given. Nothing fancy, no favoritism, the game decided for everyone.
A new category is the solution. Watching AGDQ, noticed a speedrunner I wasn't aware about, he runs minecraft 'any% set seed' with glitches (a category I presume he made himself), where the runner can use any seed they want. I'll be adding that category both glitched and glitchless, and will work on getting the game to generate an average seed to add a common seed category (I say average because I think we don't want to spawn in a desert or taiga with no resources). I'll also go dig up some World Records to add them to the leaderboards.
So speed running is attempting to complete a game as fast as possible? Interesting... I normally don't speed run games simply because I prefer to thoroughly enjoy games, but I can see the merit in this.
At least it provides a challenge... I'll be watching this thread.
Like The_Survi0r said, the same seed or map should be the standard for all MC speed runs, or possibly a custom map series could be the standard.
The 'Any%common seed' category is now on the leaderboards! Who will be the first one to attempt a run? (not me xd)
Surprisingly, using 'speedrunning' as the seed provides a nice spawn that seems neutral enough. You spawn surrounded by resources, the stronghold is about 700 metres away if you go in a straight line, and accessing nether from a portal at the spawn or stronghold (only tested those :P) will put you not far form a fortress. Anyone that doesn't agree with using this seed is welcome to express themselves.
Also, there are some world record times for a few categories already (any% hardcore, any% set seed glitched, and enter nether), check the leaderboards to watch them.
I'm fine with the change. I would suggest though that you had a set seed for "All achievement" too and also specify version 1.7, as achievement were different prior.
I'm fine with the change. I would suggest though that you had a set seed for "All achievement" too and also specify version 1.7, as achievement were different prior.
Thanks for telling me about the achievements, I totally forgot about it. Added 'All achievements common seed' (speedrunning, because I like that seed) and specified that it's from 1.7 onwards.
Is your goal to beat the Wither and the Enderdragon or just the Enderdagon?
The goal is to match the requirement of the category to stop the timer. For any% categories is getting to the end exit portal, so just ender dragon. So far, the only category that requires facing a Wither is All Achievements.
Hi, I like the concept of speedrunning minecraft. Both with and without random seed. Personally, I play hardcore with random seed (but I suck).
Anyways, I have a couple of comments.
First, under statistics you have a timer, shouldn't this be used?
Second, when watching hemboheros world record for hardcore/random I noticed that his computer was lagging. But, it seemed like this gave him an advantage, because it made it possible to see the endermen through the terrain. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Cheers!
Hi, I like the concept of speedrunning minecraft. Both with and without random seed. Personally, I play hardcore with random seed (but I suck).
Anyways, I have a couple of comments.
First, under statistics you have a timer, shouldn't this be used?
No because this RTA, or Real Time Attack. Sometimes the in-game clock is inaccurate or does not take account some things, like cutscene (more of an issue in others games). Also, if a glitch would require to leave the world and reenter it. the in-game time would not consider this. So at the end, an external timer is more accurate and prevents lost time in the calculation.
Hi, I like the concept of speedrunning minecraft. Both with and without random seed. Personally, I play hardcore with random seed (but I suck). Anyways, I have a couple of comments. First, under statistics you have a timer, shouldn't this be used? Second, when watching hemboheros world record for hardcore/random I noticed that his computer was lagging. But, it seemed like this gave him an advantage, because it made it possible to see the endermen through the terrain. Do you have any thoughts on this? Cheers!
RTA means real time attack. Using in-game clock would allow you to do stuff like save&quit, leave the game all the time you wanted and come back to it later, which goes against the purpose of an RTA.
Hembohero had no way to control when his computer lagged, and he played by all the rules. So I don't see any problem with his run. Even if someone were to set their computer so it lagged more than usual, it'd be pointless because it'd bring slowness in general in other places in the run.
Can you use phone clocks? cause i cant download things i dont trust (time keepers)
You can use any clock you want to time it. Your video doesn't even need to have timer on it. It's recommended as it makes verification easier and faster, but it's by no means mandatory.
That's a good point phyyl. I'm willing to add the 'Mine diamond' category. Which would be just obtain diamond with generate structures off. Just be aware that there won't be much competition on that category in a beginning since most runners dont' think on turning off that option.
The category will have a spot on the leaderboards as soon as a run of it gets sent (same applies for the 'obtain/mine emerald' category).
https://docs.google....9qanJHT2c&gid=1
What I am looking for is for opinions on rules (to add, remove, or change them) and categories missing, and times.
Anyone interested can submit their times for the current categories or add new ones in the form. Categories can be seen by clicking the tabs on top, each category has their own rules and all follow the general rules. There's a link to submit the time that will lead to a form to fill.
I also need one or two run reviewers to help me review the runs before adding them to the leaderboards.
Anyone interested in helping or just giving their opinion please reply to this topic.
The seed issue is somehting that was expected to be a matter of diuscussion. I talked about it to a few others, and most agreed that random seed was better. I suggested we could add the 'any% NG+/pre-generated' or something category, but that idea was quickly shot down because of the problems it would bring to get a seed that everyone was confortable with. I will try to make a summary of the arguments supporting a random seed that I got:
-Any% means finishing the game from start to beginning as if it was the first time starting a new game, the first time you play minecraft it is a random seed, if you use a pre-generated seed it would be the equivalent of new game+ category (again, it could be an extra category).
-Minecraft is a game about surviving in a new unknown open world, not about memorizing where the stronghold is in a seed and blazing to it. (Good point)
-There are other games with much more RNG and less skill needed that people speedrun, like minesweeper, where it all comes down to mine placement and sometimes to a ridiculous 50/50; or pokémon, where it's all about your starter stats, finding a pokémon you need, your enocounters, not missing your attack or that your opponent doesn't use an attack that kills the run, and people speedrun even monopoly and clue. (I agree a bit with this one, compared to other games, there are less resets due to RNG in minecraft. In pokemon you can be forced to reset pretty much anywhere during the 3-6 hour run because of an unlucky crit, in Zelda OOT 100% you lose about 3 hours of WR pace run because of dampé heart piece RNG, in GTA theres always a chance of cars going boom or running over you and even a plane falling on you and exploding with missions depending on spawning ultra rare cars, in yugioh games it's just getting your cards. In Minecraft after you find the nether fortress (1:40:00 in a REALLY BAD run) only dying would force you to reset. So it's not as RNG as people tend to think.)
I think that the any% category should be a random seed, but I would like to have an extra category with pregenerated seed, but we'd need to find a way so that people agree on what makes a good seed for that category, some will want the stronghold right below, others will want it far, others will want diamonds in the chests in the stronghold, and others will say it's too cheap. If we let every runner use the seed they want, they'll just get one where they spawn in the stronghold surrounded by ender eyes or something. I really want that category, but I can't think of a way to make it work. If we can find one, that category will be added on the spot.
For the categories, I just added the most raced categories in Speedrunslive plus the any%'s and the 100% equivalent (all achievements). Usually speedrunners let the any% one be any difficulty because it's just supposed to be the fastest way to beat the game, we can put this to voting, but IMO the only one that needs a separate category is hardcore, because it's a deathless run locked in hard and glitchless because it's on previous versions.
Any% Glitchless is not pointless, if you check the category rules you'll see it can be played in any version. In earlier versions (1.2.x I think) you could easily duplicate items by some process that involved dropping them and resetting (i think) which means that instead of having to mine for lots of stuff and killing lots of mobs, you only need to get 1 or 2 of each and reset over and over to get that you need, basically: 1 ender pearl + 1 blaze rod + wood + bow + a couple arrows + 1 iron + optional diamond = .done in glitched.
The same applies to Minecraft. It's not really fun to lose a run because the game decided to be an ass and not generate a Nether fortress for 500+ around you. But we can bypass this. A common seed enable us to know where is the fortress, and thus prevents us from losing time wandering around. And it's not cheating or anything, When you start a world the game gives you the possibility to use a seed or to recreate a world so that you start from the beginning with "0%" (there's no real percentage count in the game) in an world that you know.
Anyway, if enough people still prefer a random seed, I won't force it. A new category could be the solution.
Finally, for the choice of the seed, simple solution. Start a world a take the seed that has been given. Nothing fancy, no favoritism, the game decided for everyone.
At least it provides a challenge... I'll be watching this thread.
Like The_Survi0r said, the same seed or map should be the standard for all MC speed runs, or possibly a custom map series could be the standard.
IP: mc.deadmandungeons.com
[Mod] Ex2c ~ Deadman Dungeons
Surprisingly, using 'speedrunning' as the seed provides a nice spawn that seems neutral enough. You spawn surrounded by resources, the stronghold is about 700 metres away if you go in a straight line, and accessing nether from a portal at the spawn or stronghold (only tested those :P) will put you not far form a fortress. Anyone that doesn't agree with using this seed is welcome to express themselves.
Also, there are some world record times for a few categories already (any% hardcore, any% set seed glitched, and enter nether), check the leaderboards to watch them.
Video uploading soonish.
Sometimes I stream here
I speedrun Super Mario 64
https://www.reddit.com/user/techdolphin
#BAUM4EXILE2014
:^)
HELP CAPSLOCK KEY FELL OFF IT SWITCHES ON AND OFF, HELP PLS.
Thanks for telling me about the achievements, I totally forgot about it. Added 'All achievements common seed' (speedrunning, because I like that seed) and specified that it's from 1.7 onwards.
Nice, I'll be expecting the submission.
The goal is to match the requirement of the category to stop the timer. For any% categories is getting to the end exit portal, so just ender dragon. So far, the only category that requires facing a Wither is All Achievements.
Anyways, I have a couple of comments.
First, under statistics you have a timer, shouldn't this be used?
Second, when watching hemboheros world record for hardcore/random I noticed that his computer was lagging. But, it seemed like this gave him an advantage, because it made it possible to see the endermen through the terrain. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Cheers!
Easier access like this and it's a format a lot of speedruners use.
No because this RTA, or Real Time Attack. Sometimes the in-game clock is inaccurate or does not take account some things, like cutscene (more of an issue in others games). Also, if a glitch would require to leave the world and reenter it. the in-game time would not consider this. So at the end, an external timer is more accurate and prevents lost time in the calculation.
RTA means real time attack. Using in-game clock would allow you to do stuff like save&quit, leave the game all the time you wanted and come back to it later, which goes against the purpose of an RTA.
Hembohero had no way to control when his computer lagged, and he played by all the rules. So I don't see any problem with his run. Even if someone were to set their computer so it lagged more than usual, it'd be pointless because it'd bring slowness in general in other places in the run.
You can use any clock you want to time it. Your video doesn't even need to have timer on it. It's recommended as it makes verification easier and faster, but it's by no means mandatory.
The category will have a spot on the leaderboards as soon as a run of it gets sent (same applies for the 'obtain/mine emerald' category).