You do realize that the first half of the fight is supposed to be with ranged weapons, right? This is a simplified form of the thought process that should have occurred.
1) So I can't reach it.
2) I need to reach it to kill it.
3) RANGED WEAPONS!
Instead, going by the part I quoted, it looks like you went:
1) Cannot reach the boss.
2) NEEDS TO BE EASIER!
Seriously, judging by the videos I've seen of people fighting the Wither and from a few tests I ran to see how it would go, the Wither isn't unreasonably difficult. Yes, it is more difficult to kill than any other mob in the game but even moderate preparation and creativity seems to make it doable.
You obviously didn't read my post. Especially the part where I said that he hovers right over me. Blasting with me a constant stream of wither skulls. Making it hard to shoot, since to shoot a bow I have to stand still, and while standing still I can't dodge explosive projectiles. I'm not sure how you could jump to such a conclusion.
I beat the Wither in survival alot, diamond armor, and diamond sword. I had a bow, and a gold apple. Its useful to use a bow in the first half, then, charge at it from behind, and click non stop. He'll push back, and His shots will most likely miss. I have 2 nether stars, and a beacon block. This was not on my main world, it was my non legit one, but the fight was legit.
I've said it before, and i'll say it again. The Wither is indeed hard, but he is not needing a nerf; merely a change.
The Wither is pretty limited in terms of attacks; he pretty much just nukes your face until it dies or you're dead. That's it. The Wither skulls are pretty hard to dodge, so if you don't have really good equipment you'll inevitably die.
That's not a good enough boss. Where's the challenge if your victory is practically predetermined? There's no strategy; all you need is full diamond armor, a Strength II potion, a Health II splash potion, and plenty of food. Just run at him on a flat surface and spam the left mouse button like it was any other mob that you had to kill. Sounds fun? In my mind, no.
Compare a game that has good bosses; the Legend of Zelda. Pretty much every game in the series (besides the first and parts of the second) have exceptional bosses. Take, for an example, Rebonack; the boss of the third temple in the second game. Compared to the Wither, he seems rather mundane; he's a pixelated knight on a horse, whereas the Wither is a pixelated demon skeleton thing.
Rebonack has two stages; one where he's charging you down on a horse, and one where he's fighting you on foot.
The Wither has two stages; one where he takes damage from arrows and one where he doesn't. (As if they were viable; he closes distance quickly and is just as deadly from a range as up close, whereas you're weaker from a distance.)
Rebonack's first stage composes of him on a horse trying to charge him down. You have to jump over him and stab him on the head with your sword enough times to get to the next stage.
The Wither's first stage composes of him trying to blow you up. They deal a lot of damage, and they'll kill you very quickly if you wear any armor besides diamond. You have to hit him with your sword, shoot him with your bow, or throw enough healing splash potions at him to get to the next stage.
Rebonack's second stage composes of him trying to kill you on foot. He's clad in heavy armor, he has a shield, and he has a sword. He'll swing his sword at you regardless of how far away you are from him, but it doesn't matter because his sword shoots lasers (fortunately they can be blocked with a shield). Your sword can do the same, but only when you're at full health. Not like it matters, as he's immune to your lasers. You have to get up close to him to hit him, as you have no ranged options. Don't worry, though, as he's still hard as heck; his shield can block all of your attacks, but your shield cannot block his. He'll move his shield to match your attack, but if you're lucky, his timing will be off and you'll score a hit. You have to do this eight or so times or so before you finally kill him.
The Wither's second stage composes of him trying to blow you up. They deal a lot of damage, and they'll kill you very quickly if you wear any armor besides diamond. This time he's glowing, and he's immune to your arrows. You have to hit him with your sword or throw enough healing splash potions at him to finish him off.
The Wither boss fight:
Rebonack boss fight:
Zelda II was created in early 1987 for the NES.
The Wither was created in mid 2012 for the modern PC (the sort capable of handling games like Crysis).
The Wither, as a boss, was outclassed in terms of complexity by a boss made 25 years prior on vastly inferior hardware.
Come on, Mojang. You can do better than that, can't you? All you need to do is give it more attacks (seriously, the only mob with multiple attacks is the Blaze, and all it has in addition to it's normal attack is contact damage), make it have a unique attribute (besides a variant of poison), and in general make it different from every other mob in the game.
This I agree with completely. The title of my thread is probably unfortunately misleading; the difficulty the wither is right now is fine. I only want something that's challanging, and not something you have to brute-force through. I understand that minecraft right now is more about building stuff, but that does not mean that it can't have unique mobs. I think each mob should be unique, and have different attacks. Similar to Zelda, like you said.
IMO Wither is just ''lets just nuke the Sun on you so you can't breath and die'' As everybody said, there is no skill or strategy involving, aside from the arena building thing, i personally didnt fight it yet, but watched tons of videos and am pretty aware of his attacks and etc. They should at least make a cooldown to his attacks, so you can actually hit him without going against the exploding heads rain
You obviously didn't read my post. Especially the part where I said that he hovers right over me. Blasting with me a constant stream of wither skulls. Making it hard to shoot, since to shoot a bow I have to stand still, and while standing still I can't dodge explosive projectiles. I'm not sure how you could jump to such a conclusion.
I misinterpreted what you meant by hovering above you. I was just saying how it sounded with that interpretation.
There is a large flaw in your idea that the whither should be skill based : Minecraft, as a game, is not about skill-based combat. It is, as you said, a game that requires material collection and management to thrive. If minecraft had legit blocking and such or something like than, then maybe we could change it a bit. But I don't think that the minecraft combat model in it's current state would support anything more then shooting and slashing at something trying to kill you.
There is a large flaw in your idea that the whither should be skill based : Minecraft, as a game, is not about skill-based combat. It is, as you said, a game that requires material collection and management to thrive. If minecraft had legit blocking and such or something like than, then maybe we could change it a bit. But I don't think that the minecraft combat model in it's current state would support anything more then shooting and slashing at something trying to kill you.
Well, we can make it about skill-based combat as well as material collection. Best of both worlds. Besides, blocking is already present in the game, and I'm sure the rest could be added without much difficulty.
When the Adventure update came out, Minecraft changed a lot. A billion pvp servers came on, and we had running and crits and enchants and all this crazy stuff. Minecraft is becoming more and more pvp based, and i like it.
There was always some pvp, but I hardly think it's the end all be all of what Minecraft should be or is becoming. It's expanding in all sorts of ways. Just because they decided to toss you pvp fans a bone doesn't mean it's suddenly a hardcore fighting game. I could just as easily argue it's becoming more about building with the decorative blocks, farming with potatoes and carrots, or redstone engineering with tripwires.
And wither != pvp, so I don't see what you're getting at.
The Wither is not inmune to TNT, and i'm sure there are many ways to create traps for him, also with superb gear ans potions you can one on one on him, the player has the advantage of making an arena to fight him. There are lots of thing you can throw at him in minecraft just think of a good plan.
Edit: Just create it between two iron golems and see how "overpowered" is the Wither, i almost feel sorry for him.
I like the sound of this. Screw fighing it face to face. Run away as soon as it starts gaining health. Send in the golems, and if that's not enough, nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
If your looking for more intense battles then dont play Minecraft...
But why settle for less when you can have more? Minecraft is becoming more and more of an adventure game, and it's combat should improve as a result. That goes for the player's combat options, the difficulty of mobs, the variety of mobs, and the mobs attacks. ESPECIALLY the bosses.
I'll go as far as saying that the first boss of the first Zelda game is more complex than the Blaze. They both attack in the same way (fireballs and contact), yet you have to hit the boss in a certain area rather than the Blaze who can be hit anywhere.
I might even say that he's more complex than the Enderdragon or the Wither, but the difficulty of both (granted, it isn't much) at least makes the battles slightly more fun than the Zelda boss who is a cakewalk. (Not to mention that the Wither can shoot at multiple targets, but that only makes the fight easier for you if he's distracted by animals.)
So, yeah. More complex bosses and boss AI isn't asking for too much; it's only asking for proper bosses. The bosses we have now resemble high-end monsters more than challenging battles.
I'm not asking for easier bosses, only more diversity in their attacks and AI to aid in that.
It can be improved... But not much. Minecraft has it limits you know
They weren't as big as the game created on the NES 25 years before the Wither was created, now, were they? Rebonack is a more diverse boss than the Wither, for god's sake, and he was on what is considered the worst game of the Zelda series.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Did something happen to you in your childhood to give you this unreasonable fear of rutabaga?
And those limits can be expanded. Regular updating for the win!
You guys deserve a big thumbs up for coming to the conclusion that we need more intelligent bosses that actually require skill and tactics as opposed to resources and button mash.
After reading the thread, and watching the video, I have surmised that the fight is easy (edit: in the sense that it's extremely simple). The video showed how. All you have to do is use brute strength.
As far as I can tell, the only problem with the boss is that the fight is stupidly boring. Brute strength is not fun. Give us at least a taste of strategy, Mojang? Please?
Furthermore, lame death animation. Like everything else in the game. Enderdragon was stupidly easy, but at least it died well.
I just fought him with speed II, strength II, enchanted full diamond armor, bow with power II, and a sword with sharpness III and fire aspect II.
It was really easy. It's entirely possible to get all of that and you should be ready before you spawn him anyways.
From what I read, it's not a challenge, it's what is called a "gear check". Have the gear to overpower him? You win. Don't have it? You lose. Can you do anything about that by altering your strategy? No? Then it's not a challenging boss, it's a gear check.
Diablo 3 was full of that, it was called elite mobs in inferno. Could you spam them down in 10 seconds? No? Well, they would get you first or enrage while you still were trying. That kind of behavior is not fun, nor is it challenging, it's flat out matching strength against strength and awarding victory to the stronger party.
From what I've read it's all about building a sufficient arena to hinder his attacks. You know building, what minecraft is all about.
Gear is only supplemental.
And every diablo game has been a giant gear check... thats kind of the point of the game. Kill **** to get better gear to kill more **** etc.. And the latest patch addressed some your issues with the game so meh.
Really though this is the most challenging mob in minecraft and should stay exactly how it is. If not be even more difficult.
It's suppose to be OP. Thats the point. I'd rather have an uber boss that takes a either a server full of people, or one person and a huge purpose built arena than anything else.
I mean come on, we need more mobs that can destroy or alter terrain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't play vanilla? You don't know **** about minecraft.
Everything in minecraft is a gear check. PvP is a giant, giant gear check with a very, very small amount of skill involved. Sure, maybe the better skilled player could beat the slightly better geared player, but generally, it doesn't work out that way.
Saying the whither shouldn't be a gear check would require a large redo of the minecraft combat system.
1. Don't kill enderdragon
2. Put enderchest in end
3. Build wither in end
4. Watch the show
5. Kill self and transport items/nether stars back in enderchest.
Seems like the simplest farming method, anyone tried it?
The chest might get destroyed at some point, but other than that I would like to see this for lulz.
Everything in minecraft is a gear check. PvP is a giant, giant gear check with a very, very small amount of skill involved. Sure, maybe the better skilled player could beat the slightly better geared player, but generally, it doesn't work out that way.
Actually, PvP is dependent more on your latency than anything else. I've had enchanted diamond swords, and been punched to death, while failing to actually hit the other player.
You obviously didn't read my post. Especially the part where I said that he hovers right over me. Blasting with me a constant stream of wither skulls. Making it hard to shoot, since to shoot a bow I have to stand still, and while standing still I can't dodge explosive projectiles. I'm not sure how you could jump to such a conclusion.
Um, change to hard mode temporarily? You have that option.
The Wither is pretty limited in terms of attacks; he pretty much just nukes your face until it dies or you're dead. That's it. The Wither skulls are pretty hard to dodge, so if you don't have really good equipment you'll inevitably die.
That's not a good enough boss. Where's the challenge if your victory is practically predetermined? There's no strategy; all you need is full diamond armor, a Strength II potion, a Health II splash potion, and plenty of food. Just run at him on a flat surface and spam the left mouse button like it was any other mob that you had to kill. Sounds fun? In my mind, no.
Compare a game that has good bosses; the Legend of Zelda. Pretty much every game in the series (besides the first and parts of the second) have exceptional bosses. Take, for an example, Rebonack; the boss of the third temple in the second game. Compared to the Wither, he seems rather mundane; he's a pixelated knight on a horse, whereas the Wither is a pixelated demon skeleton thing.
Rebonack has two stages; one where he's charging you down on a horse, and one where he's fighting you on foot.
The Wither has two stages; one where he takes damage from arrows and one where he doesn't. (As if they were viable; he closes distance quickly and is just as deadly from a range as up close, whereas you're weaker from a distance.)
Rebonack's first stage composes of him on a horse trying to charge him down. You have to jump over him and stab him on the head with your sword enough times to get to the next stage.
The Wither's first stage composes of him trying to blow you up. They deal a lot of damage, and they'll kill you very quickly if you wear any armor besides diamond. You have to hit him with your sword, shoot him with your bow, or throw enough healing splash potions at him to get to the next stage.
Rebonack's second stage composes of him trying to kill you on foot. He's clad in heavy armor, he has a shield, and he has a sword. He'll swing his sword at you regardless of how far away you are from him, but it doesn't matter because his sword shoots lasers (fortunately they can be blocked with a shield). Your sword can do the same, but only when you're at full health. Not like it matters, as he's immune to your lasers. You have to get up close to him to hit him, as you have no ranged options. Don't worry, though, as he's still hard as heck; his shield can block all of your attacks, but your shield cannot block his. He'll move his shield to match your attack, but if you're lucky, his timing will be off and you'll score a hit. You have to do this eight or so times or so before you finally kill him.
The Wither's second stage composes of him trying to blow you up. They deal a lot of damage, and they'll kill you very quickly if you wear any armor besides diamond. This time he's glowing, and he's immune to your arrows. You have to hit him with your sword or throw enough healing splash potions at him to finish him off.
The Wither boss fight:
Rebonack boss fight:
Zelda II was created in early 1987 for the NES.
The Wither was created in mid 2012 for the modern PC (the sort capable of handling games like Crysis).
The Wither, as a boss, was outclassed in terms of complexity by a boss made 25 years prior on vastly inferior hardware.
Come on, Mojang. You can do better than that, can't you? All you need to do is give it more attacks (seriously, the only mob with multiple attacks is the Blaze, and all it has in addition to it's normal attack is contact damage), make it have a unique attribute (besides a variant of poison), and in general make it different from every other mob in the game.
This I agree with completely. The title of my thread is probably unfortunately misleading; the difficulty the wither is right now is fine. I only want something that's challanging, and not something you have to brute-force through. I understand that minecraft right now is more about building stuff, but that does not mean that it can't have unique mobs. I think each mob should be unique, and have different attacks. Similar to Zelda, like you said.
I misinterpreted what you meant by hovering above you. I was just saying how it sounded with that interpretation.
Well, we can make it about skill-based combat as well as material collection. Best of both worlds. Besides, blocking is already present in the game, and I'm sure the rest could be added without much difficulty.
There was always some pvp, but I hardly think it's the end all be all of what Minecraft should be or is becoming. It's expanding in all sorts of ways. Just because they decided to toss you pvp fans a bone doesn't mean it's suddenly a hardcore fighting game. I could just as easily argue it's becoming more about building with the decorative blocks, farming with potatoes and carrots, or redstone engineering with tripwires.
And wither != pvp, so I don't see what you're getting at.
I like the sound of this. Screw fighing it face to face. Run away as soon as it starts gaining health. Send in the golems, and if that's not enough, nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
What challenge? You either win the fight or lose the fight based on your equipment. It's not hard (nor fun) when your victory is predetermined.
But why settle for less when you can have more? Minecraft is becoming more and more of an adventure game, and it's combat should improve as a result. That goes for the player's combat options, the difficulty of mobs, the variety of mobs, and the mobs attacks. ESPECIALLY the bosses.
I'll go as far as saying that the first boss of the first Zelda game is more complex than the Blaze. They both attack in the same way (fireballs and contact), yet you have to hit the boss in a certain area rather than the Blaze who can be hit anywhere.
I might even say that he's more complex than the Enderdragon or the Wither, but the difficulty of both (granted, it isn't much) at least makes the battles slightly more fun than the Zelda boss who is a cakewalk. (Not to mention that the Wither can shoot at multiple targets, but that only makes the fight easier for you if he's distracted by animals.)
So, yeah. More complex bosses and boss AI isn't asking for too much; it's only asking for proper bosses. The bosses we have now resemble high-end monsters more than challenging battles.
I'm not asking for easier bosses, only more diversity in their attacks and AI to aid in that.
They weren't as big as the game created on the NES 25 years before the Wither was created, now, were they? Rebonack is a more diverse boss than the Wither, for god's sake, and he was on what is considered the worst game of the Zelda series.
You guys deserve a big thumbs up for coming to the conclusion that we need more intelligent bosses that actually require skill and tactics as opposed to resources and button mash.
As far as I can tell, the only problem with the boss is that the fight is stupidly boring. Brute strength is not fun. Give us at least a taste of strategy, Mojang? Please?
Furthermore, lame death animation. Like everything else in the game. Enderdragon was stupidly easy, but at least it died well.
It was really easy. It's entirely possible to get all of that and you should be ready before you spawn him anyways.
From what I've read it's all about building a sufficient arena to hinder his attacks. You know building, what minecraft is all about.
Gear is only supplemental.
And every diablo game has been a giant gear check... thats kind of the point of the game. Kill **** to get better gear to kill more **** etc.. And the latest patch addressed some your issues with the game so meh.
Really though this is the most challenging mob in minecraft and should stay exactly how it is. If not be even more difficult.
It's suppose to be OP. Thats the point. I'd rather have an uber boss that takes a either a server full of people, or one person and a huge purpose built arena than anything else.
I mean come on, we need more mobs that can destroy or alter terrain.
Saying the whither shouldn't be a gear check would require a large redo of the minecraft combat system.
The chest might get destroyed at some point, but other than that I would like to see this for lulz.
Actually, PvP is dependent more on your latency than anything else. I've had enchanted diamond swords, and been punched to death, while failing to actually hit the other player.