His answer is the author of the book. The author of the book is a central banker in a way who originates all of the denominational bills to the community. Without his signature you have no bill. Thus any bill not marked with his name is simply a book with writing in it
So if I was the banker, could I write myself a check for 10 million moneys?
No. The notes are issued by a government machine, to businesses to give to it's employees.
Yes, but they're still just floating in value. There's no material backing for modern currencies, and this currency would be no different. Just because a government treasurer signs a bill compared to a single player signing a bill doesn't make it any less based on trust.
So if I was the banker, could I write myself a check for 10 million moneys?
If you were the central banker, yes. Ethically, no. Players would generally have to agree on someone to be the treasurer, and they'd likely be a trustworthy individual who they know won't manipulate the money supply to his own ends. If that banker is starting to obviously craft new bills, he'd be relieved of his office. Also, if the usual denominations are 1, 5, 10, 20, and 50, a 10 million currency note would probably be noticeable. Or if the banker suddenly has massive amounts of high-value banknotes and is spending it right and left, it's evident what has happened and he would promptly be replaced.
Although the system inherently depends on trust of a single individual, it's not as risky as you think. The monetary authority isn't some random player, it's someone the community trusts to work in its best interest.
Yes, but they're still just floating in value. There's no material backing for modern currencies, and this currency would be no different. Just because a government treasurer signs a bill compared to a single player signing a bill doesn't make it any less based on trust.
If you were the central banker, yes. Ethically, no. Players would generally have to agree on someone to be the treasurer, and they'd likely be a trustworthy individual who they know won't manipulate the money supply to his own ends. If that banker is starting to obviously craft new bills, he'd be relieved of his office. Also, if the usual denominations are 1, 5, 10, 20, and 50, a 10 million currency note would probably be noticeable. Or if the banker suddenly has massive amounts of high-value banknotes and is spending it right and left, it's evident what has happened and he would promptly be replaced.
Although the system inherently depends on trust of a single individual, it's not as risky as you think. The monetary authority isn't some random player, it's someone the community trusts to work in its best interest.
Your system sounds great honestly, but the banker issue is a serious problem. People turn greedy easy. And who would pay for the books he writes? And what would stop inflation?
Your system sounds great honestly, but the banker issue is a serious problem. People turn greedy easy. And who would pay for the books he writes? And what would stop inflation?
People in general do turn greedy easily, but there are always exceptions. Every server has several core players that everyone can trust. At least on servers I play on, there are always mature, active, intelligent players that have a genuine interest in the server's well-being. A server without any good guys isn't going to last long, anyway.
As to the books, people could donate or be required to supply the unsigned notes if they want money during the initial exchange period. Really, sugarcane, leather, and ink sacs aren't very difficult to come by, anyway.
Inflation would be countered depending on the type. If the inflation is due to players quitting the response is totally different from a response to, say, everyone rapidly spending their money. If you clarify a situation, I'll be happy to explain how the particular inflation would be countered.
Other than if the treasurer was scamming people off, he'd get prison for life.
Likewise, a corrupt treasurer here would be ostracized or even banned, depending on the server's particular brand of moderation.
On a side note, governments do routinely and openly "scam" by printing money to cover expenses, with no legal repercussion. (After all, they -are- the law)
On a side note, governments do routinely and openly "scam" by printing money to cover expenses, with no legal repercussion. (After all, they -are- the law)
Where can I read more about this?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Youtube channel.
Contains Pachebel's Canon made with noteblocks, a working Rubik's cube made with pistons, and the ultimate TNT cannon.
In the developed world, currencies aren't simply printed any more, but are still increased in number through what is called "fractional reserve banking." Most central banks have a stated goal of low, steady inflation. For example, the Federal Reserve aims at about 2% inflation per year.
In the developing world, governments often run partially or completely by literally printing bills and spending them. Some examples include Zimbabwe in the 1980-2010 period, Hungary and Germany in the interwar period, and the Confederate States of America during the civil war.
This practice has well-known negative results, so I doubt any sort of Minecraft central bank would hold a policy like this unless something like corruption was at play. However, considering the difficulty of enforcing a "tax" within a Minecraftian state, printing money could be a viable option. Also, a lending model like that of fractional reserve banking might also provide benefits to an in-game economy.
I'd also like to reiterate that if anyone wants to attempt this on a server they know of, I'd love to participate or observe. The bigger the server (and economy), the bigger the positive impact on prosperity.
problem 1: banker could be greedy.
answer: The banker should be a admin, that way they would have no need for money.
problem 2: banker could rip people off.
answer: Have a set value for everything. "ex: iron=15 cu diamond=400 cu ect."
problem 3: inflation
answer: Here is how it should go. If to much of a item has been sold, the price goes down. like if you sell 50 gold for 1000 cu, the next 50 gold would be worth only 800 cu. You could also make it so that a person can't sell to much of one item.
problem 4: flooding the inventory
answer: A bank. There is a catch however. If you have a bank account, it costs money to keep it. If you fail to pay within a time limit, you lose it and the money.
problem 5: books supply
answer: He should be a admin, he can just make books
problem 6: too much money around
answer: when you start the server, there is only 10000 cu. After about 20 new people, you add another 7500 cu. Just keep doing that and it would limit the money to can get
Problem 7: forged books
answer: The money is only valid if it was signed by the banker.
Problem 8: to many items
answer: It might take some time to get it started up, but the shops and banks start with nothing but money. That way people have to sell them stuff to get money. Then the shop keeper just sells the items that they got to the other people.
Problem 9: if banker is not admin what is their money?
answer: The Admins give them money. This money would only work for the banker, not for the players.
problem 10: one player makes all the money.
answer: Uh ctrl+v anyone? Also there are a good amount of commands that do that also.
problem 11: to many books and no bank
answer: lets say you have 2 10-cu books and a 5-cu book. You could make them a 25-cu book. Also you can make IOUs for if you are like 5 under.
Here are some ideas that i thought of.
What if you make it so that if you give books and book and quils, you get a discount.? That way people could see a point in getting books
You could also make passports. That way they would need to buy them so that they can go to special places that other can not. Factions can do this too.
Can't you clone books in some way, or am I thinking of maps?
You could also use some unobtainable item, any OP can technically spawn them in vanilla and there are a lot available that stack.
I've used a currency system on my custom map. piston heads renamed to "Testificate Tokens" are spread out in chests and rarely dropped by mobs. Although they require NBTedit to make, any vanilla client can use them. All villagers accept these tokens for different loot which makes them useful for all levels, you can trade in a few for food at the start or save up loads for some epic gear.
A similar system could also work on a server so long as you are willing to do the initial cheaty bit with NBTEdit. If they're easily recognizable and most players want them, the currency should flow well.
I think this is an amazing way to solve currency without it being invisible and behind the scene's (IE: Gaining currency by trading things to signs, and then having to us a command to see what amount you have), and not resorting to emeralds. I hope to see this within servers one day.
I really like this idea! It's a pretty complex idea, but if you get the right people managing the server, it could work out pretty well! I'd REALLY like to see this on a server and if there is one, please send it to me so I can join
I think the beauty of this system is that there never needs to be a 'banker' person and there's never a doubt about how much is owed. It's about as flawless of a system as you can get.
The 'value' of goods is always set by every individual. i.e., how valuable is item x to ME? This way you'll have differences in item value based on region. Some areas might have more gold laying around, some might have less, so the exchange rates fluctuate as necessary.
Examples:
Person A comes to Person B with 25 gold ingots. Person B says they are worth (to them) 5 diamonds. So, Person B makes a book that says "I owe you 5 diamonds" (and is automatically signed by Player B).
Person A walks away with the note. Person A comes back later to pick up the 5 diamonds and presents the 'book' that says he is owed 5 diamonds. Person B takes the book and gives Person A 5 diamonds. Then Person B destroys the book, erasing the debt record for both parties.
I'd just like to clarify that this idea is intended to be a monetary substitute created by factions of a server. A worldwide currency operated by administrators might as well be a plugin. In addition, it's not intended to "force" prices on items, as some servers have done. A diamond might not always be worth 10 iron ingots, or 10 cobble stacks, or whatever it may be. This is intended to allow item prices to fluctuate as well as serve the needs of a population using the currency. Depending on their unique circumstances, certain factions may wish to inflate their money supply, others deflate. Others may attempt to create a very stable object in which to store value. All-in-all I'd like this to be maintained by players much as fiat currency is maintained in the real world today.
That said, we could try this idea out on almost any server right now. We could start a nation-state that uses an in-game currency, and study the results. If it proves successful, other factions may adopt the same policies in order to keep up and compete. This could even work on servers with "iconomy" plugins. While other players watch as their plugin-money rapidly inflates into obscurity, we'll have a currency that promotes successful economics until they come to their senses and join us.
Another point central to the success of books as currency involves banks. Many players hold vast reserves of iron, coal, cobble, diamonds, etc. for trading purposes. If this wealth can be converted to notes, it frees up huge amounts of materials (I'd argue the majority of resources are just hoarded, actually) for use. Imagine a central bank taking in iron in exchange for banknotes. This iron is then used to build a world-wide railway, improving travel within the server, while still allowing trade (through the notes) just as before the exchange. Before the banknotes, this iron would've been a common currency for trading and hoarding in vaults instead of fulfilling a better purpose.
If we can find a server that has minimal admin interference and a relatively large and stable population, we can test this idea out relatively soon. If anyone knows of such a place, by all means let us/me know here. Perhaps we can reach a new level of prosperity within Minecraft survival.
This is an excellent idea, as provided the money is created by a trusted, intelligent player, it avoids the massive inflation that is common in almost any server with an economy plugin, and facilitates trade between players. However, a problem that's already been brought up is, that while the government can easily produce more money to circulate, it's difficult to recover it and use it in infrastructure and armies.
In a small server, I think an admin could easily produce and sell useful, but unavailable products such as passive mob spawn eggs and chain armor (aswell as rare items such as saddles), allowing the government to obtain money without printing more.
Another problem would be, if a government traded ores for currency until there was a certain amount of money circulating, this would solve the inflation problem- but players who spent most of their time exploring and building would end up a lot poorer than those hoarding resources. I think this could be at least partially solved if the government also bought exotic items from explorers (such as an island nation buying seeds, vines and jungle tree saplings) and hiring builders to make roads and outposts. The miners would still be richer, but at least exploration and building will be more rewarding activities.
An excellent idea. It should work excellently on servers but really not as a single player trading system. In SSP, it could easily be abused.
But on a server, I can really see this going somewhere. Certain things could be like gift cards I.e. a free iron sword + 2 iron picks. Thank you for the idea
Yes, but they're still just floating in value. There's no material backing for modern currencies, and this currency would be no different. Just because a government treasurer signs a bill compared to a single player signing a bill doesn't make it any less based on trust.
If you were the central banker, yes. Ethically, no. Players would generally have to agree on someone to be the treasurer, and they'd likely be a trustworthy individual who they know won't manipulate the money supply to his own ends. If that banker is starting to obviously craft new bills, he'd be relieved of his office. Also, if the usual denominations are 1, 5, 10, 20, and 50, a 10 million currency note would probably be noticeable. Or if the banker suddenly has massive amounts of high-value banknotes and is spending it right and left, it's evident what has happened and he would promptly be replaced.
Although the system inherently depends on trust of a single individual, it's not as risky as you think. The monetary authority isn't some random player, it's someone the community trusts to work in its best interest.
Your system sounds great honestly, but the banker issue is a serious problem. People turn greedy easy. And who would pay for the books he writes? And what would stop inflation?
People in general do turn greedy easily, but there are always exceptions. Every server has several core players that everyone can trust. At least on servers I play on, there are always mature, active, intelligent players that have a genuine interest in the server's well-being. A server without any good guys isn't going to last long, anyway.
As to the books, people could donate or be required to supply the unsigned notes if they want money during the initial exchange period. Really, sugarcane, leather, and ink sacs aren't very difficult to come by, anyway.
Inflation would be countered depending on the type. If the inflation is due to players quitting the response is totally different from a response to, say, everyone rapidly spending their money. If you clarify a situation, I'll be happy to explain how the particular inflation would be countered.
Likewise, a corrupt treasurer here would be ostracized or even banned, depending on the server's particular brand of moderation.
On a side note, governments do routinely and openly "scam" by printing money to cover expenses, with no legal repercussion. (After all, they -are- the law)
Where can I read more about this?
Contains Pachebel's Canon made with noteblocks, a working Rubik's cube made with pistons, and the ultimate TNT cannon.
In the developed world, currencies aren't simply printed any more, but are still increased in number through what is called "fractional reserve banking." Most central banks have a stated goal of low, steady inflation. For example, the Federal Reserve aims at about 2% inflation per year.
In the developing world, governments often run partially or completely by literally printing bills and spending them. Some examples include Zimbabwe in the 1980-2010 period, Hungary and Germany in the interwar period, and the Confederate States of America during the civil war.
This practice has well-known negative results, so I doubt any sort of Minecraft central bank would hold a policy like this unless something like corruption was at play. However, considering the difficulty of enforcing a "tax" within a Minecraftian state, printing money could be a viable option. Also, a lending model like that of fractional reserve banking might also provide benefits to an in-game economy.
I'd also like to reiterate that if anyone wants to attempt this on a server they know of, I'd love to participate or observe. The bigger the server (and economy), the bigger the positive impact on prosperity.
problem 1: banker could be greedy.
answer: The banker should be a admin, that way they would have no need for money.
problem 2: banker could rip people off.
answer: Have a set value for everything. "ex: iron=15 cu diamond=400 cu ect."
problem 3: inflation
answer: Here is how it should go. If to much of a item has been sold, the price goes down. like if you sell 50 gold for 1000 cu, the next 50 gold would be worth only 800 cu. You could also make it so that a person can't sell to much of one item.
problem 4: flooding the inventory
answer: A bank. There is a catch however. If you have a bank account, it costs money to keep it. If you fail to pay within a time limit, you lose it and the money.
problem 5: books supply
answer: He should be a admin, he can just make books
problem 6: too much money around
answer: when you start the server, there is only 10000 cu. After about 20 new people, you add another 7500 cu. Just keep doing that and it would limit the money to can get
Problem 7: forged books
answer: The money is only valid if it was signed by the banker.
Problem 8: to many items
answer: It might take some time to get it started up, but the shops and banks start with nothing but money. That way people have to sell them stuff to get money. Then the shop keeper just sells the items that they got to the other people.
Problem 9: if banker is not admin what is their money?
answer: The Admins give them money. This money would only work for the banker, not for the players.
problem 10: one player makes all the money.
answer: Uh ctrl+v anyone? Also there are a good amount of commands that do that also.
problem 11: to many books and no bank
answer: lets say you have 2 10-cu books and a 5-cu book. You could make them a 25-cu book. Also you can make IOUs for if you are like 5 under.
Here are some ideas that i thought of.
What if you make it so that if you give books and book and quils, you get a discount.? That way people could see a point in getting books
You could also make passports. That way they would need to buy them so that they can go to special places that other can not. Factions can do this too.
Hope this helps
Whats the map called?
The 'value' of goods is always set by every individual. i.e., how valuable is item x to ME? This way you'll have differences in item value based on region. Some areas might have more gold laying around, some might have less, so the exchange rates fluctuate as necessary.
Examples:
Person A comes to Person B with 25 gold ingots. Person B says they are worth (to them) 5 diamonds. So, Person B makes a book that says "I owe you 5 diamonds" (and is automatically signed by Player B).
Person A walks away with the note. Person A comes back later to pick up the 5 diamonds and presents the 'book' that says he is owed 5 diamonds. Person B takes the book and gives Person A 5 diamonds. Then Person B destroys the book, erasing the debt record for both parties.
This way there's never any confusion.
It's a great system!
This beats it though nice idea!
Keep on derpin'
Why don't make a server? would be one of the first to join if it were like this XD
That said, we could try this idea out on almost any server right now. We could start a nation-state that uses an in-game currency, and study the results. If it proves successful, other factions may adopt the same policies in order to keep up and compete. This could even work on servers with "iconomy" plugins. While other players watch as their plugin-money rapidly inflates into obscurity, we'll have a currency that promotes successful economics until they come to their senses and join us.
Another point central to the success of books as currency involves banks. Many players hold vast reserves of iron, coal, cobble, diamonds, etc. for trading purposes. If this wealth can be converted to notes, it frees up huge amounts of materials (I'd argue the majority of resources are just hoarded, actually) for use. Imagine a central bank taking in iron in exchange for banknotes. This iron is then used to build a world-wide railway, improving travel within the server, while still allowing trade (through the notes) just as before the exchange. Before the banknotes, this iron would've been a common currency for trading and hoarding in vaults instead of fulfilling a better purpose.
If we can find a server that has minimal admin interference and a relatively large and stable population, we can test this idea out relatively soon. If anyone knows of such a place, by all means let us/me know here. Perhaps we can reach a new level of prosperity within Minecraft survival.
In a small server, I think an admin could easily produce and sell useful, but unavailable products such as passive mob spawn eggs and chain armor (aswell as rare items such as saddles), allowing the government to obtain money without printing more.
Another problem would be, if a government traded ores for currency until there was a certain amount of money circulating, this would solve the inflation problem- but players who spent most of their time exploring and building would end up a lot poorer than those hoarding resources. I think this could be at least partially solved if the government also bought exotic items from explorers (such as an island nation buying seeds, vines and jungle tree saplings) and hiring builders to make roads and outposts. The miners would still be richer, but at least exploration and building will be more rewarding activities.
But on a server, I can really see this going somewhere. Certain things could be like gift cards I.e. a free iron sword + 2 iron picks. Thank you for the idea