It may be sandboxy now, but with Notch planning to add a goal...
Don't say "you don't have to complete the goal", because with that definition, any game that is not a sandbox but allows you to walk around and give some more freedom would be a sandbox. Sandbox games have no goal, not even optional.
So i guess in the old minecraft building a house was not a goal huh?
Getting tools was not a goal?
Getting coal to get torches to light your house that you mine with the tools you crafted isnt a goal right?
Minecraft always had goals but no one minded them because you pick what you dont like because it is a refrence to games that are RPG and you all hate on RPG games because "Minecraft is sandbox not an RPG!!!"
To all people arguing/trolling: Everyone is entitiled to an opinion.
People may think Minecraft is becoming more of a rpg because of the dragons potions etc.
Others believe its still a sandbox with some rpg aspects.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to troll, flame and insult them.
In my personal veiw, Minecraft has changed from its roots, it was a creative sandbox but is slowly evolving into a rpg/fantasy game. If this is a good or bad thing, is uncertain. To me its just more content to play with.
Okay, I think I've hit upon something. Duke Nukem 3D had a non-linear level design and an awful lot of stuff to play with. You could tip strippers, shoot pool, turn lights on and off, and basically just **** around. I never heard anybody call it a sandbox game. Why? Because it had a distinct progression and distinct goals and an end with a final boss. I could fire up Diablo and do nothing but talk to the NPCs and chase chickens around in the Rogue Camp, but that doesn't make it a sandbox game, because the goals and the final boss and ending are there. That is EXACTLY what Minecraft is becoming.
If you go to a physical sandbox, it doesn't have goals and a progression of events and a final boss and an ending. So there's your definition of a ****ing sandbox game. Minecraft won't fit that definition when 1.9 rolls around. If a game with distinct goals and an ending got called a sandbox game, then that term was being used incorrectly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
416 stone 296 stone slab (150 blocks) 149 stone stairs (228 blocks)
Okay, I think I've hit upon something. Duke Nukem 3D had a non-linear level design and an awful lot of stuff to play with. You could tip strippers, shoot pool, turn lights on and off, and basically just **** around. I never heard anybody call it a sandbox game. Why? Because it had a distinct progression and distinct goals and an end with a final boss. I could fire up Diablo and do nothing but talk to the NPCs and chase chickens around in the Rogue Camp, but that doesn't make it a sandbox game, because the goals and the final boss and ending are there. That is EXACTLY what Minecraft is becoming.
If you go to a physical sandbox, it doesn't have goals and a progression of events and a final boss and an ending. So there's your definition of a ****ing sandbox game. Minecraft won't fit that definition when 1.9 rolls around. If a game with distinct goals and an ending got called a sandbox game, then that term was being used incorrectly.
Saints Row 2 has a main storyline, and yet it's still a sandbox game. So, a storyline does not make a sandbox game stop being a sandbox game. Crackdown has a progression chain. Crackdown is a sandbox game. Progression does not make a sandbox game stop being a sandbox game. GTA: San Andreas has something like a leveling function, and is a sandbox game. Leveling systems do not make sandbox games stop being sandbox games.
All those things you could **** around with in Duke Nukem didn't do anything. At best, they distracted you from proceeding with the plot for five seconds while you hit something and said "Yup, I can make them show me their boobies." It's not the fact that there's progression and a plot that it's not a sandbox game, it's that the progression and the plot are the game in it's entirety. Just like you said, it's not a sandbox game exactly because there's nothing to do but continue the story, which absolutely does not apply to Minecraft.
There is no feature that can ever EVER be added that will make Minecraft stop being a sandbox game, because the only way to make it stop being a sandbox game is to take features away.
-Don't be a snobby jerk. You know perfectly well what they meant.
Well, no. I did not. Jens works just as hard on the game as Markus.
-[They] know this, but refer to it as his game because he was the person who created it...
Stop there.
When you have at least 1 other person working just as hard as you on something, even though you had the idea, do you want people to think solely of you when they think of it? I'd certainly appreciate if someone *at least* mentioned Jens once in a while.
-Just because he has a company doesn't mean its not his game anymore.
It most certainly means it's not just his game anymore!
If Markus ever planned on changing Minecraft's genre entirely, he'd have to run it through with the rest of Mojang. In fact, most feature additions he has to run through with the rest of Mojang. We can't have him secretly adding NYC-esque NPC villages behind the rest of Mojang's back, can we?
EDIT: Don't say yes. Because that'd be incorrect.
-Don't be a snobby jerk. You know perfectly well what they meant.
Well, no. I did not. Jens works just as hard on the game as Markus.
-[They] know this, but refer to it as his game because he was the person who created it...
Stop there.
When you have at least 1 other person working just as hard as you on something, even though you had the idea, do you want people to think solely of you when they think of it? I'd certainly appreciate if someone *at least* mentioned Jens once in a while.
-Just because he has a company doesn't mean its not his game anymore.
It most certainly means it's not just his game anymore!
If Markus ever planned on changing Minecraft's genre entirely, he'd have to run it through with the rest of Mojang. In fact, most feature additions he has to run through with the rest of Mojang. We can't have him secretly adding NYC-esque NPC villages behind the rest of Mojang's back, can we?
EDIT: Don't say yes. Because that'd be incorrect.
I believe Notch still has the creative authority for the game. He may be willing to discuss the design with jeb and allow jeb to add things, but I'm sure that if push comes to shove, Notch gets the veto power. Jeb has said that he doesn't know the ultimate plan for minecraft, that exists primarily in notch's head. It may not be *just* his game anymore, but it is still *his*. Just like Sid Meier has civilization as his game, despite being worked on by a company. Its right in the title "Sid Meier's Civilization".
I believe Notch still has the creative authority for the game. He may be willing to discuss the design with jeb and allow jeb to add things, but I'm sure that if push comes to shove, Notch gets the veto power. Jeb has said that he doesn't know the ultimate plan for minecraft, that exists primarily in notch's head. It may not be *just* his game anymore, but it is still *his*. Just like Sid Meier has civilization as his game, despite being worked on by a company. Its right in the title "Sid Meier's Civilization".
Oh. It seems I misunderstood you..
I believe you're right in this case.
However:
Anyone remember the small quarrel Markus and Jens had over the fog key?
Neither of them gave up, so they had to come to an agreement.
..So you might be wrong about the 'veto power' thing.
Notch doesn't have to do what we say. Now obviously we can inspire him, or do something HE WANTS but didn't think of. Pistons for example, he literally just took a mod an implemented it. That is a great thing, however the reason should always be "Notch thinks it is fun" because that is what the game is.
1- It was Jeb, not Notch, who implemented pistons.
Oh. It seems I misunderstood you..
I believe you're right in this case.
However:
Anyone remember the small quarrel Markus and Jens had over the fog key?
Neither of them gave up, so they had to come to an agreement.
..So you might be wrong about the 'veto power' thing.
Just because he has it doesn't mean he abuses it. If you end every argument with "I'm in charge, so we're doing things my way", you are abusing your power. If you are willing to discuss most ideas and resolve them, so you can be sure you are coming to the best answer, then you are doing it right. He can reserve the veto for when Jeb wants to add in alien spaceships, and they don't fit in the game(an extreme example, I doubt jeb would want that either).
He's not making the game for others. He's doing what a designer should; Making the game he thinks needs to be made. It's what a lot of designers hold as the golden mantra. If you make the game you would love the most, you'll find other people that will love it just as much. You run the risk of creating a niche market, but at least you're guaranteed to end up with a good game.
I had never really figured out why the conclusion of this was true; now I know. This is absolutely right, because Minecraft would change even more than it has if Notch sold out.
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Notch needs to hire some of these modders. I mean they are doing what SHOULD be done with the game in a FRACTION of the time it takes for him to do anything.
I mean for example that Kingdoms mod.. holy crap. Look at the effort and time put into that. Look at some of the other work.
If he really wanted to get off his butt and make a game for "others" instead of for his own amusement he'd spend some of "our" money on the title and get stuff done.
So i guess in the old minecraft building a house was not a goal huh?
Getting tools was not a goal?
Getting coal to get torches to light your house that you mine with the tools you crafted isnt a goal right?
Minecraft always had goals but no one minded them because you pick what you dont like because it is a refrence to games that are RPG and you all hate on RPG games because "Minecraft is sandbox not an RPG!!!"
People may think Minecraft is becoming more of a rpg because of the dragons potions etc.
Others believe its still a sandbox with some rpg aspects.
Just because you disagree doesn't mean you need to troll, flame and insult them.
In my personal veiw, Minecraft has changed from its roots, it was a creative sandbox but is slowly evolving into a rpg/fantasy game. If this is a good or bad thing, is uncertain. To me its just more content to play with.
No it isn't
Like wolves issue...
Don't like it, don't use it.
You know a roleplaying game has the following:
-Quests
-An Ending
-A Definite enemy
-A defined plan of winning: timed, or strategy
Minecraft doesn't have any of those.
Chariots Chariots
If you go to a physical sandbox, it doesn't have goals and a progression of events and a final boss and an ending. So there's your definition of a ****ing sandbox game. Minecraft won't fit that definition when 1.9 rolls around. If a game with distinct goals and an ending got called a sandbox game, then that term was being used incorrectly.
416 stone
296 stone slab (150 blocks)
149 stone stairs (228 blocks)
794 total stone
1082 blackstone
174 blackstone slab (87 blocks)
52 blackstone stairs (78 blocks)
1247 total blackstone
(not counting drawbridges and portcullises)
Saints Row 2 has a main storyline, and yet it's still a sandbox game. So, a storyline does not make a sandbox game stop being a sandbox game. Crackdown has a progression chain. Crackdown is a sandbox game. Progression does not make a sandbox game stop being a sandbox game. GTA: San Andreas has something like a leveling function, and is a sandbox game. Leveling systems do not make sandbox games stop being sandbox games.
All those things you could **** around with in Duke Nukem didn't do anything. At best, they distracted you from proceeding with the plot for five seconds while you hit something and said "Yup, I can make them show me their boobies." It's not the fact that there's progression and a plot that it's not a sandbox game, it's that the progression and the plot are the game in it's entirety. Just like you said, it's not a sandbox game exactly because there's nothing to do but continue the story, which absolutely does not apply to Minecraft.
There is no feature that can ever EVER be added that will make Minecraft stop being a sandbox game, because the only way to make it stop being a sandbox game is to take features away.
https://secure.worldcommunitygrid.org/index.jsp
-Don't be a snobby jerk. You know perfectly well what they meant.
Well, no. I did not. Jens works just as hard on the game as Markus.
-[They] know this, but refer to it as his game because he was the person who created it...
Stop there.
When you have at least 1 other person working just as hard as you on something, even though you had the idea, do you want people to think solely of you when they think of it? I'd certainly appreciate if someone *at least* mentioned Jens once in a while.
-Just because he has a company doesn't mean its not his game anymore.
It most certainly means it's not just his game anymore!
If Markus ever planned on changing Minecraft's genre entirely, he'd have to run it through with the rest of Mojang. In fact, most feature additions he has to run through with the rest of Mojang. We can't have him secretly adding NYC-esque NPC villages behind the rest of Mojang's back, can we?
EDIT: Don't say yes. Because that'd be incorrect.
I believe Notch still has the creative authority for the game. He may be willing to discuss the design with jeb and allow jeb to add things, but I'm sure that if push comes to shove, Notch gets the veto power. Jeb has said that he doesn't know the ultimate plan for minecraft, that exists primarily in notch's head. It may not be *just* his game anymore, but it is still *his*. Just like Sid Meier has civilization as his game, despite being worked on by a company. Its right in the title "Sid Meier's Civilization".
Oh. It seems I misunderstood you..
I believe you're right in this case.
However:
Anyone remember the small quarrel Markus and Jens had over the fog key?
Neither of them gave up, so they had to come to an agreement.
..So you might be wrong about the 'veto power' thing.
1- It was Jeb, not Notch, who implemented pistons.
2- Jeb's pistons work better than the mod.
Just because he has it doesn't mean he abuses it. If you end every argument with "I'm in charge, so we're doing things my way", you are abusing your power. If you are willing to discuss most ideas and resolve them, so you can be sure you are coming to the best answer, then you are doing it right. He can reserve the veto for when Jeb wants to add in alien spaceships, and they don't fit in the game(an extreme example, I doubt jeb would want that either).
Listen and download: Volume Up, Windows Down
I wouldn't like it, BUT it is his game.
"The oceans of minecraft are vast and nearly endless... and we just have a floating little box to traverse across them..." - doctorseaweed2
I had never really figured out why the conclusion of this was true; now I know. This is absolutely right, because Minecraft would change even more than it has if Notch sold out.
AGREED!!!
yes.
actually, i wouldn't mind it if he adds race cars
or maybe just regular square shaped cars on minecraft :biggrin.gif: