Notch needs to hire some of these modders. I mean they are doing what SHOULD be done with the game in a FRACTION of the time it takes for him to do anything.
I mean for example that Kingdoms mod.. holy crap. Look at the effort and time put into that. Look at some of the other work.
If he really wanted to get off his butt and make a game for "others" instead of for his own amusement he'd spend some of "our" money on the title and get stuff done.
Notch needs to hire some of these modders. I mean they are doing what SHOULD be done with the game in a FRACTION of the time it takes for him to do anything.
I mean for example that Kingdoms mod.. holy crap. Look at the effort and time put into that. Look at some of the other work.
"Minecraft is turning into a RPG. Where's my sandbox game??? D:"
"Lets hire the people that worked on an RPG mod of Minecraft! :biggrin.gif:"
Sometimes I think the minecraft community is bi-polar
He's not making the game for others. He's doing what a designer should; Making the game he thinks needs to be made. It's what a lot of designers hold as the golden mantra. If you make the game you would love the most, you'll find other people that will love it just as much. You run the risk of creating a niche market, but at least you're guaranteed to end up with a good game.
Notch struck gold. Not only is he ending up with a fantastic game, but it's also one of the best selling indie titles of all history. He'd have to be a complete idiot to change his development process at this point.
I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
Since when have you seen a sandbox genre suddenly turn into another genre.
This is a joke, right? Sarcasm? Since, you know, that's exactly what happened to Minecraft?
I'm not complaining, as I'm not one of the people that are adamantly against the new features being added. But Minecraft is certainly not a "sandbox" game anymore.
I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
So, since you seem to think you're an expert, tell us, what kind "creative/survival sandbox" things could he add? I'm serious, I want to know your opinion 'cause I can't think of many things he could add to such a wide genre.
Of course, we know that none of all the "RPGish things" they (because it's not just Notch, Mojang is a company, not a man) have added changes creative or survival sandbox in any way, but I'm curious about what kind of ideas would YOU add to the game keeping it as sandbox, but giving players new things. (And don't tell me new blocks, because that's just useless and can be easily modded, I'm talking about REAL features)
Uh, yes it is. It's the exact same game that it was a year ago, but with even more options and features tacked on. It's still the sandboxiest game I've ever played.
I suppose parts of the game still are. For example, Creative mode is sandbox. Survival mode on peaceful is basically sandbox. Anything else is not though.
Sandbox means there's no goal, and that there's nothing you HAVE to do. That's no longer true. For example, just the hunger system alone forces you to have to actively do certain things.
Again, not complaining, as I don't mind the additions. Just saying that it's not really the same genre it was before.
Notch needs to hire some of these modders. I mean they are doing what SHOULD be done with the game in a FRACTION of the time it takes for him to do anything.
I do agree with this much of your post and have been saying something similar for quite a while now.
I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
The thing about the RPG elements is they're absolutely not required to play the game. Don't like potion making or enchanting? Don't do them. Simple as that.
Uh, yes it is. It's the exact same game that it was a year ago, but with even more options and features tacked on. It's still the sandboxiest game I've ever played.
It may be sandboxy now, but with Notch planning to add a goal...
Don't say "you don't have to complete the goal", because with that definition, any game that is not a sandbox but allows you to walk around and give some more freedom would be a sandbox. Sandbox games have no goal, not even optional.
Grand Theft Auto
Borderlands
Prototype
Yakuza
Infamous
Most games made by Bethesda (Fallout or Elder Scroll series)
Batman: Arkhym City (as the most recent one)
The idea of a "sandbox" game came from the fact you have a huge enviroment with a non-linear story and tons of mini-games or sidequests to do. It gives the player the ability to do whatever he or she wants in the world limited to only the rules set by the world. Most "sandbox" games have an RPG element to make it more interesting, think of it as the shovels and pails in your sandbox. You don't have to use those shovels and pails but they're there if you do.
The advantage Minecraft has is that it is focused more on the creative aspect rather than action. What makes Minecraft stand out is that the "rules" of the world is only limited to one's imagination. What Notch and the rest of Mojang are doing is giving more tools to the player to experiment with. The more tools we have, the cooler sand castle we can make. But it doesn't mean you have to use them. The only feature that is forced on users is hunger. Overall it is not that big of a deal. However, it is very well possible that he will add something like classic survival to the people who don't want it.
Could some of you give me a list of "sandbox" games by your definition? Because, and this may just be me, all the other successful sandbox games I can think of have an end goal. The thing that keeps the "sandbox" spirit alive is that the game doesn't end upon reaching the goal.
Maybe this will make you feel better: instead of calling the Ender Dragon the "end goal" call it "another monster I have the option of killing" because honestly its the same exact thing.
"Minecraft is turning into a RPG. Where's my sandbox game??? D:"
"Lets hire the people that worked on an RPG mod of Minecraft! :biggrin.gif:"
Sometimes I think the minecraft community is bi-polar
They are. For any feature, there will be someone who loves it, and someone who hates it. For any possible addition, this will be true, be it RPG elements, modern weaponry, spaceships, or even turning it into a racing game. Just like the USA is bi-polar becasue half of the people want republicans and the other half wants democrats. For any large body of peole, you will have oppisite viewpoitns. Many games don't get that efffect, since they attract people who tend to have a certain viewpoint. Minecraft has enough mass appeal to create these fundamental divides in desires.
He's not making the game for others. He's doing what a designer should; Making the game he thinks needs to be made. It's what a lot of designers hold as the golden mantra. If you make the game you would love the most, you'll find other people that will love it just as much. You run the risk of creating a niche market, but at least you're guaranteed to end up with a good game.
Notch struck gold. Not only is he ending up with a fantastic game, but it's also one of the best selling indie titles of all history. He'd have to be a complete idiot to change his development process at this point.
Exactly. A developer should focus on making the game they want to make. That is how they will make a good game. If a developer says "I don't really care for first person shooters, but thats what is popular, so I'm going to make a first person shooter", you are going to end up with a bad first person shooter.
When you have a game that could be something else, and isn't, and other people think it should be that something else, they can develop that alternative that interests them. In this case, you have minecraft going in one direction, and mods showing alternative directions it can go. Modding has the advantage of making it easier to create variations of the theme. If the variation has more mass-market appeal than the original, then it will become more sucessful. But the original developer should still make the game they want, since that is what will make it a better game.
In this case, Notch's view of the game is what became wildly popular. Other variations, like the aether mod, are also popular.
People have a tendancy to look at mods, say "Hey, they are doing this better than minecraft, minecraft should be like this. The mods are the best thing about minecraft". A better approach would be to consider minecraft the archetype of the genre, and the mods are other games in that genre, which just happen to be using the minecraft codebase as a starting point to ease development.
The "A tale of kingdoms" mod that was showcased is a good example of this. It takes the basic genre of minecraft, and takes it in a very specfic direction. Is the result a good game? It looks like it could very well be. Is that what minecraft should do? No. Minecraft is following its own path. However, the modder wants the game "A tale of kingdoms" can offer, and so is making it.
I read this sentence in a lot of threads and I never was sure if this is totally right.
Of course Notch is the programmer and should be able to change the game how he wants but on the other hand Minecraft would not be what it is now without the community. There would not be Mojang without all the people who took the risk buying minecraft while in development. So in my opinion the community kind of owns Minecraft either.
I don't wanna say Notch has to do everything the community wants but he kind of has to make minecraft a polished, playable and kind of finished game that satisfys the majority of the community.
It is the developers vision that makes it into a good game. Trying to mkae a game for mass appeal instead of just trying to make a good game tends to end in disaster. Look at spore. The original concept was great. The idea, as presented by the developer, was amazing, and was being backd up with the technical genius to pull it off. Then marketing got involved, they decided they wanted to capture a wide audience and please everyone, diverged from his vision, and ended up being a huge dissapointment. If the path minecraft ends up taking is not what people really want, some other developer will want that same thing, and develop that game.
"Minecraft is turning into a RPG. Where's my sandbox game??? D:"
"Lets hire the people that worked on an RPG mod of Minecraft! :biggrin.gif:"
Sometimes I think the minecraft community is bi-polar
You're taking two halves of a single community, making them one entity, then saying that entity is bipolar?
for icing, some schmuck thought this was clever and gave you a +1.
On the topic: Developers can do anything they want prior to release. However, this could have some serious blowback from the community and potential millions lost. Look at 3D Realms...
Oh well. Apparently, it did become a flame war.
Yes, yes it does.
I mean for example that Kingdoms mod.. holy crap. Look at the effort and time put into that. Look at some of the other work.
If he really wanted to get off his butt and make a game for "others" instead of for his own amusement he'd spend some of "our" money on the title and get stuff done.
"Minecraft is turning into a RPG. Where's my sandbox game??? D:"
"Lets hire the people that worked on an RPG mod of Minecraft! :biggrin.gif:"
Sometimes I think the minecraft community is bi-polar
Just because it added some RPG aspects it doesnt means he is going to make this a completely different genre.
I do agree the game is fantastic, and Notch is a genius, but I think he should keep making a creative/survival sandbox, and instead of developing RPGish things he should add more mobs and blocks.
This is a joke, right? Sarcasm? Since, you know, that's exactly what happened to Minecraft?
I'm not complaining, as I'm not one of the people that are adamantly against the new features being added. But Minecraft is certainly not a "sandbox" game anymore.
So, since you seem to think you're an expert, tell us, what kind "creative/survival sandbox" things could he add? I'm serious, I want to know your opinion 'cause I can't think of many things he could add to such a wide genre.
Of course, we know that none of all the "RPGish things" they (because it's not just Notch, Mojang is a company, not a man) have added changes creative or survival sandbox in any way, but I'm curious about what kind of ideas would YOU add to the game keeping it as sandbox, but giving players new things. (And don't tell me new blocks, because that's just useless and can be easily modded, I'm talking about REAL features)
I suppose parts of the game still are. For example, Creative mode is sandbox. Survival mode on peaceful is basically sandbox. Anything else is not though.
Sandbox means there's no goal, and that there's nothing you HAVE to do. That's no longer true. For example, just the hunger system alone forces you to have to actively do certain things.
Again, not complaining, as I don't mind the additions. Just saying that it's not really the same genre it was before.
I do agree with this much of your post and have been saying something similar for quite a while now.
Do I think notch should listen to me? Absolutely not. I have horrible ideas.
The thing about the RPG elements is they're absolutely not required to play the game. Don't like potion making or enchanting? Don't do them. Simple as that.
And avatar... :tongue.gif:
It may be sandboxy now, but with Notch planning to add a goal...
Don't say "you don't have to complete the goal", because with that definition, any game that is not a sandbox but allows you to walk around and give some more freedom would be a sandbox. Sandbox games have no goal, not even optional.
Grand Theft Auto
Borderlands
Prototype
Yakuza
Infamous
Most games made by Bethesda (Fallout or Elder Scroll series)
Batman: Arkhym City (as the most recent one)
The idea of a "sandbox" game came from the fact you have a huge enviroment with a non-linear story and tons of mini-games or sidequests to do. It gives the player the ability to do whatever he or she wants in the world limited to only the rules set by the world. Most "sandbox" games have an RPG element to make it more interesting, think of it as the shovels and pails in your sandbox. You don't have to use those shovels and pails but they're there if you do.
The advantage Minecraft has is that it is focused more on the creative aspect rather than action. What makes Minecraft stand out is that the "rules" of the world is only limited to one's imagination. What Notch and the rest of Mojang are doing is giving more tools to the player to experiment with. The more tools we have, the cooler sand castle we can make. But it doesn't mean you have to use them. The only feature that is forced on users is hunger. Overall it is not that big of a deal. However, it is very well possible that he will add something like classic survival to the people who don't want it.
Maybe this will make you feel better: instead of calling the Ender Dragon the "end goal" call it "another monster I have the option of killing" because honestly its the same exact thing.
They are. For any feature, there will be someone who loves it, and someone who hates it. For any possible addition, this will be true, be it RPG elements, modern weaponry, spaceships, or even turning it into a racing game. Just like the USA is bi-polar becasue half of the people want republicans and the other half wants democrats. For any large body of peole, you will have oppisite viewpoitns. Many games don't get that efffect, since they attract people who tend to have a certain viewpoint. Minecraft has enough mass appeal to create these fundamental divides in desires.
Exactly. A developer should focus on making the game they want to make. That is how they will make a good game. If a developer says "I don't really care for first person shooters, but thats what is popular, so I'm going to make a first person shooter", you are going to end up with a bad first person shooter.
When you have a game that could be something else, and isn't, and other people think it should be that something else, they can develop that alternative that interests them. In this case, you have minecraft going in one direction, and mods showing alternative directions it can go. Modding has the advantage of making it easier to create variations of the theme. If the variation has more mass-market appeal than the original, then it will become more sucessful. But the original developer should still make the game they want, since that is what will make it a better game.
In this case, Notch's view of the game is what became wildly popular. Other variations, like the aether mod, are also popular.
People have a tendancy to look at mods, say "Hey, they are doing this better than minecraft, minecraft should be like this. The mods are the best thing about minecraft". A better approach would be to consider minecraft the archetype of the genre, and the mods are other games in that genre, which just happen to be using the minecraft codebase as a starting point to ease development.
The "A tale of kingdoms" mod that was showcased is a good example of this. It takes the basic genre of minecraft, and takes it in a very specfic direction. Is the result a good game? It looks like it could very well be. Is that what minecraft should do? No. Minecraft is following its own path. However, the modder wants the game "A tale of kingdoms" can offer, and so is making it.
It is the developers vision that makes it into a good game. Trying to mkae a game for mass appeal instead of just trying to make a good game tends to end in disaster. Look at spore. The original concept was great. The idea, as presented by the developer, was amazing, and was being backd up with the technical genius to pull it off. Then marketing got involved, they decided they wanted to capture a wide audience and please everyone, diverged from his vision, and ended up being a huge dissapointment. If the path minecraft ends up taking is not what people really want, some other developer will want that same thing, and develop that game.
You're taking two halves of a single community, making them one entity, then saying that entity is bipolar?
for icing, some schmuck thought this was clever and gave you a +1.
On the topic: Developers can do anything they want prior to release. However, this could have some serious blowback from the community and potential millions lost. Look at 3D Realms...