I keep coming back to this thread every time i get frustrated comb mining, FOR I ALSO HAVE A FRIEND, who will go back through my comb mine and she would see where i had mined rare ores (lapus in particular) and use those to pick out other spots (usually she would count a couple (maybe 6-13) blocks in a couple (random?) directions from the orig lapus site) and boom ive seen her MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW pick out diamonds, she'll have 3 stacks of diamond while the rest of us struggle to get to 30
IF algorithm mining is possible, which reading these posts I believe it is, those people would have to have some in depth knowledge of the programming. I've messed around a little with modding and ore generation(which is what led me to this post. It actually doesn't have what I need).
Essentially, there are a bunch of customizable values for every ore spawn that take different values for things like ore vein size, drops per chunk, etc. (These were the values I was looking for so I can get my custom ores to spawn the way I want them to without hours of trial and error).
The algorithm takes these values and randomly deposits ores throughout the chunk. Now, something that may surprise you is that there is no such thing as true random. Even in life, every action is based upon some kind of stimulus. In programming, it's impossible to just get a set of "random" numbers. You can't ask a machine to make something up on the spot. It doesn't have that capability.
So, in programming in general, the way rng values work are as follows(I'm sure some of you know some of this due to world seeds):
Every random number in programming is taken from a specific set of values that appear random, but are not. You can code things to make the values appear more random, but in the end, it is doing exactly what it was programmed to do. So, if you know the seed that the algorithm uses for the rng (which I don't), with a ton of work, you could use that algorithm to figure out where everything will spawn. That's the piece of info you guys are truly after. you can find the algorithm with a little searching through mcp, it'll just take some time to decode it. If someone knows even a little about programming and looks at that source code, they can probably figure it out with enough time. Unfortunately, that's too much work for me (it's out of scope of what I'm trying to do), so I probably won't be doing it for you guys. Sorry. I do hope this helps, though.
IF algorithm mining is possible, which reading these posts I believe it is, those people would have to have some in depth knowledge of the programming. I've messed around a little with modding and ore generation(which is what led me to this post. It actually doesn't have what I need).
Essentially, there are a bunch of customizable values for every ore spawn that take different values for things like ore vein size, drops per chunk, etc. (These were the values I was looking for so I can get my custom ores to spawn the way I want them to without hours of trial and error).
The algorithm takes these values and randomly deposits ores throughout the chunk. Now, something that may surprise you is that there is no such thing as true random. Even in life, every action is based upon some kind of stimulus. In programming, it's impossible to just get a set of "random" numbers. You can't ask a machine to make something up on the spot. It doesn't have that capability.
So, in programming in general, the way rng values work are as follows(I'm sure some of you know some of this due to world seeds):
Every random number in programming is taken from a specific set of values that appear random, but are not. You can code things to make the values appear more random, but in the end, it is doing exactly what it was programmed to do. So, if you know the seed that the algorithm uses for the rng (which I don't), with a ton of work, you could use that algorithm to figure out where everything will spawn. That's the piece of info you guys are truly after. you can find the algorithm with a little searching through mcp, it'll just take some time to decode it. If someone knows even a little about programming and looks at that source code, they can probably figure it out with enough time. Unfortunately, that's too much work for me (it's out of scope of what I'm trying to do), so I probably won't be doing it for you guys. Sorry. I do hope this helps, though.
The calculation of the seed itself is quite simple; the game uses the world seed to create two values which are multiplied with the chunk coordinates to get a "chunk seed" (note that this is as of 1.6.4, taken from ChunkProviderGenerate.populate()):
It is more complex than this though since this RNG is used to place all decorations, some of which occur before ores are placed (in 1.6.4 this includes randomized blocks in structures (not the structures themselves), lakes, and dungeons) so you'd need to account for them (each one calls the RNG a varying number of times; for example, the dungeon generator will call it a different number of times depending on whether a dungeon was placed (which depends on cave generation), same for the lake generator, so you really need to actually generate a chunk to get the exact RNG sequence, and even then it is possible for it to vary based on the direction you generate chunks in). Diamond ore is also generated after most other ores so you need to simulate the generation of all ores beforehand, and even in adjacent chunks since they can overlap (e.g. a vein of dirt from an adjacent chunk could generate over where a diamond vein would have been, this is also a case where if you traveled in the other direction the diamond ore would generate first, overwriting the dirt. This also explains MC-610, which is simply due to the overlap between decorations, so even though e.g. lakes and structures generate before trees and flowers they can cut away blocks below them).
In any case, this is a moot point since you can always use a tool like Minutor to view ores underground (or use x-ray):
Interesting. I wasn't aware that all of the generation used the same sequence. That does make things vastly more difficult, and the more developed the game gets, the harder and more inaccurate this method will be. So yes, it is possible, but worth the effort? Probably not. I mean, I guess if you're that intent on using an exploit to mine on a multiplayer server without using hacks or cheats, then go for it. But it'll probably take a long time to figure out what you're doing even with all the information you need (this is probably as close as you're going to get without delving into it yourself. You should have all the information you need to find what you're looking for. If you don't understand what we have said, go look up some Java tutorials on youtube and some basic modding tutorials, then things will slowly come together), and even then it won't always work out the way you think it will. But if you're playing singleplayer or on a multiplayer server with friends who don't care, it would be much easier to use a 3rd party app or in-game commands to get what you want.
You are a very smart person. Everyone listen to this guy.
No, not really. Diamonds spawn with the most frequency between layers 5 and 12. So you really want to be mining somewhere between 6 and 10, that way diamonds can spawn at high frequency on all sides, including underneath and above.
No, not really. Diamonds spawn with the most frequency between layers 5 and 12. So you really want to be mining somewhere between 6 and 10, that way diamonds can spawn at high frequency on all sides, including underneath and above.
Diamonds are only most common on those layers because bedrock starts on layer 4 and below, displacing stone; the actual placement of a vein is determined with a uniform distribution between layers 0 and 15* (layers 13-15 have less ore because veins aren't just a single block and extend several layers downwards). Layer 11 is usually cited as the best layer since it is just above lava, although 10 would be better since the ceiling of a 2 block high tunnel will be at 12 (layer 13 has about 90% as much diamond, 14 has 50% much and 15 has around 10% as much). Note that back when this thread was made layer 12 was equivalent to layer 11 today since F3 showed your eye level instead of feet level (this was changed sometime in early release to show both, then since 1.8 it has only showed your feet level. Beta 1.8 also changed the way ores generate so instead of extending above their initial y-coordinate they extend below, effectively lowering the range by several layers; this mainly impacted caving since the density was unchanged).
*The code suggests, and many people say, that the maximum is 16 but Random.nextInt(max - min), where min = 0 and max = 16, returns a number between 0 and 15 (16 values); this is then added to the minimum (0) to get the range (ironically, even Mojang doesn't realize this - 256 is correct since it gives a range of 0-255; if you want the max to represent the real maximum you want to add 1 to it when calling nextInt).
Also, I suspect the popular myth that diamonds are most common on layer 12 specifically comes from charts like this (if not this one in particular), which have a lot of noise due to a small sample size; conversely, this chart actually shows a slight dip on layer 12, which is also just an artifact; this chart is the largest known analysis of ore counts and it is virtually flat between layers 5-12.
In any case, there isn't much point in trying to find every single ore in a chunk - you usually want to prioritize diamonds per time and tool wear spent over diamond per area, which can be come very high with the best mining technique - which is nothing more than a 1x2 tunnel at layer 11, or multiple tunnels spaced at least 6 blocks apart (I know that since 1.13 you can swim through a 1x1 tunnel but I don't know if it is as fast as normal mining):
A maximum efficiency is reached at a spacing of around 6 blocks (that is, 6 solid blocks left in-between the tunnels). At this spacing, efficiency is about 0.017, corresponding to 1.7% of blocks removed being a diamond. At this spacing, the tunnels effectively become independent of each other and so, statistically speaking, the chance of encountering an ore are maximized because there is no chance the ore has been removed by an adjacent tunnel.
1.7% is quite high - around 15 times higher than if you simply mined every single block below layer 16 (as some people do; you should only make a quarry if you actually intend to use the resulting space, otherwise, even if you mainly want cobblestone you should branch-mine as you''ll get plenty of resources as well). If you average one block mined per second, which is easily doable (even stone pickaxes take less time to mine stone) you'll average about 60 diamond ore per hour - I don't even bother using Fortune on diamonds for this reason (I only need around 35 diamonds, after which I get more than I need from my normal playstyle of caving for fun, and otherwise in 1.9+ Mending eliminates the need to use resources to repair items).
I think I figured it out. I did a little bit of research and testing and I found that, if you find lapis dig 4 blocks to the right or left (if it isnt on one side go to the other) and dig down you will find diamonds. That's just what I've found.
PhoenixTerrainMod has releases for SSP, SMP & Bukkit.
who says hes the owner of the server? so far i havent seen anything that allows you to use it in SMP/bukkit without modding the server file.
I keep coming back to this thread every time i get frustrated comb mining, FOR I ALSO HAVE A FRIEND, who will go back through my comb mine and she would see where i had mined rare ores (lapus in particular) and use those to pick out other spots (usually she would count a couple (maybe 6-13) blocks in a couple (random?) directions from the orig lapus site) and boom ive seen her MULTIPLE TIMES IN A ROW pick out diamonds, she'll have 3 stacks of diamond while the rest of us struggle to get to 30
IF algorithm mining is possible, which reading these posts I believe it is, those people would have to have some in depth knowledge of the programming. I've messed around a little with modding and ore generation(which is what led me to this post. It actually doesn't have what I need).
Essentially, there are a bunch of customizable values for every ore spawn that take different values for things like ore vein size, drops per chunk, etc. (These were the values I was looking for so I can get my custom ores to spawn the way I want them to without hours of trial and error).
The algorithm takes these values and randomly deposits ores throughout the chunk. Now, something that may surprise you is that there is no such thing as true random. Even in life, every action is based upon some kind of stimulus. In programming, it's impossible to just get a set of "random" numbers. You can't ask a machine to make something up on the spot. It doesn't have that capability.
So, in programming in general, the way rng values work are as follows(I'm sure some of you know some of this due to world seeds):
Every random number in programming is taken from a specific set of values that appear random, but are not. You can code things to make the values appear more random, but in the end, it is doing exactly what it was programmed to do. So, if you know the seed that the algorithm uses for the rng (which I don't), with a ton of work, you could use that algorithm to figure out where everything will spawn. That's the piece of info you guys are truly after. you can find the algorithm with a little searching through mcp, it'll just take some time to decode it. If someone knows even a little about programming and looks at that source code, they can probably figure it out with enough time. Unfortunately, that's too much work for me (it's out of scope of what I'm trying to do), so I probably won't be doing it for you guys. Sorry. I do hope this helps, though.
The calculation of the seed itself is quite simple; the game uses the world seed to create two values which are multiplied with the chunk coordinates to get a "chunk seed" (note that this is as of 1.6.4, taken from ChunkProviderGenerate.populate()):
It is more complex than this though since this RNG is used to place all decorations, some of which occur before ores are placed (in 1.6.4 this includes randomized blocks in structures (not the structures themselves), lakes, and dungeons) so you'd need to account for them (each one calls the RNG a varying number of times; for example, the dungeon generator will call it a different number of times depending on whether a dungeon was placed (which depends on cave generation), same for the lake generator, so you really need to actually generate a chunk to get the exact RNG sequence, and even then it is possible for it to vary based on the direction you generate chunks in). Diamond ore is also generated after most other ores so you need to simulate the generation of all ores beforehand, and even in adjacent chunks since they can overlap (e.g. a vein of dirt from an adjacent chunk could generate over where a diamond vein would have been, this is also a case where if you traveled in the other direction the diamond ore would generate first, overwriting the dirt. This also explains MC-610, which is simply due to the overlap between decorations, so even though e.g. lakes and structures generate before trees and flowers they can cut away blocks below them).
In any case, this is a moot point since you can always use a tool like Minutor to view ores underground (or use x-ray):
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Interesting. I wasn't aware that all of the generation used the same sequence. That does make things vastly more difficult, and the more developed the game gets, the harder and more inaccurate this method will be. So yes, it is possible, but worth the effort? Probably not. I mean, I guess if you're that intent on using an exploit to mine on a multiplayer server without using hacks or cheats, then go for it. But it'll probably take a long time to figure out what you're doing even with all the information you need (this is probably as close as you're going to get without delving into it yourself. You should have all the information you need to find what you're looking for. If you don't understand what we have said, go look up some Java tutorials on youtube and some basic modding tutorials, then things will slowly come together), and even then it won't always work out the way you think it will. But if you're playing singleplayer or on a multiplayer server with friends who don't care, it would be much easier to use a 3rd party app or in-game commands to get what you want.
No, not really. Diamonds spawn with the most frequency between layers 5 and 12. So you really want to be mining somewhere between 6 and 10, that way diamonds can spawn at high frequency on all sides, including underneath and above.
Diamonds are only most common on those layers because bedrock starts on layer 4 and below, displacing stone; the actual placement of a vein is determined with a uniform distribution between layers 0 and 15* (layers 13-15 have less ore because veins aren't just a single block and extend several layers downwards). Layer 11 is usually cited as the best layer since it is just above lava, although 10 would be better since the ceiling of a 2 block high tunnel will be at 12 (layer 13 has about 90% as much diamond, 14 has 50% much and 15 has around 10% as much). Note that back when this thread was made layer 12 was equivalent to layer 11 today since F3 showed your eye level instead of feet level (this was changed sometime in early release to show both, then since 1.8 it has only showed your feet level. Beta 1.8 also changed the way ores generate so instead of extending above their initial y-coordinate they extend below, effectively lowering the range by several layers; this mainly impacted caving since the density was unchanged).
*The code suggests, and many people say, that the maximum is 16 but Random.nextInt(max - min), where min = 0 and max = 16, returns a number between 0 and 15 (16 values); this is then added to the minimum (0) to get the range (ironically, even Mojang doesn't realize this - 256 is correct since it gives a range of 0-255; if you want the max to represent the real maximum you want to add 1 to it when calling nextInt).
Also, I suspect the popular myth that diamonds are most common on layer 12 specifically comes from charts like this (if not this one in particular), which have a lot of noise due to a small sample size; conversely, this chart actually shows a slight dip on layer 12, which is also just an artifact; this chart is the largest known analysis of ore counts and it is virtually flat between layers 5-12.
In any case, there isn't much point in trying to find every single ore in a chunk - you usually want to prioritize diamonds per time and tool wear spent over diamond per area, which can be come very high with the best mining technique - which is nothing more than a 1x2 tunnel at layer 11, or multiple tunnels spaced at least 6 blocks apart (I know that since 1.13 you can swim through a 1x1 tunnel but I don't know if it is as fast as normal mining):
1.7% is quite high - around 15 times higher than if you simply mined every single block below layer 16 (as some people do; you should only make a quarry if you actually intend to use the resulting space, otherwise, even if you mainly want cobblestone you should branch-mine as you''ll get plenty of resources as well). If you average one block mined per second, which is easily doable (even stone pickaxes take less time to mine stone) you'll average about 60 diamond ore per hour - I don't even bother using Fortune on diamonds for this reason (I only need around 35 diamonds, after which I get more than I need from my normal playstyle of caving for fun, and otherwise in 1.9+ Mending eliminates the need to use resources to repair items).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
I think I figured it out. I did a little bit of research and testing and I found that, if you find lapis dig 4 blocks to the right or left (if it isnt on one side go to the other) and dig down you will find diamonds. That's just what I've found.