If Mojang decided to go through with the plan to have people pay I could see the modding community severely maimed. As no new modders would take it up. You'd see mildly interested parties saying/ thinking "I wanna mod minecraft but don't wanna throw any funds in to it in case I decide 'mehh not for me'" so they refrain, meaning less people learn how to make mods which is a good and bad thing, I usually have some decent ideas but cannot implement them due to lack of technical expertise.(I mean I did one course for HTML which is now a somewhat redundant language, I Hear Java is easy to learn but I struggled enough with HTML so I refrain from wasting time).
That being said the fee could separate the wheat from the chaff meaning less mods but better quality. As a lazy semi interested "modder" who just makes crappy ramshackle mods wont shell out the money.
But as for those saying that the fee would discourage malicious mods are kidding them selves. A true hacker and troll would totally spend if they thought the havoc they wrought was worth the fee. Then again if the license requires you to post relevant DoX that may render what I said a moot point. No hacker wants someone to know their RL DoX.
There's one big thing wrong with your point: the current mod system won't go away. What Notch wants to do would be a separate entity giving special access to the code to those who sign up.
It's not an API - his idea is something that would be in place of an API, because - as he said - an API that worked properly wouldn't be able to please everyone due to the variety of modding tools and coding people have used to make their mods.
"The most horrible thing". Really? Have you been completely oblivious to game development in general?
How does it punish modders? After all, the modding community as it stands will not go away.
An API is what the modding community needs. Even if the API is ultimately limited it would still serve as a simple way to modify the game for beginner and veteran modders. Also the API would be able to evolve with the modders, it would never necessarily have to be set in stone.
It feels that Notch took a cheap way with his current idea because he doesn't have to work to build as significant infrastructure for mods.
An API is what the modding community needs. Even if the API is ultimately limited it would still serve as a simple way to modify the game for beginner and veteran modders. Also the API would be able to evolve with the modders, it would never necessarily have to be set in stone.
It feels that Notch took a cheap way with his current idea because he doesn't have to work to build as significant infrastructure for mods.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. This isn't a plan that would negate any possibility of something like an API. After all, something as simple as an integrated modloader would make things a lot easier and work toward the intended goal.
* We retain the right to use your mod idea and implement it ourselves
in Minecraft. This is to prevent the situation where we have to avoid
adding a feature just because there’s a mod out there that does
something similar. It’s also great for dealing with bug fixes provided
by the community.
Ultimately, this is the only bit I have a real problem with. Because, and it could just be the way it's phrased, it sounds like a mod with months of effort put behind it can be grabbed by Mojang, made official, and modder credit thrown out the window. This poses a problem because, for example, if a really popular mod gets pulled into the game with no modder credit then said modder couldn't officially reference that addition in a resume.
Imagine if the Piston mod were just made a part of the game with no official mention, to public or modder, that the Piston mod was being included. It just showed up for an update. There would then be absolutely no way for the mod's creator to claim it was actually his idea and his work. As far as something like a resume or game portfolio would be concerned, the fact that there's a game feature that's very similar to a mod would just coincidental without any official credit.
Anyway, that's just the impression I got from the way it was worded and perhaps isn't what they would actually plan on doing. It would all be available in the license whenever it's released, I just hope that what I got from it isn't the case.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. This isn't a plan that would negate any possibility of something like an API. After all, something as simple as an integrated modloader would make things a lot easier and work toward the intended goal.
I doubt Mojang will put much thought into a Mod API now based on what Notch has said in his blog posts.
* We retain the right to use your mod idea and implement it ourselves
in Minecraft. This is to prevent the situation where we have to avoid
adding a feature just because there’s a mod out there that does
something similar. It’s also great for dealing with bug fixes provided
by the community.
Ultimately, this is the only bit I have a real problem with. Because, and it could just be the way it's phrased, it sounds like a mod with months of effort put behind it can be grabbed by Mojang, made official, and modder credit thrown out the window. This poses a problem because, for example, if a really popular mod gets pulled into the game with no modder credit then said modder couldn't officially reference that addition in a resume.
Imagine if the Piston mod were just made a part of the game with no official mention, to public or modder, that the Piston mod was being included. It just showed up for an update. There would then be absolutely no way for the mod's creator to claim it was actually his idea and his work. As far as something like a resume or game portfolio would be concerned, the fact that there's a game feature that's very similar to a mod would just coincidental without any official credit.
Anyway, that's just the impression I got from the way it was worded and perhaps isn't what they would actually plan on doing. It would all be available in the license whenever it's released, I just hope that what I got from it isn't the case.
I'm pretty sure the license agreement would include placing credit where it is due - after all, we've seen that done before without any of this license talk (McRegion, BetterLight).
1. You aren't paying Mojang to update their game. Oh, no, actually, you paid for what you got at the point in time at which you bought it. Notch could legally call the game finished tomorrow, and you'd have no right to complain. Anything you receive after you buy the game is a bonus. Be happy he didn't quit when Minecraft got popular because of the YouTube commentating craze.
2. If you aren't going to buy Mojang products again, and you obviously hate where Notch is going, why are you even complaining? Why are you wasting your life on this forum? Why aren't you out in the sun, or doing some work, or watching some TV? Wouldn't those be better than wasting your time complaining?
I will address what you said.
1) "You'd have no right to complain."
No. You have every right to complain, but nothing would happen still. The right to complain sits in just around the right to praise. Everyone is entitled to complain and praise all they want, but it wont necessarily change anything.
2) "why are you even complaining? Why are you wasting your life on this forum? Why aren't you out in the sun, or doing some work, or watching some TV? Wouldn't those be better than wasting your time complaining?"
Why are you praising Notch? Why are you wasting your life arguing with people you don't see eye to eye with? Why aren't you out doing what you said?
So he wants to discuss what is going on with Minecraft/Mojang with strangers on the internet, which is exactly what you are doing. Just because he doesn't like them as much as you might, doesn't mean he shouldn't post what he feels like would be a source of discussion.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
1. Hmm, maybe right is the wrong word. You wouldn't have anything to justify it with, is rather what I should have said.
The justification is correct. As I said in another thread, technically he could delete everything and give us "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" (Knockoff and named Minecraft of course) and we couldn't say much on it either.
2. I don't praise Notch, although I can answer the rest of your question. The reason I'm here is because I have a reason to actually be here. I like the game and the company, whereas the OP doesn't, leading me to ask why the hell he is on a forum that includes what he hates.
Couldn't tell if you were praising or not, so I just stuck that in there for the opposite of the OP. Right now, I like the game, though I have many issues with it, and I do not like the company. I have my reasons, but as to not derail this thread, I shall leave them out for now. Weather or not he likes Minecraft/Mojang, he is still entitled to share his opinion. Which is exactly what he is doing. I can't speak for him, and I wont put words in his mouth, but on this forum, and any forum this size, you will find a lot of people for both sides of the argument. To me, it is simply the urge to discuss problems we have with something, and to see what others think as well.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
Stop with the "Notch could stop this tomorrow and you couldn't do anything about it" crap.
Yes he could. He could also cut off his hands making him incapable of coding, he could make a sex tape and put it on the internet and he could legally run around giving everyone the finger. Just because he can do something doesn't mean it is a good idea and we have to smiling and happy just because he doesn't do it. There are plenty of things that are expected of people that aren't written down in laws and the spirit of the agreement when you buy Minecraft is that you will get more updates. When someone buys an alpha version of your game with future releases promised and you make a lot of money off it they expect you to finish it even if you can technically stop.
Finally stop saying that we should be thankful to Notch for making this game. I bought something from him so he should be thankful to me. When Homer buys something from Apu does he thank him for allowing him to buy a delicious squishee? Of course not, the person selling a product thanks the customer because they have so many other things that they can do with their money.
If you expected the game to end up completed, you didn't pay attention to the disclaimer when you bought the game.
Sure there's the hope, the desire for the game to be continued and eventually completed, but to expect it when you're plainly told by the developers that might not be the case is ludicrous.
... I'm sorry, but if you realized that the wall of text was no use, what use was that post?
Please, enlighten us, if we know so little.
It was to say that I think there's so little facts, so many assumptions and so much narrow-mindedness in this thread. And to sigh and give you all a <3 anyways =)
I thought that was kind of clear.
A wall of text would be no use since it would be argumentative in some way and thus meant for the ppl I think would not listen. Also, I mentioned it is probably not a good idea for me to enter this discussion and that is because I actually know the people working on this game. Does this explain it for you?
(To everyone else, I am sorry for the meta/off-topic, but s/he asked and I didn't want to ignore.)
This makes more sense to me. Your first comment looked like(to me anyways) the wall of text wasn't going to sum up the previous three lines, but was something to a different tune of what is going on. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
If you expected the game to end up completed, you didn't pay attention to the disclaimer when you bought the game.
Sure there's the hope, the desire for the game to be continued and eventually completed, but to expect it when you're plainly told by the developers that might not be the case is ludicrous.
When you go out to dinner with your girlfriend you can hope and desire that the person sitting at the nearby table doesn't come and start hitting on your girlfriend in the middle of the meal but you certainly can't expect him not to. He has the legal right after all. Oh, wait. Expectations have nothing to do with what someone can do but with what it is believed they will do or what they tell people they will do. You don't know what expectaions are.
Generally when someone says "This is what I plan to do until the game stops making money." You expect them to do it. Everyone who bought Minecraft should expect a fully featured version free and be upset if they don't get it.
Notch sold Minecraft on everyone's expectation of future updates from day 1. It is why people like me bought it in alpha in the first place when it lacked features. He promised future updates and then writes a small disclaimer incase something happens and he can't finish the game (and he added it a little late as well). Just because Notch can be an asshole and go against his claims doesn't mean it's a good idea, that people can't complain and they have to like it. It's also obviously not going to happen. He isn't going to suddenly stop and it's only brought up to try to make people feel like they should be thankful for getting what they legitimately payed for.
Why cant you just be happy that Notch EVEN MADE THIS GAME.If you like to whine and complain just gtfo.
Wow. After 6 pages? Ah hell, I'm bored and hellishly tired, lets see what I can do.
Alright, why can't I just be happy he made it? Its a product. I have the right to "whine and complain" about a product. If I didn't pay for it, I wouldn't care what he did with it. But, having to expend some of my money to get it, means it isn't a privilege, a gift, or a miracle. Why can't you understand that, at least me and DaBiggman, DO like this game? We like minecraft, but we like MORE what Minecraft COULD be! For ****'s sake, complaining isn't as evil as you think. Should we all blindly praise? Not look at what is going on? That would be the dumbest ****ing thing ever. Why do things change? Because people complain. Because people say there is a problem. And most of all, because people voice their opinion. Complaints are not all bad, when we complain about what is wrong. Some of us do voice it in the wrong way, with a little bit of irritation sprinkled on the top, but that doesn't defeat the thought. Look deeper into what people say when they "complain." You will see, under all of the irritation, that they want something to change, for the better. There are some complaints that are utter crap however, but bloody check what they say before you throw your face at the desk and submit whatever happens.
I'd probably have a decent analogy in there somewhere, but right now I just don't care.
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It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
Trolling Level for this Post: 100%
Troll Fail
That being said the fee could separate the wheat from the chaff meaning less mods but better quality. As a lazy semi interested "modder" who just makes crappy ramshackle mods wont shell out the money.
But as for those saying that the fee would discourage malicious mods are kidding them selves. A true hacker and troll would totally spend if they thought the havoc they wrought was worth the fee. Then again if the license requires you to post relevant DoX that may render what I said a moot point. No hacker wants someone to know their RL DoX.
An API is what the modding community needs. Even if the API is ultimately limited it would still serve as a simple way to modify the game for beginner and veteran modders. Also the API would be able to evolve with the modders, it would never necessarily have to be set in stone.
It feels that Notch took a cheap way with his current idea because he doesn't have to work to build as significant infrastructure for mods.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. This isn't a plan that would negate any possibility of something like an API. After all, something as simple as an integrated modloader would make things a lot easier and work toward the intended goal.
Ultimately, this is the only bit I have a real problem with. Because, and it could just be the way it's phrased, it sounds like a mod with months of effort put behind it can be grabbed by Mojang, made official, and modder credit thrown out the window. This poses a problem because, for example, if a really popular mod gets pulled into the game with no modder credit then said modder couldn't officially reference that addition in a resume.
Imagine if the Piston mod were just made a part of the game with no official mention, to public or modder, that the Piston mod was being included. It just showed up for an update. There would then be absolutely no way for the mod's creator to claim it was actually his idea and his work. As far as something like a resume or game portfolio would be concerned, the fact that there's a game feature that's very similar to a mod would just coincidental without any official credit.
Anyway, that's just the impression I got from the way it was worded and perhaps isn't what they would actually plan on doing. It would all be available in the license whenever it's released, I just hope that what I got from it isn't the case.
I doubt Mojang will put much thought into a Mod API now based on what Notch has said in his blog posts.
I'm pretty sure the license agreement would include placing credit where it is due - after all, we've seen that done before without any of this license talk (McRegion, BetterLight).
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Curse PremiumEDIT: MODDING API FREE, IM HAPPY, WOOT.
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Retired StaffI will address what you said.
1) "You'd have no right to complain."
No. You have every right to complain, but nothing would happen still. The right to complain sits in just around the right to praise. Everyone is entitled to complain and praise all they want, but it wont necessarily change anything.
2) "why are you even complaining? Why are you wasting your life on this forum? Why aren't you out in the sun, or doing some work, or watching some TV? Wouldn't those be better than wasting your time complaining?"
Why are you praising Notch? Why are you wasting your life arguing with people you don't see eye to eye with? Why aren't you out doing what you said?
So he wants to discuss what is going on with Minecraft/Mojang with strangers on the internet, which is exactly what you are doing. Just because he doesn't like them as much as you might, doesn't mean he shouldn't post what he feels like would be a source of discussion.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
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Retired StaffThe justification is correct. As I said in another thread, technically he could delete everything and give us "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" (Knockoff and named Minecraft of course) and we couldn't say much on it either.
Couldn't tell if you were praising or not, so I just stuck that in there for the opposite of the OP. Right now, I like the game, though I have many issues with it, and I do not like the company. I have my reasons, but as to not derail this thread, I shall leave them out for now. Weather or not he likes Minecraft/Mojang, he is still entitled to share his opinion. Which is exactly what he is doing. I can't speak for him, and I wont put words in his mouth, but on this forum, and any forum this size, you will find a lot of people for both sides of the argument. To me, it is simply the urge to discuss problems we have with something, and to see what others think as well.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
Yes he could. He could also cut off his hands making him incapable of coding, he could make a sex tape and put it on the internet and he could legally run around giving everyone the finger. Just because he can do something doesn't mean it is a good idea and we have to smiling and happy just because he doesn't do it. There are plenty of things that are expected of people that aren't written down in laws and the spirit of the agreement when you buy Minecraft is that you will get more updates. When someone buys an alpha version of your game with future releases promised and you make a lot of money off it they expect you to finish it even if you can technically stop.
Finally stop saying that we should be thankful to Notch for making this game. I bought something from him so he should be thankful to me. When Homer buys something from Apu does he thank him for allowing him to buy a delicious squishee? Of course not, the person selling a product thanks the customer because they have so many other things that they can do with their money.
Sure there's the hope, the desire for the game to be continued and eventually completed, but to expect it when you're plainly told by the developers that might not be the case is ludicrous.
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Retired StaffPlease, enlighten us, if we know so little.
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Retired StaffThis makes more sense to me. Your first comment looked like(to me anyways) the wall of text wasn't going to sum up the previous three lines, but was something to a different tune of what is going on. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
When you go out to dinner with your girlfriend you can hope and desire that the person sitting at the nearby table doesn't come and start hitting on your girlfriend in the middle of the meal but you certainly can't expect him not to. He has the legal right after all. Oh, wait. Expectations have nothing to do with what someone can do but with what it is believed they will do or what they tell people they will do. You don't know what expectaions are.
Generally when someone says "This is what I plan to do until the game stops making money." You expect them to do it. Everyone who bought Minecraft should expect a fully featured version free and be upset if they don't get it.
Notch sold Minecraft on everyone's expectation of future updates from day 1. It is why people like me bought it in alpha in the first place when it lacked features. He promised future updates and then writes a small disclaimer incase something happens and he can't finish the game (and he added it a little late as well). Just because Notch can be an asshole and go against his claims doesn't mean it's a good idea, that people can't complain and they have to like it. It's also obviously not going to happen. He isn't going to suddenly stop and it's only brought up to try to make people feel like they should be thankful for getting what they legitimately payed for.
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Retired StaffWow. After 6 pages? Ah hell, I'm bored and hellishly tired, lets see what I can do.
Alright, why can't I just be happy he made it? Its a product. I have the right to "whine and complain" about a product. If I didn't pay for it, I wouldn't care what he did with it. But, having to expend some of my money to get it, means it isn't a privilege, a gift, or a miracle. Why can't you understand that, at least me and DaBiggman, DO like this game? We like minecraft, but we like MORE what Minecraft COULD be! For ****'s sake, complaining isn't as evil as you think. Should we all blindly praise? Not look at what is going on? That would be the dumbest ****ing thing ever. Why do things change? Because people complain. Because people say there is a problem. And most of all, because people voice their opinion. Complaints are not all bad, when we complain about what is wrong. Some of us do voice it in the wrong way, with a little bit of irritation sprinkled on the top, but that doesn't defeat the thought. Look deeper into what people say when they "complain." You will see, under all of the irritation, that they want something to change, for the better. There are some complaints that are utter crap however, but bloody check what they say before you throw your face at the desk and submit whatever happens.
I'd probably have a decent analogy in there somewhere, but right now I just don't care.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --