One additional note: I did a brief assessment to try and figure out if powered rail interfered with boosted carts. I wanted to know what the impact of gradually updating my network to include powered rail would be.
The quick synopsis is that, while it's hard to tell, because boosted cart distance seems fairly variable, the powered rail did not appear to have any negative impact on boosted cart speed.
2 powered tracks, 1 stop block, 1 switch on a block. Just jump in your minecart hit the button and off you go.
Make a few more powered minecart tracks to act as boosters a few blocks away and your golden.(you dont need this many)
Have fun building roller coasters!
And setup your end station the same way as the first one. 2 powered tracks, 1 stop block, 1 switch on a block and voila you can have fun going back and forth easily with the push of a button.
Hey there, not sure where else to post this, but I found a multiplayer bug with these when placing tracks next to each other in a small space. Basically, what I was making was a 2-way mountain pass, like this:
= normal track = detector track = booster track = dirt/sand/regular nearby land that is untouched
[] = empty space
For purposes of this, left side track is going down, right side track is going up.
Now, what we found out (myself and the server owner) is that in this kind of instance, having anything beside or adjacent to a detector rail causes a server crash (stack overflow). We noted that this is only when putting tracks side by side for a 2-way track. We ended up playing around with it, causing about ten or so crashes and figuring out that leaving a space between the tracks themselves, and another space between the track and nearest wall/dirt hill/whatever is best, doing it that way did not cause any kind of crash. Here is an example of what I mean:
Thought I would share my personal research on the comparative strength of powered rails vs. boosters. I conducted three types of tests:
[*:2kpa3cha]Distance per rail
[*:2kpa3cha]Optimal spacing for speed
[*:2kpa3cha]Climbing
... Conclusions
[*:2kpa3cha]4 consecutive rail will accelerate a cart to maximum speed.
[*:2kpa3cha]Maximum flat travel speed can be maintained with 1 powered rail per 25 tiles covered. Both 1:25 and 2:50 performed well. 3:75 showed slight decrease and longer distributions were slower.
[*:2kpa3cha]Using inclined powered rail to ascend is more efficient that building speed while flat to ascend.
[*:2kpa3cha]Ascent requires roughly 1 rail per 2 altitude. 4:4 seems to be the longest stretch that will work, with alternating powered and unpowered at 1:1 providing the smoothest ascent. This is unfortunate, because it's a pain to power them all.
Hey apritchard, your research is good, but what about intervals that aren't in multiples of 25? How does 1 powered rail every 20 rails compare to 25? What about 30? Or any other number? I think a good goal is to find the maximal number to repeat powered rails to maintain roughly at maximum ground travel speed. You have established that 1/25 does this, but what about 1/30? 1/35? Your control loop should be easily adjustable to add length.
My previous tests (in post #4) are all on 100% straight track though, because turning corners slows the minecart down.
The objective of course, is to lower the amount of gold we'll have to use by spacing out the powered rails more without detriment.
I've used the traditional boosters, and they are better than the new powered rails because they 1) are faster 2) go uphill with ease.
However, the powered rails are GREAT for going straight on level ground. It's not synergistic as one questioned, but they do go hand in hand. You need both technologies.
Detector rails is a good way to save space in powering your powered rail. Most already figured this out, but just put a detector on both sides of the powered rail (for 2way traffic) and it'll power through.
I've used the traditional boosters, and they are better than the new powered rails because they 1) are faster 2) go uphill with ease.
Not quite; they both can only attain an 8m/s speed. But as the post said, the stored energy possible from a traditional booster is higher than the stored energy possible from a powered rail array, which is unfortunate because that basically precludes the possibility of mixing the systems (i.e., putting a powered rail on a traditional booster track would reset the power output on the cart gained from the booster).
As well, it looks like push-button starts aren't possible with powered rails they way they are with traditional boosters (via the Drop Cart boosters), requiring a manual-start.
Um, you'd really want this kind of setup anyway over having two tracks directly adjacant to each other, bugs nothwithstanding, because two carts passing that section of track at the same time would unboost each other as is.
As well, it looks like push-button starts aren't possible with powered rails they way they are with traditional boosters (via the Drop Cart boosters), requiring a manual-start.
You can. See post #4 in this thread for the simplest configuration for push-button start with powered rails. The simplicity of it is that it only requires like 2 tiles of space -- one for the button, and one for the block to mount the button on.
I've used the traditional boosters, and they are better than the new powered rails because they 1) are faster 2) go uphill with ease.
Not quite; they both can only attain an 8m/s speed. But as the post said, the stored energy possible from a traditional booster is higher than the stored energy possible from a powered rail array, which is unfortunate because that basically precludes the possibility of mixing the systems (i.e., putting a powered rail on a traditional booster track would reset the power output on the cart gained from the booster).
As well, it looks like push-button starts aren't possible with powered rails they way they are with traditional boosters (via the Drop Cart boosters), requiring a manual-start.
Ok, I was wrong about technically "faster" so I guess I meant to say that they have more stored energy thus holding speed longer which makes them "faster."
And yes the powered rail reset that speed/energy, but that's why you use a traditional booster to go uphill, and use the powered rails for other times. Traditional booster BEFORE the powered rail. It's not like you're gonna put powered rails on the track to reset your speed when you already have your cart boosted by a traditional booster.
Push button starts are possible. If you place your cart on unpowered rails, it'll just sit there. Push a button to power, and you're off. If you're talking about minecart dispensers, those are possible too.
Alright, I did more testing, observations and recorded more data to determine the ideal amount of interval to space out Powered Rails. This test focuses on a loaded minecart.
Shorthand in text:
P = Powered Rails
R = Normal Rails
D = Detector Rails
The launcher consists of 4P, the end of which has a stopblock and a button next to it. I'm using 4P for the launcher because apritchard's earlier research in this thread indicates that 4P is sufficient to boost a minecart from rest from rest to 8 meters per second. The loop portion in the layout consists of a loop that is 26 tracks long, 25 of which are R and the last one being a single P just before it loops back onto itself. The lonely P is powered by a redstone torch.
The test is to press the button to launch myself in the minecart from rest, and use a stopwatch to record the amount of time taken to do 20 laps of the loop (so I would count 1 lap whenever I pass by the redstone torch).
Tracks Distance Time Taken for Average Time taken for
in Loop over 20 laps first 20 laps Speed next 20 laps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
26 520 m 65 seconds 8.00 m/s 65 seconds
28 560 m 71 seconds 7.88 m/s 71 seconds
30 600 m 77 seconds 7.79 m/s 77 seconds
32 640 m 90 seconds 7.11 m/s 93 seconds
34 680 m 97 seconds 7.00 m/s ?
36 720 m 107 seconds 6.73 m/s ?
So in the table above, for a 26 track loop, it took 65 seconds to travel 20 laps, which equals a distance of 520 tiles traveled. Dividing Distance/Time, that's 8 meters per second. Then, I increased the length of the loop by 2 tracks and repeated the test for a loop of length 28 rails and so on. Each test is done twice to verify the results. I also recorded the amount of time taken for the 21st-40th laps.
I am unable to test an odd-numbered track loop because... well, any loop must have an even number of tiles.
Result analysis
The result is that in the 26-track loop, the minecart maintained 8m/s easily. That's 1 Powered Rails for every 25 standard Rails (because 1+25 = 26 tracks in the loop). As we increased the loop length by 2 per test, the speed dropped non-linearly, but dropped nonetheless. Here's the screenshot of the 30-track loop test:
The 21st-40th laps took the same amount of time for tracks loops of length 30 and less, but it slowed down at 32-tracks loop, taking an additional 3 seconds. This shows that at 1P every 31R, the minecart is decelerating slightly over time, and given enough time, will possibly come go into equilibrium at a average speed lower than 7.11m/s. I did not do the laps for 34 and 36 for the additional laps.
Conclusion
[*:3ojbbykg]For optimal use of gold ingots, space out Powered Rails by using 1 Powered Rail for every 25 normal Rails (that is a period of 26), maintaining maximum speed and minimum travel time
[*:3ojbbykg]For a negligible speed decrease of 2.6% from 8 to 7.79 m/s, using 1P every 29R (period of 30)
[*:3ojbbykg]Using 1P every 31R results in a rough 10% drop in speed (or 10% increase in travel time)
[*:3ojbbykg]Any further spacing than that, the minecart will feel sluggish.
Keep in mind also about the costs of powering the single Powered Rail every 26 tiles with probably a Redstone Torch (since the Torch is far cheaper to make than Detector Rails that are placed before and/or after the Powered Rail). Even cheaper than a redstone torch is to use a lever instead (and flip it on) but I generally find myself overflowing with redstone anyway.
This cost can be lowered if we consider putting '2Ps every 50Rs' instead of '1P every 25R' (that is, 2Ps followed by 50Rs, so you can power both Ps together by a single D or torch/lever) but I have not done any analysis on whether this setup is better or faster or whether it will maintain 8m/s.
Now, if we have ONE stack of gold ingots (that's 64 of them), we can make 64 Powered Rails out of it (since 6 ingots makes 6 Powered Rails). If we use 4 of these 64 for the launcher, and the remaining 60 for the remainder of the track, then we can power a track for 60*26 = 1560 tiles distance without any decrease in speed. Or 780 distance for a set of double tracks to and fro, where redstone torches can power both tracks simultaneously.
Um, you'd really want this kind of setup anyway over having two tracks directly adjacant to each other, bugs nothwithstanding, because two carts passing that section of track at the same time would unboost each other as is.
Right, good call, I didn't think of that. But the main point of my post above is to be careful with detactor tracks on SMP servers, they will cause a crash if you end up putting stuff right beside it and adjacent to it.
Thought I would share my personal research on the comparative strength of powered rails vs. boosters. I conducted three types of tests:
[*:2gjp2rej]Distance per rail
[*:2gjp2rej]Optimal spacing for speed
[*:2gjp2rej]Climbing
... Conclusions
[*:2gjp2rej]4 consecutive rail will accelerate a cart to maximum speed.
[*:2gjp2rej]Maximum flat travel speed can be maintained with 1 powered rail per 25 tiles covered. Both 1:25 and 2:50 performed well. 3:75 showed slight decrease and longer distributions were slower.
[*:2gjp2rej]Using inclined powered rail to ascend is more efficient that building speed while flat to ascend.
[*:2gjp2rej]Ascent requires roughly 1 rail per 2 altitude. 4:4 seems to be the longest stretch that will work, with alternating powered and unpowered at 1:1 providing the smoothest ascent. This is unfortunate, because it's a pain to power them all.
Hey apritchard, your research is good, but what about intervals that aren't in multiples of 25? How does 1 powered rail every 20 rails compare to 25? What about 30? Or any other number? I think a good goal is to find the maximal number to repeat powered rails to maintain roughly at maximum ground travel speed. You have established that 1/25 does this, but what about 1/30? 1/35? Your control loop should be easily adjustable to add length.
Good question! I decided to give 1/30 a shot. In order to really compare effectively, I broke down and adjusted my track so it was exactly 150 segments long, and therefore divisible by 25, 30, and 50 for easy comparison of speed. The maximum speed is around 18 or 19 seconds (18.75 at 8 m/s).
My initial comparison was between 25 and 30 unit intervals. I tested them with 1 initial rail impulse and then again with a 5 rail launcher.
Interval Initial First Second Third
25 1 31 19 20 (fourth lap - 19)
25 5 20 19 18
30 1 33 22 21 (fourth lap - 20)
30 5 20 20 20
In the above, 1:25 approached maximum speed even when starting with only 1 track for impulse. I believe if allowed enough revolutions, it would have eventually reached the 18/19 mark. Also, my measurements were fairly crude, so obviously there's a bit of give in the numbers. When launched with high initial speed, 1:25 maintained performance for multiple loops.
With 1:30, the cart continued to accelerate until hitting about 20 seconds per lap, which is 7.5 m/s. Even with a strong initial boost, 20 seconds per lap seemed to be the top speed.
I built a 160 segment version of the loop to test 20 and 40 intervals, but I decided the results wouldn't really contribute a lot. Obviously 1:20 will maintain max speed, and 1:40 will be somewhat less effective than 1:30.
I was contemplating mechanisms for finding an exact spacing between 25 and 30 that would reach max speed, but in the confines of a loop, this is hard to orchestrate. It might be nice to set up a long, straight track with boosters every n segments and then stop watch the distance between each booster hit until you find the minimum for that configuration.
Alright, I did more testing, observations and recorded more data to determine the ideal amount of interval to space out Powered Rails. This test focuses on a loaded minecart.
...
Tracks Distance Time Taken for Average Time taken for
in Loop over 20 laps first 20 laps Speed next 20 laps
----------------------------------------------------------------------
26 520 m 65 seconds 8.00 m/s 65 seconds
28 560 m 71 seconds 7.88 m/s 71 seconds
30 600 m 77 seconds 7.79 m/s 77 seconds
32 640 m 90 seconds 7.11 m/s 93 seconds
34 680 m 97 seconds 7.00 m/s ?
36 720 m 107 seconds 6.73 m/s ?
... Result analysis
The result is that in the 26-track loop, the minecart maintained 8m/s easily. That's 1 Powered Rails for every 25 standard Rails (because 1+25 = 26 tracks in the loop). As we increased the loop length by 2 per test, the speed dropped non-linearly, but dropped nonetheless.
...
The 21st-40th laps took the same amount of time for tracks loops of length 30 and less, but it slowed down at 32-tracks loop, taking an additional 3 seconds. This shows that at 1P every 31R, the minecart is decelerating slightly over time, and given enough time, will possibly come go into equilibrium at a average speed lower than 7.11m/s. I did not do the laps for 34 and 36 for the additional laps.
... Conclusion
[*:2lt88ppd]For optimal use of gold ingots, space out Powered Rails by using 1 Powered Rail for every 25 normal Rails (that is a period of 26), maintaining maximum speed and minimum travel time
[*:2lt88ppd]For a negligible speed decrease of 2.6% from 8 to 7.79 m/s, using 1P every 29R (period of 30)
[*:2lt88ppd]Using 1P every 31R results in a rough 10% drop in speed (or 10% increase in travel time)
[*:2lt88ppd]Any further spacing than that, the minecart will feel sluggish.
This is brilliant. Much more precise than my attempt at the same. Nice work!
Thank you everyone for all your tests. If you don't mind I will add my own interpretation.
Since a rail on an even terrain requires 1 powered track (PT) for 25 normal tracks (NT) to go full speed, and since crafting them requires 1 /PT and 0,375 /NT it means the metal used most be at least 10.3% of :GoldBar:. If you consider that the average diamond mine should yield about 20-40% and that is generally a much more useful metal than :GoldBar:, it means is more likely to be the limiting resource. The small quantity of redstone required should not be a problem either, especially if you use levers instead of redstone torches.
Therefor, using more PT/NT could be considered more cost effective. I think a good design would be 2 or 3 PT powered by a lever every 20-25 NT. An additional benefit is that the PT will give a better boost in case you interrupted your travel between 2 stations. Keep in mind that if you want your minecraft to travel unmounted you need to put a PT every 8 NT which requires 33.3% .
An issue I now have is that I have a stretch of parallel diagonal track that is some 200 tiles long. And Powered Rails do not work on diagonal tracks. I would have to convert tracks this way (this track is 20 blocks above the ground too) from:
Sucks because a double cart booster (2 overlapped minecarts boosting) travels just as fast with virtually no momentum drop off.
Pretty much makes almost all concepts of use still unpractical to using double boosters which are not only more effective but cheaper to produce. I guess other than not needing atleast a 6x5x3 space for the double cart booster,, I can only see practical uses in automated cart removal and retrieval services instead of using a booster since it travels less distance and requires far less space.
To compare the smallest double cart booster I can think of at the moment requires the following materials
22 - Rails (12 iron ingots & 2 sticks with track left over)
3 - Minecarts (15 iron ingots)
5-15 - Redstone dust to activate the booster
1 - Redstone Torch
1 - Redstone trigger (lever,button,pressure plate, etc..)
And a handful of any solid block to elevate certain parts of the booster.
When you factor in the rarity of gold compared to iron, and the loss of momentum using Powered Rails versus a double cart booster, it's just practical to go with the double cart booster for cart propulsion systems.
They still have some use though, but just not as good as a double cart booster.
The detector rails have more use in my opinion even though detecting a minecart and not an ability to detect one with a rider in it ruins it's use for a take off pad.
I have dozens of minecart stations, minis and fully automated ones, and found a great application for the detector rail. Some of my stations have what you could say is a "main" station which I use levers to redirect the track to other stations as needed. Occasionally, I arrive at another "sub" station and need to get back to the main, but since the lever is set to direct to the other station, on my arrival I'll just get put back on the path to the first station. I use the detector rails after the track switch points so that if I'm coming back to the main station it will temporarily switch the track back to the main station so any cart can arrive to my main station no matter how I have my track switches configured.
I find the main value in the powered rail so far is that it works in both directions. In my current rail installations, I have a couple of stations where the track splits you depending on which way you came from and routes you to the appropriate booster, which then feeds back into the main line. With powered rail, I could eliminate both boosters plus a bunch of extraneous routing rail. Of course, the PR is not nearly as effective as the booster, so I would also have to install additional PR along the route.
The other thing I like about PR is that it's good for shoring up sections where your previous booster doesn't take you quite far enough. Instead of having to extend the length of the booster or install an intermediary booster, you can just slap a PR or two in the trouble spot and you're back to work.
Really I think the only thing discouraging me from using more PR is how much it struggles with hills. 1 PR for every 2 tiles climbed is expensive! If your mine is down pretty low, any exit rail routes end up costing you a good 25+ gold bars a piece. Ugh.
Of course, I've opted to forgo rail into the mine all together in favor of the "jump down 60 tiles into a pool of water and then climb up a ladder to get out" as a far more efficient system that requires no metal at all...
Side view. The cart on this track is the booster cart, and sits at the top of the hill. Power the rails to release it into the booster loop, and when it returns it will brake at the top powered rail.
No more moving parts! No more bugged out loop! I can remove the "intake" carts with no classic booster at all (replaced a full two-cart boost system with 5 powered rails) and replace outgoing double booster with a single booster enhanced with powered rails. Station size is reduced by 60% or more.
Side view. The cart on this track is the booster cart, and sits at the top of the hill. Power the rails to release it into the booster loop, and when it returns it will brake at the top powered rail.
No more moving parts! No more bugged out loop! I can remove the "intake" carts with no classic booster at all (replaced a full two-cart boost system with 5 powered rails) and replace outgoing double booster with a single booster enhanced with powered rails. Station size is reduced by 60% or more.
The double cart booster is making Powered Rails worthless right out of the gate. The proof is in the pudding and if you seriously have enough problems with making boosters I'd recommend finding a video on youtube. I've never had any problems making any sized booster with any redstone wiring in any place I needed it to go since I made my first, so I'd get more familiar with minecart boosters then try to make some and see if they still "bug out".
The Powered Rails are okay at best, but in all seriousness the detector rails have more practical use and like I said before, all they can do is detect a minecart's presence which limits it's use from it's presumed function of acting as somewhat of a "launch pad". Your own design has to incorporate gravity to start you off to your designation, my still functional automated minecart station brings me a cart upon stepping on the platform, waits for me to get in the cart, sends me off hands free, then upon arrival stores my minecart when I actually get out of it.
The only action I need to perform is a right click to enter and exit the minecart. I could cut down on a handful of wiring switching the wooden pressure plates to detector rails and get the benefit of using a rail instead of a pressure plate which keeps the cart on the track for 1 block, twice each station but I didn't really notice any difference in speed or momentum with or without.
I do like the detector rails seeing as how now I can put one behind all my track switches so if it's set to go from A-to-B and I'm coming back to A-from-C, the detector will pick up the approaching cart (losing no momentum as a pressure plate would, but then again that's not where I used pressure plates) and send a short living signal to switch the tracks back.
But alas, those are the detector rails and not the power rails. I'll try switching out some of the "moving around stored carts" boosters with Powered Rails but I'm definitely keeping the double booster for my departing propulsion force seeing as how it achieves max speed and has more momentum than a continuous Powered Rail booster from just 1 activation.
Go look at that map on the wiki page dude, 3 cart booster has enough momentum to send a cart down a 240+ rail track, then up a 126 block high slope and back around again over 4 times, while using 4 Powered Rails as a start to achieve maximum speed, then 1 Powered Rail every other track for 200+ rails sends the cart barely halfway up the slope. The wiki recommends using 1 Powered Rail every 25 rails to maintain maximum speed, and that method hardly takes me a forth the way up the slope.
Plus they also fixed minecarts occasionally stopping when loading a world in 1.5 so the hassle of occasionally having to tap your minecart half a block back down the booster reset is no longer required.
Bottom line: There's too much momentum in double boosters and too little in Powered Rails to even compare them, not to mention the staggering difference in raw material requirements.
Edit- Actually it just hit me that I can use detector rails in low key boosters (just the resetting booster and a button to activate) with an implies gate and a stone pressure plate to automate the departing boost so the track will switch only when all 3 circuits are active.
For people who use low tech boosters for small minetracks or what have you, this would eliminate the chance of the booster just missing the short activation of a button without having to rig a delayed signal/keep hitting the button until you're boosted/or time when the cart is coming back to activate the departing boost.
I use some for underground railways for mining and various underground farms and now all I'd have to do is get in the damn thing and swoosh I'm off.
You would set it up somewhat like this
[]
[] = Any solid block to stop the minecart = Stone pressure plate = Detector Rail = Regular rails
Then place a detector rail on the last track before the reset on the booster so when a cart is there, you are in the cart, and the booster just gets ready to hit the track that switches to boost your cart, it switches the track and sends you off and deactivating the signal way before the booster is even done boosting you.
The new tracks are okay, but the Powered Rails are a definite disappointment souly on their rapid loss of momentum combined with materials needed to craft them.
Also thought of another great comparison.
A 3 cart booster can send a minecart with a player over 500+ blocks high with no loss in speed (disclaimer: speed is not the same as momentum) while a Powered Rail track requires 1 Rail every 2 blocks high just to keep to momentum going.
The quick synopsis is that, while it's hard to tell, because boosted cart distance seems fairly variable, the powered rail did not appear to have any negative impact on boosted cart speed.
2 powered tracks, 1 stop block, 1 switch on a block. Just jump in your minecart hit the button and off you go.
Make a few more powered minecart tracks to act as boosters a few blocks away and your golden.(you dont need this many)
Have fun building roller coasters!
And setup your end station the same way as the first one. 2 powered tracks, 1 stop block, 1 switch on a block and voila you can have fun going back and forth easily with the push of a button.
[] = empty space
For purposes of this, left side track is going down, right side track is going up.
Now, what we found out (myself and the server owner) is that in this kind of instance, having anything beside or adjacent to a detector rail causes a server crash (stack overflow). We noted that this is only when putting tracks side by side for a 2-way track. We ended up playing around with it, causing about ten or so crashes and figuring out that leaving a space between the tracks themselves, and another space between the track and nearest wall/dirt hill/whatever is best, doing it that way did not cause any kind of crash. Here is an example of what I mean:
I hope this helps!
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Curse PremiumHey apritchard, your research is good, but what about intervals that aren't in multiples of 25? How does 1 powered rail every 20 rails compare to 25? What about 30? Or any other number? I think a good goal is to find the maximal number to repeat powered rails to maintain roughly at maximum ground travel speed. You have established that 1/25 does this, but what about 1/30? 1/35? Your control loop should be easily adjustable to add length.
My previous tests (in post #4) are all on 100% straight track though, because turning corners slows the minecart down.
The objective of course, is to lower the amount of gold we'll have to use by spacing out the powered rails more without detriment.
I've used the traditional boosters, and they are better than the new powered rails because they 1) are faster 2) go uphill with ease.
However, the powered rails are GREAT for going straight on level ground. It's not synergistic as one questioned, but they do go hand in hand. You need both technologies.
Detector rails is a good way to save space in powering your powered rail. Most already figured this out, but just put a detector on both sides of the powered rail (for 2way traffic) and it'll power through.
Not quite; they both can only attain an 8m/s speed. But as the post said, the stored energy possible from a traditional booster is higher than the stored energy possible from a powered rail array, which is unfortunate because that basically precludes the possibility of mixing the systems (i.e., putting a powered rail on a traditional booster track would reset the power output on the cart gained from the booster).
As well, it looks like push-button starts aren't possible with powered rails they way they are with traditional boosters (via the Drop Cart boosters), requiring a manual-start.
Um, you'd really want this kind of setup anyway over having two tracks directly adjacant to each other, bugs nothwithstanding, because two carts passing that section of track at the same time would unboost each other as is.
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Curse PremiumYou can. See post #4 in this thread for the simplest configuration for push-button start with powered rails. The simplicity of it is that it only requires like 2 tiles of space -- one for the button, and one for the block to mount the button on.
Ok, I was wrong about technically "faster" so I guess I meant to say that they have more stored energy thus holding speed longer which makes them "faster."
And yes the powered rail reset that speed/energy, but that's why you use a traditional booster to go uphill, and use the powered rails for other times. Traditional booster BEFORE the powered rail. It's not like you're gonna put powered rails on the track to reset your speed when you already have your cart boosted by a traditional booster.
Push button starts are possible. If you place your cart on unpowered rails, it'll just sit there. Push a button to power, and you're off. If you're talking about minecart dispensers, those are possible too.
Hybrid.
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Curse PremiumHere's my test setup:
[] [] [] [] []
[] [] [] [] []
[]
[]
Legend:
Screenshot of the above
Shorthand in text:
P = Powered Rails
R = Normal Rails
D = Detector Rails
The launcher consists of 4P, the end of which has a stopblock and a button next to it. I'm using 4P for the launcher because apritchard's earlier research in this thread indicates that 4P is sufficient to boost a minecart from rest from rest to 8 meters per second. The loop portion in the layout consists of a loop that is 26 tracks long, 25 of which are R and the last one being a single P just before it loops back onto itself. The lonely P is powered by a redstone torch.
The test is to press the button to launch myself in the minecart from rest, and use a stopwatch to record the amount of time taken to do 20 laps of the loop (so I would count 1 lap whenever I pass by the redstone torch).
So in the table above, for a 26 track loop, it took 65 seconds to travel 20 laps, which equals a distance of 520 tiles traveled. Dividing Distance/Time, that's 8 meters per second. Then, I increased the length of the loop by 2 tracks and repeated the test for a loop of length 28 rails and so on. Each test is done twice to verify the results. I also recorded the amount of time taken for the 21st-40th laps.
I am unable to test an odd-numbered track loop because... well, any loop must have an even number of tiles.
Result analysis
The result is that in the 26-track loop, the minecart maintained 8m/s easily. That's 1 Powered Rails for every 25 standard Rails (because 1+25 = 26 tracks in the loop). As we increased the loop length by 2 per test, the speed dropped non-linearly, but dropped nonetheless. Here's the screenshot of the 30-track loop test:
The 21st-40th laps took the same amount of time for tracks loops of length 30 and less, but it slowed down at 32-tracks loop, taking an additional 3 seconds. This shows that at 1P every 31R, the minecart is decelerating slightly over time, and given enough time, will possibly come go into equilibrium at a average speed lower than 7.11m/s. I did not do the laps for 34 and 36 for the additional laps.
Conclusion
[*:3ojbbykg]For optimal use of gold ingots, space out Powered Rails by using 1 Powered Rail for every 25 normal Rails (that is a period of 26), maintaining maximum speed and minimum travel time
[*:3ojbbykg]For a negligible speed decrease of 2.6% from 8 to 7.79 m/s, using 1P every 29R (period of 30)
[*:3ojbbykg]Using 1P every 31R results in a rough 10% drop in speed (or 10% increase in travel time)
[*:3ojbbykg]Any further spacing than that, the minecart will feel sluggish.
Keep in mind also about the costs of powering the single Powered Rail every 26 tiles with probably a Redstone Torch (since the Torch is far cheaper to make than Detector Rails that are placed before and/or after the Powered Rail). Even cheaper than a redstone torch is to use a lever instead (and flip it on) but I generally find myself overflowing with redstone anyway.
This cost can be lowered if we consider putting '2Ps every 50Rs' instead of '1P every 25R' (that is, 2Ps followed by 50Rs, so you can power both Ps together by a single D or torch/lever) but I have not done any analysis on whether this setup is better or faster or whether it will maintain 8m/s.
Now, if we have ONE stack of gold ingots (that's 64 of them), we can make 64 Powered Rails out of it (since 6 ingots makes 6 Powered Rails). If we use 4 of these 64 for the launcher, and the remaining 60 for the remainder of the track, then we can power a track for 60*26 = 1560 tiles distance without any decrease in speed. Or 780 distance for a set of double tracks to and fro, where redstone torches can power both tracks simultaneously.
Right, good call, I didn't think of that. But the main point of my post above is to be careful with detactor tracks on SMP servers, they will cause a crash if you end up putting stuff right beside it and adjacent to it.
Good question! I decided to give 1/30 a shot. In order to really compare effectively, I broke down and adjusted my track so it was exactly 150 segments long, and therefore divisible by 25, 30, and 50 for easy comparison of speed. The maximum speed is around 18 or 19 seconds (18.75 at 8 m/s).
My initial comparison was between 25 and 30 unit intervals. I tested them with 1 initial rail impulse and then again with a 5 rail launcher.
In the above, 1:25 approached maximum speed even when starting with only 1 track for impulse. I believe if allowed enough revolutions, it would have eventually reached the 18/19 mark. Also, my measurements were fairly crude, so obviously there's a bit of give in the numbers. When launched with high initial speed, 1:25 maintained performance for multiple loops.
With 1:30, the cart continued to accelerate until hitting about 20 seconds per lap, which is 7.5 m/s. Even with a strong initial boost, 20 seconds per lap seemed to be the top speed.
I built a 160 segment version of the loop to test 20 and 40 intervals, but I decided the results wouldn't really contribute a lot. Obviously 1:20 will maintain max speed, and 1:40 will be somewhat less effective than 1:30.
I was contemplating mechanisms for finding an exact spacing between 25 and 30 that would reach max speed, but in the confines of a loop, this is hard to orchestrate. It might be nice to set up a long, straight track with boosters every n segments and then stop watch the distance between each booster hit until you find the minimum for that configuration.
This is brilliant. Much more precise than my attempt at the same. Nice work!
viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=297978&p=4139925#p4139925
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Since a rail on an even terrain requires 1 powered track (PT) for 25 normal tracks (NT) to go full speed, and since crafting them requires 1
Therefor, using more PT/NT could be considered more cost effective. I think a good design would be 2 or 3 PT powered by a lever every 20-25 NT. An additional benefit is that the PT will give a better boost in case you interrupted your travel between 2 stations. Keep in mind that if you want your minecraft to travel unmounted you need to put a PT every 8 NT which requires 33.3%
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which would disrupt the diagonal travel visually (the camera would keep turning left and right every 25 tiles).
Pretty much makes almost all concepts of use still unpractical to using double boosters which are not only more effective but cheaper to produce. I guess other than not needing atleast a 6x5x3 space for the double cart booster,, I can only see practical uses in automated cart removal and retrieval services instead of using a booster since it travels less distance and requires far less space.
To compare the smallest double cart booster I can think of at the moment requires the following materials
22 - Rails (12 iron ingots & 2 sticks with track left over)
3 - Minecarts (15 iron ingots)
5-15 - Redstone dust to activate the booster
1 - Redstone Torch
1 - Redstone trigger (lever,button,pressure plate, etc..)
And a handful of any solid block to elevate certain parts of the booster.
When you factor in the rarity of gold compared to iron, and the loss of momentum using Powered Rails versus a double cart booster, it's just practical to go with the double cart booster for cart propulsion systems.
They still have some use though, but just not as good as a double cart booster.
The detector rails have more use in my opinion even though detecting a minecart and not an ability to detect one with a rider in it ruins it's use for a take off pad.
I have dozens of minecart stations, minis and fully automated ones, and found a great application for the detector rail. Some of my stations have what you could say is a "main" station which I use levers to redirect the track to other stations as needed. Occasionally, I arrive at another "sub" station and need to get back to the main, but since the lever is set to direct to the other station, on my arrival I'll just get put back on the path to the first station. I use the detector rails after the track switch points so that if I'm coming back to the main station it will temporarily switch the track back to the main station so any cart can arrive to my main station no matter how I have my track switches configured.
The other thing I like about PR is that it's good for shoring up sections where your previous booster doesn't take you quite far enough. Instead of having to extend the length of the booster or install an intermediary booster, you can just slap a PR or two in the trouble spot and you're back to work.
Really I think the only thing discouraging me from using more PR is how much it struggles with hills. 1 PR for every 2 tiles climbed is expensive! If your mine is down pretty low, any exit rail routes end up costing you a good 25+ gold bars a piece. Ugh.
Of course, I've opted to forgo rail into the mine all together in favor of the "jump down 60 tiles into a pool of water and then climb up a ladder to get out" as a far more efficient system that requires no metal at all...
Side view. The cart on this track is the booster cart, and sits at the top of the hill. Power the rails to release it into the booster loop, and when it returns it will brake at the top powered rail.
No more moving parts! No more bugged out loop! I can remove the "intake" carts with no classic booster at all (replaced a full two-cart boost system with 5 powered rails) and replace outgoing double booster with a single booster enhanced with powered rails. Station size is reduced by 60% or more.
Do powered minecarts behave differently on powered rails or do they just slowly chug along?
Also, I just came up with this idea typing this post, but a powered minecart + detector minecart can act as a slow clock for redstone stuff, right?
http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Talk: ... s_Boosters
The double cart booster is making Powered Rails worthless right out of the gate. The proof is in the pudding and if you seriously have enough problems with making boosters I'd recommend finding a video on youtube. I've never had any problems making any sized booster with any redstone wiring in any place I needed it to go since I made my first, so I'd get more familiar with minecart boosters then try to make some and see if they still "bug out".
The Powered Rails are okay at best, but in all seriousness the detector rails have more practical use and like I said before, all they can do is detect a minecart's presence which limits it's use from it's presumed function of acting as somewhat of a "launch pad". Your own design has to incorporate gravity to start you off to your designation, my still functional automated minecart station brings me a cart upon stepping on the platform, waits for me to get in the cart, sends me off hands free, then upon arrival stores my minecart when I actually get out of it.
The only action I need to perform is a right click to enter and exit the minecart. I could cut down on a handful of wiring switching the wooden pressure plates to detector rails and get the benefit of using a rail instead of a pressure plate which keeps the cart on the track for 1 block, twice each station but I didn't really notice any difference in speed or momentum with or without.
I do like the detector rails seeing as how now I can put one behind all my track switches so if it's set to go from A-to-B and I'm coming back to A-from-C, the detector will pick up the approaching cart (losing no momentum as a pressure plate would, but then again that's not where I used pressure plates) and send a short living signal to switch the tracks back.
But alas, those are the detector rails and not the power rails. I'll try switching out some of the "moving around stored carts" boosters with Powered Rails but I'm definitely keeping the double booster for my departing propulsion force seeing as how it achieves max speed and has more momentum than a continuous Powered Rail booster from just 1 activation.
Go look at that map on the wiki page dude, 3 cart booster has enough momentum to send a cart down a 240+ rail track, then up a 126 block high slope and back around again over 4 times, while using 4 Powered Rails as a start to achieve maximum speed, then 1 Powered Rail every other track for 200+ rails sends the cart barely halfway up the slope. The wiki recommends using 1 Powered Rail every 25 rails to maintain maximum speed, and that method hardly takes me a forth the way up the slope.
Plus they also fixed minecarts occasionally stopping when loading a world in 1.5 so the hassle of occasionally having to tap your minecart half a block back down the booster reset is no longer required.
Bottom line: There's too much momentum in double boosters and too little in Powered Rails to even compare them, not to mention the staggering difference in raw material requirements.
Edit- Actually it just hit me that I can use detector rails in low key boosters (just the resetting booster and a button to activate) with an implies gate and a stone pressure plate to automate the departing boost so the track will switch only when all 3 circuits are active.
For people who use low tech boosters for small minetracks or what have you, this would eliminate the chance of the booster just missing the short activation of a button without having to rig a delayed signal/keep hitting the button until you're boosted/or time when the cart is coming back to activate the departing boost.
I use some for underground railways for mining and various underground farms and now all I'd have to do is get in the damn thing and swoosh I'm off.
You would set it up somewhat like this
[]
[] = Any solid block to stop the minecart
Then place a detector rail on the last track before the reset on the booster so when a cart is there, you are in the cart, and the booster just gets ready to hit the track that switches to boost your cart, it switches the track and sends you off and deactivating the signal way before the booster is even done boosting you.
The new tracks are okay, but the Powered Rails are a definite disappointment souly on their rapid loss of momentum combined with materials needed to craft them.
Also thought of another great comparison.
A 3 cart booster can send a minecart with a player over 500+ blocks high with no loss in speed (disclaimer: speed is not the same as momentum) while a Powered Rail track requires 1 Rail every 2 blocks high just to keep to momentum going.