When using powered rails, instead of putting the redstone torch next to the track, can it be put underneath the track? I'm building a bridge and it would look better if i could hide the redstone torches underneath the deck.
if you seriously have enough problems with making boosters I'd recommend finding a video on youtube
You have a really unpleasant attitude, and you don't seem to understand what I'm saying to boot.
A single classic booster is still used in my design with all the benefits it brings. 3, 5, 8 (etc) segments of contiguous track send my cart to the moon per normal. Instead of two carts constantly moving, though, there is one cart at rest. 1.5 certainly does NOT fix the bugged out minecart graphics (that is, the carts that must remain moving at all times in a classic double car booster). At first I tried replacing the double cart with a 3x3 track with powered rails on the straights as a holding loop:
and even in this configuration the cart would start bugging out very quickly - it's very responsive compared to a classic double, but just looks terrible.
In addition to the inherent reliability of the ramp system above, a simpler system without moving parts, it is more responsive. The booster comes immediately and ALWAYS. No waiting for that second cart to make its way around the track, back to the first cart, then back around the loop.
Quote from MDR »
my still functional automated minecart station brings me a cart upon stepping on the platform
So... pressure plate activated by a player. Again, pretty unreliable. I will continue to use dual pressure plates until another reliable, compact solution is found (although I haven't had a chance to experiment with the drop-or-jump sorting yet).
Frankly, it doesn't sound as though you have a very complicated system. Buttons for cart departure or cart calling, levers for destination choice, shared minecart stack - if you use double boosters for everything, it turns into a LOT of real estate.
Anyway, I'm certainly not forcing you to use a different system, but even you must realize that with new tools come hand-in-hand with new techniques. Try developing some of your own to share with the community, instead of tearing down people who are.
When using powered rails, instead of putting the redstone torch next to the track, can it be put underneath the track? I'm building a bridge and it would look better if i could hide the redstone torches underneath the deck.
Yes, this works. I've noticed a little inconsistency in powering the tracks, but it may be because I'm bolting it onto a preexisting system with other redstone circuits in the area.
I want to know if I'd be able to have the detector plate on an incline so it can detect if a cart is sitting there waiting to be released by the powered rail below (defaulted to unpowered).
I want to know if I'd be able to have the detector plate on an incline so it can detect if a cart is sitting there waiting to be released by the powered rail below (defaulted to unpowered).
I just realized that in this design, as soon as a cart was on the detector rail it would power the powered rail and release it. So that particular design wouldn't work but my question still stands: can you place detector rails on inclines?
I want to know if I'd be able to have the detector plate on an incline so it can detect if a cart is sitting there waiting to be released by the powered rail below (defaulted to unpowered).
I just realized that in this design, as soon as a cart was on the detector rail it would power the powered rail and release it. So that particular design wouldn't work but my question still stands: can you place detector rails on inclines?
Actually, if you were to have the detector rail below the powered rails on the incline, it won't power the rails above it. But, you would have to control the speed, or at least momentum, of the minecart pretty carefully so that it lands between the detector and power rails.
I'm not really sure what type of booster you are using, let me give you some pictures of the simple one I'm referring to.
The cart on the track with the loop around contains the double cart booster itself. When the power activates under the track facing the loop but not connected, it switches around and allows the double minecart to "boost" the adjacent cart. It then comes around the top, hits the 2 cobblestone blocks on the ceiling that prevent it from flying off into that direction, falls back on the track and goes back to looping inward.
The only "problem" I've had with this design was before 1.5, occasionally logging in would have the double boosted cart stalled out at the last point of the loop back and didn't fall in. It would just require a tap to reset, but since 1.5 all carts that were moving upon saving have their velocity reset upon loading the world to keep them in motion. With that design, the only period it's not moving is when both carts are up agasin't the wall, however because the double is angled up, [the game's] gravity will naturally pull it back down and initiate the process once again.
I believe you're having problems getting the carts to stack evenly which does happen unless you figure out a permanent method of stacking them correctly. Some people use the falling technique, but I find it "bugs out" which I'm now starting to realize what you meant by this, which was the carts coming out of sync, but I personally use the corner trick which works every time.
Since I meant no illwill in my first reply, even though some comments did appear insulting after reading it again, I've taken the initiative to give you some examples so we can both understand what the other is getting at.
The key to keeping them together is keeping those little buggers forced together with tight spaces that literally force the synchronization of both carts which you will see for yourself when replicating the design.
Here's a very simply instruction set I've whipped up real quick to get the standard double booster I'm referring to on your screen without any problems.
This is the basic form of propulsion system I'm referring to which shouldn't come out of sync and with 1.5 will continue to move in sync when reloading the world. You can lay down 1000 pieces of track propelled by that booster and it will not lose speed. It also appears to take a beating from blocks directly next to the track that you are riding on better than normal propellants or the Powered Rail in this instance. It won't slow down and continue to soar down the track until eventually enough momentum has been "beaten" out of it from colliding (in this case running alongside) with other blocks.
Let me know if you have MCEdit and I'll send you a schematic with the automated cart system for you to observe and another with a double cart booster with my modifications to automate the propulsion aspect so that you don't have to deal with hitting the button during a certain gap or rapidly hitting the button at all.
Has anyone tried combining powered minecarts with boosters? Perhaps they synergize well?
From the #4 post where I posted some test results, it would appear to me that traditional boosters do not respect the 8m/s travel speed limit (they increase the internal speed far beyond that), but powered rails do respect the 8m/s speed limit. Because of this, you need N powered rails on a slope to drive a cart over a slope that is N high/long (by ThatOneLundy above) to maintain the same resulting speed at the top, or to start it up from a standstill (you can deduct some from N if you have initial velocity on the cart).
So they don't synergize well.
We're also predicting that Notch might remove the bug that causes the traditional cart boosters to work in the future and patch 1.5 might be the time to start transitioning over.
I think what was ment was the old coal/forge powered carts that no one ever seems to use because of the booster glitch.
I appreciate your moderated tone. Let me show you an example of what I'm doing.
This is the boarding track. The cart waits for a player to enter. The parallel track is the booster, and the passenger cart gets 100+ blocks including large uphills (same as I got before).
Now this is the other side of that wall where the booster cart waits. It gets triggered by two plates (one wood one stone) on the tracks of the player cart. This allows carts to be dispensed automatically without overloading the platform (you can see the wooden plate in the first pic), but prevents cars from being boosted away from the station if only one or the other plate is pressed.
Also, note that this replaces a system that takes up more space, so it isn't very efficiently laid out - more of a proof-of-concept. Still, with identical power, smaller footprint, superior responsiveness, and a more reliable mechanism (basically a hard reset with every boost) I have concluded that a hybrid system is the most effective for long-distance travel, eclipsing the classic double cart. Almost every internal system in my station (with the single exception of pulling a cart out of the bottom of the stack - hybrid) uses powered rail only now.
The minecart stack problem is another one entirely, but I have a stacking system that works fine for queuing a new cart (that system now also uses a stationary (hybrid) boosting system, btw, although I need to refine that design a lot still).
I guess I just really enjoy finding novel approaches. I've been absolutely nuts with excitement since I heard about these new blocks. I'm disappointed that they perform so poorly on uphills, but otherwise they continue to please.
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that cart boosters are far more effective than powered rails.
What everyone needs to focus on is the very real possibility that cart boosters will be fixed so that it no longer works in the future, and start planning to transition over, instead of incorporating designs that use both.
When you guys go to other threads to discuss this, you should link back here. The more brainpower we have focused here the better.
Quote from Xinhuan »
I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that cart boosters are far more effective than powered rails.
What everyone needs to focus on is the very real possibility that cart boosters will be fixed so that it no longer works in the future, and start planning to transition over, instead of incorporating designs that use both.
I agree. I'm not going to tear down my boosters - yet - but I am going to experiment with, and encourage others to do so as well - powered rail, so that when the switchover does come we're prepared for it.
I've Been experimenting heavily with the 2 new rails implemented in 1.5, no number crunching or X + Y / the quotient of Niner, or anything of that nature. Just pure unbridled trial and error. One thing I've stumbled upon probably excites me more than it will most of you.. What intrigues me most is the innate braking properties of unpowered booster rails. I have a rather large one way single track train system with many stations and I've found a rather interesting way to eliminate the "stop, hit mine-cart, shuffle shuffle shuffle, place mine-cart, push downhill and right-click" annoyance. Basically an incline of 3 blocks, with powered booster rails followed by a couple level blocks of regular rails and then a 3 block decline with 3 booster rails powered by a button and 1 little bitty redstone pile. It allows you to simply push a button and speed on to the next stop/start station. What I've seen in my repetitive mind numbing trial and error method is that a cart at max speed can easily slip past 1 unpowered booster rail, and very rarely 2 (3 times over a 3 day trial period). After hours and hours of repeating the same route on a test track, I have yet to slide through a 3rd unpowered booster. On a side note, vending machines have been simplified beyond belief, thanks mostly to detector rails.
Generally the cart stops at the 2nd diamond, but the button is still well within reach from the bottom tier diamond.
= steadily powered booster rails
= boosters powered by a button
= regular rails
= random blocks
= random block with a button (set back 2 rows)
= random block with 1 length of redstone (set back 1 row)
[] []
[] []
[] []
[]
Hopefully some of you have good imaginations. Would've posted pics but the "board has reached it's limit."
I agree. I'm not going to tear down my boosters - yet - but I am going to experiment with, and encourage others to do so as well - powered rail, so that when the switchover does come we're prepared for it.
Yeah. And there's something slightly more satisfying about not having to use glitchy mechanics to travel. Though, to be honest I probably won't get around to replacing a number of my stations until they stop working... New development will mostly be powered rail, but it's hard to justify tearing out the stuff that's already running reliably!
Actually, it'll probably all get replaced once I finish sorting out the circuitry behind my destination selecting launch buttons. If only I'd had minecraft during my computer organization class, I might have been motivated to study harder!
What everyone needs to focus on is the very real possibility that cart boosters will be fixed so that it no longer works in the future, and start planning to transition over, instead of incorporating designs that use both.
And everyone else replying to the same idea.
If that ever happened I'd get trampled over in creating a mod to recreate the boosting effect which is in reality just the repelling function. The carts repel each other obviously so boosting is just a high velocity entity repelling off a stationary one, generating a higher velocity than the object which repelled it due to the entity repelling the other faster than it approaches.
Multiple cart boosters have the same principle but not only because there are 2 (or more) carts now repelling your stationary cart, but they are also constantly repelling each other which generates a hell of a lot of momentum.
Still though, I wouldn't be the first person to see the update removing the function, then begin work on reimplementing it and I guarantee other modders would get theirs out before I had a chance, but since it's just the repulsion system, any modder recreating it should come up with virtually the same methods. (Making the first person to release it owner of that mod as far as mcforums gives a ****)
Quote from loon »
I've been working on a minecart storage/dispenser system for use in an automated station. What I've come up with is rather simple but it works. It's scalable and uses one powered railtrack per storage unit.
Not quite; they both can only attain an 8m/s speed. But as the post said, the stored energy possible from a traditional booster is higher than the stored energy possible from a powered rail array, which is unfortunate because that basically precludes the possibility of mixing the systems (i.e., putting a powered rail on a traditional booster track would reset the power output on the cart gained from the booster).
Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, particularly experienced with building railcart boosters.
However, I recall reading that a simple "loop" based booster, which had the boosting cart proceeding along a closed loop of rail, would eventually crash the system in some way, as it built up too much speed from being constantly boosted, itself. A single powered rail section is supposed to "reset" the internal speed of a cart, and would seem to solve that problem, yes?
Also, it occurs to me that you could still use Powered rails, and Detector rails, as a means of using "traditional" boosters. In fact, I've just built a little test loop, and ... it works, every time. The timing could probably be improved by someo0ne more experienced with redstone circuits, and a more-elegant "return loop" is almost certainly possible than my kludge-job, but:
The cart to the left is the passenger vehicle. It's sitting on a launch pad (stop block, powered rail, and button connected via redstone wire). I was actually standing on the block with the button, to take this shot.
Down the track from there is a detector rail - which triggers the launch pad for the booster cart, which you can see on the right.
The booster, at least in this setup, turns to be adjacent to the passenger cart at almost the precisely correct time (off by maybe four pixels), and successfully boosts the passenger cart up the hill - before both of them turn onto my crude return/reset setup.
So ... thoughts? Comments? Hypervelocity rotten vegetables? :happy.gif:
I found an interesting fact about the new powered rails. Being on a slope overrides having a block on one end... so if you have a block at the bottom of a sloped powered track, instead of pushing a stopped cart up the slope, the rail will push the cart against the block. And if there's empty space above the block, it will push the cart into the block. And if there's already a cart in the block, it will pop out the other side. Alternately, if a cart is going fast enough when it hits the powered rail, it will simply pass straight through the block without stopping. Try building the following track (note that the track you can't see under the cart should be powered), and dropping carts on the flat powered rail in front of the block on the left:
Once you have a couple carts on the track, they'll merrily loop around, going through the block and giving each other a shove if they get stuck (the second cart was actually passing into the block as I took the screenshot).
I guess I'm going to have to go post a bug report now.
You have a really unpleasant attitude, and you don't seem to understand what I'm saying to boot.
A single classic booster is still used in my design with all the benefits it brings. 3, 5, 8 (etc) segments of contiguous track send my cart to the moon per normal. Instead of two carts constantly moving, though, there is one cart at rest. 1.5 certainly does NOT fix the bugged out minecart graphics (that is, the carts that must remain moving at all times in a classic double car booster). At first I tried replacing the double cart with a 3x3 track with powered rails on the straights as a holding loop:
and even in this configuration the cart would start bugging out very quickly - it's very responsive compared to a classic double, but just looks terrible.
In addition to the inherent reliability of the ramp system above, a simpler system without moving parts, it is more responsive. The booster comes immediately and ALWAYS. No waiting for that second cart to make its way around the track, back to the first cart, then back around the loop.
So... pressure plate activated by a player. Again, pretty unreliable. I will continue to use dual pressure plates until another reliable, compact solution is found (although I haven't had a chance to experiment with the drop-or-jump sorting yet).
Frankly, it doesn't sound as though you have a very complicated system. Buttons for cart departure or cart calling, levers for destination choice, shared minecart stack - if you use double boosters for everything, it turns into a LOT of real estate.
Anyway, I'm certainly not forcing you to use a different system, but even you must realize that with new tools come hand-in-hand with new techniques. Try developing some of your own to share with the community, instead of tearing down people who are.
Yes, this works. I've noticed a little inconsistency in powering the tracks, but it may be because I'm bolting it onto a preexisting system with other redstone circuits in the area.
Can you place detector rails on an incline?
For example (side view):
-rail
- detector rail
- powered rails
- dirt (hehe)
I want to know if I'd be able to have the detector plate on an incline so it can detect if a cart is sitting there waiting to be released by the powered rail below (defaulted to unpowered).
I just realized that in this design, as soon as a cart was on the detector rail it would power the powered rail and release it. So that particular design wouldn't work but my question still stands: can you place detector rails on inclines?
Actually, if you were to have the detector rail below the powered rails on the incline, it won't power the rails above it. But, you would have to control the speed, or at least momentum, of the minecart pretty carefully so that it lands between the detector and power rails.
I'm not really sure what type of booster you are using, let me give you some pictures of the simple one I'm referring to.
The cart on the track with the loop around contains the double cart booster itself. When the power activates under the track facing the loop but not connected, it switches around and allows the double minecart to "boost" the adjacent cart. It then comes around the top, hits the 2 cobblestone blocks on the ceiling that prevent it from flying off into that direction, falls back on the track and goes back to looping inward.
The only "problem" I've had with this design was before 1.5, occasionally logging in would have the double boosted cart stalled out at the last point of the loop back and didn't fall in. It would just require a tap to reset, but since 1.5 all carts that were moving upon saving have their velocity reset upon loading the world to keep them in motion. With that design, the only period it's not moving is when both carts are up agasin't the wall, however because the double is angled up, [the game's] gravity will naturally pull it back down and initiate the process once again.
I believe you're having problems getting the carts to stack evenly which does happen unless you figure out a permanent method of stacking them correctly. Some people use the falling technique, but I find it "bugs out" which I'm now starting to realize what you meant by this, which was the carts coming out of sync, but I personally use the corner trick which works every time.
Since I meant no illwill in my first reply, even though some comments did appear insulting after reading it again, I've taken the initiative to give you some examples so we can both understand what the other is getting at.
The key to keeping them together is keeping those little buggers forced together with tight spaces that literally force the synchronization of both carts which you will see for yourself when replicating the design.
Here's a very simply instruction set I've whipped up real quick to get the standard double booster I'm referring to on your screen without any problems.
This is the basic form of propulsion system I'm referring to which shouldn't come out of sync and with 1.5 will continue to move in sync when reloading the world. You can lay down 1000 pieces of track propelled by that booster and it will not lose speed. It also appears to take a beating from blocks directly next to the track that you are riding on better than normal propellants or the Powered Rail in this instance. It won't slow down and continue to soar down the track until eventually enough momentum has been "beaten" out of it from colliding (in this case running alongside) with other blocks.
Let me know if you have MCEdit and I'll send you a schematic with the automated cart system for you to observe and another with a double cart booster with my modifications to automate the propulsion aspect so that you don't have to deal with hitting the button during a certain gap or rapidly hitting the button at all.
I think what was ment was the old coal/forge powered carts that no one ever seems to use because of the booster glitch.
350125
This is the boarding track. The cart waits for a player to enter. The parallel track is the booster, and the passenger cart gets 100+ blocks including large uphills (same as I got before).
Now this is the other side of that wall where the booster cart waits. It gets triggered by two plates (one wood one stone) on the tracks of the player cart. This allows carts to be dispensed automatically without overloading the platform (you can see the wooden plate in the first pic), but prevents cars from being boosted away from the station if only one or the other plate is pressed.
Also, note that this replaces a system that takes up more space, so it isn't very efficiently laid out - more of a proof-of-concept. Still, with identical power, smaller footprint, superior responsiveness, and a more reliable mechanism (basically a hard reset with every boost) I have concluded that a hybrid system is the most effective for long-distance travel, eclipsing the classic double cart. Almost every internal system in my station (with the single exception of pulling a cart out of the bottom of the stack - hybrid) uses powered rail only now.
The minecart stack problem is another one entirely, but I have a stacking system that works fine for queuing a new cart (that system now also uses a stationary (hybrid) boosting system, btw, although I need to refine that design a lot still).
I guess I just really enjoy finding novel approaches. I've been absolutely nuts with excitement since I heard about these new blocks. I'm disappointed that they perform so poorly on uphills, but otherwise they continue to please.
Cheers
What everyone needs to focus on is the very real possibility that cart boosters will be fixed so that it no longer works in the future, and start planning to transition over, instead of incorporating designs that use both.
viewtopic.php?f=1020&t=300356
But no textures yet to show them. But it works.
I agree. I'm not going to tear down my boosters - yet - but I am going to experiment with, and encourage others to do so as well - powered rail, so that when the switchover does come we're prepared for it.
Generally the cart stops at the 2nd diamond, but the button is still well within reach from the bottom tier diamond.
= steadily powered booster rails
= boosters powered by a button
= regular rails
= random blocks
= random block with a button (set back 2 rows)
= random block with 1 length of redstone (set back 1 row)
[] []
[] []
[] []
[]
Hopefully some of you have good imaginations. Would've posted pics but the "board has reached it's limit."
Edit*
Yeah. And there's something slightly more satisfying about not having to use glitchy mechanics to travel. Though, to be honest I probably won't get around to replacing a number of my stations until they stop working... New development will mostly be powered rail, but it's hard to justify tearing out the stuff that's already running reliably!
Actually, it'll probably all get replaced once I finish sorting out the circuitry behind my destination selecting launch buttons. If only I'd had minecraft during my computer organization class, I might have been motivated to study harder!
And everyone else replying to the same idea.
If that ever happened I'd get trampled over in creating a mod to recreate the boosting effect which is in reality just the repelling function. The carts repel each other obviously so boosting is just a high velocity entity repelling off a stationary one, generating a higher velocity than the object which repelled it due to the entity repelling the other faster than it approaches.
Multiple cart boosters have the same principle but not only because there are 2 (or more) carts now repelling your stationary cart, but they are also constantly repelling each other which generates a hell of a lot of momentum.
Still though, I wouldn't be the first person to see the update removing the function, then begin work on reimplementing it and I guarantee other modders would get theirs out before I had a chance, but since it's just the repulsion system, any modder recreating it should come up with virtually the same methods. (Making the first person to release it owner of that mod as far as mcforums gives a ****)
That one takes a bit of space but I'm assuming retrieves a cart without a booster.
There's a booster one that stores cart vertically that could save space.
Looks like this.
Here's some pics Ftw.
He looks so helpless...
EDIT: He's still going too!
Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, particularly experienced with building railcart boosters.
However, I recall reading that a simple "loop" based booster, which had the boosting cart proceeding along a closed loop of rail, would eventually crash the system in some way, as it built up too much speed from being constantly boosted, itself. A single powered rail section is supposed to "reset" the internal speed of a cart, and would seem to solve that problem, yes?
Also, it occurs to me that you could still use Powered rails, and Detector rails, as a means of using "traditional" boosters. In fact, I've just built a little test loop, and ... it works, every time. The timing could probably be improved by someo0ne more experienced with redstone circuits, and a more-elegant "return loop" is almost certainly possible than my kludge-job, but:
The cart to the left is the passenger vehicle. It's sitting on a launch pad (stop block, powered rail, and button connected via redstone wire). I was actually standing on the block with the button, to take this shot.
Down the track from there is a detector rail - which triggers the launch pad for the booster cart, which you can see on the right.
The booster, at least in this setup, turns to be adjacent to the passenger cart at almost the precisely correct time (off by maybe four pixels), and successfully boosts the passenger cart up the hill - before both of them turn onto my crude return/reset setup.
So ... thoughts? Comments? Hypervelocity rotten vegetables? :happy.gif:
Once you have a couple carts on the track, they'll merrily loop around, going through the block and giving each other a shove if they get stuck (the second cart was actually passing into the block as I took the screenshot).
I guess I'm going to have to go post a bug report now.