Let me simply state this, My computer (the shitty one) can run L4D2 on medium settings with a constant 60 FPS and WoW at constant 30FPS at max. The Cpu is Pentium 4 3.00 ghz but when it comes to minecraft, the game lags and has unstable framerate.Either the game's code is not optimized enough or Notch is just an incompetent coder.
Let me simply state this, My computer (the shitty one) can run L4D2 on medium settings with a constant 60 FPS and WoW at constant 30FPS at max. The Cpu is Pentium 4 3.00 ghz but when it comes to minecraft, the game lags and has unstable framerate.Either the game's code is not optimized enough or Notch is just an incompetent coder.
And this people is the major thrill of PC gaming. Everyone has different computer specs and thus causes a wide variety of issues with each one. And usually when one has a framerate issue they are always asked a basic question.
OS:
Ram:
GFX
CPU:
In this case I don't have enough info on your computers GPU/GFX/Graphics Card so I would like to ask what that is. Since you haven't yet posted a graphics card I can then swiftly assume that next post you will tell me you have no graphics card and judging by your CPU I can only guess you have XP earlier as an OS. There is a low chance of you having Vista.
Now let me put it here that I am not stating this to help you with your computer problem. I am merely probing you for information.
I dont understand why he started it in Java anyways, its a horrible language for a game of this size
Prove that.
Look at the support forum, over 100 topics EVERY DAY over java issues, sure, its the customers java system or computer thats messed up, but if you had a standalone EXE youd have virtually zero issues with running Minecraft...I think that reason alone is enough to port it over.
You clearly haven't noticed the issues that many people have updating stuff like DirectX 9 to the latest version, preventing them from playing their copy of [insert random title here] (yeah, there are a few MILLIONS of people still using Windows XP), it's the same **** and there are dozens different examples, and you cannot escape it unless your game doesn't depend on third party libraries to run, so no, you are mistaken and it's not reason enough.
This thread is full of lol. People who don't know anything about programming blathering on about how C++ is magically faster and that C++ executables don't ever have any bugs or issues (lol -- the native system APIs are ancient and full of cruft and are easy to get wrong, even by the pros) and that adding a bunch of threads would make things faster (lol again -- threads don't make things faster, in fact, they make things slower because of the overhead of context-switching and thread synchronization; they are only useful if you have a lot of blocking operations, or operations that can run in parallel without much inter-thread communication required). My favorite, of course, is that Java has more memory leaks than C++ because it has automatic memory management. I suppose in some pathological case, you could actually get the JVM to leak memory by a huge amount while the same code in C++ would leak none. In reality-land, manual memory management guarantees memory leaks at some point and it is a matter of tediously finding them, or being extremely fastidious and adopt programming paradigms like RAII to limit the effects or likelihood of memory leaks (and these are constraining and sometimes easy to mess up, creating a bigger problem). There's no magic to C++, folks. There's no magic to C, assembly, Java or VB. Pick one, do it right, and if after profiling and optimizing, it's still not performant enough, then consider switching to another language. Or if you know you have a problem that will require, from the outset, raw power, then go with the languages that do that like C or FORTRAN. Minecraft is not such a piece of software.
QUOTED FOR ****ING TRUTH. The amount of ignorance in this thread was facepalmingly bad. It's almost as bad as people complaining that games take up 100% of their CPU. as if 100% CPU usage is bad. Right, we have to leave the CPU sitting there doing **** all, apparently, rather then actually being utilized... but that's sort of a sidebar. The Programming language and platform chosen are the two most entirely irrelevant choices, especially in the very cases being quoted. Logical fallacy's like "Minecraft is slow. Minecraft is written in java. <other game> runs well. It's written in C++. Therefore java is slower then C++" are so ridiculous, it's no wonder so few people who actually knew what they were talking about even bothered to post. And no, being able to open eclipse and dev/C++ doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.
Clearly, however, Siride has a clue. He knows what the **** he's talking about.
Pick one, do it right, and if after profiling and optimizing, it's still not performant enough, then consider switching to another language.
Indeed. What often happens however is that people considering switching to another language skipped the first step; they didn't do it right. A Bubble sort in C++ isn't going to go faster then even the slowest, interpreted language implementation of a quick sort or shell sort.
Also, as for people having trouble or whatever running minecraft and not other games; I'm not really sure what's going on there. my laptop can run minecraft just fine (and of course it wouldn't if the "OMGZ it should only be a windows executable!" people had their way) but can't run very many other games (even when booted to win7) because it's simply too slow for them. So unless they've managed to concoct a special set of configurations so that minecraft runs like **** and their other game runs great I'm not sure how a scenario that is the opposite can occur.
Well, java is okay for some games (like worms) but this game it just doesnt work.
Notch said he will convert it to something else when its realsed, but that would just be more hard work since there's more to convert. Each update the more stuff there is in the game, the more java will hog more cpu and ram which will result in fps problems, "lag". Though, converting it now would take probably months.
Do you think he should just buck up and do it now, or wait when its done and has a lot more to convert to some C language, or do you not care?
Recap(for tl;dr people)
Stays Java - Every update, there will be worse fps issues. (There are ways lag can be reduced with java, but notch may or may not do it)
Changes (say like C++) - Will run better (If done right)
Edit : I personally good fps (60, but i used to be getting around 150) but many people are getting lag issues.
Keep in mind that this game is cross-platform between PC, Mac and Linux. If you change the coding structure it could make things worse for the other platforms.
Let me simply state this, My computer (the shitty one) can run L4D2 on medium settings with a constant 60 FPS and WoW at constant 30FPS at max. The Cpu is Pentium 4 3.00 ghz but when it comes to minecraft, the game lags and has unstable framerate.Either the game's code is not optimized enough or Notch is just an incompetent coder.
And this people is the major thrill of PC gaming. Everyone has different computer specs and thus causes a wide variety of issues with each one. And usually when one has a framerate issue they are always asked a basic question.
OS:
Ram:
GFX
CPU:
In this case I don't have enough info on your computers GPU/GFX/Graphics Card so I would like to ask what that is. Since you haven't yet posted a graphics card I can then swiftly assume that next post you will tell me you have no graphics card and judging by your CPU I can only guess you have XP earlier as an OS. There is a low chance of you having Vista.
Now let me put it here that I am not stating this to help you with your computer problem. I am merely probing you for information.
My OS is XP because vista was **** and my older one cannot handle 7
My graphic card is unknown, when looked in dxdiag it shows some ATI name thingy but not exact name. It says Radeon series and thats it. The memory is 256 mb.
Each update the more stuff there is in the game, the more java will hog more cpu and ram which will result in fps problems, "lag". Though, converting it now would take probably months.
Java isn't noticeably slower than C++ for CPU tasks. Your not going to get any magic jump in FPS. The only benefit to converting to a language that doesn't use a Garbage Collector is that you have lower memory usage.
The server should be converted to a language that doesn't have a Garbage Collector so that memory usage is lower, thus resulting in servers being able to have more player slots (If the CPU can handle it). For anyone thats interested a Garbage Collector is a system where memory is not instantly free'd when it is no longer used, instead its only freed every so often, meaning that you can rack up quite a bit of memory that can't be used by your PC before the Garbage Collector frees it.
But there is no real need for the Client to be converted. Minecraft works on a 512MB PC, so the Garbage Collector isn't a real issue for clients.
Also, as for people having trouble or whatever running minecraft and not other games; I'm not really sure what's going on there. my laptop can run minecraft just fine (and of course it wouldn't if the "OMGZ it should only be a windows executable!" people had their way) but can't run very many other games (even when booted to win7) because it's simply too slow for them. So unless they've managed to concoct a special set of configurations so that minecraft runs like **** and their other game runs great I'm not sure how a scenario that is the opposite can occur.
Minecraft renders far more than modern games do because Minecraft renders everything in Cubes. Modern games geometry is generally large flat surfaces where a Shader makes it look bumpy, etc. So you hardly send anything to the graphics card to get the nice looking graphics in modern games, Minecraft on the other hand sends vast amounts of data to the graphics card.
A Simple example is a wall, in a modern game that wall would just have 6 surfaces. In Minecraft the wall would have 6 Multiplied by the number of Cubes in that wall. So with a 256x256 meter wall, in Minecraft you would have 131072 Surfaces(not including the hidden ones where the cubes touch)
Quote from siride »
In reality-land, manual memory management guarantees memory leaks at some point and it is a matter of tediously finding them
Nope. With Delphi (Which has manual memory management) you can use FastMM which will tell you when your application has leaked and give a detailed report about the history of that bit of memory's life(So you can track down where the bug in your code is). So the idea that Garbage Collectors are better because they "Prevent Leaks" from existing are rubbish.
Garbage Collectors are bad as it can take time for them to free memory. For example Minecraft's (Assuming its Memory Usage bit in F3 is correct) Memory Usage on my PC starts at say 70MB, goes upto 200MB and then jumps back down to 70MB, all in the course of 10-20 seconds. And then it starts over again, until the Garbage Collector kicks in again. 130MB wastage is bad(65%), i can only imagine what the wastage is on servers.
If it were in C++, we'd have hundreds of topics every day over C++ issues.
Not true. The vast majority of games are coded in C++ these days.. And I've never once seen a "C++ issue" posted on any game forum.
What the hell even is a "C++ issue"?
People have problems and bugs, sure. But you aren't going to see "C++ issues" unless it's something where the end user is doing his own compiling of the code or something.
Seriously, I don't know what you are thinking saying that. It just comes off as that trite "reversal" of argument that so many people do without any thought at all.
All that said, I think this constant complaint for Minecraft to be ported to C++ is silly.
Honestly, I don't really care what notch does, but I want to get a higher frame rate with the next update. To all of you with gaming pcs, NEWSFLASH: NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD A GAMING PC! I'm running minecraft on my laptop. My laptop is less than a year old. In order to get a playable framerate (assuming that you have an unplayable framerate when a creeper can cross an entire chunk in between frames) I need to play with fast graphics, smooth lighting off, and render at short, as well as setting Java's priority to high. Now then, with render at short or tiny YOU CANNOT SEE THE SUN OR THE MOON. Before you say "craft a clock" consider that it can take a long time to find gold and redstone. Another note here is that task manager is extremely stupid. Every time I close and reopen minecraft, I have to set Java's priority to high again.
We have a few possibilities here.
A) I (and undoubtedly others) continue as I am doing. It slowly gets more and more aggravating to die because without warning it is night and I am in the middle of nowhere with out adequate protection. Having to constantly deal with task manager.
:cool.gif: I try setting Java's priority to realtime. I hope to god that my laptop doesn't melt, and that maybe I can get the render distance to normal. Still have to deal with task manager.
C) I buy a new gaming laptop. I am now broke, and maybe I will be able to sell my laptop on ebay for a tenth of what it cost.
D) Notch spends some of his time working on making minecraft run faster.
E) Notch pays someone else to make minecraft run faster.
Now then, If you were in my shoes, what would you prefer? Something from the first three, or the last two?
I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Minecraft is probably one of the most system intensive games ever. To quote someone who knows what they are talking about,
Quote from Stucuk »
A Simple example is a wall, in a modern game that wall would just have 6 surfaces. In Minecraft the wall would have 6 Multiplied by the number of Cubes in that wall. So with a 256x256 meter wall, in Minecraft you would have 131072 Surfaces(not including the hidden ones where the cubes touch)
Think for a second, your probably thinking, OMG MY SYTSEM HAZ TO RENDR TAT!@2!
You can NOT just hire some people and tell them to do something and expect the problem to be fixed. More so to the point, there are optimization issues, but optimizing Minecraft isn't just going to make the game extremely faster, to the point where people are like OMG I HAZ PENTIUM 3 AND 499 FPS IN MINECRAFT ON PHAR WITH FANSY GRAFICS AND SMOOT LIGHNTNING.
Quote from Ruscris2 »
It shouldn't. notch does such a bad job at coding it in java, imagine what he would do in C++...He can't handle that.Only pro's do.
I think i have heard this phrase somewhere before..
If you don't like wolvesNotch then you don't have to tame them play the game.
Short story is yes.
Gladly, I have a PC that still gets 60+ FPS. If its RAM heavy like you said, I have 8 GB of RAM, but I would like other computers to be able to play it without a huge FPS drop. I hate low FPS so much :\. Would be higher FPS, but I have integrated graphics and its all like ffffuuuu
I take it you're not one of those 98 people out of 100 that he is verifiably smarter than, then?
I take it you mean to imply that he's smart enough to write Minecraft in C++ in a reasonable amount of time then?
Nice use of facts though, it almost made it look like you had a point
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BETA
"When we release a pure bugfix update, people get VERY upset ("NOTHING CHANGED!").. Adding features gives us much happier users. But I do realize that it's only happier users in the short term." - Notch
I see all these people bashing on Notch for being a bad programmer. Have any of them ever tried to make a game that a million people will pay money for to play? That's not even in beta? I would like to see them try. Without any bugs. With perfect framerate. And then keep everybody happy forever.
I would like to make the statement that this thread is going NOWHERE FAST. All we have here are a bunch of people who believe the Java language to be inferior and the cause to Minecrafts problems when this is most likely not the case. What is the case is that most people here are suffering from old hardware or software that hasn't been updated.
Quote from elexier909 »
Quote from Vibhor »
Quote from elexier909 »
-snip-
-snip-
Please stop talking out of your ass.
So you run with full shadows/ AA/AF ect.
WoW will only let you run the game at whatever your system is built for, you cannot push it.
Running WoW full graphics on a 8 year old graphics card, please pull the other one it has bells.
Yes the program fr minecraft needs optamising/refining but in all honesty its not that much to get a newer computer.
They only cost around 3-400 pounds for a decent system, NEVER buy somthing from the likes of dell ect, go online.
Voila, the answer to why WoW runs smoothly across multiple platforms, as I have said in a previous post. WoW knows your computer is crap and so will keep you from accessing the graphics settings that would slow down your computer.
I'll be keeping my head out of this whole argument as it is pointless and leads nowhere. I'vegot to find out why the executable of Minecraft keeps suffering from a huge Memory Leak.
I would like to make the statement that this thread is going NOWHERE FAST.
Amen! This thread always ends up turning into one giant "My favorite programming language can beat up your favorite programming language" flamewar.
To answer the OP's question in the subject: NO. STOP ASKING.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
obviously ppl don't know how hard it is to code, all they want to do is ask ask ask and force ppl to work their ass off to make them happy
Well you are not a programmer or you would know that programming isn't hard. Programming something takes time, but it isn't hard to code.
Quote from dlom »
I see all these people bashing on Notch for being a bad programmer. Have any of them ever tried to make a game that a million people will pay money for to play? That's not even in beta? I would like to see them try. Without any bugs. With perfect framerate. And then keep everybody happy forever.
How many people use an application makes absolutely no difference at all to the quality. How much money you make however should, the more money you have the better quality the product should be(No matter what development stage it is). No one has ever stated that Minecraft should be perfect, but its a well known fact that Notch has over Minecraft's development written some poor code.
Quote from Akasen »
I would like to make the statement that this thread is going NOWHERE FAST. All we have here are a bunch of people who believe the Java language to be inferior and the cause to Minecrafts problems when this is most likely not the case.
Java is inferior as it uses a Garbage Collector. No language which uses a Garbage Collector can be superior to a language which doesn't. Garbage Collectors have overheads that you don't have when you manage the memory yourself (Meaning Java is slower, despite its runtime compile stuff), they also cause you to have more memory allocated than is actually used. There is far more disadvantages than advantages when it comes to Garbage Collectors, and the advantages (Which are mainly the reduced Memory Leaks argument) are null and void when you use something like FastMM which can tell you when your application has leaked memory and give you a detailed report about the life of that bit of memory(So you can then find out where the leak is happening).
Now having said that, im not saying the client should use another Language. Its ok for Clients. Servers on the other hand would benefit from it as they deal with more memory than clients, so you could have them using less memory.
Ok guys, this thread is going in the wrong direction, let's get things straight. Minecraft is not, not, not a complex game, for ****'s sake. Stop saying it requires much more power than a modern game, etc... each cube in Minecraft requires eight vertices, and you hardly see more than a few thousand cubes at once even on far view distance (and even that is ridiculously exaggerated - try and see for yourself). On the other hand, a single character model from a relatively old game such as COD4 or whatever has several hundred thousand vertices - and you usually have a few models displayed at any given time).
The real problem with Minecraft is not the programming language, in all honesty, and although I voted "convert it" just for the sake of having an actual executable to work on instead of relying on Java, it's not Java that's making the game so slow, regardless of how much you all hate Java. The real problem is how Notch's code for chunk management is absolutely ****ing horrible and that each time the game needs to update a chunk, it slows down to a crawl while some poorly written greedy (read: unnecessarily slow) algorithm plows through data that would be nearly instantly processed using a better algorithm. Just for the example, on one of my older crappy laptops with an integrated GPU and a 1.8GHz celeron, I can get on top of a mountain on far view distance, wait for the damn chunk update code to finish, then move a bit without any chunk updates at a silky 71 frames per second roughly, which proves beyond all doubt it is not a rendering problem. But as soon as I move into loading range? Drops to less than two frames per second - find the culprit.
Face it guys - your opinion is absolutely meaningless in the matter, you have to face the fact that despite the looks, Minecraft is not a complex game at all in terms of processing power, and that this myth of "you need a better computer to play MC than you'd expect" comes from the fact that Notch has done a very bad job with the game's code. And you just cannot deny it. As much as I respect Notch for getting this game idea (this is not the subject of my post), he really needs to get on with it and optimize code that should've been optimized months ago. This wouldn't even be hard, Notch and his team could probably sit at their desks and work on it for the whole day, and get back home in the evening happy knowing that with this tiny time investment, the game has suddenly become much more enjoyable for anyone that was having issues (tbh, most Minecraft players). But instead, he takes vacations. Find the error.
I am a software developer - I have out of curiosity read Minecraft's source code - and believe me when I say that the chunk update code section is quite possibly the absolute worst code I have ever seen in my entire life.
Thanks for reading.
PS: and to people who say that updates keep getting added with new items which would make the conversion process longer, I do hope you realize that adding new items and blocks simply consists of adding an element to an array within the code and throwing an additional texture in the .jar file? Programming isn't complex guys, that's all there is to your so-called MC updates. Face it. I've looked at the code - I know how it works, you don't, if you did you wouldn't be claiming the above in the first place.
Let me simply state this, My computer (the shitty one) can run L4D2 on medium settings with a constant 60 FPS and WoW at constant 30FPS at max. The Cpu is Pentium 4 3.00 ghz but when it comes to minecraft, the game lags and has unstable framerate.Either the game's code is not optimized enough or Notch is just an incompetent coder.
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Climbing your @$$ off in minecraft
And this people is the major thrill of PC gaming. Everyone has different computer specs and thus causes a wide variety of issues with each one. And usually when one has a framerate issue they are always asked a basic question.
OS:
Ram:
GFX
CPU:
In this case I don't have enough info on your computers GPU/GFX/Graphics Card so I would like to ask what that is. Since you haven't yet posted a graphics card I can then swiftly assume that next post you will tell me you have no graphics card and judging by your CPU I can only guess you have XP earlier as an OS. There is a low chance of you having Vista.
Now let me put it here that I am not stating this to help you with your computer problem. I am merely probing you for information.
You clearly haven't noticed the issues that many people have updating stuff like DirectX 9 to the latest version, preventing them from playing their copy of [insert random title here] (yeah, there are a few MILLIONS of people still using Windows XP), it's the same **** and there are dozens different examples, and you cannot escape it unless your game doesn't depend on third party libraries to run, so no, you are mistaken and it's not reason enough.
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Curse PremiumQUOTED FOR ****ING TRUTH. The amount of ignorance in this thread was facepalmingly bad. It's almost as bad as people complaining that games take up 100% of their CPU. as if 100% CPU usage is bad. Right, we have to leave the CPU sitting there doing **** all, apparently, rather then actually being utilized... but that's sort of a sidebar. The Programming language and platform chosen are the two most entirely irrelevant choices, especially in the very cases being quoted. Logical fallacy's like "Minecraft is slow. Minecraft is written in java. <other game> runs well. It's written in C++. Therefore java is slower then C++" are so ridiculous, it's no wonder so few people who actually knew what they were talking about even bothered to post. And no, being able to open eclipse and dev/C++ doesn't mean you know what you are talking about.
Clearly, however, Siride has a clue. He knows what the **** he's talking about.
Indeed. What often happens however is that people considering switching to another language skipped the first step; they didn't do it right. A Bubble sort in C++ isn't going to go faster then even the slowest, interpreted language implementation of a quick sort or shell sort.
Also, as for people having trouble or whatever running minecraft and not other games; I'm not really sure what's going on there. my laptop can run minecraft just fine (and of course it wouldn't if the "OMGZ it should only be a windows executable!" people had their way) but can't run very many other games (even when booted to win7) because it's simply too slow for them. So unless they've managed to concoct a special set of configurations so that minecraft runs like **** and their other game runs great I'm not sure how a scenario that is the opposite can occur.
Keep in mind that this game is cross-platform between PC, Mac and Linux. If you change the coding structure it could make things worse for the other platforms.
My OS is XP because vista was **** and my older one cannot handle 7
My graphic card is unknown, when looked in dxdiag it shows some ATI name thingy but not exact name. It says Radeon series and thats it. The memory is 256 mb.
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Curse PremiumJava isn't noticeably slower than C++ for CPU tasks. Your not going to get any magic jump in FPS. The only benefit to converting to a language that doesn't use a Garbage Collector is that you have lower memory usage.
The server should be converted to a language that doesn't have a Garbage Collector so that memory usage is lower, thus resulting in servers being able to have more player slots (If the CPU can handle it). For anyone thats interested a Garbage Collector is a system where memory is not instantly free'd when it is no longer used, instead its only freed every so often, meaning that you can rack up quite a bit of memory that can't be used by your PC before the Garbage Collector frees it.
But there is no real need for the Client to be converted. Minecraft works on a 512MB PC, so the Garbage Collector isn't a real issue for clients.
Minecraft renders far more than modern games do because Minecraft renders everything in Cubes. Modern games geometry is generally large flat surfaces where a Shader makes it look bumpy, etc. So you hardly send anything to the graphics card to get the nice looking graphics in modern games, Minecraft on the other hand sends vast amounts of data to the graphics card.
A Simple example is a wall, in a modern game that wall would just have 6 surfaces. In Minecraft the wall would have 6 Multiplied by the number of Cubes in that wall. So with a 256x256 meter wall, in Minecraft you would have 131072 Surfaces(not including the hidden ones where the cubes touch)
Nope. With Delphi (Which has manual memory management) you can use FastMM which will tell you when your application has leaked and give a detailed report about the history of that bit of memory's life(So you can track down where the bug in your code is). So the idea that Garbage Collectors are better because they "Prevent Leaks" from existing are rubbish.
Garbage Collectors are bad as it can take time for them to free memory. For example Minecraft's (Assuming its Memory Usage bit in F3 is correct) Memory Usage on my PC starts at say 70MB, goes upto 200MB and then jumps back down to 70MB, all in the course of 10-20 seconds. And then it starts over again, until the Garbage Collector kicks in again. 130MB wastage is bad(65%), i can only imagine what the wastage is on servers.
Minecraft Info - Game Requirements - Minecraft Screensaver - MCI Craft
Not true. The vast majority of games are coded in C++ these days.. And I've never once seen a "C++ issue" posted on any game forum.
What the hell even is a "C++ issue"?
People have problems and bugs, sure. But you aren't going to see "C++ issues" unless it's something where the end user is doing his own compiling of the code or something.
Seriously, I don't know what you are thinking saying that. It just comes off as that trite "reversal" of argument that so many people do without any thought at all.
All that said, I think this constant complaint for Minecraft to be ported to C++ is silly.
I don't think you understand what you are talking about. Minecraft is probably one of the most system intensive games ever. To quote someone who knows what they are talking about,
Think for a second, your probably thinking, OMG MY SYTSEM HAZ TO RENDR TAT!@2!
You can NOT just hire some people and tell them to do something and expect the problem to be fixed. More so to the point, there are optimization issues, but optimizing Minecraft isn't just going to make the game extremely faster, to the point where people are like OMG I HAZ PENTIUM 3 AND 499 FPS IN MINECRAFT ON PHAR WITH FANSY GRAFICS AND SMOOT LIGHNTNING.
I think i have heard this phrase somewhere before..
If you don't like
wolvesNotch then you don't have totame themplay the game.Short story is yes.
Gladly, I have a PC that still gets 60+ FPS. If its RAM heavy like you said, I have 8 GB of RAM, but I would like other computers to be able to play it without a huge FPS drop. I hate low FPS so much :\. Would be higher FPS, but I have integrated graphics and its all like ffffuuuu
I take it you mean to imply that he's smart enough to write Minecraft in C++ in a reasonable amount of time then?
Nice use of facts though, it almost made it look like you had a point
"When we release a pure bugfix update, people get VERY upset ("NOTHING CHANGED!").. Adding features gives us much happier users. But I do realize that it's only happier users in the short term." - Notch
If you don't like it, you don't have to play it.
TS;DR
The game is still in beta. It's not perfect.
Voila, the answer to why WoW runs smoothly across multiple platforms, as I have said in a previous post. WoW knows your computer is crap and so will keep you from accessing the graphics settings that would slow down your computer.
I'll be keeping my head out of this whole argument as it is pointless and leads nowhere. I'vegot to find out why the executable of Minecraft keeps suffering from a huge Memory Leak.
Amen! This thread always ends up turning into one giant "My favorite programming language can beat up your favorite programming language" flamewar.
To answer the OP's question in the subject: NO. STOP ASKING.
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Curse PremiumWell you are not a programmer or you would know that programming isn't hard. Programming something takes time, but it isn't hard to code.
How many people use an application makes absolutely no difference at all to the quality. How much money you make however should, the more money you have the better quality the product should be(No matter what development stage it is). No one has ever stated that Minecraft should be perfect, but its a well known fact that Notch has over Minecraft's development written some poor code.
Java is inferior as it uses a Garbage Collector. No language which uses a Garbage Collector can be superior to a language which doesn't. Garbage Collectors have overheads that you don't have when you manage the memory yourself (Meaning Java is slower, despite its runtime compile stuff), they also cause you to have more memory allocated than is actually used. There is far more disadvantages than advantages when it comes to Garbage Collectors, and the advantages (Which are mainly the reduced Memory Leaks argument) are null and void when you use something like FastMM which can tell you when your application has leaked memory and give you a detailed report about the life of that bit of memory(So you can then find out where the leak is happening).
Now having said that, im not saying the client should use another Language. Its ok for Clients. Servers on the other hand would benefit from it as they deal with more memory than clients, so you could have them using less memory.
Minecraft Info - Game Requirements - Minecraft Screensaver - MCI Craft
The real problem with Minecraft is not the programming language, in all honesty, and although I voted "convert it" just for the sake of having an actual executable to work on instead of relying on Java, it's not Java that's making the game so slow, regardless of how much you all hate Java. The real problem is how Notch's code for chunk management is absolutely ****ing horrible and that each time the game needs to update a chunk, it slows down to a crawl while some poorly written greedy (read: unnecessarily slow) algorithm plows through data that would be nearly instantly processed using a better algorithm. Just for the example, on one of my older crappy laptops with an integrated GPU and a 1.8GHz celeron, I can get on top of a mountain on far view distance, wait for the damn chunk update code to finish, then move a bit without any chunk updates at a silky 71 frames per second roughly, which proves beyond all doubt it is not a rendering problem. But as soon as I move into loading range? Drops to less than two frames per second - find the culprit.
Face it guys - your opinion is absolutely meaningless in the matter, you have to face the fact that despite the looks, Minecraft is not a complex game at all in terms of processing power, and that this myth of "you need a better computer to play MC than you'd expect" comes from the fact that Notch has done a very bad job with the game's code. And you just cannot deny it. As much as I respect Notch for getting this game idea (this is not the subject of my post), he really needs to get on with it and optimize code that should've been optimized months ago. This wouldn't even be hard, Notch and his team could probably sit at their desks and work on it for the whole day, and get back home in the evening happy knowing that with this tiny time investment, the game has suddenly become much more enjoyable for anyone that was having issues (tbh, most Minecraft players). But instead, he takes vacations. Find the error.
I am a software developer - I have out of curiosity read Minecraft's source code - and believe me when I say that the chunk update code section is quite possibly the absolute worst code I have ever seen in my entire life.
Thanks for reading.
PS: and to people who say that updates keep getting added with new items which would make the conversion process longer, I do hope you realize that adding new items and blocks simply consists of adding an element to an array within the code and throwing an additional texture in the .jar file? Programming isn't complex guys, that's all there is to your so-called MC updates. Face it. I've looked at the code - I know how it works, you don't, if you did you wouldn't be claiming the above in the first place.