Oh, and you realize the post you linked is a post to him complaining about Ubisoft?..
Did you give up on even trying now?
Actually, that's the point: Treebeeizle is accusing Notch of hypocrisy because he decries being unable to play an Ubisoft game while it's down, but allows his own servers to come down which also disallows playing.
That said, there are some important differences, namely:
Notch specifically says in that very portion Treebeeizle quotes that he can't "play single player", which is something that Minecraft specifically allows so long as you've authenticated once.
What's bigger and, to be fair, not mentioned in Notch's post, is that the Ubisoft DRM has (had? I don't know if it's changed) the policy of requiring you to constantly be connected to the internet. If it glitched out at any point, you'd be forced to quit. This is why he mentions, for example, not being able to save the game.
In short, Ubisoft DRM is still far more intrusive / restrictive than Minecraft's.
Also:
Quote from Treebeeizle »
I hope to get an answer from Jeb or someone important who can actually explain to me what is going on with my money, and if the product is going to be finished in the manner that Notch described when I first helped to finance his company
They don't read the forums; you're not going to reach them here. As you've no doubt noticed, this kind of disussion is fairly polarizing. By posting here, you're preaching to the choir or to the... erm... whoever it is you preach to who aren't going to listen. I don't think there's an expression for that :smile.gif: Regardless, as you've no doubt also noticed, it tends to inflame.
However, Notch and Jeb are pretty active on Twitter, and I've seen them lurk on Reddit occasionally. I've heard tales of e-mails that have been considered, but I've got to imagine they're drowning in those. Personally, I'd love to see the kind of breakdown of expenditures you're requesting - though more out of curiosity and to feed my dream of one day running my own game studio.
dreams on....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
Wow. I knew Notch had taken alot of vacation time, but this is hilarious. I'm guessing that if Jeb wasn't there, the game would be at a complete standstill.
I see the Notch Defense Force is lighting up this thread like a firework. How sad.
What's the Notch Defense Force? Sounds like some made up band.
Wow. I knew Notch had taken alot of vacation time, but this is hilarious. I'm guessing that if Jeb wasn't there, the game would be at a complete standstill.
I see the Notch Defense Force is lighting up this thread like a firework. How sad.
What's the Notch Defense Force? Sounds like some made up band.
You know the "Notch Defense Force" is much larger than the haters right?
It just so happens haters like to be more vocal on internet forums.
When you paid for the game. Where does it say that Notch had to finish it? Oh, that right, it was a vague "When it's done statement". Notch has millions of dollars at his disposal, and a growing success. All Notch has to do is drop an update once every few years. Then when Notch hit's 60 years old, he'll release the final update saying "Heres the final product, I've kept my promise".
BTW, minecraft has always been slow to update. The secret Friday updates were cool, but left the game horrible bugged (Remember when leaves DIDN'T fall? Snow no longer works, and have yet to see sheep eat grass). I assume because Notch added all these cool features, left the game in a semi-broken state and is trying to fix the game while adding a few things to keep it interesting.
As for being scammed. Are you really missing your 10 euros? Seriously? The amount of hours you put in this game having fun isn't worth your money? I'm sorry if your ungrateful, never to be satisfied person.
You know the "Notch Defense Force" is much larger than the haters right?
It just so happens haters like to be more vocal on internet forums.
How do you know this? How would you even find out? NDF is just a moniker that indignant players gave those people who blindly support Notch. It isn't a actuall group (AFAIK)
1) the original post contains some very subjective arguements (I'll get to that) and that undermines both sides of the arguement.
2)Most people aren't posting here. Forums will be a skewed chunk of the userbase.
3)
Anyway, I'm going to say I can see a bit of both sides. I don't think minecraft is dying. I do think notch has been slacking. I do think that the level of creativity and output he managed wasn't sustainable, and I do *hope* that he's taking the vacations to keep himself refreshed. Anyone ready SMBC? Zach keeps studying new things to keep his comic fresh. Of course I'm always quite aware I'm fairly likely to be wrong on this.
The emphasis should have shifted to quality control by now and I feel it has, though I do have some personal grievances with the lack of basic functionality like the nether, on SMP, while wolves are added. I find the slower updates a little disheartening and it does feel like notch is slowing down to collect plaudits, but that in doing so he's no longer deserving of them. Assuming that is, that his present behavior isn't anomalous, that he won't work fairly solidly, a few days off here and there and his mum's birthday aside, for a while.
If the trend continues, minecraft will shudder to a halt as it's core playerbase abandons it and stops trying to get new friends to play. I have to admit the wolves update boils my blood, he's busy pandering to Peter all talk and no outstandingly amazing games Molyneux instead of fixing really big issues that'd add a lot to the game, if we don't see fixes for those alongside the wolves, then I'll be unhappy.
Of course I'm using a lot of ifs and that's the point. if if if. The original post is built on solid evidence but it's built on guessing conjecture and subjective assessments. I don't agree with some of the original poster's value judgements at all, and the numbers produced here fail to tell us a lot. A lot of the evidence used by both sides is actually just second guessing mojang. All of that adds up too.. not much. There's no proof Notch isn't slacking off and doesn't care, there's no proof he's of his managerial style or what he is or isn't doing. Twitter updates and the word of notch are just short insights, they don't cover everything going on. They don't cover how much oversight and how much of his vision notch is adding. They don't cover if he's communicating with the team while away. They don't cover if the team is working on bug fixes, or if they're building things from scratch or what.
But then maybe 1.3 will be a colossal update. We'll see. Which I guess sums it up, the post is built on facts but the conclusion takes a leap. Not an illogical one, but it assumes a very possible future is a certainty while it's not more than just a possible (though as I said, very possible) outcome.
...I do have some personal grievances with the lack of basic functionality like the nether, on SMP, while wolves are added...
^ This ^ This ^ This
Ever since I got the Alpha, I see content being added, but bugs not being fixed. SMP is where the future of Minecraft is and the Nether is the ultimate goal, but neither have had much love. We bought the game early as an investment and are eager to see where it's going, but instead of getting an informative list of planned updates/fixes or even an analysis on what needs to be addressed, we get the occasional whim or wishful thought mumbled on tumblr or twitter.
Mojang are far from professional and that reputation is now stuck with them. At this stage I have little faith in their ability to produce a quality product and will not support their other projects. My attitude will not change until I see some improvement in their handling of Minecraft. I'd be more than willing to assist in Quality Assurance, but they've hardly given me or anyone else that opportunity. Sure they have a lot of feedback to sieve through, but that in itself says a lot.
He was pointing out the hypocrisy of notch complaining that he couldn't play his game because the servers for Ubisoft were acting up and the DRM in the game required him to connect to the server. He urged readers not to buy Ubisoft games.
Fast forward almost a year later and SMP players are facing the same issue with his servers.
Quote by notch on the problem with Ubisoft's servers and having to connect to play:
Also, I’d like to say something directly to the engineers who implemented this:
Shame on you! Bad nerd!
I'm glad I got my money's worth out of minecraft, but I'm going to be seriously pissed if development stops and the game still has to connect to notch's servers to allow players on SMP. Because eventually those servers are going to go down...
People could always make an alternate authentication server mod if that ever happened. Client side DRM is not exactly hard to circumvent, moreso when said DRM doesn't exist
We got Nether, in singleplayer only, or SMP if you've got it modded to work and it only sorta works. We got two new mobs, three new blocks which serve a total of ONE purpose each and a great place to go get lava if you need it. And that's about it. It's boring. It's super boring. And instead of continuing to add things to it, or fix it in SMP, or anything else besides completely ignore it, we get wolves (eventually, hopefully *something* else that update) and 3 half blocks...a bug fix or two...Squid. They were kinda cool...ultimately pretty useless. Uhm...colored blocks were great...for decoration. i think the best thing since the Nether update has got to be beds and redstone repeaters, neither of which i use. So. All in all...i guess i'm just bitching about how things keep being implemented and they're ultimately pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. And the updates just keep coming slower and slower. "Bigger and more stable updates!" my ass.
Reading this chart was hilarious. I applaud whoever made it.
I do see a bit why people are complaining now though. I happen to be a pretty patient person though, and I really don't mind the current state of Minecraft right now. New additions are a bonus.
To a certain degree, I agree with the OP. But, I don't think that Minecraft is dying. I'm not a fan of notch's work, it's pretty sloppy. But, he does put heart into the game, and 10$ was -very- worth it. Even if the game doesn't receive any more updates, that 10$ is still worth it. But, I do feel that he could put a bit more effort into the game.
The OP is not a troll, he's just stating his opinion. You guys can state yours too, and if your opinion is "lol op = troll", then you really need to shut up. Minecraft is a great game, and I don't care how it goes anymore. I gave up expecting the "expansion packs" and "updates" a long time ago, I just settle with mining my stony caverns. Ever since I uninstalled all mods two or so months ago, I've been really enjoying the game. The mods were like a temporary boost, with a heavy after-drag.
TL;DR: OP isn't a troll. Minecraft won't die. Notch can do better. Simple.
Reading this chart was hilarious. I applaud whoever made it.
I do see a bit why people are complaining now though. I happen to be a pretty patient person though, and I really don't mind the current state of Minecraft right now. New additions are a bonus.
Agreed. Although more frequent updates wouldn't hurt, perhaps they have something special up their sleeves.
I personally love the part of the chart where 50% of 2011 is only 3 months into the year.
I still believe that when the office is done things will settle down and they'll get off their ass and implement things that add to the gameplay directly.
i really hope you're right, i really do. i would *love* some new *amazing* things, i'll gladly wait a month or two for an update, if it's actually one of those aforementioned "Bigger, stabler" updates.
What's so difficult in giving us more half blocks? Just recolor the current ones, bam, done.
What about half of the mods that are floating around, some have been implemented already, why not suck up some of the other ones? i know that's not original content, but the mods are there for a reason, people like them, want them, use them. Why not just...acquire them?
These little things can't possibly take that much time, why aren't they being done? Take Blizzard, for example, a lot of the really great mods for World of Warcraft have been taken in and done in a more Blizzardy way. Which is awesome and the way things should be done.
I love this thread and agree 100%.
I also like OP's avatar, made me giggle.
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to have a funny avatar!
(Seriously, every time I see it I cant help but watch)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
Treebeeizle, instead of swallowing your pride, and continuing on, playing Minecraft, you choose to complain that Minecraft is dying. If it is dying, then leave it be. Obviously no one would care. You are defending your argument with worthless quotes from his blog and a false sense of entitlement. I bought Minecraft during alpha, and when I did, it said this:
Please note that when you buy the game, you're paying for the game as it is right now!
Now, this is quoted from the site right now, but it has been there for a long time. With alpha he promised any add-ons and expansions free. So far he hasn't broken this promise. I bought it, everything else is free. Just, please, take it up in a support email to Mojang if you feel it's that important. Right now, you are talking to people who mostly disagree with you.
I still believe that when the office is done things will settle down and they'll get off their ass and implement things that add to the gameplay directly.
Question:
Notch knew the company will be going away for two weeks. Why did they schedule the remodelling for when they returned? It's not like they couldn't have the workers come in when they're not there. In fact, that's the way that 99.9% of companies have remodelling done.
I always see people badmouthing Notch, saying he takes too many vacations, and I wasn't really sure why, so I decided to take a look. I went through each and every post on Notch's tumblr and I marked down each and every post about Minecraft updates, and every post which talked about vacation days, and made notes along the way.
After doing this, I can now understand why people are getting upset about lack of updates. Notch made the vast majority of his money over the summer of 2010, which is when he was frequently updating the game, almost a vast improvement to gameplay every week. That quickly changed after he got praised by PCgamer and Penny-Arcade. This is around the time that I received Minecraft as a gift. However, directly after the huge surge of purchases, Minecraft development ground to a halt. The only time I even consider playing the game is when an innovative new mod comes out. Runecraft was a lot of fun to play with friends, and when I think of the time I enjoyed the game the most, it was when we were building a Chrono Trigger in Runecraft.
Almost all of the Minecraft "updates" since Halloween have just been bug fixes, which are almost immediately undone during the next update, as each new update breaks the game a little bit more. However, ever since Jens (is that his name? Or is it Jakob?) took over main development of Minecraft, it has gotten a bit better.
I'm sure this is going to be locked and written off as a troll thread, but just look at my image. I didn't make any of that up, that's all directly from his Tumblr. I'm sure that I'd find more if I looked over his twitter, but it's really not worth the time.
So, here we are. Let's have an actual discussion about the development of Minecraft without pointing fingers and screaming "troll" because our opinion differs, as mine is based on fact.
What do you get more enjoyment out of, vanilla Minecraft or modded Minecraft?
**** man, if you like the game, PLAY IT.
If you don't like it, DON'T PLAY IT.
Simple as that.
No need to get psycho stalker and track Notch's every move...
Question:
Notch knew the company will be going away for two weeks. Why did they schedule the remodelling for when they returned? It's not like they couldn't have the workers come in when they're not there. In fact, that's the way that 99.9% of companies have remodelling done.
They don't actually own the office; they just rent it. I get the impression they don't get a whole lot of say as to when the maintenance happens.
Plus, IIRC, it's been going on for a while now; since before they left for vacations. So at least some of it has been going on while they were gone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This forum ticked me off so much I went to random.org and set my password to something I'll never be able to remember, then switched my password reset to a throwaway.
**** man, if you like the game, PLAY IT.
If you don't like it, DON'T PLAY IT.
Simple as that.
No need to get psycho stalker and track Notch's every move...
When one puts one's every move on the internet, one should be prepared for the inevitable stalkership.
Actually, that's the point: Treebeeizle is accusing Notch of hypocrisy because he decries being unable to play an Ubisoft game while it's down, but allows his own servers to come down which also disallows playing.
That said, there are some important differences, namely:
Notch specifically says in that very portion Treebeeizle quotes that he can't "play single player", which is something that Minecraft specifically allows so long as you've authenticated once.
What's bigger and, to be fair, not mentioned in Notch's post, is that the Ubisoft DRM has (had? I don't know if it's changed) the policy of requiring you to constantly be connected to the internet. If it glitched out at any point, you'd be forced to quit. This is why he mentions, for example, not being able to save the game.
In short, Ubisoft DRM is still far more intrusive / restrictive than Minecraft's.
Also:
They don't read the forums; you're not going to reach them here. As you've no doubt noticed, this kind of disussion is fairly polarizing. By posting here, you're preaching to the choir or to the... erm... whoever it is you preach to who aren't going to listen. I don't think there's an expression for that :smile.gif: Regardless, as you've no doubt also noticed, it tends to inflame.
However, Notch and Jeb are pretty active on Twitter, and I've seen them lurk on Reddit occasionally. I've heard tales of e-mails that have been considered, but I've got to imagine they're drowning in those. Personally, I'd love to see the kind of breakdown of expenditures you're requesting - though more out of curiosity and to feed my dream of one day running my own game studio.
dreams on....
What's the Notch Defense Force? Sounds like some made up band.
MineScience - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=166560
Dragonator - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=141803
Sand Skiffs - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=233346
You know the "Notch Defense Force" is much larger than the haters right?
It just so happens haters like to be more vocal on internet forums.
BTW, minecraft has always been slow to update. The secret Friday updates were cool, but left the game horrible bugged (Remember when leaves DIDN'T fall? Snow no longer works, and have yet to see sheep eat grass). I assume because Notch added all these cool features, left the game in a semi-broken state and is trying to fix the game while adding a few things to keep it interesting.
As for being scammed. Are you really missing your 10 euros? Seriously? The amount of hours you put in this game having fun isn't worth your money? I'm sorry if your ungrateful, never to be satisfied person.
How do you know this? How would you even find out? NDF is just a moniker that indignant players gave those people who blindly support Notch. It isn't a actuall group (AFAIK)
1) the original post contains some very subjective arguements (I'll get to that) and that undermines both sides of the arguement.
2)Most people aren't posting here. Forums will be a skewed chunk of the userbase.
3)
Anyway, I'm going to say I can see a bit of both sides. I don't think minecraft is dying. I do think notch has been slacking. I do think that the level of creativity and output he managed wasn't sustainable, and I do *hope* that he's taking the vacations to keep himself refreshed. Anyone ready SMBC? Zach keeps studying new things to keep his comic fresh. Of course I'm always quite aware I'm fairly likely to be wrong on this.
The emphasis should have shifted to quality control by now and I feel it has, though I do have some personal grievances with the lack of basic functionality like the nether, on SMP, while wolves are added. I find the slower updates a little disheartening and it does feel like notch is slowing down to collect plaudits, but that in doing so he's no longer deserving of them. Assuming that is, that his present behavior isn't anomalous, that he won't work fairly solidly, a few days off here and there and his mum's birthday aside, for a while.
If the trend continues, minecraft will shudder to a halt as it's core playerbase abandons it and stops trying to get new friends to play. I have to admit the wolves update boils my blood, he's busy pandering to Peter all talk and no outstandingly amazing games Molyneux instead of fixing really big issues that'd add a lot to the game, if we don't see fixes for those alongside the wolves, then I'll be unhappy.
Of course I'm using a lot of ifs and that's the point. if if if. The original post is built on solid evidence but it's built on guessing conjecture and subjective assessments. I don't agree with some of the original poster's value judgements at all, and the numbers produced here fail to tell us a lot. A lot of the evidence used by both sides is actually just second guessing mojang. All of that adds up too.. not much. There's no proof Notch isn't slacking off and doesn't care, there's no proof he's of his managerial style or what he is or isn't doing. Twitter updates and the word of notch are just short insights, they don't cover everything going on. They don't cover how much oversight and how much of his vision notch is adding. They don't cover if he's communicating with the team while away. They don't cover if the team is working on bug fixes, or if they're building things from scratch or what.
But then maybe 1.3 will be a colossal update. We'll see. Which I guess sums it up, the post is built on facts but the conclusion takes a leap. Not an illogical one, but it assumes a very possible future is a certainty while it's not more than just a possible (though as I said, very possible) outcome.
^ This ^ This ^ This
Ever since I got the Alpha, I see content being added, but bugs not being fixed. SMP is where the future of Minecraft is and the Nether is the ultimate goal, but neither have had much love. We bought the game early as an investment and are eager to see where it's going, but instead of getting an informative list of planned updates/fixes or even an analysis on what needs to be addressed, we get the occasional whim or wishful thought mumbled on tumblr or twitter.
Mojang are far from professional and that reputation is now stuck with them. At this stage I have little faith in their ability to produce a quality product and will not support their other projects. My attitude will not change until I see some improvement in their handling of Minecraft. I'd be more than willing to assist in Quality Assurance, but they've hardly given me or anyone else that opportunity. Sure they have a lot of feedback to sieve through, but that in itself says a lot.
People could always make an alternate authentication server mod if that ever happened. Client side DRM is not exactly hard to circumvent, moreso when said DRM doesn't exist
I do see a bit why people are complaining now though. I happen to be a pretty patient person though, and I really don't mind the current state of Minecraft right now. New additions are a bonus.
The OP is not a troll, he's just stating his opinion. You guys can state yours too, and if your opinion is "lol op = troll", then you really need to shut up. Minecraft is a great game, and I don't care how it goes anymore. I gave up expecting the "expansion packs" and "updates" a long time ago, I just settle with mining my stony caverns. Ever since I uninstalled all mods two or so months ago, I've been really enjoying the game. The mods were like a temporary boost, with a heavy after-drag.
TL;DR: OP isn't a troll. Minecraft won't die. Notch can do better. Simple.
Agreed. Although more frequent updates wouldn't hurt, perhaps they have something special up their sleeves.
I personally love the part of the chart where 50% of 2011 is only 3 months into the year.
i really hope you're right, i really do. i would *love* some new *amazing* things, i'll gladly wait a month or two for an update, if it's actually one of those aforementioned "Bigger, stabler" updates.
What's so difficult in giving us more half blocks? Just recolor the current ones, bam, done.
What about half of the mods that are floating around, some have been implemented already, why not suck up some of the other ones? i know that's not original content, but the mods are there for a reason, people like them, want them, use them. Why not just...acquire them?
These little things can't possibly take that much time, why aren't they being done? Take Blizzard, for example, a lot of the really great mods for World of Warcraft have been taken in and done in a more Blizzardy way. Which is awesome and the way things should be done.
I also like OP's avatar, made me giggle.
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to have a funny avatar!
(Seriously, every time I see it I cant help but watch)
Now, this is quoted from the site right now, but it has been there for a long time. With alpha he promised any add-ons and expansions free. So far he hasn't broken this promise. I bought it, everything else is free. Just, please, take it up in a support email to Mojang if you feel it's that important. Right now, you are talking to people who mostly disagree with you.
Question:
Notch knew the company will be going away for two weeks. Why did they schedule the remodelling for when they returned? It's not like they couldn't have the workers come in when they're not there. In fact, that's the way that 99.9% of companies have remodelling done.
**** man, if you like the game, PLAY IT.
If you don't like it, DON'T PLAY IT.
Simple as that.
No need to get psycho stalker and track Notch's every move...
They don't actually own the office; they just rent it. I get the impression they don't get a whole lot of say as to when the maintenance happens.
Plus, IIRC, it's been going on for a while now; since before they left for vacations. So at least some of it has been going on while they were gone.
When one puts one's every move on the internet, one should be prepared for the inevitable stalkership.