We might as well put off this discussion until SMP comes out and we discover what the multiplayer environment will REALLY be like. I really don't think it will be as bad as everyone fears. Sure there will be the occasional jerk, but I think that the majority of the paying community would treat each other decently enough. (At least I hope so!)
True, though one person per server could anger half the people on it, more if they were good enough.
Edit: I love your current post count. (For future reference it was 666)
Not to sound like a ****, but imo if you want to show off your CREATIONS you should do so in CREATIVE.
Creative is for building only, and lacks many features of survival. Building is a part of Minecraft as a whole, not exclusive to Creative. I already stated numerous times in my previous posts that I wanted PvP and wars in the game. My point was about balancing the game so that building and mining are viable ways to spend your time ingame, especially given that those two features are the staples of the game. If you wanted PvP-only, there are much better games for that. Why can't we both show off our creations and have PvP at the same time? Please read the whole conversation before just jumping in and making assumptions.
Quote from BR0tholomew »
But I am. Just because I said obscure doesn't mean it's not something cool. I've hollowed out mountains and made elaborate underground dungeons, which are cool, yet they're also safe*. If I trust somebody enough, I'll tell them the location of my base. Hell, I have friends that I can't wait to work alongside with too, but I can still be careful.
*I know that there's still the chance of some jackoff digging into my base. It's still more safe then building towers and castles
The problem is when someone you don't like does see it, you'll have to completely restart somewhere else because your only defense (secrecy) has been breached. Also, it makes you far more limited in what you can build, and people who don't have friends who play Minecraft will basically be playing single player, since secrecy is apparently the only viable method of defense.
This also messes up the PvP factor: Since every base is hidden, it'll be very difficult or impossible to retaliate against someone, giving people more incentive to perform attacks without consequence. There would be absolutely no penalty for death for them if they weren't carrying anything valuable. It just encourages people to be a **** and not worry about being punished for their dickish actions.
Quote from BR0tholomew »
Alright. Name a multiplayer game other then SMP with a totally malleable environment where you can break into someone's fortress any way you want using tools that you had to create yourself, or the situation can be flipped and you have to create a base for yourself that would make it difficult to be found/infiltrated/destroyed.
The reason PVP in Minecraft is so interesting to me is because that it takes place in a sandbox environment.
You just admitted yourself that building obvious fortresses isn't a viable means of defense so how often do you think you will come across one?
Quote from BR0tholomew »
Fair enough. Everyone wants to play the way they want to. It's just that imo if you don't make your structures hidden then it's your fault for expanding on the possibility of something bad happening to it.
An argument that can justify any situation, no matter how unbalanced. We're talking about balancing the game
so that building outside is viable. I think everyone is already aware of what they can and can't do. That's the whole reason for this debate.
FFS GUYS Griefing is purposely doing the same thing to someone to cause them grief. Doing it out of need of resources or etc is not. what's so hard about this?
With the need of resources you could get yourself..."Raiding" is pointless if you would just spend the time gathering instead of being an ass...
I really hate how a good part of the minecraft community just wants to kill people, for the resources they could easily get themselves or not.
And I hate how people (like you) assume that just because some people are willing to be careful in lieu of setting rules that limit how we play. Just because I'm willing to deal with raiders doesn't mean I'm going to be a raider. I'd be lying if I said I'd never raid someone, because at some point of course I'd give it a shot. But that doesn't mean that I'd condemn myself to doing nothing but plundering. You paint us as wanting nothing but to destroy, where we/I just want the ability to destroy.
Exactly. Thanks for the support, man.
I'll probably make my server have huge penalties for dying if you pvp someone else for no reason. Like you get tagged a pvper then if you die you have to wait like 1.5 mins or something to respawn or some other penalty when you respawn. And maybe make it harder to destroy blocks made by other players if that's possible, but I don't think it would be...
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Quote from bomblol »
The current state of minecraft makes it far too hard to masturbate to, I have to build my own pornography pixel by pixel.
No. There's no such thing as griefing in SMP.
It's called bullying or trolling, people. Not griefing.
I hate how the word 'griefing is so misused...
Actually, the term is used perfectly in this situation. A griefer is someone who purposely harasses other players in a video game, and along with this, griefing is a griefer harassing. Both bullying and trolling could also be used, but neither term describes the action as directly as griefing.
There are plenty of ways to grief, like your example with the lava, Chris. What annoys me is when people say that going to someone else's base and taking their diamond or whatever is griefing.
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Quote from bomblol »
The current state of minecraft makes it far too hard to masturbate to, I have to build my own pornography pixel by pixel.
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Quote from Sir Nomington »
Oh dear lord...
-Stealing is not griefing
-Player versus Player is not griefing
-Killing players in general is not griefing
-Running around with buckets of lava and stacks of obsidian, using the lava to flood structures and obsidian to lock players in their fiery demise whilst shouting "I AM THE LIZARD QUEEN" is most definitely griefing.
-Stealing is not griefing
-Player versus Player is not griefing
-Killing players in general is not griefing
-Running around with buckets of lava and stacks of obsidian, using the lava to flood structures and obsidian to lock players in their fiery demise whilst shouting "I AM THE LIZARD QUEEN" is most definitely griefing.
I suppose being a clever theif or assassin is not griefing. Running around with a flint and tinder and burning poor newbie Jimmy's hut at sunset is most certainly griefing.
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[quote=8bit]
By balance, do you mean make it totally worthless?
I suppose being a clever theif or assassin is not griefing. Running around with a flint and tinder and burning poor newbie Jimmy's hut at sunset is most certainly griefing.
Yes...I am going to make myself a very low priority target and keep a chest right outside of my cobblestone home filled with iron and any high-grade materials I find and don't use, though I will keep a few iron pickaxes around so I have the capability to mine everything and keep raiders of my back. Anyone who kills me or destroys my house will then have no reason and can easily be considered a griefer. The good thing is that I enjoy digging to find minerals and building with all of the waste.
Guys! Griefing is whatever the hell the server you're playing on says it is!YOU do not get a choice in the matter, and we do NOT want to hear your opinion about what griefing should be!
If the server rules say that everything goes, then nothing is griefing; if the server rules say that even looking funny at another person is wrong, then just about everything is griefing. If you don't like it, switch server. If the server doesn't say any rules, then... I guess you should get a better server. But you certainly do not get to make up your own rules for it instead!
And we DEFINITELY do not want to hear about how you think that:
-Intentionally being an ass is only griefing if the person doesn't benefit from it in-game.
-Nothing is griefing if it's within the possibilities of the game.
-Cobblestone or lava are some sort of super-material that nobody else can do anything about.
-Spying on someone is completely impossible.
-Death is an ultimatum.
-MAKING YOUR TEXT BIGGER WILL MAKE YOUR OPINIONS MORE VALID THAN OTHERS!
-Griefing should be everything but X because you really want to be able to do X even if it pisses other people off.
-Griefing is just non-existent whatsoever.
And if you're thinking "But Plasma, my dictionary defines griefing as X" then you should just get out of the thread for not understanding the concept of words having unique meanings for individual groups of people!
Now to watch as everyone completely ignores everything I said. In 3... 2... 1...
Isn't the point of this thread to argue about what griefing is?
Guys! Griefing is whatever the hell the server you're playing on says it is!YOU do not get a choice in the matter, and we do NOT want to hear your opinion about what griefing should be!
If the server rules say that everything goes, then nothing is griefing; if the server rules say that even looking funny at another person is wrong, then just about everything is griefing. If you don't like it, switch server. If the server doesn't say any rules, then... I guess you should get a better server. But you certainly do not get to make up your own rules for it instead!
And we DEFINITELY do not want to hear about how you think that:
-Intentionally being an ass is only griefing if the person doesn't benefit from it in-game.
-Nothing is griefing if it's within the possibilities of the game.
-Cobblestone or lava are some sort of super-material that nobody else can do anything about.
-Spying on someone is completely impossible.
-Death is an ultimatum.
-MAKING YOUR TEXT BIGGER WILL MAKE YOUR OPINIONS MORE VALID THAN OTHERS!
-Griefing should be everything but X because you really want to be able to do X even if it pisses other people off.
-Griefing is just non-existent whatsoever.
And if you're thinking "But Plasma, my dictionary defines griefing as X" then you should just get out of the thread for not understanding the concept of words having unique meanings for individual groups of people!
Now to watch as everyone completely ignores everything I said. In 3... 2... 1...
Servers don't define what griefing is, they define the rules you must follow. If you were to like you said, 'look at another person funny' and got banned, that's because you broke a rule of that server. You already know the definition of griefing so copy pasting it here won't do anything to help my argument, but, since I have nothing else to post; Greifing is purposely causing grief to another player; The act of causing grief for no personal gain;
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Quote from bomblol »
The current state of minecraft makes it far too hard to masturbate to, I have to build my own pornography pixel by pixel.
Randomly killing people, stealing, etc is not Griefing. Burning down a city for no reason is. This is Smp, Survival of the fittest. If you guys don't want to worry about death and getting your stuff stolen than go to a Pve (Player vs environment) server, or fight back. Its common sense.
There's griefing in SMP. It's just a lot harder. Especially if you make your placed FILLED with deathtraps and other such things. Anyone who says there's no griefing in SMP obviously doesn't pay attention to TNT and lava buckets.
stealing is not Griefing. Burning down a city for no reason and randomly killing people is. If you guys don't want to worry about death and getting your stuff stolen than go to a Pve (Player vs environment) server, or fight back.
Fixed for truth and to make it less offensive for people who like peace.
stealing is not Griefing. Burning down a city for no reason and randomly killing people is. If you guys don't want to worry about death and getting your stuff stolen than go to a Pve (Player vs environment) server, or fight back.
Fixed for truth and to make it less offensive for people who like peace.
derp
Randomly killing people is fine.
Blowing up everything they've built and making the spawn point into a lava-filled pit, however...
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The inquisitors were torturing Harry.
First, Ignatius used the rock.
Then Billy asked Harry if he wanted to read his BDSM blog. Harry was so surprised that his pants flew right off. He was wearing women's underpants. The inquisitors were wearing them, too.
stealing is not Griefing. Burning down a city for no reason and randomly killing people is. If you guys don't want to worry about death and getting your stuff stolen than go to a Pve (Player vs environment) server, or fight back.
Fixed for truth and to make it less offensive for people who like peace.
derp
Randomly killing people is fine.
Blowing up everything they've built and making the spawn point into a lava-filled pit, however...
So you are going to kill someone just because you can?
If so, I have no respect for you.
If you don't like how a server is going, than join another that fits your needs, or make your own.
Griefing is what ever the server op decides it to be.
True, though one person per server could anger half the people on it, more if they were good enough.
Edit: I love your current post count. (For future reference it was 666)
Creative is for building only, and lacks many features of survival. Building is a part of Minecraft as a whole, not exclusive to Creative. I already stated numerous times in my previous posts that I wanted PvP and wars in the game. My point was about balancing the game so that building and mining are viable ways to spend your time ingame, especially given that those two features are the staples of the game. If you wanted PvP-only, there are much better games for that. Why can't we both show off our creations and have PvP at the same time? Please read the whole conversation before just jumping in and making assumptions.
The problem is when someone you don't like does see it, you'll have to completely restart somewhere else because your only defense (secrecy) has been breached. Also, it makes you far more limited in what you can build, and people who don't have friends who play Minecraft will basically be playing single player, since secrecy is apparently the only viable method of defense.
This also messes up the PvP factor: Since every base is hidden, it'll be very difficult or impossible to retaliate against someone, giving people more incentive to perform attacks without consequence. There would be absolutely no penalty for death for them if they weren't carrying anything valuable. It just encourages people to be a **** and not worry about being punished for their dickish actions.
You just admitted yourself that building obvious fortresses isn't a viable means of defense so how often do you think you will come across one?
An argument that can justify any situation, no matter how unbalanced. We're talking about balancing the game
so that building outside is viable. I think everyone is already aware of what they can and can't do. That's the whole reason for this debate.
Exactly. Thanks for the support, man.
I'll probably make my server have huge penalties for dying if you pvp someone else for no reason. Like you get tagged a pvper then if you die you have to wait like 1.5 mins or something to respawn or some other penalty when you respawn. And maybe make it harder to destroy blocks made by other players if that's possible, but I don't think it would be...
I am the milkman, my milk is delicious!
Actually, the term is used perfectly in this situation. A griefer is someone who purposely harasses other players in a video game, and along with this, griefing is a griefer harassing. Both bullying and trolling could also be used, but neither term describes the action as directly as griefing.
It's not misused at all.
I am the milkman, my milk is delicious!
If servers won't agree to use the official definition of griefing as griefing, then it'll vary server to server.
...but I really AM the Lizard Queen...
@Sir Nomington
look at my sig...
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
[quote=8bit]
By balance, do you mean make it totally worthless?
Yes...I am going to make myself a very low priority target and keep a chest right outside of my cobblestone home filled with iron and any high-grade materials I find and don't use, though I will keep a few iron pickaxes around so I have the capability to mine everything and keep raiders of my back. Anyone who kills me or destroys my house will then have no reason and can easily be considered a griefer. The good thing is that I enjoy digging to find minerals and building with all of the waste.
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
Isn't the point of this thread to argue about what griefing is?
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
Servers don't define what griefing is, they define the rules you must follow. If you were to like you said, 'look at another person funny' and got banned, that's because you broke a rule of that server. You already know the definition of griefing so copy pasting it here won't do anything to help my argument, but, since I have nothing else to post; Greifing is purposely causing grief to another player; The act of causing grief for no personal gain;
I am the milkman, my milk is delicious!
Fixed for truth and to make it less offensive for people who like peace.
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
derp
Randomly killing people is fine.
Blowing up everything they've built and making the spawn point into a lava-filled pit, however...
First, Ignatius used the rock.
Then Billy asked Harry if he wanted to read his BDSM blog. Harry was so surprised that his pants flew right off. He was wearing women's underpants. The inquisitors were wearing them, too.
They realized that they were all men of the lord.
- 30 Hs
So you are going to kill someone just because you can?
If so, I have no respect for you.
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
Griefing is what ever the server op decides it to be.