Once again we are distracting from the real issue: attacking is too easy, defending is too hard. This holds true for both griefing and "fair" hostilities. This is the problem that should be addressed. Griefers should simply be dealt with the same way as any other attacker: killing them and putting them on the hostile list.
Non Grief - Rob someones house,steal from chests,Asking before raiding someones base (Some people work hard on their base and dont want their base destoryed without warning(Maybe you guys can make a treaty! Or set all war!),Fighting each other (only if they want to),You can kill people like if your payed to do it.
Grief - Burning down a whole forest just to do it,Burning down someones house just do to it(Some people work hard),Rob someones house then wreck it (They work HARD on it),Killing a player for no reason, Wait at spawn and kill people over and over,Kill someone then rob them then burn their house down while laughing
Summary - Dont RDM, Talk to each other before a raid with them because sometimes they dont want to fight, You can rob,No burning down their place or breaking it
Even if noone agrees with me this is whats happening on my server so yea
Non Grief - Rob someones house,steal from chests,Asking before raiding someones base (Some people work hard on their base and dont want their base destoryed without warning(Maybe you guys can make a treaty! Or set all war!),Fighting each other (only if they want to),You can kill people like if your payed to do it.
Grief - Burning down a whole forest just to do it,Burning down someones house just do to it(Some people work hard),Rob someones house then wreck it (They work HARD on it),Killing a player for no reason, Wait at spawn and kill people over and over,Kill someone then rob them then burn their house down while laughing
Summary - Dont RDM, Talk to each other before a raid with them because sometimes they dont want to fight, You can rob,No burning down their place or breaking it
Even if noone agrees with me this is whats happening on my server so yea
Wreck someones house so they have to rebuild. Burn a forest to deprive other players of wood. Killing for no reason can be used to take materials.
"everyone has to walk for ten minutes to get a single block of wood"
That sounds like a benefit to me. Especially if I had already stocked on wood beforehand.
ANY of your enemies disadvantages are advantages for you.
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Quote from cardgame »
Falling through a hole in the fabric of space/time isn't magic, just luck.
Stealing something or killing someone for something wouldn't be griefing but killing someone over and over again even if you know they don't have anything you want is griefing because you're ruining their gameplay experience.
And having all your **** stolen does not ruin your gameplay experience?
"Oh hey, I lost hours and hours of work! What fun!"
yaright
Thats your problem for not hiding your stuff good enough.
Lighting trees on fire, as i said, can be used to deprive others of wood, an essential material in the game....
There will be greifing. If someone goes around just taking random blocks out of buildings for no reason. that's greifing. However, if someone digs a tunnel into your secret stash, takes some of your valuables, that's not greifing. random destruction for the sake of random destruction is greifing.
Honestly though, people seem to be way too paranoid about it. like everyone is going to greif all the time.
Thats your problem for not hiding your stuff good enough.
This isn't an argument, it can be used to justify anything. Minecraft is first and foremost a game about mining, surviving monsters, and building things, but the stakes make it so it is balanced more in the favor of killing and destroying. What is even the point of playing MP if you have to hide from everyone?
Think of creative river, Think about you building your great building (even in survival) and someone destorys it, Think of those hours you built on it.The city you built with skyscrapers and a giant head of notch with lava falls gets ruined because its "Part of the game". The Part of the game griefing is just a way to not say its griefing,And you know you did it just to do it and just to mess with them. So all that stuff you had in your place GONE while your towns on fire and holes everywhere. You would need hours to remine,Rebuild,Find stuff,ect.
Destorying someones hard work for the reason of "Part of the game" or just doing it is GRIEFING. You just said a word so you can go by. Its like someone on a rts built his base around your main HQ then saying Im stupid or it was a accident i dont know where to place stuff. Thats just a word to get out of you griefing or just being a jerk.
"everyone has to walk for ten minutes to get a single block of wood"
That sounds like a benefit to me. Especially if I had already stocked on wood beforehand.
ANY of your enemies disadvantages are advantages for you.
Nope, you just changed the condition. If you're doing it to be the sole supplier of wood, then it's a business/war strategy and a valid thing to do. Really mean and douchebaggy, but still valid.
I said EVERYONE has to walk for ten minutes, INCLUDING the person torching all the trees. He doesn't care about gameplay benefit, he just wants to watch everyone else suffer. For all you know, he may only have a single thing in his inventory, and no home base at all. That one thing being the flint and steel, of course. That's how griefers usually roll. The least amount of work to **** off as many people as possible. i.e. joining a server, getting ahold of one iron ingot and one piece of flint, then spending half an hour completely devastating the landscape before quitting again.
I've had this debate so many times. I'm starting to get annoyed. K guys, THAT is a tactic. Your enemy gets ak his resources from a forest. You burn down the forest. NOT GRIEFING. You want him to not build, so you take out his supplies.
SOME PEOPLE ARE REALY PARANOID. I mean, I think anything goes, Except Hacking. You are being an idiot and raiding someones house? THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE HOUSE IS AT FAULT. You should defend your property better.
Hacking is griefing. But I really don't want to debate this anymore. Goodbye.
To those who say it's not griefing if it is not hacking...
My chess board doesn't prevent me from moving the other players pieces so it is ok right?
I mean, he is free to just move my pieces too so since he can 'defend' against my 'attack' that makes it ok right?
Walking up to a chess game in progress and kicking their board is fine then right? Cause they can just kick my board if I play.
Point is, just because the game engine doesn't physically prevent you from doing something doesn't mean it should be allowed in the game.
Course, once again, this whole discussion is moot as there will be multiple servers, some free-for-all and some not. You wanna burn down the woods and then hide in a 1x1x2 hole while listening to people trying to fight the fire? I'm sure someone out there will have a server for you.
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Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
My god, we're never going to come across a real agreement, are we?
Look, if you're doing it to make the other person quit, then it's griefing. If you're just messing around with no real goal in mind, it's griefing.
The former is easier to detect. The latter is harder to detect (Sort of.)
You can tell when it becomes a ragequit when the two start spouting **** at each other, but the messing around part needs a bit of knowledge, private messaging by the OP perhaps.
Listen, as long as you AREN'T trying to make the other player ragequit, thus causing grief, or just messing **** up (The staple form of griefing in Creative) then it's all okay.
Whatever happens in Minecraft, STAYS in Minecraft.
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"It is always nice to have a sense of improbability in Littlebigplanet. FROGMORTON. Heh, you didn't expect that now did you?"
-Stephen Fry
I've had this debate so many times. I'm starting to get annoyed. K guys, THAT is a tactic. Your enemy gets ak his resources from a forest. You burn down the forest. NOT GRIEFING. You want him to not build, so you take out his supplies.
SOME PEOPLE ARE REALY PARANOID. I mean, I think anything goes, Except Hacking. You are being an idiot and raiding someones house? THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE HOUSE IS AT FAULT. You should defend your property better.
The ease with which a person can get such simple and cheap tools and cause so much devastation without having to worry about the consequences is the problem, regardless of their intentions.
Quote from The Real Marenkon »
THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE HOUSE IS AT FAULT. You should defend your property better.
You expect people to stand around their property 24/7 without being able to play the game? There aren't exactly a lot of tools to defend with, and all an attacker needs is a wooden pickaxe.
The variation of servers will allow for different leniencies on griefing.
There can be no griefing, in which you could be the biggest dickhead in the world and noone would care,
or you could have it where if you even touch someone else's blocks, you're permabanned,
and of course servers in between.
I don't care about griefing up until ragequitting level, but why are we still discussing this? It's pointless!
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"It is always nice to have a sense of improbability in Littlebigplanet. FROGMORTON. Heh, you didn't expect that now did you?"
-Stephen Fry
If someone tries to destroy your property, you are perfectly capable of knocking their block off.
The amount of damage they may cause may be a bigger loss to you than their life is to them. There are no real penalties for dying except losing your items. It's not a problem for them if they aren't carrying anything on them.
Non Grief - Rob someones house,steal from chests,Asking before raiding someones base (Some people work hard on their base and dont want their base destoryed without warning(Maybe you guys can make a treaty! Or set all war!),Fighting each other (only if they want to),You can kill people like if your payed to do it.
Grief - Burning down a whole forest just to do it,Burning down someones house just do to it(Some people work hard),Rob someones house then wreck it (They work HARD on it),Killing a player for no reason, Wait at spawn and kill people over and over,Kill someone then rob them then burn their house down while laughing
Summary - Dont RDM, Talk to each other before a raid with them because sometimes they dont want to fight, You can rob,No burning down their place or breaking it
Even if noone agrees with me this is whats happening on my server so yea
that's just weird.
Wreck someones house so they have to rebuild. Burn a forest to deprive other players of wood. Killing for no reason can be used to take materials.
That sounds like a benefit to me. Especially if I had already stocked on wood beforehand.
ANY of your enemies disadvantages are advantages for you.
Thats your problem for not hiding your stuff good enough.
Lighting trees on fire, as i said, can be used to deprive others of wood, an essential material in the game....
Edit:DANG YOU ABOVE NINJA
Honestly though, people seem to be way too paranoid about it. like everyone is going to greif all the time.
This isn't an argument, it can be used to justify anything. Minecraft is first and foremost a game about mining, surviving monsters, and building things, but the stakes make it so it is balanced more in the favor of killing and destroying. What is even the point of playing MP if you have to hide from everyone?
Destorying someones hard work for the reason of "Part of the game" or just doing it is GRIEFING. You just said a word so you can go by. Its like someone on a rts built his base around your main HQ then saying Im stupid or it was a accident i dont know where to place stuff. Thats just a word to get out of you griefing or just being a jerk.
One or two counts of sabotage and thievery isn't enough to go AUGH I HATE THIS GAM.
However, thousands of attempts at assassination and sabotage and just ruining ****, That's griefing.
It turns into griefing when it stops becoming for your survival, and starts to turn into making the other play ragequit.
And no, Ragequitting a player is NOT a tactic, it's griefing. However, frustrating them a bit is okay.
-Stephen Fry
My Pathfinder Campaign for the denizens of MCF: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1939035-where-are-we-sandbox-pathfinder-campaign-ooc/
I've had this debate so many times. I'm starting to get annoyed. K guys, THAT is a tactic. Your enemy gets ak his resources from a forest. You burn down the forest. NOT GRIEFING. You want him to not build, so you take out his supplies.
SOME PEOPLE ARE REALY PARANOID. I mean, I think anything goes, Except Hacking. You are being an idiot and raiding someones house? THE PERSON WHO OWNS THE HOUSE IS AT FAULT. You should defend your property better.
Hacking is griefing. But I really don't want to debate this anymore. Goodbye.
My chess board doesn't prevent me from moving the other players pieces so it is ok right?
I mean, he is free to just move my pieces too so since he can 'defend' against my 'attack' that makes it ok right?
Walking up to a chess game in progress and kicking their board is fine then right? Cause they can just kick my board if I play.
Point is, just because the game engine doesn't physically prevent you from doing something doesn't mean it should be allowed in the game.
Course, once again, this whole discussion is moot as there will be multiple servers, some free-for-all and some not. You wanna burn down the woods and then hide in a 1x1x2 hole while listening to people trying to fight the fire? I'm sure someone out there will have a server for you.
Look, if you're doing it to make the other person quit, then it's griefing. If you're just messing around with no real goal in mind, it's griefing.
The former is easier to detect. The latter is harder to detect (Sort of.)
You can tell when it becomes a ragequit when the two start spouting **** at each other, but the messing around part needs a bit of knowledge, private messaging by the OP perhaps.
Listen, as long as you AREN'T trying to make the other player ragequit, thus causing grief, or just messing **** up (The staple form of griefing in Creative) then it's all okay.
Whatever happens in Minecraft, STAYS in Minecraft.
-Stephen Fry
The ease with which a person can get such simple and cheap tools and cause so much devastation without having to worry about the consequences is the problem, regardless of their intentions.
You expect people to stand around their property 24/7 without being able to play the game? There aren't exactly a lot of tools to defend with, and all an attacker needs is a wooden pickaxe.
The variation of servers will allow for different leniencies on griefing.
There can be no griefing, in which you could be the biggest dickhead in the world and noone would care,
or you could have it where if you even touch someone else's blocks, you're permabanned,
and of course servers in between.
I don't care about griefing up until ragequitting level, but why are we still discussing this? It's pointless!
-Stephen Fry
The amount of damage they may cause may be a bigger loss to you than their life is to them. There are no real penalties for dying except losing your items. It's not a problem for them if they aren't carrying anything on them.
THE SHEEP ARE AFTER ME