Oh, another thing: The mods on WoM are horrible. I was on the spleef server, and before I even knew what happened, kick. When I tried to get back on, kicked every time then ban.
Oh, and they don't, from my experience, give many people writing capabilities. That said, a read-only level on Minecraft is needed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from vede »
Minecraft isn't about what you build, it's about building it.
I will no longer be posting here or appearing on #minecraft. Sorry guys, and I wish you all the best. I'll throw in a blog post tomorrow detailing my reasons, final thoughts, and a lot of good things to say about a lot of people here. You guys kept me going for a while, and I found the best community I could have ever hoped for in the early days. Thank you all, thank you Notch, and I'm sorry it had to end this way.
Edit - I'll do all this stuff tomorrow, I have far too much work to do now and I want to sleep tonight. Sorry again.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm back. Time to revamp this place now that there's no IRC for me.
-AlLnAtuRalX
Feel free to IM me. I'm here to help with whatever issues you may have, and would be glad to assist.
Oh, another thing: The mods on WoM are horrible. I was on the spleef server, and before I even knew what happened, kick. When I tried to get back on, kicked every time then ban.
Oh, and they don't, from my experience, give many people writing capabilities. That said, a read-only level on Minecraft is needed.
Just to clarify: We told you many times that we were in the middle of a tournament, and you refused to listen. We told you 10-15 times, and you didn't leave and kept rejoining.
Mainly for repeating the same old ****, and possibly saying it will go on nightly. All i have to say is good riddance, and that this has gone pretty far enough. His ip is banned from #minecraft and i hope it stays that way.
If he states otherwise, then oh well. Apparently many are rejoicing so i take this as a good thing.
Oh, another thing: The mods on WoM are horrible. I was on the spleef server, and before I even knew what happened, kick. When I tried to get back on, kicked every time then ban.
Oh, and they don't, from my experience, give many people writing capabilities. That said, a read-only level on Minecraft is needed.
Just to clarify: We told you many times that we were in the middle of a tournament, and you refused to listen. We told you 10-15 times, and you didn't leave and kept rejoining.
I couldn't see you writing that, you kicked me too fast. You aren't going to get this customer back, anyways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from vede »
Minecraft isn't about what you build, it's about building it.
Notch DID make that hack-block in survival mode already, so in a few weeks it should be merged into creative. Now stop arguing or I kill everyone here with a knife. And knife them. And knife them. AND KNIFE THEM.
EDIT: Oh wait, the survival hack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modder. The poster behind the pre-acquisition post #15000.
If you're trying to reach me, MCF posts/PMs are unlikely to reach me quickly. Try an e-mail instead!
As for the WoM community itself, I believe it has become intensely elitist, what with all the server ranks they have in place, and there's definitely an intimidating factor in place against vanilla servers, where the WoM servers are attracting much more traffic (Cal's Realm is currently the most active public Minecraft server)..
I'd like to talk about this part. Yeah we have a lot of ranks, but I don't see how that makes us elitist. We have a LOT of commands and powers and the ranks are there to make sure that only people we trust can get them. As you get higher up in ranks, you wield a LOT of power, power that you could use to completely wipe maps, viral ban people, etc.. Here are our current ranks.
NOTE: !!! - If you claimed you were banned, chances are you are WRONG. The ONLY time we ever use ban is when someone makes 4+ alt accounts to avoid a /spectate. Our /ban is insanely different than the vanilla ban or banip, it is impossible to undo. - !!!
Spectator - This is for people who grief and troll. We always use this, and hardly ever ban.
Guest - All new people join as this, they can build in the guest area. A register is required, and while it may be slightly annoying, it weeds out a LOT of griefers from good players. This area is where most of the grief occurs.
Member - Default. New players. Can build outside of the guest area.
Veteran - This is a rank made for our more dedicated players. If they've been playing with us for a good 2+ weeks, they're usually promoted to this.
Builder - Right here is the start of a promotion path. Members are promoted to this if they stay active and prove they're decent builders.
Designer - This is one of the 2 promotions for a builder. Designers get the powerful commands like /fill, /copy, /paste and /esolid. However, these powers can only be used in an assigned area (/assign). The best Designers can get promoted to Architect, more on that below.
Moderator - Moderator can be thought of as a test run. We give them the power to /spectate, /mute (60s) and /silence (permanent). Give them some responsibility and see how they handle it.
Operator - This rank was made in response to the big learning curve between Mod and Admin. We give them some of the admins powers like /undo. This eases the transition from having hardly any commands, to having a LOT of them.
Admin - Has most powers, can /ban when necessary.
Architect - Last rank of the builder path. Has all the powers of an admin, but has no obligations to do the duties of an admin. Their powers are for their buildings alone. However, we noticed a lot of our Architects do a lot of the admin work anyway.
Executive - Has most of the owner commands, basically senior admins.
Owner - These people run a WoM server, calcakes is an owner because he runs Cal's Realm.
---
So while it may come off as having too many ranks and possibly elitist, we have all these ranks for a reason. I'd like to stress one more time that we ONLY ban people who make 4+ accounts to grief or avoid a spectate. I see a lot of people claiming they were banned there.
I have also seen people claiming that an admin has deleted their buildings. If your building was in the guest area, then it was most likely removed. We clear that area when it gets full.
---
GeneralGuy, you were a good player and should come back on and play some more :smile.gif:. Unfortunately, our maps do fill up quite quickly and get replaced every 3-5 days.
The proliferation of hacks has caused me to stop playing MP Minecraft entirely. It's just not fun for me when everyone is flying around and walking through walls. I agree almost entirely with what allnaturalx said.
And allnaturalx was among the best members of the community. His offense was hardly ban-worthy. I've done far worse than he has, and the only kicks or bans I can remember were either jokes, or Evil-Ville harassing me.
I've completely lost respect for #minecraft, especially the ops. It's sad that it went from being so good to the crap that it is now.
The proliferation of hacks has caused me to stop playing MP Minecraft entirely. It's just not fun for me when everyone is flying around and walking through walls. I agree almost entirely with what allnaturalx said.
And allnaturalx was among the best members of the community. His offense was hardly ban-worthy. I've done far worse than he has, and the only kicks or bans I can remember were either jokes, or Evil-Ville harassing me.
I've completely lost respect for #minecraft, especially the ops. It's sad that it went from being so good to the crap that it is now.
Honestly vede, I want to write a letter today to the community detailing things like my banning, etc... I was thinking about chewing out LG, but instead of angry, I'll just be content to feel defeated. I'm not sure if the fight is worth continuing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm back. Time to revamp this place now that there's no IRC for me.
-AlLnAtuRalX
Feel free to IM me. I'm here to help with whatever issues you may have, and would be glad to assist.
Citricsquid; Regarding all those "amazing creations" you mentioned. Are you saying those would've been impossible to make without the use of hacks? Because I highly doubt it.
My singleplayer level Lab would be pretty much impossible to make without hacks.
Using hacks does not allow you to build stuff that would otherwise be impossible.
Although, it does make things a hell of a lot easier and faster. I am convinced that your Lab would've been possible to make without hacks, unless you have an explanation. I don't doubt for a second that it would've been very tedious and difficult though.
GeneralGuy, you were a good player and should come back on and play some more :smile.gif:. Unfortunately, our maps do fill up quite quickly and get replaced every 3-5 days.
I do visit sometimes, I just prefer fairly small communities. Heh, when the forums get too full I'll probably leave them too.
Citricsquid; Regarding all those "amazing creations" you mentioned. Are you saying those would've been impossible to make without the use of hacks? Because I highly doubt it.
My singleplayer level Lab would be pretty much impossible to make without hacks.
Using hacks does not allow you to build stuff that would otherwise be impossible.
Although, it does make things a hell of a lot easier and faster. I am convinced that your Lab would've been possible to make without hacks, unless you have an explanation. I don't doubt for a second that it would've been very tedious and difficult though.
It's possible but it isn't possible. It would have taken weeks to build and who is willing to put that energy in? Nobody. You cannot deny that hacks have enabled people to build better and bigger creations, whether or not this is a worthwhile trade off is your opinion, I personally think it is.
My singleplayer level Lab would be pretty much impossible to make without hacks.
Using hacks does not allow you to build stuff that would otherwise be impossible.
Although, it does make things a hell of a lot easier and faster. I am convinced that your Lab would've been possible to make without hacks, unless you have an explanation. I don't doubt for a second that it would've been very tedious and difficult though.
It's possible but it isn't possible. It would have taken weeks to build and who is willing to put that energy in? Nobody. You cannot deny that hacks have enabled people to build better and bigger creations, whether or not this is a worthwhile trade off is your opinion, I personally think it is.
I still feel like jumping and climbing are important aspects of this game. I've built alot of stuff this far and I can honestly say that I wouldn't gain the same sense of accomplishment if I had done so with the help of hacks. If you play this game simply because you want something big to brag about, I think you're playing it for the wrong reasons. But like you said; That's a matter of opinion.
I don't deny the fact that hacks have helped people to build bigger and "better" buildings. I, however, don't think it's worth it considering what hacks has done to this community and to the game itself.
I still feel like jumping and climbing are important aspects of this game. I've built alot of stuff this far and I can honestly say that I wouldn't gain the same sense of accomplishment if I had done so with the help of hacks. If you play this game simply because you want something big to brag about, I think you're playing it for the wrong reasons. But like you said; That's a matter of opinion.
Definitely, I feel exactly the same way. I've never used hacks when I've played Minecraft and I don't think I'd ever feel accomplished if I did. I do however see why people want to use them.
Quote from underd0g »
I don't deny the fact that hacks have helped people to build bigger and "better" buildings. I, however, don't think it's worth it considering what hacks has done to this community and to the game itself.
Yeah, it's a big problem I won't deny that, it just isn't as clear cut as BAN HACKS, BREAK HACKS, COMMUNITY LOVE. It's a trade-off, if you ban hacks you remove the majority of griefing but you also remove the "fun" a lot of players have and the quality of creations drops. It's also worth considering that even if hacks were permanently gone, problems would still arise, I mean it's not as if there wasn't griefing before hacks, they'll just find lots better ways to do it.
Although I'm pretty sure nobody gives any care for what I think I'll say it anyway, I was, I am and I always will be against the use of hacks. Though, that is a hypocritical statement, because I have used them myself from time to time, most notably to transfer OMEN maps to survival (before the existence of the tools). I've never distributed them however.
I dislike that WoM distributes them so openly, however it's a battle fought in vain. Almost everyone already has the hacks now so it would be unfair (and stupid) to try to shy away from openly distributing them now (That is unfair on the new members I mean). All we can do now, is sit back and wait for the big man to update the networking system, progress has been understandably slow recently, what with the time off and work. So the game has gone a bit stale from overplaying. However, I think this is a perfect opportunity for everyone to take a break, go find some new games or replay old ones (for me I've been playing some games from 1996-1999).
I'm sure if you give it reasonable amount of time, when you come back, the game will offer you something new and refreshing and we can all be happy once more. I know I went off on a tangent there, but I think people are a little edgy from boredom with the game in it's current state. It's just a guess.
I played Minecraft for a week or two before coming across the WoM client. I can honestly say that I would not have stuck with the game this long without them. I feel that for the creative mode, not having the ability to fly or move quickly or even wall clip are pointless limitations. All they do is put a tedious time-sink between my vision and my creation. Sometimes, when I want a meaningless time killer, I'll play without the WoM client. But when I want to build a 40-story Spiderman hanging from the wall, the ability to fly is literally the deciding factor between weather I do so or decide that it'd take too much time.
I visit other servers with the WoM client. If they ask specifically for "no hacks", I don't use any of the special keys. If not, I'll ask an admin. If there's no admin, I feel no guilt no-clipping out of the prison and flying around to check out a server. I get to see all the wonderful creations people have made, and appreciate them from optimal angles. I can also travel through the server without spending half an hour to find a hole that leads down to the underworld section (some of which are just as impressive, if not more so!).
All in all, the increased mobility that the WoM client provides has been nothing but a blessing to my play experience, and it hasn't hurt other players in the slightest.
So, why are so many people in this thread upset at WoM? WoM released a tool that's been extremely positive to me and all of my friends. Yes, some bad people use it to do bad things, but the client also helps your repair the damage just as much. If you have a griefing problem, you should blame the griefers. Perhaps you could set-up your servers to restrict who can and can't build? Bans are obviously one tool to help fight griefing.
The point is, if you're upset about griefing, be upset about the greifers, and devise ways to beat them. Attacking WoM and their client achieves absolutely nothing.
P.S. This open letter was ridiculous. The logic behind the argument was incredibly weak (for example using "talk to anyone, they'll tell you this" as "proof"), and the author's offer to take down his server was a pointless gesture.
Oh, and they don't, from my experience, give many people writing capabilities. That said, a read-only level on Minecraft is needed.
VICTORY'AN #2
Edit - I'll do all this stuff tomorrow, I have far too much work to do now and I want to sleep tonight. Sorry again.
-AlLnAtuRalX
Feel free to IM me. I'm here to help with whatever issues you may have, and would be glad to assist.
Just to clarify: We told you many times that we were in the middle of a tournament, and you refused to listen. We told you 10-15 times, and you didn't leave and kept rejoining.
I'm a pigman!
Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/MikeLouisseize
- Repeating old arguements
- Causing drama
Mainly for repeating the same old ****, and possibly saying it will go on nightly. All i have to say is good riddance, and that this has gone pretty far enough. His ip is banned from #minecraft and i hope it stays that way.
If he states otherwise, then oh well. Apparently many are rejoicing so i take this as a good thing.
Former #minecraft channel operator.
I couldn't see you writing that, you kicked me too fast. You aren't going to get this customer back, anyways.
VICTORY'AN #2
Anti-hack server wrappers
Quality of output = Skill * Effort
We need that or Notch to have Hack-block made.
EDIT: Oh wait, the survival hack.
Modder. The poster behind the pre-acquisition post #15000.
If you're trying to reach me, MCF posts/PMs are unlikely to reach me quickly. Try an e-mail instead!
I'd like to talk about this part. Yeah we have a lot of ranks, but I don't see how that makes us elitist. We have a LOT of commands and powers and the ranks are there to make sure that only people we trust can get them. As you get higher up in ranks, you wield a LOT of power, power that you could use to completely wipe maps, viral ban people, etc.. Here are our current ranks.
NOTE: !!! - If you claimed you were banned, chances are you are WRONG. The ONLY time we ever use ban is when someone makes 4+ alt accounts to avoid a /spectate. Our /ban is insanely different than the vanilla ban or banip, it is impossible to undo. - !!!
Spectator - This is for people who grief and troll. We always use this, and hardly ever ban.
Guest - All new people join as this, they can build in the guest area. A register is required, and while it may be slightly annoying, it weeds out a LOT of griefers from good players. This area is where most of the grief occurs.
Member - Default. New players. Can build outside of the guest area.
Veteran - This is a rank made for our more dedicated players. If they've been playing with us for a good 2+ weeks, they're usually promoted to this.
Builder - Right here is the start of a promotion path. Members are promoted to this if they stay active and prove they're decent builders.
Designer - This is one of the 2 promotions for a builder. Designers get the powerful commands like /fill, /copy, /paste and /esolid. However, these powers can only be used in an assigned area (/assign). The best Designers can get promoted to Architect, more on that below.
Moderator - Moderator can be thought of as a test run. We give them the power to /spectate, /mute (60s) and /silence (permanent). Give them some responsibility and see how they handle it.
Operator - This rank was made in response to the big learning curve between Mod and Admin. We give them some of the admins powers like /undo. This eases the transition from having hardly any commands, to having a LOT of them.
Admin - Has most powers, can /ban when necessary.
Architect - Last rank of the builder path. Has all the powers of an admin, but has no obligations to do the duties of an admin. Their powers are for their buildings alone. However, we noticed a lot of our Architects do a lot of the admin work anyway.
Executive - Has most of the owner commands, basically senior admins.
Owner - These people run a WoM server, calcakes is an owner because he runs Cal's Realm.
---
So while it may come off as having too many ranks and possibly elitist, we have all these ranks for a reason. I'd like to stress one more time that we ONLY ban people who make 4+ accounts to grief or avoid a spectate. I see a lot of people claiming they were banned there.
I have also seen people claiming that an admin has deleted their buildings. If your building was in the guest area, then it was most likely removed. We clear that area when it gets full.
---
GeneralGuy, you were a good player and should come back on and play some more :smile.gif:. Unfortunately, our maps do fill up quite quickly and get replaced every 3-5 days.
And allnaturalx was among the best members of the community. His offense was hardly ban-worthy. I've done far worse than he has, and the only kicks or bans I can remember were either jokes, or Evil-Ville harassing me.
I've completely lost respect for #minecraft, especially the ops. It's sad that it went from being so good to the crap that it is now.
Honestly vede, I want to write a letter today to the community detailing things like my banning, etc... I was thinking about chewing out LG, but instead of angry, I'll just be content to feel defeated. I'm not sure if the fight is worth continuing.
-AlLnAtuRalX
Feel free to IM me. I'm here to help with whatever issues you may have, and would be glad to assist.
Using hacks does not allow you to build stuff that would otherwise be impossible.
Although, it does make things a hell of a lot easier and faster. I am convinced that your Lab would've been possible to make without hacks, unless you have an explanation. I don't doubt for a second that it would've been very tedious and difficult though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsExmLc4_w
I do visit sometimes, I just prefer fairly small communities. Heh, when the forums get too full I'll probably leave them too.
It's possible but it isn't possible. It would have taken weeks to build and who is willing to put that energy in? Nobody. You cannot deny that hacks have enabled people to build better and bigger creations, whether or not this is a worthwhile trade off is your opinion, I personally think it is.
I still feel like jumping and climbing are important aspects of this game. I've built alot of stuff this far and I can honestly say that I wouldn't gain the same sense of accomplishment if I had done so with the help of hacks. If you play this game simply because you want something big to brag about, I think you're playing it for the wrong reasons. But like you said; That's a matter of opinion.
I don't deny the fact that hacks have helped people to build bigger and "better" buildings. I, however, don't think it's worth it considering what hacks has done to this community and to the game itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsExmLc4_w
Definitely, I feel exactly the same way. I've never used hacks when I've played Minecraft and I don't think I'd ever feel accomplished if I did. I do however see why people want to use them.
Yeah, it's a big problem I won't deny that, it just isn't as clear cut as BAN HACKS, BREAK HACKS, COMMUNITY LOVE. It's a trade-off, if you ban hacks you remove the majority of griefing but you also remove the "fun" a lot of players have and the quality of creations drops. It's also worth considering that even if hacks were permanently gone, problems would still arise, I mean it's not as if there wasn't griefing before hacks, they'll just find lots better ways to do it.
I dislike that WoM distributes them so openly, however it's a battle fought in vain. Almost everyone already has the hacks now so it would be unfair (and stupid) to try to shy away from openly distributing them now (That is unfair on the new members I mean). All we can do now, is sit back and wait for the big man to update the networking system, progress has been understandably slow recently, what with the time off and work. So the game has gone a bit stale from overplaying. However, I think this is a perfect opportunity for everyone to take a break, go find some new games or replay old ones (for me I've been playing some games from 1996-1999).
I'm sure if you give it reasonable amount of time, when you come back, the game will offer you something new and refreshing and we can all be happy once more. I know I went off on a tangent there, but I think people are a little edgy from boredom with the game in it's current state. It's just a guess.
Blasphemer!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMsExmLc4_w
I visit other servers with the WoM client. If they ask specifically for "no hacks", I don't use any of the special keys. If not, I'll ask an admin. If there's no admin, I feel no guilt no-clipping out of the prison and flying around to check out a server. I get to see all the wonderful creations people have made, and appreciate them from optimal angles. I can also travel through the server without spending half an hour to find a hole that leads down to the underworld section (some of which are just as impressive, if not more so!).
All in all, the increased mobility that the WoM client provides has been nothing but a blessing to my play experience, and it hasn't hurt other players in the slightest.
So, why are so many people in this thread upset at WoM? WoM released a tool that's been extremely positive to me and all of my friends. Yes, some bad people use it to do bad things, but the client also helps your repair the damage just as much. If you have a griefing problem, you should blame the griefers. Perhaps you could set-up your servers to restrict who can and can't build? Bans are obviously one tool to help fight griefing.
The point is, if you're upset about griefing, be upset about the greifers, and devise ways to beat them. Attacking WoM and their client achieves absolutely nothing.
P.S. This open letter was ridiculous. The logic behind the argument was incredibly weak (for example using "talk to anyone, they'll tell you this" as "proof"), and the author's offer to take down his server was a pointless gesture.