Its disgusting how all of you people keep trying to defend 4J studios for doing a disgustingly poor job. Mine Craft for PC and pocket edition are BLOWING THE CONSOLE VERSION OUT OF THE WATER!! they are 1 day away from the .12 update to PE being ready for a full release to all platforms. They had to do a hell of alot more work to add that HUGE LIST of NEW FEATURES to WAY MORE DEVICES THAN JUST A FEW STINKING CONSOLES!
They have to work with the Ipads, Iphones, android phones android tablets, (all of which vary WILDLY!) the kindle devices ! windows devices! So somehow they manage to add in THE ENTIRE NETHER, ENCHANTING SYSTEM , ALL THE POTIONS, ALL THE FISH, HUNGER SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE SYSTEM, AND ALOT MORE all in a WAY shorter time frame from the last update they did to PE. Which was only a few months ago not 8 9 MONTHS! In Short Both PC and Pocket edition are growing in awesomeness and phenomenal rates while the console editions is so far behind and so boring compared to the others growth rate that many (myself included have ditched this abysmal ship of dusty lies and left for the far greener lands of PC and PE.
Why should the console community keep making excuses for 4j studios? They dont give a dang about anything but making money off of things that the other communities ENJOY FOR FREE! such as there skin packs and texture packs. Why does 4J get to milk people for there money just because we want to play MC on our console and not something else? its just so very wrong . Mojang should have never gave this job to 4j studios they should have hired there own mojang staff (new members) to work on this very highly requested exstension of minecraft. So please Quit covering for 4js greedy ways. Start asking yourself why is it that mojang can produce and add more new content to both PC and PE editions in only a few months than 4J can COPY OLD WORK AND ADD TO CONSOLE IN OVER 9 months! (and still counting). No More LAME " they have to do it for several consoles crap " because the PE team has it WAY WAY HARDER THAN THEY EVER WILL. They Deal with WAY LESS POWERFUL devices and WAY more variations more OS's with WAY MORE BUGS QUIRKS AND Incompatibility to Overcome and they deliver WAY BETTER FASTER RESULTS. There is a petition on Change.org to remove 4j studios from minecraft. PLEASE GO SIGN IT.
After talking to some of the PE Devolopers like shogi and tomasso it opened my eyes to how much those guys overcome and accomplish every single day. And more importantly just how much 4J doesnt give a rats butt about keeping there promise to update minecraft and one day catch PC version. IT HAS GONE ON WAY TO LONG. LET MOJANG AND MICROSOFT HEAR ABOUT IT!!!
Oh, look, some whining about a game that they don't even play anymore.
I dunno, a lot of people like spending a buck on skins that are unique and uncreatable on the other versions.
Either way, cool story, let 4J do their thing, Mojang theirs, and the PE devs theirs. Ranting and raving about a game that is apparently trash won't make it better. Oh, and what petition? You typed all of that up, so the least you could do is link it so we all can go look and have a laugh.
There's quite a bit of misconceptions with Mojang and 4J Studios. I highly recommend you read similar forums like this to get a better understanding of what's going on in the community. Always carry out extensive research on topics like these (know exactly what your working with). The way this post is worded is also quite confusing (explain to me what the "big Idea" is). I'd like to see a bit more effort going into this!
For one thing, working with Minecraft on the console edition is extremely difficult. The hardware installed in these machines have massive coding limitations, as there meant to run certain games (such as COD, GTA). Most consoles have 512 mega of RAM, being a mere eighth of what is needed to run MC on the PC. Considering the facts, I think 4J did an excellent job. 4J studios as we know it is intertwined with Microsoft, creating good relations with Mojang.
Pocket edition uses software that is constantly being innovated (through Ipads, Iphones, tablets). Devices such as these again have better hardware capabilities. Most applications are ran using programs like Java, C++ (correct me if i'm wrong), similar to what Minecraft is using on the PC. Rather, the xbox and most other consoles are unable to update in a such a major way like hand-hold devices can. If this wasn't the case then, even so Microsoft would have to come out with a new console version every other week! Calm down AfterShock, 4J is not to blame.
-I hope you come to terms with the console. For now, stick with the PC.
Meh. Go play on PE then. I'll still be enjoying the console edition. BTW, I like dinosaurs too. You hit me as one of those people who are perpetually dissatisfied with anything to do with any of the consoles... i.e. one of those who was unhappy from the outset that Minecraft was ever released on a console at all. If Mojang had listened to all those naysayers back then, we would never have had releases of Minecraft on any device except the PC.
I personally don't think things would be very much different even if the development changed hands. Mojang and Microsoft have always been in a better position than I to truly and accurately assess 4J's performance, so I'm sure they are completely aware of whatever it really is (good or bad)... i.e. no need for me to presume to inform them. They are also in a better position to assess what their contractual obligations are to 4J and the possible consequences of breaking their contract with them at this point in time. The bottom line is that even if people want the change, the contract may make it very difficult for Mojang/Microsoft to "fire" 4J. I think I'll just leave the matter in their capable hands and continue to enjoy playing my game regardless of who's developing it and for whatever device they're developing it on. Life's too short to get all worked up over things like how many updates someone else is getting or how fast someone else is getting them. If my happiness with this product somehow disgusts you... well, that's your problem, not mine.
PS: To the best of my knowledge, 4J have NEVER promised to "catch PC version." It has always been understood that the Mojang would continue to develop their original ideas on the PC releasing them whenever they wanted to. This makes it impossible for any edition to catch the PC edition since that would require Mojang holding back updates on the PC until after they released the code to the developers of the other devices and those developers first translated it so that all the new stuff could be released on all devices simulataneously. Therefore, rather than speeding up release on the consoles (and other devices), this would merely slow down the release on the PC. 4J can't break a promise they never made.
You know many of you are bashing the OP, but in a nutty kinda way he speaks the truth. I'm not saying that 4J isn't doing a good job, the problem is mostly with their community relations, or lack of. If they released from time to time tweets of how things are progressing, whats coming, ect, rather then leaving us in the dark they might not have so much negativity towards them. Its just a thought.
You know many of you are bashing the OP, but in a nutty kinda way he speaks the truth. I'm not saying that 4J isn't doing a good job, the problem is mostly with their community relations, or lack of. If they released from time to time tweets of how things are progressing, whats coming, ect, rather then leaving us in the dark they might not have so much negativity towards them. Its just a thought.
I third it, actually. I like games where the devs interact with the community, which is why I ditched one mobile game for another similar to it--one had no dev interaction while the other had plenty.
Also, I'm stuck in a quote. Send help.
You know many of you are bashing the OP, but in a nutty kinda way he speaks the truth. I'm not saying that 4J isn't doing a good job, the problem is mostly with their community relations, or lack of. If they released from time to time tweets of how things are progressing, whats coming, ect, rather then leaving us in the dark they might not have so much negativity towaArds them. Its just a thought.
I do believe their customer relations could be improved upon. Certainly, not having a phone number or other means of direct contact for help & support is a drawback. I don't think constant tweeting helps anything and I actually prefer not to be spammed with constant tweets over every little thing. I'd rather they spend most of their time programming instead of tweeting.
There's quite a bit of misconceptions with Mojang and 4J Studios. I highly recommend you read similar forums like this to get a better understanding of what's going on in the community. Always carry out extensive research on topics like these (know exactly what your working with). The way this post is worded is also quite confusing (explain to me what the "big Idea" is). I'd like to see a bit more effort going into this!
For one thing, working with Minecraft on the console edition is extremely difficult. The hardware installed in these machines have massive coding limitations, as there meant to run certain games (such as COD, GTA). Most consoles have 512 mega of RAM, being a mere eighth of what is needed to run MC on the PC. Considering the facts, I think 4J did an excellent job. 4J studios as we know it is intertwined with Microsoft, creating good relations with Mojang.
Pocket edition uses software that is constantly being innovated (through Ipads, Iphones, tablets). Devices such as these again have better hardware capabilities. Most applications are ran using programs like Java, C++ (correct me if i'm wrong), similar to what Minecraft is using on the PC. Rather, the xbox and most other consoles are unable to update in a such a major way like hand-hold devices can. If this wasn't the case then, even so Microsoft would have to come out with a new console version every other week! Calm down AfterShock, 4J is not to blame.
-I hope you come to terms with the console. For now, stick with the PC.
Couple things.
Firstly, the 4GB memory thing (512MB * 8 = 4096MB, or 4GB) is only a recommendation for modded games. Vanilla can run with 256MB if you limit what you do, 1GB is at most what it needs to run smoothly, however yes 512MB overall RAM is not enough for the game to keep up with the PC edition. To put it into perspective, the entire system has 512MB of GDDR3 RAM, which is shared by the CPU and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit, basically the microprocessor responsible for the computation of graphics) via a unified memory bus (meaning data the game stores for general logic, say AI or number crunching, and the data the game stores and uses for graphics are stored together in the same RAM stick). Additionally it has 10MB of eDRAM dedicated to the GPU, essentially this is a small amount of memory which is stored with the GPU itself on the GPU die / chip that the GPU can access very quickly for small calculations, such as MSAA / anti-aliasing operations, z-buffering (z-buffering is a technique used by computers to work out what order things go in, see the spoiler below for more information) and transparency blending.
Now we'll focus on that 512 megabytes of GDDR3 RAM, as the 10MB eDRAM isn't related to the matter at hand. On that 512 megabytes, the console is having to juggle not only the game you're playing, but also the OS and all other background applications running. Windows uses about 1GB of RAM just for the OS alone, while the X360 OS probably isn't as intensive, I wouldn't be surprised if around 100 or so megabytes is used by the OS at any given time. For the sake of argument, we'll cut out 128MB of memory for the OS and background apps. That leaves 384MB of RAM for the game to use. Vanilla Minecraft on the PC tends to idle at around 200-300 MB for me, so already it's cutting it close. Now that's just memory used by the CPU, there's likely quite a bit of memory in use by the GPU, so it may have capped that 512MB of RAM. Boom, 512MB of RAM is now useless because the game and OS both max it out. So how would 4J reduce the chance of this happening? Cut content and optimise code. And that takes time. Lots of time considering the console edition is likely in C++, while the PC edition is in Java.
Okay, secondly, and more of a clarification, the PC edition is in Java, the console edition in C++ (likely, not 100% sure).
Thirdly, specifically about updates, you have to remember that on the PC and the majority of mobile devices the process of updating software is fairly open, just release an update and the user can download and install it. On consoles however, the update has to go through MS / Sony first, then has to be scheduled for a specific date, and there's a heap of business in between all that.
So, let me present a common problem. You're a GPU, you have been given two opaque triangles to render, the first originates at (0, 0, 0) and the second at (0, 1, 0), and the camera is positioned to perfectly face in the positive X axis. Now a GPU has no clue about surrounding geometry, it's given a vertex or a corner by the CPU and it just calculates all the pixels between each pair of vertices, and thus the entire face that 3 or more vertices form, so it doesn't know the triangle at (0, 0, 0) is in front of (0, 1, 0). So to recap, you've been given a triangle to render at (0, 0, 0), you render it, then you're given another triangle at (0, 1, 0). How do you render this out? How would you be able to successfully render the triangles so they don't overlap and cause problems (known as "z fighting")?
The way computers do it is through something called the z-buffer, which is essentially an ordered list of geometry ranged from closest to farthest from the camera. When a computer calculates a pixel, it stores it's coordinates on-screen to the z-buffer, then uses that last entry to determine whether the current pixel is behind or in front of another, and thus can determine whether or not the current pixel has to be rendered. If the position of the current pixel is closer to the camera than the last position, the current pixel is determined to be of higher priority so-to-speak so it is overwritten with the current pixel data, erasing the previous pixel data (effectively removing that pixel of the previous shape). However, if it's farther, it's determined to be of a lower priority (or in actuality farther from the camera) and is skipped to avoid overlaps occurring.
You know many of you are bashing the OP, but in a nutty kinda way he speaks the truth. I'm not saying that 4J isn't doing a good job, the problem is mostly with their community relations, or lack of. If they released from time to time tweets of how things are progressing, whats coming, ect, rather then leaving us in the dark they might not have so much negativity towards them. Its just a thought.
While I agree, last-generation consoles are lacking in terms of power and ease-of-development for games. It's not possible to move everything in the PC edition to the console edition within a couple clicks, both editions are written in entirely different languages that fundamentally work completely differently (see above). PE edition is also falling behind, the PC edition is the main game, all other editions (except arguably the Win10 edition for different reasons) are just secondary projects meant to widen the user base. Sounds harsh and sad, but it's the truth, especially on now outdated consoles.
I'm quite sure that a tweet a week or every few days simply stating that 'they are betaing some feature', or simply 'While work progresses slowly we are pushing towards the next update', or simply teasers like a picture here and there, with no release date in site yet, ect. Jeb is pretty active on twitter, and I for one would like progress updates, even if they simply state the release date is no where in site but we are hard at work on such and such.
To me 4J seems to only go active on twitter when they are just a week or so away from a release, where they could have been showing features a month just to keep us informed and 'not guessing', or listening to someone whom is a friend of a cousin twice removed of someone whom works at 4J whom said blah. I think most would rather have a guess at whats being done rather then not knowing, and many would understand that release dates can't be said as they could change at a moments notice, but throwing a bone from time to time wouldn't hurt the company at all, and do a world of good towards thier community relations.
Firstly, the 4GB memory thing (512MB * 8 = 4096MB, or 4GB) is only a recommendation for modded games. Vanilla can run with 256MB if you limit what you do, 1GB is at most what it needs to run smoothly, however yes 512MB overall RAM is not enough for the game to keep up with the PC edition. To put it into perspective, the entire system has 512MB of GDDR3 RAM, which is shared by the CPU and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit, basically the microprocessor responsible for the computation of graphics) via a unified memory bus (meaning data the game stores for general logic, say AI or number crunching, and the data the game stores and uses for graphics are stored together in the same RAM stick). Additionally it has 10MB of eDRAM dedicated to the GPU, essentially this is a small amount of memory which is stored with the GPU itself on the GPU die / chip that the GPU can access very quickly for small calculations, such as MSAA / anti-aliasing operations, z-buffering (z-buffering is a technique used by computers to work out what order things go in, see the spoiler below for more information) and transparency blending.
Now we'll focus on that 512 megabytes of GDDR3 RAM, as the 10MB eDRAM isn't related to the matter at hand. On that 512 megabytes, the console is having to juggle not only the game you're playing, but also the OS and all other background applications running. Windows uses about 1GB of RAM just for the OS alone, while the X360 OS probably isn't as intensive, I wouldn't be surprised if around 100 or so megabytes is used by the OS at any given time. For the sake of argument, we'll cut out 128MB of memory for the OS and background apps. That leaves 384MB of RAM for the game to use. Vanilla Minecraft on the PC tends to idle at around 200-300 MB for me, so already it's cutting it close. Now that's just memory used by the CPU, there's likely quite a bit of memory in use by the GPU, so it may have capped that 512MB of RAM. Boom, 512MB of RAM is now useless because the game and OS both max it out. So how would 4J reduce the chance of this happening? Cut content and optimise code. And that takes time. Lots of time considering the console edition is likely in C++, while the PC edition is in Java.
Okay, secondly, and more of a clarification, the PC edition is in Java, the console edition in C++ (likely, not 100% sure).
Thirdly, specifically about updates, you have to remember that on the PC and the majority of mobile devices the process of updating software is fairly open, just release an update and the user can download and install it. On consoles however, the update has to go through MS / Sony first, then has to be scheduled for a specific date, and there's a heap of business in between all that.
So, let me present a common problem. You're a GPU, you have been given two opaque triangles to render, the first originates at (0, 0, 0) and the second at (0, 1, 0), and the camera is positioned to perfectly face in the positive X axis. Now a GPU has no clue about surrounding geometry, it's given a vertex or a corner by the CPU and it just calculates all the pixels between each pair of vertices, and thus the entire face that 3 or more vertices form, so it doesn't know the triangle at (0, 0, 0) is in front of (0, 1, 0). So to recap, you've been given a triangle to render at (0, 0, 0), you render it, then you're given another triangle at (0, 1, 0). How do you render this out? How would you be able to successfully render the triangles so they don't overlap and cause problems (known as "z fighting")?
The way computers do it is through something called the z-buffer, which is essentially an ordered list of geometry ranged from closest to farthest from the camera. When a computer calculates a pixel, it stores it's coordinates on-screen to the z-buffer, then uses that last entry to determine whether the current pixel is behind or in front of another, and thus can determine whether or not the current pixel has to be rendered. If the position of the current pixel is closer to the camera than the last position, the current pixel is determined to be of higher priority so-to-speak so it is overwritten with the current pixel data, erasing the previous pixel data (effectively removing that pixel of the previous shape). However, if it's farther, it's determined to be of a lower priority (or in actuality farther from the camera) and is skipped to avoid overlaps occurring.
While I agree, last-generation consoles are lacking in terms of power and ease-of-development for games. It's not possible to move everything in the PC edition to the console edition within a couple clicks, both editions are written in entirely different languages that fundamentally work completely differently (see above). PE edition is also falling behind, the PC edition is the main game, all other editions (except arguably the Win10 edition for different reasons) are just secondary projects meant to widen the user base. Sounds harsh and sad, but it's the truth, especially on now outdated consoles.
Mojang clearly states on their support website that the game requires at least 2 GB of RAM with 4 GB RAM recommended:
Nothing is mentioned about this being only a recommendation for modded games. If it is just for modded games, their website is very misleading.
Requirements tend to be blown up quite a bit. I can tell you from experience the game runs fine with just 1GB allocated (without mods of course). And it's a recommendation by the community to allocate 4GB, not Mojang, so of course it won't be mentioned anywhere.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
I'm quite sure that a tweet a week or every few days simply stating that 'they are betaing some feature', or simply 'While work progresses slowly we are pushing towards the next update', or simply teasers like a picture here and there, with no release date in site yet, ect. Jeb is pretty active on twitter, and I for one would like progress updates, even if they simply state the release date is no where in site but we are hard at work on such and such.
To me 4J seems to only go active on twitter when they are just a week or so away from a release, where they could have been showing features a month just to keep us informed and 'not guessing', or listening to someone whom is a friend of a cousin twice removed of someone whom works at 4J whom said blah. I think most would rather have a guess at whats being done rather then not knowing, and many would understand that release dates can't be said as they could change at a moments notice, but throwing a bone from time to time wouldn't hurt the company at all, and do a world of good towards thier community relations.
The reason we tweet out so close to release is because that is when the update is finalised.
We could tweet every week but it would just be a case of "We are still working on Update/Bugfix"
There have been occasions internally where we have brought forward features and pulled them at a very late point due to complicated issues.
It's safe to say though we are constantly working on something for the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Twitter - @4JSteve
Currently Playing - League of Legends (EUW), Tales of Vesperia (PS4) and Kingdom Hearts 2 (PS4)
Feel free to add me on Steam, PSN and XboxLive, Make sure and leave a message saying you are from the forums
Requirements tend to be blown up quite a bit. I can tell you from experience the game runs fine with just 1GB allocated (without mods of course). And it's a recommendation by the community to allocate 4GB, not Mojang, so of course it won't be mentioned anywhere.
On the Mojang Support Website (link provided previously), it also doesn't say anything about the recommendation stemming from the community. It all implies that this is what Mojang is requiring (2 GB) and recommending (4 GB). Not sure what motivation they would have for blowing these way out of proportion, since it may essentially deter people with smaller systems from purchasing the game.
On the Mojang Support Website (link provided previously), it also doesn't say anything about the recommendation stemming from the community. It all implies that this is what Mojang is requiring (2 GB) and recommending (4 GB). Not sure what motivation they would have for blowing these way out of proportion, since it may essentially deter people with smaller systems from purchasing the game.
You do realise frame rate is determined not only by RAM but a number of other factors, right? Video settings, GPU, CPU, programs open in the background, etc. Limiting the game to less than 1GB of RAM will not cause it to choke that much, I and other forum members can attest to that claim by providing proof (I've personally ran the game with only 1GB allocated, even lower in some cases, and someone else with only ~512MB allocated IIRC, performance was playable at 30 FPS). The support website would not say anything in relation to the modding recommendation, but go around to any heavy packs and you'll see the recommended amount of RAM to allocate is 4GB because of the large amount of memory used by heavily modded games, that and memory usage rises as the world continues to evolve and expand. Besides, tell me why the game would require 2GB of RAM minimum if it rarely peaks 1GB vanilla? I've only ever seen vanilla hit 300-400MB usage, that's it. And no, that extra amount of RAM will not help performance.
Requirements I notice tend to be inflated for not just Minecraft but a ton of other games. And not just requirements overall, GTA5 was required to have a quad-core CPU, works fine on dual-core CPUs. Minecraft requires 2GB of RAM supposedly, I've had vanilla running fine at 30+ FPS with 1GB allocated and less. Requirements tend to be inflated according to my personal experience and observations.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
You do realise frame rate is determined not only by RAM but a number of other factors, right? Video settings, GPU, CPU, programs open in the background, etc. Limiting the game to less than 1GB of RAM will not cause it to choke that much, I and other forum members can attest to that claim by providing proof (I've personally ran the game with only 1GB allocated, even lower in some cases, and someone else with only ~512MB allocated IIRC, performance was playable at 30 FPS). The support website would not say anything in relation to the modding recommendation, but go around to any heavy packs and you'll see the recommended amount of RAM to allocate is 4GB because of the large amount of memory used by heavily modded games, that and memory usage rises as the world continues to evolve and expand. Besides, tell me why the game would require 2GB of RAM minimum if it rarely peaks 1GB vanilla? I've only ever seen vanilla hit 300-400MB usage, that's it. And no, that extra amount of RAM will not help performance.
Requirements I notice tend to be inflated for not just Minecraft but a ton of other games. And not just requirements overall, GTA5 was required to have a quad-core CPU, works fine on dual-core CPUs. Minecraft requires 2GB of RAM supposedly, I've had vanilla running fine at 30+ FPS with 1GB allocated and less. Requirements tend to be inflated according to my personal experience and observations.
Yes, I do realize that other factors are involved. I'm saying the website does not reflect what you're saying and, therefore, is possibly misleading... causing people with smaller systems to avoid buying the game. Why not add your results to the Wiki page?
Regardless, the option of changing any of the factors you cite does not exist on the Xbox. The game either runs on the system or it doesn't... and it's solely in the developer's hands to make it run as well as possible. Over the years and with each added update, that task has gotten more difficult for them. At some point they will essentially hit a wall and just not be able to squeeze this game onto this limited system (i.e. specifically, the Xbox 360). Hopefully, we will get a clear warning and/or option of not updating at that point so we all don't wind up only with a game that is unplayable on our systems. I'd rather stay a lower update level and continue to be able to play it on the Xbox 360 (even if the developer no longer supports the game or the system).
(BTW, I still occasionally play games on an SNES. I do enjoy going back to the oldies now and then and would like to keep the Xbox 360 Edition of Minecraft on that list of games I could go back to for years if I want.)
Yes, I do realize that other factors are involved. I'm saying the website does not reflect what you're saying and, therefore, is possibly misleading... causing people with smaller systems to avoid buying the game. Why not add your results to the Wiki page?
I might just do that considering I just did the test myself. Here's the proof. Exact same conditions, only difference is the memory allocation, in ascending order from 512MB, 1GB, 2GB and 4GB. CPU is an Intel Core i5 4210U @ 2.7Ghz, dual core. GPU is an NVIDIA GeForce GT 840M. 8GB total RAM.
The framerate was quite similar for all 4 tests, except things did change a little as more memory was added. The FPS took a dive for my system to 13 FPS at the lowest while the world was loading, but hovered anywhere between 70 and 150 FPS in all other times when the world was loaded. From what I could see as I added more memory it did shift slightly down, 1GB was between 90 and 150 FPS, 2GB 90 and 130, 4GB 70 and 130. The actual memory usage always rose to about 400-500MB then the garbage collector kicked in and cleared it resetting it to 0MB again, then the cycle repeated.
From my testing, memory usage does affect performance slightly but the change is negligible considering I got a framerate above 60 in all occasions, and I usually play capped at 60 FPS. The game functions perfectly fine with 512MB allocated, the exact same as 4GB allocated. There's no difference because the game isn't actually using any more RAM, it would help to allocate more if the world had more things going on in it, such as a bank of furnaces smelting a heap of ore or something similar.
Its disgusting how all of you people keep trying to defend 4J studios for doing a disgustingly poor job. Mine Craft for PC and pocket edition are BLOWING THE CONSOLE VERSION OUT OF THE WATER!! they are 1 day away from the .12 update to PE being ready for a full release to all platforms. They had to do a hell of alot more work to add that HUGE LIST of NEW FEATURES to WAY MORE DEVICES THAN JUST A FEW STINKING CONSOLES!
They have to work with the Ipads, Iphones, android phones android tablets, (all of which vary WILDLY!) the kindle devices ! windows devices! So somehow they manage to add in THE ENTIRE NETHER, ENCHANTING SYSTEM , ALL THE POTIONS, ALL THE FISH, HUNGER SYSTEM, EXPERIENCE SYSTEM, AND ALOT MORE all in a WAY shorter time frame from the last update they did to PE. Which was only a few months ago not 8 9 MONTHS! In Short Both PC and Pocket edition are growing in awesomeness and phenomenal rates while the console editions is so far behind and so boring compared to the others growth rate that many (myself included have ditched this abysmal ship of dusty lies and left for the far greener lands of PC and PE.
Why should the console community keep making excuses for 4j studios? They dont give a dang about anything but making money off of things that the other communities ENJOY FOR FREE! such as there skin packs and texture packs. Why does 4J get to milk people for there money just because we want to play MC on our console and not something else? its just so very wrong . Mojang should have never gave this job to 4j studios they should have hired there own mojang staff (new members) to work on this very highly requested exstension of minecraft. So please Quit covering for 4js greedy ways. Start asking yourself why is it that mojang can produce and add more new content to both PC and PE editions in only a few months than 4J can COPY OLD WORK AND ADD TO CONSOLE IN OVER 9 months! (and still counting). No More LAME " they have to do it for several consoles crap " because the PE team has it WAY WAY HARDER THAN THEY EVER WILL. They Deal with WAY LESS POWERFUL devices and WAY more variations more OS's with WAY MORE BUGS QUIRKS AND Incompatibility to Overcome and they deliver WAY BETTER FASTER RESULTS. There is a petition on Change.org to remove 4j studios from minecraft. PLEASE GO SIGN IT.
After talking to some of the PE Devolopers like shogi and tomasso it opened my eyes to how much those guys overcome and accomplish every single day. And more importantly just how much 4J doesnt give a rats butt about keeping there promise to update minecraft and one day catch PC version. IT HAS GONE ON WAY TO LONG. LET MOJANG AND MICROSOFT HEAR ABOUT IT!!!
Oh, look, some whining about a game that they don't even play anymore.
I dunno, a lot of people like spending a buck on skins that are unique and uncreatable on the other versions.
Either way, cool story, let 4J do their thing, Mojang theirs, and the PE devs theirs. Ranting and raving about a game that is apparently trash won't make it better. Oh, and what petition? You typed all of that up, so the least you could do is link it so we all can go look and have a laugh.
(Also, there != their.)
Stay fluffy~
There's quite a bit of misconceptions with Mojang and 4J Studios. I highly recommend you read similar forums like this to get a better understanding of what's going on in the community. Always carry out extensive research on topics like these (know exactly what your working with). The way this post is worded is also quite confusing (explain to me what the "big Idea" is). I'd like to see a bit more effort going into this!
For one thing, working with Minecraft on the console edition is extremely difficult. The hardware installed in these machines have massive coding limitations, as there meant to run certain games (such as COD, GTA). Most consoles have 512 mega of RAM, being a mere eighth of what is needed to run MC on the PC. Considering the facts, I think 4J did an excellent job. 4J studios as we know it is intertwined with Microsoft, creating good relations with Mojang.
Pocket edition uses software that is constantly being innovated (through Ipads, Iphones, tablets). Devices such as these again have better hardware capabilities. Most applications are ran using programs like Java, C++ (correct me if i'm wrong), similar to what Minecraft is using on the PC. Rather, the xbox and most other consoles are unable to update in a such a major way like hand-hold devices can. If this wasn't the case then, even so Microsoft would have to come out with a new console version every other week! Calm down AfterShock, 4J is not to blame.
-I hope you come to terms with the console. For now, stick with the PC.
----Strong Words----
-Bloody. Seemingly I'm the person who's typing, while your the first to post what I'm about to explain!!
(Remember me from other threads)
----Strong Words----
Meh. Go play on PE then. I'll still be enjoying the console edition. BTW, I like dinosaurs too. You hit me as one of those people who are perpetually dissatisfied with anything to do with any of the consoles... i.e. one of those who was unhappy from the outset that Minecraft was ever released on a console at all. If Mojang had listened to all those naysayers back then, we would never have had releases of Minecraft on any device except the PC.
I personally don't think things would be very much different even if the development changed hands. Mojang and Microsoft have always been in a better position than I to truly and accurately assess 4J's performance, so I'm sure they are completely aware of whatever it really is (good or bad)... i.e. no need for me to presume to inform them. They are also in a better position to assess what their contractual obligations are to 4J and the possible consequences of breaking their contract with them at this point in time. The bottom line is that even if people want the change, the contract may make it very difficult for Mojang/Microsoft to "fire" 4J. I think I'll just leave the matter in their capable hands and continue to enjoy playing my game regardless of who's developing it and for whatever device they're developing it on. Life's too short to get all worked up over things like how many updates someone else is getting or how fast someone else is getting them. If my happiness with this product somehow disgusts you... well, that's your problem, not mine.
PS: To the best of my knowledge, 4J have NEVER promised to "catch PC version." It has always been understood that the Mojang would continue to develop their original ideas on the PC releasing them whenever they wanted to. This makes it impossible for any edition to catch the PC edition since that would require Mojang holding back updates on the PC until after they released the code to the developers of the other devices and those developers first translated it so that all the new stuff could be released on all devices simulataneously. Therefore, rather than speeding up release on the consoles (and other devices), this would merely slow down the release on the PC. 4J can't break a promise they never made.
You know many of you are bashing the OP, but in a nutty kinda way he speaks the truth. I'm not saying that 4J isn't doing a good job, the problem is mostly with their community relations, or lack of. If they released from time to time tweets of how things are progressing, whats coming, ect, rather then leaving us in the dark they might not have so much negativity towards them. Its just a thought.
I second this.
Stay fluffy~
I forth it.
I do believe their customer relations could be improved upon. Certainly, not having a phone number or other means of direct contact for help & support is a drawback. I don't think constant tweeting helps anything and I actually prefer not to be spammed with constant tweets over every little thing. I'd rather they spend most of their time programming instead of tweeting.
I would be lying if I said I didn't wish the updates came out more frequently,
but since I also have other hobbies (and stupid adult things) to occupy my time it doesn't really bother me.
Couple things.
Firstly, the 4GB memory thing (512MB * 8 = 4096MB, or 4GB) is only a recommendation for modded games. Vanilla can run with 256MB if you limit what you do, 1GB is at most what it needs to run smoothly, however yes 512MB overall RAM is not enough for the game to keep up with the PC edition. To put it into perspective, the entire system has 512MB of GDDR3 RAM, which is shared by the CPU and GPU (Graphics Processing Unit, basically the microprocessor responsible for the computation of graphics) via a unified memory bus (meaning data the game stores for general logic, say AI or number crunching, and the data the game stores and uses for graphics are stored together in the same RAM stick). Additionally it has 10MB of eDRAM dedicated to the GPU, essentially this is a small amount of memory which is stored with the GPU itself on the GPU die / chip that the GPU can access very quickly for small calculations, such as MSAA / anti-aliasing operations, z-buffering (z-buffering is a technique used by computers to work out what order things go in, see the spoiler below for more information) and transparency blending.
Now we'll focus on that 512 megabytes of GDDR3 RAM, as the 10MB eDRAM isn't related to the matter at hand. On that 512 megabytes, the console is having to juggle not only the game you're playing, but also the OS and all other background applications running. Windows uses about 1GB of RAM just for the OS alone, while the X360 OS probably isn't as intensive, I wouldn't be surprised if around 100 or so megabytes is used by the OS at any given time. For the sake of argument, we'll cut out 128MB of memory for the OS and background apps. That leaves 384MB of RAM for the game to use. Vanilla Minecraft on the PC tends to idle at around 200-300 MB for me, so already it's cutting it close. Now that's just memory used by the CPU, there's likely quite a bit of memory in use by the GPU, so it may have capped that 512MB of RAM. Boom, 512MB of RAM is now useless because the game and OS both max it out. So how would 4J reduce the chance of this happening? Cut content and optimise code. And that takes time. Lots of time considering the console edition is likely in C++, while the PC edition is in Java.
Okay, secondly, and more of a clarification, the PC edition is in Java, the console edition in C++ (likely, not 100% sure).
Thirdly, specifically about updates, you have to remember that on the PC and the majority of mobile devices the process of updating software is fairly open, just release an update and the user can download and install it. On consoles however, the update has to go through MS / Sony first, then has to be scheduled for a specific date, and there's a heap of business in between all that.
So, let me present a common problem. You're a GPU, you have been given two opaque triangles to render, the first originates at (0, 0, 0) and the second at (0, 1, 0), and the camera is positioned to perfectly face in the positive X axis. Now a GPU has no clue about surrounding geometry, it's given a vertex or a corner by the CPU and it just calculates all the pixels between each pair of vertices, and thus the entire face that 3 or more vertices form, so it doesn't know the triangle at (0, 0, 0) is in front of (0, 1, 0). So to recap, you've been given a triangle to render at (0, 0, 0), you render it, then you're given another triangle at (0, 1, 0). How do you render this out? How would you be able to successfully render the triangles so they don't overlap and cause problems (known as "z fighting")?
The way computers do it is through something called the z-buffer, which is essentially an ordered list of geometry ranged from closest to farthest from the camera. When a computer calculates a pixel, it stores it's coordinates on-screen to the z-buffer, then uses that last entry to determine whether the current pixel is behind or in front of another, and thus can determine whether or not the current pixel has to be rendered. If the position of the current pixel is closer to the camera than the last position, the current pixel is determined to be of higher priority so-to-speak so it is overwritten with the current pixel data, erasing the previous pixel data (effectively removing that pixel of the previous shape). However, if it's farther, it's determined to be of a lower priority (or in actuality farther from the camera) and is skipped to avoid overlaps occurring.
While I agree, last-generation consoles are lacking in terms of power and ease-of-development for games. It's not possible to move everything in the PC edition to the console edition within a couple clicks, both editions are written in entirely different languages that fundamentally work completely differently (see above). PE edition is also falling behind, the PC edition is the main game, all other editions (except arguably the Win10 edition for different reasons) are just secondary projects meant to widen the user base. Sounds harsh and sad, but it's the truth, especially on now outdated consoles.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
I'm quite sure that a tweet a week or every few days simply stating that 'they are betaing some feature', or simply 'While work progresses slowly we are pushing towards the next update', or simply teasers like a picture here and there, with no release date in site yet, ect. Jeb is pretty active on twitter, and I for one would like progress updates, even if they simply state the release date is no where in site but we are hard at work on such and such.
To me 4J seems to only go active on twitter when they are just a week or so away from a release, where they could have been showing features a month just to keep us informed and 'not guessing', or listening to someone whom is a friend of a cousin twice removed of someone whom works at 4J whom said blah. I think most would rather have a guess at whats being done rather then not knowing, and many would understand that release dates can't be said as they could change at a moments notice, but throwing a bone from time to time wouldn't hurt the company at all, and do a world of good towards thier community relations.
Mojang clearly states on their support website that the game requires at least 2 GB of RAM with 4 GB RAM recommended:
https://help.mojang.com/customer/portal/articles/325948-minecraft-system-requirements
Nothing is mentioned about this being only a recommendation for modded games. If it is just for modded games, their website is very misleading.
Requirements tend to be blown up quite a bit. I can tell you from experience the game runs fine with just 1GB allocated (without mods of course). And it's a recommendation by the community to allocate 4GB, not Mojang, so of course it won't be mentioned anywhere.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
The reason we tweet out so close to release is because that is when the update is finalised.
We could tweet every week but it would just be a case of "We are still working on Update/Bugfix"
There have been occasions internally where we have brought forward features and pulled them at a very late point due to complicated issues.
It's safe to say though we are constantly working on something for the game.
Twitter - @4JSteve
Currently Playing - League of Legends (EUW), Tales of Vesperia (PS4) and Kingdom Hearts 2 (PS4)
Feel free to add me on Steam, PSN and XboxLive, Make sure and leave a message saying you are from the forums
On the Mojang Support Website (link provided previously), it also doesn't say anything about the recommendation stemming from the community. It all implies that this is what Mojang is requiring (2 GB) and recommending (4 GB). Not sure what motivation they would have for blowing these way out of proportion, since it may essentially deter people with smaller systems from purchasing the game.
On the linked Hardware Performance Wiki page (http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Hardware_performance), the smallest system reported running Minecraft 1.8 is 1.75 GB... and the FPS reported is 5-7.
You do realise frame rate is determined not only by RAM but a number of other factors, right? Video settings, GPU, CPU, programs open in the background, etc. Limiting the game to less than 1GB of RAM will not cause it to choke that much, I and other forum members can attest to that claim by providing proof (I've personally ran the game with only 1GB allocated, even lower in some cases, and someone else with only ~512MB allocated IIRC, performance was playable at 30 FPS). The support website would not say anything in relation to the modding recommendation, but go around to any heavy packs and you'll see the recommended amount of RAM to allocate is 4GB because of the large amount of memory used by heavily modded games, that and memory usage rises as the world continues to evolve and expand. Besides, tell me why the game would require 2GB of RAM minimum if it rarely peaks 1GB vanilla? I've only ever seen vanilla hit 300-400MB usage, that's it. And no, that extra amount of RAM will not help performance.
Requirements I notice tend to be inflated for not just Minecraft but a ton of other games. And not just requirements overall, GTA5 was required to have a quad-core CPU, works fine on dual-core CPUs. Minecraft requires 2GB of RAM supposedly, I've had vanilla running fine at 30+ FPS with 1GB allocated and less. Requirements tend to be inflated according to my personal experience and observations.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!
Yes, I do realize that other factors are involved. I'm saying the website does not reflect what you're saying and, therefore, is possibly misleading... causing people with smaller systems to avoid buying the game. Why not add your results to the Wiki page?
Regardless, the option of changing any of the factors you cite does not exist on the Xbox. The game either runs on the system or it doesn't... and it's solely in the developer's hands to make it run as well as possible. Over the years and with each added update, that task has gotten more difficult for them. At some point they will essentially hit a wall and just not be able to squeeze this game onto this limited system (i.e. specifically, the Xbox 360). Hopefully, we will get a clear warning and/or option of not updating at that point so we all don't wind up only with a game that is unplayable on our systems. I'd rather stay a lower update level and continue to be able to play it on the Xbox 360 (even if the developer no longer supports the game or the system).
(BTW, I still occasionally play games on an SNES. I do enjoy going back to the oldies now and then and would like to keep the Xbox 360 Edition of Minecraft on that list of games I could go back to for years if I want.)
I might just do that considering I just did the test myself. Here's the proof. Exact same conditions, only difference is the memory allocation, in ascending order from 512MB, 1GB, 2GB and 4GB. CPU is an Intel Core i5 4210U @ 2.7Ghz, dual core. GPU is an NVIDIA GeForce GT 840M. 8GB total RAM.
The framerate was quite similar for all 4 tests, except things did change a little as more memory was added. The FPS took a dive for my system to 13 FPS at the lowest while the world was loading, but hovered anywhere between 70 and 150 FPS in all other times when the world was loaded. From what I could see as I added more memory it did shift slightly down, 1GB was between 90 and 150 FPS, 2GB 90 and 130, 4GB 70 and 130. The actual memory usage always rose to about 400-500MB then the garbage collector kicked in and cleared it resetting it to 0MB again, then the cycle repeated.
From my testing, memory usage does affect performance slightly but the change is negligible considering I got a framerate above 60 in all occasions, and I usually play capped at 60 FPS. The game functions perfectly fine with 512MB allocated, the exact same as 4GB allocated. There's no difference because the game isn't actually using any more RAM, it would help to allocate more if the world had more things going on in it, such as a bank of furnaces smelting a heap of ore or something similar.
Author of the Clarity, Serenity, Sapphire & Halcyon shader packs for Minecraft: Java Edition.
My Github page.
The entire Minecraft shader development community now has its own Discord server! Feel free to join and chat with all the developers!