Boy, did I get jumped on when I said "I'll wait for 4J themselves to say something (about infinite worlds coming to nextgen consoles) before I'll believe it". Like if Owen Hill said it, it just had to be true, right?
However, 4J didn't say just how much a "lot bigger" is- just "not 'infinite'". Also, apparently, they aren't changing the way the consoles save files. Ram isn't the problem. Unlike the PC, apparently the consoles still needs to 'remember' everywhere you've visited, so the further out you go, the bigger the (HD) save file gets, and that's your limiting factor. (With the 360 it was ram, as some didn't have a HD).
I do agree with ThankOurTroops- there's that vocal 1% who will never be happy unless 'infinite' happens.
I can' see all the "When are we gonna get infinite worlds?" posts now.
Both problems have been soldved on the Xbox One so there is no reason for them not to have at least significantly larger worlds.
All Xbox Ones come with 500GB HDDs and the console has about 5 GB of its 8GB Ram for use for games. That's more than enough to have very large worlds. Especially with support for external HDDs coming soon which everyone is pretty sure will have an upward limit of at least 1 TB for external HDDs.
I for one just want much, much larger worlds. After the novelty of the game wore off after the first month or two, and as more of my friends got the game, that tiny little 864 x 864 block space started to get very cramped, started to lack important resources, and the landscape began filling up with large buildings.
I could care less if they do or don't do the insanely massive PC world sizes. I just want something in the ballpark of a playable area of about 5000 x 5000. That'd be perfectly fine for me and my friends.
Honestly, the whole world size argument is pretty good but I'm really focusing on memory usage. That is going to frame entity capability within the game. Hitting my 862x862 world cap is not as big a deal as only being able to have 2 cows in my pen because there are "too many" other entities running around.
Oh, and I would be that fool that would run around and make my world save file huge, if they had gone the chunk loading/unloading route.
I enjoy a good nomadic game every now and then.
it was not at all to be offensive let me mind you. Just a silly smiley people use it all the time. I really do not understand why you were offended, but if I did I am sorry...
I hope the Xbox One version can at least have the large herds of animals like the PC version because on 360 it takes forever to find enough. I wonder how many more things can exist in the next-gen version at the same time?
I neeeeeeeed infinite worlds! I need the freedom to move wherever I want, mine liberally, and move on. In a finite world, resource exhaustion is inevitable and once that happens, I'm deleting that world. All that hard work gone to waste.
Minecraft would be nothing if it wasn't for Infdev. I remember the only reason I bought this game was because my friend told me the worlds were "3 times the size of earth." I'm sure that millions of people would not have bought Minecraft if it didn't have infinite worlds.
I neeeeeeeed infinite worlds! I need the freedom to move wherever I want, mine liberally, and move on. In a finite world, resource exhaustion is inevitable and once that happens, I'm deleting that world. All that hard work gone to waste.
Minecraft would be nothing if it wasn't for Infdev. I remember the only reason I bought this game was because my friend told me the worlds were "3 times the size of earth." I'm sure that millions of people would not have bought Minecraft if it didn't have infinite worlds.
Well, there is a rather big hole in your argument... since more than 10 million people have bought the Xbox 360 version despite it not having infinite worlds. I also find it a little disturbing that you believe you "need" more virtual space to yourself to play a "survival" game than three times the real space available to the more than 7 billion people surviving IRL on planet Earth.
And I'm sure if MC never had infinite worlds to begin with it would still have sold millions. Besides, it's all in your head. You'll never see 98% of an 'infinite' world.
If you need infinite worlds, play the PC or the mobil (after 9.0) versions. I think it safe to say that the consoles will never have infinite worlds (at least not without a major rewrite first, and there's really no need to).
If you need infinite worlds, play the PC or the mobil (after 9.0) versions. I think it safe to say that the consoles will never have infinite worlds (at least not without a major rewrite first, and there's really no need to).
I don't think the lack of truly infinite worlds is due to code structure, but rather save file size restrictions set by Microsoft and Sony. I think this likely comes down to cloud saves and their concern about save files getting too large to save reliably in the cloud. It's understandable and I think 4J made a good compromise when they settled on 5000x5000 (ish). While that's still small enough to fully explore in a few hours or so, its big enough that space really shouldn't be an issue unless you and 10 friends are hammering the seed 24/7 for months.
I'd venture to say that for the majority of players, 5000x5000 is virtually infinite.
You know, I'm one of those that really enjoy the idea of an infinite world. I like the idea while I may not see most of the minecraft world that's possible to generate, I have to freedom to explore as much as I choose. No restrictions. I like to explore. I'm not afraid of losing my base. It's happened, and I learned from the experience. The reason is really simple, I like the idea of a gigantic virtual world out there. Bigger than I need it to be, and bigger than I'm honestly able to explore. The possiblities are there, I'm not restricted except by my own goals or whatever.
With that said, I'm generally ok with the map size on 360. It's adequate, and I honestly don't feel I'm going to run out of resources. I'd be ok with a larger map too.. maybe double or slightly more would be just fine for 360 play. I think it would be a better fit.
I've enjoyed the 360 version and continue to enjoy it. I've never felt I've had to complain about it. Yeah, I don't like building too close to the edge of the map. So I don't.
My only gripe honestly is that the current map size makes choosing a good seed more important than it should, but that's not terrible. I don't NEED an infinite map on 360. I've adapted and seriously enjoy this version of minecraft for what it is.. I do want larger worlds, but it's not terrible right now. This discussion while interesting.. Seems a little fruitless. Personally I'd be ok with not having infinite worlds on 360.. Bigger I'd like.
When I feel like I need more, I just go play PC. Sucks I can't play split screen with my kid there tho..
I know it's about file size, but the consoles save the world different than the PC does, and that's why I said that it would need a 'rewrite'.
As I understand it, the consoles save all of the world you've been to, regardless if you modify it or not. (The more you explore, the bigger the file size gets). The PC on the other hand, doesn't. To be honest, I'm not sure how the PC file save system works- it may save only the modified blocks (or chunks) and redraw the unmodified areas from the seed as you go. Whatever. What I do know is the world-saving part of the PC is more 'efficient'. So until (unless) the console's program is rewritten, we're stuck with file size (and therefore world size) restrictions on the One and also ram restrictions on the 360.
For the 'explorers' out there- the consoles aren't for you, now or in the future.
For the 'rest of us'- we'll be fine, don't worry about us.
You know, I'm one of those that really enjoy the idea of an infinite world. I like the idea while I may not see most of the minecraft world that's possible to generate, I have to freedom to explore as much as I choose. No restrictions. I like to explore. I'm not afraid of losing my base. It's happened, and I learned from the experience. The reason is really simple, I like the idea of a gigantic virtual world out there. Bigger than I need it to be, and bigger than I'm honestly able to explore. The possiblities are there, I'm not restricted except by my own goals or whatever.
With that said, I'm generally ok with the map size on 360. It's adequate, and I honestly don't feel I'm going to run out of resources. I'd be ok with a larger map too.. maybe double or slightly more would be just fine for 360 play. I think it would be a better fit.
I've enjoyed the 360 version and continue to enjoy it. I've never felt I've had to complain about it. Yeah, I don't like building too close to the edge of the map. So I don't.
My only gripe honestly is that the current map size makes choosing a good seed more important than it should, but that's not terrible. I don't NEED an infinite map on 360. I've adapted and seriously enjoy this version of minecraft for what it is.. I do want larger worlds, but it's not terrible right now. This discussion while interesting.. Seems a little fruitless. Personally I'd be ok with not having infinite worlds on 360.. Bigger I'd like.
When I feel like I need more, I just go play PC. Sucks I can't play split screen with my kid there tho..
Restrictions are a fact of life. I'm really tired of the "infinite" amount of criticism that's been heaped on 4J from a group of people who just claim they don't want to feel restricted when it is clear that 4J itself has been just trying to live within the real life restrictions imposed on them by the console hardware and/or the console's system administrators (Microsoft).
I know it's about file size, but the consoles save the world different than the PC does, and that's why I said that it would need a 'rewrite'.
As I understand it, the consoles save all of the world you've been to, regardless if you modify it or not. (The more you explore, the bigger the file size gets). The PC on the other hand, doesn't. To be honest, I'm not sure how the PC file save system works- it may save only the modified blocks (or chunks) and redraw the unmodified areas from the seed as you go. Whatever. What I do know is the world-saving part of the PC is more 'efficient'. So until (unless) the console's program is rewritten, we're stuck with file size (and therefore world size) restrictions on the One and also ram restrictions on the 360.
For the 'explorers' out there- the consoles aren't for you, now or in the future.
For the 'rest of us'- we'll be fine, don't worry about us.
I believe both PC and console Minecraft saves in the Anvil file format, no? Assuming 4J isn't using a modified version of Anvil, then save files should generally be the same across the two versions. I'm fairly sure chunk loading is done differently but save files... I'm not so sure. Hopefully there's someone here with more knowledge on the subject. It's quite possible, as you mentioned, that explored but unmodified parts of the world are indeed saved to disk and therefore increase file size.
I found minecraft on the xbox live marketplace, it was cheap so figured what the heck; give it a try. Instantly fell in love and played the hell out of it.
Then one day, don't remember exactly what it was, I caught word that minecraft was also available for the PC. After some googleing' decided to give it a try (after all I really enjoyed the time spent for the xbox edition.)
The huge PC worlds are great. Adds a whole other "dimension" to the game play. Exploration and finding that perfect spot to build becomes a big part of the early game in my worlds. Sometimes it takes my brother and I up to a month of real life time before we settle down and begin to map out and build in a permanent spot.
In conclusion to my mini-rant, although I got my start in minecraft with xbox'es very capable version of it. The PC just blew me away. I would consider minecraft on a console again, (xbox one?) if it has more of the features that I've come to love on the PC. After all it is much more comfortable playing with a controller verses mouse and keyboard.
Restrictions are a fact of life. I'm really tired of the "infinite" amount of criticism that's been heaped on 4J from a group of people who just claim they don't want to feel restricted when it is clear that 4J itself has been just trying to live within the real life restrictions imposed on them by the console hardware and/or the console's system administrators (Microsoft).
On an aged system like 360 I honestly think we're fortunate to have Minecraft do as well as it does right now. As players we're lucky to have continuous updates also.
In end, personally I enjoy Minecraft on 360 as it is, and while I am disappointed about a VERY small handful of things I think 4J has done very well. I take a more practical a point of view. I'd like the world be slightly larger, but I do realize it's unlikely to change. Oh well. Honestly complaining that we don't have infinite worlds is kinda fruitless by now. I'm not going to start yet another thread about world size.
And yeah, I'm a explorer but I'm a builder just as equally. 360 is for me and I enjoy it for what it can offer. I'm not really concerned too much about it's limitations when I'm playing. If I want more, I just go to my PC world. If I want to build or play splitscreen I can do that just fine on 360.
The huge PC worlds are great. Adds a whole other "dimension" to the game play. Exploration and finding that perfect spot to build becomes a big part of the early game in my worlds. Sometimes it takes my brother and I up to a month of real life time before we settle down and begin to map out and build in a permanent spot.
I haven't played minecraft on pc, but I appreciate what you're saying. When I start a world on 360, I put a 6-high stack of sand with a torch to mark my spawn point, and just head for the nearest corner to see what's there. I think the first exploration of the map is my favorite part of the game, but that's partly tied to wondering about what I'll find and where I'll build my base and stuff.
I would like playing the pc version like you do, just scoping the area for a while before you settle down. I'd try to pick a spot somewhere near all the various biomes, to really experience the whole range of mc terrains.
BTW, how does the pc handle strongholds? Is there only one per seed? Finding it in 360 is easy, since the world is so small, but it could be tough on the pc, at least without using endereyes.
I haven't played minecraft on pc, but I appreciate what you're saying. When I start a world on 360, I put a 6-high stack of sand with a torch to mark my spawn point, and just head for the nearest corner to see what's there. I think the first exploration of the map is my favorite part of the game, but that's partly tied to wondering about what I'll find and where I'll build my base and stuff.
I would like playing the pc version like you do, just scoping the area for a while before you settle down. I'd try to pick a spot somewhere near all the various biomes, to really experience the whole range of mc terrains.
BTW, how does the pc handle strongholds? Is there only one per seed? Finding it in 360 is easy, since the world is so small, but it could be tough on the pc, at least without using endereyes.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe 3 strongholds generate in a triangle around your original spawn point of a map. So, if like me and you travel far away to build, one day you will have to travel all the way back to get to the end. Nether portals come in handy for adventures such as this.
As for finding the strongholds, ender eyes or an "app" for your pc can help.(Some may consider using an app cheating...) It's do-able though as I have found strongholds on 2 or 3 different worlds by just using ender eyes.
I hope the Xbox One version can at least have the large herds of animals like the PC version because on 360 it takes forever to find enough. I wonder how many more things can exist in the next-gen version at the same time?
Well, just looking at the systems specs pretty much tells you how much more they'll be able to do with the game on the Xbox One and PS4.
They're going from having 512MB of RAM, which is laughable in comparison to most modern PCs, and bumping up the usable RAM to around 4GB on both the PS4 and Xbox One. That's is an incredible large expansion upon what was previously available. $GB is actually the recommended amount of RAM for Minecraft on the PC.
Hopefully 4J will know how to utilize it to the fullest and allow large groups of entities to roam the Minecraft plains.
Can someone clarify this for me; 4J said theyre looking at 36x the size of 360 and ps3, does that mean its going to be 864•36, which equals ~31,000 blocks? I'm getting something wrong here, I can feel it... Brain fade.
Can someone clarify this for me; 4J said theyre looking at 36x the size of 360 and ps3, does that mean its going to be 864•36, which equals ~31,000 blocks? I'm getting something wrong here, I can feel it... Brain fade.
No, it most likely means 36 times the total area. Current total area is 746,946 sq. blocks... times 36 = 26,873,856. If the world stays square, then each side would be equal to the square root of 26,873,856... which is 5,184 blocks on each side.
It could be even less IF they mean 36 times to total volume... but only if a height increase is involved as well.
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All Xbox Ones come with 500GB HDDs and the console has about 5 GB of its 8GB Ram for use for games. That's more than enough to have very large worlds. Especially with support for external HDDs coming soon which everyone is pretty sure will have an upward limit of at least 1 TB for external HDDs.
I for one just want much, much larger worlds. After the novelty of the game wore off after the first month or two, and as more of my friends got the game, that tiny little 864 x 864 block space started to get very cramped, started to lack important resources, and the landscape began filling up with large buildings.
I could care less if they do or don't do the insanely massive PC world sizes. I just want something in the ballpark of a playable area of about 5000 x 5000. That'd be perfectly fine for me and my friends.
Oh, and I would be that fool that would run around and make my world save file huge, if they had gone the chunk loading/unloading route.
I enjoy a good nomadic game every now and then.
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Curse PremiumMinecraft would be nothing if it wasn't for Infdev. I remember the only reason I bought this game was because my friend told me the worlds were "3 times the size of earth." I'm sure that millions of people would not have bought Minecraft if it didn't have infinite worlds.
Well, there is a rather big hole in your argument... since more than 10 million people have bought the Xbox 360 version despite it not having infinite worlds. I also find it a little disturbing that you believe you "need" more virtual space to yourself to play a "survival" game than three times the real space available to the more than 7 billion people surviving IRL on planet Earth.
If you need infinite worlds, play the PC or the mobil (after 9.0) versions. I think it safe to say that the consoles will never have infinite worlds (at least not without a major rewrite first, and there's really no need to).
I don't think the lack of truly infinite worlds is due to code structure, but rather save file size restrictions set by Microsoft and Sony. I think this likely comes down to cloud saves and their concern about save files getting too large to save reliably in the cloud. It's understandable and I think 4J made a good compromise when they settled on 5000x5000 (ish). While that's still small enough to fully explore in a few hours or so, its big enough that space really shouldn't be an issue unless you and 10 friends are hammering the seed 24/7 for months.
I'd venture to say that for the majority of players, 5000x5000 is virtually infinite.
You know, I'm one of those that really enjoy the idea of an infinite world. I like the idea while I may not see most of the minecraft world that's possible to generate, I have to freedom to explore as much as I choose. No restrictions. I like to explore. I'm not afraid of losing my base. It's happened, and I learned from the experience. The reason is really simple, I like the idea of a gigantic virtual world out there. Bigger than I need it to be, and bigger than I'm honestly able to explore. The possiblities are there, I'm not restricted except by my own goals or whatever.
With that said, I'm generally ok with the map size on 360. It's adequate, and I honestly don't feel I'm going to run out of resources. I'd be ok with a larger map too.. maybe double or slightly more would be just fine for 360 play. I think it would be a better fit.
I've enjoyed the 360 version and continue to enjoy it. I've never felt I've had to complain about it. Yeah, I don't like building too close to the edge of the map. So I don't.
My only gripe honestly is that the current map size makes choosing a good seed more important than it should, but that's not terrible. I don't NEED an infinite map on 360. I've adapted and seriously enjoy this version of minecraft for what it is.. I do want larger worlds, but it's not terrible right now. This discussion while interesting.. Seems a little fruitless. Personally I'd be ok with not having infinite worlds on 360.. Bigger I'd like.
When I feel like I need more, I just go play PC. Sucks I can't play split screen with my kid there tho..
As I understand it, the consoles save all of the world you've been to, regardless if you modify it or not. (The more you explore, the bigger the file size gets). The PC on the other hand, doesn't. To be honest, I'm not sure how the PC file save system works- it may save only the modified blocks (or chunks) and redraw the unmodified areas from the seed as you go. Whatever. What I do know is the world-saving part of the PC is more 'efficient'. So until (unless) the console's program is rewritten, we're stuck with file size (and therefore world size) restrictions on the One and also ram restrictions on the 360.
For the 'explorers' out there- the consoles aren't for you, now or in the future.
For the 'rest of us'- we'll be fine, don't worry about us.
Restrictions are a fact of life. I'm really tired of the "infinite" amount of criticism that's been heaped on 4J from a group of people who just claim they don't want to feel restricted when it is clear that 4J itself has been just trying to live within the real life restrictions imposed on them by the console hardware and/or the console's system administrators (Microsoft).
I believe both PC and console Minecraft saves in the Anvil file format, no? Assuming 4J isn't using a modified version of Anvil, then save files should generally be the same across the two versions. I'm fairly sure chunk loading is done differently but save files... I'm not so sure. Hopefully there's someone here with more knowledge on the subject. It's quite possible, as you mentioned, that explored but unmodified parts of the world are indeed saved to disk and therefore increase file size.
Then one day, don't remember exactly what it was, I caught word that minecraft was also available for the PC. After some googleing' decided to give it a try (after all I really enjoyed the time spent for the xbox edition.)
The huge PC worlds are great. Adds a whole other "dimension" to the game play. Exploration and finding that perfect spot to build becomes a big part of the early game in my worlds. Sometimes it takes my brother and I up to a month of real life time before we settle down and begin to map out and build in a permanent spot.
In conclusion to my mini-rant, although I got my start in minecraft with xbox'es very capable version of it. The PC just blew me away. I would consider minecraft on a console again, (xbox one?) if it has more of the features that I've come to love on the PC. After all it is much more comfortable playing with a controller verses mouse and keyboard.
On an aged system like 360 I honestly think we're fortunate to have Minecraft do as well as it does right now. As players we're lucky to have continuous updates also.
In end, personally I enjoy Minecraft on 360 as it is, and while I am disappointed about a VERY small handful of things I think 4J has done very well. I take a more practical a point of view. I'd like the world be slightly larger, but I do realize it's unlikely to change. Oh well. Honestly complaining that we don't have infinite worlds is kinda fruitless by now. I'm not going to start yet another thread about world size.
And yeah, I'm a explorer but I'm a builder just as equally. 360 is for me and I enjoy it for what it can offer. I'm not really concerned too much about it's limitations when I'm playing. If I want more, I just go to my PC world. If I want to build or play splitscreen I can do that just fine on 360.
I haven't played minecraft on pc, but I appreciate what you're saying. When I start a world on 360, I put a 6-high stack of sand with a torch to mark my spawn point, and just head for the nearest corner to see what's there. I think the first exploration of the map is my favorite part of the game, but that's partly tied to wondering about what I'll find and where I'll build my base and stuff.
I would like playing the pc version like you do, just scoping the area for a while before you settle down. I'd try to pick a spot somewhere near all the various biomes, to really experience the whole range of mc terrains.
BTW, how does the pc handle strongholds? Is there only one per seed? Finding it in 360 is easy, since the world is so small, but it could be tough on the pc, at least without using endereyes.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe 3 strongholds generate in a triangle around your original spawn point of a map. So, if like me and you travel far away to build, one day you will have to travel all the way back to get to the end. Nether portals come in handy for adventures such as this.
As for finding the strongholds, ender eyes or an "app" for your pc can help.(Some may consider using an app cheating...) It's do-able though as I have found strongholds on 2 or 3 different worlds by just using ender eyes.
They're going from having 512MB of RAM, which is laughable in comparison to most modern PCs, and bumping up the usable RAM to around 4GB on both the PS4 and Xbox One. That's is an incredible large expansion upon what was previously available. $GB is actually the recommended amount of RAM for Minecraft on the PC.
Hopefully 4J will know how to utilize it to the fullest and allow large groups of entities to roam the Minecraft plains.
No, it most likely means 36 times the total area. Current total area is 746,946 sq. blocks... times 36 = 26,873,856. If the world stays square, then each side would be equal to the square root of 26,873,856... which is 5,184 blocks on each side.
It could be even less IF they mean 36 times to total volume... but only if a height increase is involved as well.