Does anybody know when the spawn height was moved from Y=128 to Y=256 (with that little bug that prevented spawning above Y=240 for a while) on the PC? 4J tweeted it at some point that the spawn height was changed from 128 to higher but I don't know when on the PC. Just trying to figure out when we can expect it for Xbox. Thanks.
I've been searching forever.....
Does anybody know when the spawn height was moved from Y=128 to Y=256 (with that little bug that prevented spawning above Y=240 for a while) on the PC? 4J tweeted it at some point that the spawn height was changed from 128 to higher but I don't know when on the PC. Just trying to figure out when we can expect it for Xbox. Thanks.
I couldn't find it either, so it was before 1.0. Doesn't matter when- no one knows when, or even if, the change is coming. (Heck, 128 is way up there, so why is it a big deal of it's above 128 or not???)
I don't understand your post anyway- in one sentence you say 4J(?) tweeted a height change, but the next you ask when the (4J's) change is coming to the xbox?
PS: Welcome to the forum Bob. Different first post....
Yeah, somebody asked 4J on their twitter why mobs wouldn't spawn above 128 and they said that it was the same on the PC and that it changed in a later update, hinting that they were going to change it later too.
The build height excited me so much because I was looking forward to a sky trap but...... yeah, 128 is the spawn limit for hostile mobs. I've tested villagers above that and they actually do spawn. Weird.
And thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I've been using the forums for about a year now and I just barely joined!!!
I just answered my own question. The mob spawn height changed when the build height changed in 1.2 so now I'm stuck with what 4J tweeted. I have no idea what they're talking about.
I believe mobs will be able to spawn above 128 in either the next update or 1.4 PC equivalent for sure. However I hope you understand that building grinders above 128 will actually not be very efficient and will actually be considerably slower then if you built it in the first chunk column.
In theory one could built it near the 200 range so that ground is out of render range but because the 360 does not unload used chunks this probably will have no bearing and still will not be as efficient as those built below 128. When I say not as efficient I mean even mob grinders that are built > 128 with little caves and ground lit up will outperform those that are built above 128. It all has to do with chunk columns,
More or less we know that a chunk is 16x16x16, and if we take a bunch of chunks in the world that are on top/below of each other (same x,z). This is known as a chunk column. This works for all the world, except when y > 128, in which case when we go above 128 we actually at a another chunk column to the x,z location. When we raise the LC this high it causes something in the mob spawn algorithm to really slow down where mobs will spawn.
I'm sure you've watched a lot of PC mob grinder videos as we all have, and you'll notice that those who have any decent knowledge of the game will attempt to keep their LC below 128. Unfortunately we have know way of knowing our LC without doing some work, basically the LC is the highest block in the chunk.
Anyhow I strongly suggest that you save yourself some grief and NOT build grinders above 128, even in the future when mobs will be able to spawn above 128.
Oh I almost forgot, the main reason why mobs won't spawn above 128 right now is because of the neither, as the ceiling for it is still 128, and its supposedly there to prevent spawns above 128, however when this was mentioned it kind of made me shake my head as the floor for the neither above 128 is comprised of bedrock which mobs can't spawn on, and thus this made no since to me. I've done a bit of testing in the neither and its my opinion that the neither has not been converted to the new anvil format that allows us to build above 128.
I thought that chunks were 16 x 16 x 256; ran the height of the map?
But yes, we don't have a debug screen so no knowing what the lc, entity count, or any other cool thing the PC shows. Plus I guess I really don't fully understand how the Xbox version handles chunks anyway. The mob grinder I have now does work great when I go up near 250ish and come back down after a few minutes. I think it's at y=100? Think I'll try the sky trap and test out spawn rate after the update.
By the way Cire, good to hear from you. I've been watching your posts the past few months. You give great advise. It's a real pleasure, man.
MOB spawning does not happen above Y=128, however, you certainly can build up to Y=255, and if you have fly mode enabled, you can fly as high as Y=511.
MOB spawning does not happen above Y=128, however, you certainly can build up to Y=255, and if you have fly mode enabled, you can fly as high as Y=511.
Yeah that was my point. On PC, mobs were able to spawn up to y=240 (due to a bug I think) right after 1.2 was released. Then came a bug fix that enabled mob spawning up to 254 foot position. I guess we'll see what happens this update.
BTW, GregNelson you too man. I've been reading your posts and it's great to finally be able to contribute with you guys.
I thought that chunks were 16 x 16 x 256; ran the height of the map?
But yes, we don't have a debug screen so no knowing what the lc, entity count, or any other cool thing the PC shows. Plus I guess I really don't fully understand how the Xbox version handles chunks anyway. The mob grinder I have now does work great when I go up near 250ish and come back down after a few minutes. I think it's at y=100? Think I'll try the sky trap and test out spawn rate after the update.
Chunks are 16x16x16, a chunk can be broken into a chunk 'slice', this is more or less 1x16x16, and thus 1 block wide by 16 blocks by 16 blocks, and this can be any part of the chunk. Next if we extend our y in any direction but do not change our x or z, we enter a new chunk, these chunks are stacked on top of each other and make up a chunk column. And it works this way until we reach 128. When we build above 128 the game (at least on the PC version), creates a new chunk column, and thus the game has 2 chunk columns for that x,z location.
I have no real explanation as to why it does it this why, most likely for computation reasons, but what I can tell you is that when you build above 128 those chunk columns really start to hurt in respects to mob spawns. I believe that kabooPC has a really good video explaining all this and more that i'll see if i can't dig up.
BTW, GregNelson you too man. I've been reading your posts and it's great to finally be able to contribute with you guys.
Thanks for the complement, mostly I feel like a hack amature programmer that tends to play MC on the XB360 most frequently and has an affinity for using google to answer most questions that are asked with some familiarity with youtube and the MC Wiki.
Chunks are 16x16x16, a chunk can be broken into a chunk 'slice', this is more or less 1x16x16, and thus 1 block wide by 16 blocks by 16 blocks, and this can be any part of the chunk....
I wasn't aware that the XBox 360 moved to the 16x16x16 Anvil Section/Chunk format that was implemented on the PC side when they moved from MCRegion format. I thought the XBox360 was being stored in 16x265x16 chunks... but couldn't find anything about it either way when searching. Did 4J decide to do that out of the gate, or did they make that conversion at some point?
I wasn't aware that the XBox 360 moved to the 16x16x16 Anvil Section/Chunk format that was implemented on the PC side when they moved from MCRegion format. I thought the XBox360 was being stored in 16x265x16 chunks... but couldn't find anything about it either way when searching. Did 4J decide to do that out of the gate, or did they make that conversion at some point?
According to kabo, after speaking with him its part of the anvil format and one of the reasons why the format works so well. I didn't quite follow everything he was saying but from what I did its one of the reasons why the map format works well, as if those 'extra' collums don't exists ie lc is lower then 127, then nothing needs to be saved/loaded for that collum and thus disc space is saved as well as initialization and what not.
Now with that said i'm not sure if this format was expanded into the neither, while I can glitch myself still to the top of the neither, any block that i do mange to place is placed as 'bedrock', and furthermore when I reload the map those placed blocks no longer are there, so it leads me to believe that the neither still uses the old format, which is unfortunate as we can't build any farms up there, at least not yet. I have hopes that the future updates may fix that but I'm not going to hold my breath, as my line of thinking is that if they haven't converted it by now they probably aren't going to. I didn't get a chance to test the end but again I believe that its still using the old 128 height format, i forget its name.
Anyhow kaboo did say that this was for the PC, and thus could be different for the xbox, but did say that if they were following the code for MC that most likely it works the same way.
Anyhow kaboo did say that this was for the PC, and thus could be different for the xbox, but did say that if they were following the code for MC that most likely it works the same way.
Looks like Anvil file format was a Java Version 1.2 update (12w07a), so you're probably right in that the XBox is likely using that file format now for saving/loading.
Kabo's video was great, informative...... and so dry. I'm sorry, KaboPC but if you're reading this.... love you man. Your research through the code and presentation is very awesome, but I found myself taking extremely long eye blinks trying to watch the video.
I saw what you were talking about with the chunk sections being 16x16x16, Cire360, but I didn't see anything about y=127 or y=128. I think I need to watch the video again...
I saw what you were talking about with the chunk sections being 16x16x16, Cire360, but I didn't see anything about y=127 or y=128. I think I need to watch the video again...
Not sure that part is in the video, I believe that the MOB's only spawning at 127 or below (not at 128 or above) is more of an XBox360/console/4J thing rather than a Mojang/Minecraft spawning in general thing.
Not sure that part is in the video, I believe that the MOB's only spawning at 127 or below (not at 128 or above) is more of an XBox360/console/4J thing rather than a Mojang/Minecraft spawning in general thing.
Yeah, mobs don't spawn above 128 because of console/4j. We were debating the efficiency of a mob spawner at the very ceiling of the map up around 250 as opposed to one under 128.
Not sure that part is in the video, I believe that the MOB's only spawning at 127 or below (not at 128 or above) is more of an XBox360/console/4J thing rather than a Mojang/Minecraft spawning in general thing.
Yes the no spawn above 128 is more or less a console thing and it has to do with the neither. I remember a tweet sometime ago where 4J said it has to do with the way mobs spawn in the neither, or the height in the neither not changing or something like that which would cause alot of issues. I can't quite recall the reason though. (sign of old age, lol).
I know for awhile on the PC that you had to provide a roof that was something like 7 blocks higher then the spawn floor, I dunno if this would work on the 360 or not, I have my doubts.
Its interesting to note that while hostile mobs won't spawn above 128, that passive mobs like villagers can breed, and spawn iron golems at this height. I know that this is true because I do have a double iron golem spawn platforms that are located at y = 200 and it functions and runs quite well.
I don't know if passive mobs will spawn at that height or not as I havn't tested it.
In respects to kabooPC being dry, yeah I totally agree, but at least he fully covers everything in each video he covers and you walk away with a complete understanding of the mechanics he explained. Both him and Panda4994, and D Kotes are geniuses when it comes to MC.
Yes the no spawn above 128 is more or less a console thing and it has to do with the neither. I remember a tweet sometime ago where 4J said it has to do with the way mobs spawn in the neither, or the height in the neither not changing or something like that which would cause alot of issues. I can't quite recall the reason though. (sign of old age, lol).
It might be related to the same condition that prevents you from returning to a Nether Portal in the overworld that is located above Y=128... instead a new Nether Portal will spawn in the overworld below the Y=128 height.
I actually have a sky trap at the very top of the map in my PC world. It's efficiency is outstanding. There are 2 big problems though:
First, witches can now spawn with the darkness mobs and their drop height distance is greater than the other mobs. I had to adjust the trap size.
Second, the mobs that spawned with armor really messed things up. I guess the armor really works because 1 would not die and that would start the domino effect to start catching more and more mobs until the cap was reached.
I can't wait to try this on the Xbox!
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Does anybody know when the spawn height was moved from Y=128 to Y=256 (with that little bug that prevented spawning above Y=240 for a while) on the PC? 4J tweeted it at some point that the spawn height was changed from 128 to higher but I don't know when on the PC. Just trying to figure out when we can expect it for Xbox. Thanks.
Hern
I couldn't find it either, so it was before 1.0. Doesn't matter when- no one knows when, or even if, the change is coming. (Heck, 128 is way up there, so why is it a big deal of it's above 128 or not???)
I don't understand your post anyway- in one sentence you say 4J(?) tweeted a height change, but the next you ask when the (4J's) change is coming to the xbox?
PS: Welcome to the forum Bob. Different first post....
The build height excited me so much because I was looking forward to a sky trap but...... yeah, 128 is the spawn limit for hostile mobs. I've tested villagers above that and they actually do spawn. Weird.
And thanks for the welcome. Yeah, I've been using the forums for about a year now and I just barely joined!!!
Can't wait for the update though!
In theory one could built it near the 200 range so that ground is out of render range but because the 360 does not unload used chunks this probably will have no bearing and still will not be as efficient as those built below 128. When I say not as efficient I mean even mob grinders that are built > 128 with little caves and ground lit up will outperform those that are built above 128. It all has to do with chunk columns,
More or less we know that a chunk is 16x16x16, and if we take a bunch of chunks in the world that are on top/below of each other (same x,z). This is known as a chunk column. This works for all the world, except when y > 128, in which case when we go above 128 we actually at a another chunk column to the x,z location. When we raise the LC this high it causes something in the mob spawn algorithm to really slow down where mobs will spawn.
I'm sure you've watched a lot of PC mob grinder videos as we all have, and you'll notice that those who have any decent knowledge of the game will attempt to keep their LC below 128. Unfortunately we have know way of knowing our LC without doing some work, basically the LC is the highest block in the chunk.
Anyhow I strongly suggest that you save yourself some grief and NOT build grinders above 128, even in the future when mobs will be able to spawn above 128.
Oh I almost forgot, the main reason why mobs won't spawn above 128 right now is because of the neither, as the ceiling for it is still 128, and its supposedly there to prevent spawns above 128, however when this was mentioned it kind of made me shake my head as the floor for the neither above 128 is comprised of bedrock which mobs can't spawn on, and thus this made no since to me. I've done a bit of testing in the neither and its my opinion that the neither has not been converted to the new anvil format that allows us to build above 128.
Anyhow best of luck with whatever you choose.
But yes, we don't have a debug screen so no knowing what the lc, entity count, or any other cool thing the PC shows. Plus I guess I really don't fully understand how the Xbox version handles chunks anyway. The mob grinder I have now does work great when I go up near 250ish and come back down after a few minutes. I think it's at y=100? Think I'll try the sky trap and test out spawn rate after the update.
By the way Cire, good to hear from you. I've been watching your posts the past few months. You give great advise. It's a real pleasure, man.
Yeah that was my point. On PC, mobs were able to spawn up to y=240 (due to a bug I think) right after 1.2 was released. Then came a bug fix that enabled mob spawning up to 254 foot position. I guess we'll see what happens this update.
BTW, GregNelson you too man. I've been reading your posts and it's great to finally be able to contribute with you guys.
Chunks are 16x16x16, a chunk can be broken into a chunk 'slice', this is more or less 1x16x16, and thus 1 block wide by 16 blocks by 16 blocks, and this can be any part of the chunk. Next if we extend our y in any direction but do not change our x or z, we enter a new chunk, these chunks are stacked on top of each other and make up a chunk column. And it works this way until we reach 128. When we build above 128 the game (at least on the PC version), creates a new chunk column, and thus the game has 2 chunk columns for that x,z location.
I have no real explanation as to why it does it this why, most likely for computation reasons, but what I can tell you is that when you build above 128 those chunk columns really start to hurt in respects to mob spawns. I believe that kabooPC has a really good video explaining all this and more that i'll see if i can't dig up.
Thanks, I'm flattered.
Thanks for the complement, mostly I feel like a hack amature programmer that tends to play MC on the XB360 most frequently and has an affinity for using google to answer most questions that are asked with some familiarity with youtube and the MC Wiki.
I wasn't aware that the XBox 360 moved to the 16x16x16 Anvil Section/Chunk format that was implemented on the PC side when they moved from MCRegion format. I thought the XBox360 was being stored in 16x265x16 chunks... but couldn't find anything about it either way when searching. Did 4J decide to do that out of the gate, or did they make that conversion at some point?
According to kabo, after speaking with him its part of the anvil format and one of the reasons why the format works so well. I didn't quite follow everything he was saying but from what I did its one of the reasons why the map format works well, as if those 'extra' collums don't exists ie lc is lower then 127, then nothing needs to be saved/loaded for that collum and thus disc space is saved as well as initialization and what not.
Now with that said i'm not sure if this format was expanded into the neither, while I can glitch myself still to the top of the neither, any block that i do mange to place is placed as 'bedrock', and furthermore when I reload the map those placed blocks no longer are there, so it leads me to believe that the neither still uses the old format, which is unfortunate as we can't build any farms up there, at least not yet. I have hopes that the future updates may fix that but I'm not going to hold my breath, as my line of thinking is that if they haven't converted it by now they probably aren't going to. I didn't get a chance to test the end but again I believe that its still using the old 128 height format, i forget its name.
Anyhow kaboo did say that this was for the PC, and thus could be different for the xbox, but did say that if they were following the code for MC that most likely it works the same way.
Looks like Anvil file format was a Java Version 1.2 update (12w07a), so you're probably right in that the XBox is likely using that file format now for saving/loading.
I saw what you were talking about with the chunk sections being 16x16x16, Cire360, but I didn't see anything about y=127 or y=128. I think I need to watch the video again...
Not sure that part is in the video, I believe that the MOB's only spawning at 127 or below (not at 128 or above) is more of an XBox360/console/4J thing rather than a Mojang/Minecraft spawning in general thing.
Yeah, mobs don't spawn above 128 because of console/4j. We were debating the efficiency of a mob spawner at the very ceiling of the map up around 250 as opposed to one under 128.
Yes the no spawn above 128 is more or less a console thing and it has to do with the neither. I remember a tweet sometime ago where 4J said it has to do with the way mobs spawn in the neither, or the height in the neither not changing or something like that which would cause alot of issues. I can't quite recall the reason though. (sign of old age, lol).
I know for awhile on the PC that you had to provide a roof that was something like 7 blocks higher then the spawn floor, I dunno if this would work on the 360 or not, I have my doubts.
Its interesting to note that while hostile mobs won't spawn above 128, that passive mobs like villagers can breed, and spawn iron golems at this height. I know that this is true because I do have a double iron golem spawn platforms that are located at y = 200 and it functions and runs quite well.
I don't know if passive mobs will spawn at that height or not as I havn't tested it.
In respects to kabooPC being dry, yeah I totally agree, but at least he fully covers everything in each video he covers and you walk away with a complete understanding of the mechanics he explained. Both him and Panda4994, and D Kotes are geniuses when it comes to MC.
It might be related to the same condition that prevents you from returning to a Nether Portal in the overworld that is located above Y=128... instead a new Nether Portal will spawn in the overworld below the Y=128 height.
First, witches can now spawn with the darkness mobs and their drop height distance is greater than the other mobs. I had to adjust the trap size.
Second, the mobs that spawned with armor really messed things up. I guess the armor really works because 1 would not die and that would start the domino effect to start catching more and more mobs until the cap was reached.
I can't wait to try this on the Xbox!