The first article was really good but when I read the second one and see that the person complaining has griefed others themselves then it doesn't seem the same.
The second is from a university journalism site. My purpose in putting it up was to show that "griefing" is considered to be a form of bullying; so it would form part of the statistics presented in the first article. LePlat's initial premise was that griefing wouldn't or couldn't cause a suicide and he's claiming vast ignorance on those that have suggested it might. I can agree that it probably would not, by itself, cause a suicide; but it does contribute to the larger issue regarding bullying among children, pre-teens and teens... and that issue is contributing to increases in suicide rates among those age groups. Griefing is not a minor thng and should not be trivialized, although griefers do seem to have a tendency to want to trivialize the effects it may be having on their victims.
If we just had a time stamp list for players on the server showing exactly when people got on and off would help alot. Maybe even a coordinate position map also that just keeps the last 24 hours of players positions on the server. Those 2 things would not take much to accomplish. There are some better anti-griefer methods like property claims where you are the only one that can build/mine etc inside that area but that would take more time on developers part.
It seems reasonable that if we are going to get larger maps and more multiplayer on xbox one that griefer prevention would take priority.
What is sad the grievers is getting just what they want here by taking our time here from use letting them know they have accomplished what they have set out to do.
Were are giving them the power here making their ganglia twitch at the cortex, stimulating their very insides like ice-cream or chocolate does to the normal person.
It is like some "Serial Killers" they do it for "notoriety and the five minutes of fame" to out smart people because they think they are smarter. They love they power and the quick fix.
There is nothing more that will anger a griever / Troll then not giving in to them and not giving them their attention, same with a serial killer. the killings will go up when notice is not given showing their selves up in the end.
When you don't give them what they want, it will escalate out of control till they are known, this kind of profile does not care if they are caught you wont stop them.
Real life Example
After the murder of Miss Thakkar, Stani-Reginald jumped in a cab and transported Miss Thakkar's dismembered body, which he had put in a suitcase, to a canal at Meadowbank, Sydney where it was found two days later. After dumping the body, he visited a shopping center before returning home to continue his morbid studies and even spoke to Miss Thakkar's boyfriend as police investigated her disappearance. Stani-Reginald was not found to have been under any influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the murder and has not shown remorse, There's not the slightest suggestion he was horrified by what he had done.
The same with Terrorist groups, this is why it is call terrorism.
Terrorism definition, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, cause public fear.
Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion.
Yes All these people would have been grievers on XBLA and been very good at it and if you had beaten one of them.
Things that come to mind, Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat, Manuel Noriega, Idi Amin Dada
I am sure Manuel Noriega would have sent his police to your house to bring you to his office while two guards hold to remove your hands you in front of you with a machete, He would ask you to take you hand with you and laugh, then shoot you in the head for bleeding on the floor. His second choice was to let you run get medical attention and bleed to death on the way there.
Next Xbox Griever
Idi Amin Dada - The Butcher of Uganda, His favorite was torture and that he would, he was good at it and he tortured his victims for hours on end then would drink their blood. Some times he would just get so mad he would forgo his fun and just murder them on the road sides, murder a whole village. Now just think if you he came to grief your game
I saved these for last the silent grievers
Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat
These are the type that would sit at the Xbox and have a silent hit squad, kill your whole family while you tied to a chair on XBLA with the head set on as they listened in then kill you last. This would only happen if there could be no connection to the deaths, unless there was a political agenda to be gained from it. They would never soil their own hand in doing this
step up grievers who will be our next names on the would news and heads of state and leaders of countries
I don't create games that I invite people to where I save the game, and cheaters are booted.
Umm I'm not a griefer, but if playing a video game brings out these base emotions in people, then those people should seek the aid of a mental health professional. Video games are a convenient scapegoat. I don't care what side you fall on in regards to griefing,spawn camping, etc. if one gets so worked up over a video game, I say you gots a problem. And yes I know what I'm talking about. Got one cousin in the pen for murder. His mom said it was due to GTA. It wasn't,and six years later she can admit that. Sorry no pics. If you want the newspaper articles, please PM. Yes getting griefed sucks, but it's a game. How many of us would think its ok to get so worked up over monopoly? It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain. If it is not entertaining please alter the way you play or stop playing.
Umm I'm not a griefer, but if playing a video game brings out these base emotions in people, then those people should seek the aid of a mental health professional. Video games are a convenient scapegoat. I don't care what side you fall on in regards to griefing,spawn camping, etc. if one gets so worked up over a video game, I say you gots a problem. And yes I know what I'm talking about. Got one cousin in the pen for murder. His mom said it was due to GTA. It wasn't,and six years later she can admit that. Sorry no pics. If you want the newspaper articles, please PM. Yes getting griefed sucks, but it's a game. How many of us would think its ok to get so worked up over monopoly? It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain. If it is not entertaining please alter the way you play or stop playing.
It's not the game that's bringing these emotions out though, it's another human on the other side of the game. There is a major factor when comparing a "creeper" grief and a "player" grief.
I don't believe anyone here is saying that Minecraft makes kids violent, or suicidal, or anything. What we've been discussing are griefers, the act of griefing, causes brought on by griefers, and why griefers feel the need to greif.
News articles are not necessary. There's plenty of news stories out there that finger "violent" type games as reasons people commit some cries. Virginia Tech? They tried linking an fps game the person played to why he went and did what he did. I don't think anyone is going to argue for proof when there are actual people pushing that notion out there.
It's not the game that's bringing these emotions out though, it's another human on the other side of the game. There is a major factor when comparing a "creeper" grief and a "player" grief.
That is pretty much hitting the nail on the aforementioned head.
It's not that people get worked up over the game itself. It's that another person is doing that to someone. The common defense griefers use is that it's just a game. Why should that even be an acceptable excuse? Just because it's a video game shouldn't give people the right to bully or harass other people. That stuff is unacceptable outside of video games in society and real life so why should it be ok just because it's a video game?
That would be like me coming to someones home, burning it down to the ground, then telling them it's ok because they can just buy, rent, or build another one. No harm done right?
@ EvilDogBoy my audience is not the griefer themselves. My hope is to discuss with others the best way to prevent griefing and to keep the topic in the face of the game makers. From my perspective good tools to prevent griefing would go a long way to helping. The true griefer is lost as a human being and not worth talking to.
@SUPERHEAVYDOOD "It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain."
As I have said before I'm a landlord and have had real life property griefed. I feel the same whether it's my minecraft house griefed or a house I'm renting to a tenent. The big difference is when a tenant griefs me I have the tools to deal with the situation. Having someone arrested, small claims court, eviction, non-return of deposit, negative credit report, etc. I need better tools so I can continue running a 24/7 server and still be mostly griefer safe.
I don't think losing a few blocks in a game should make people commit suicide. If servers make people kill themselves, just remove the Multiplayer tab. I don't care. I am not trying to be rude to people who are being bullied or anything, I think it's wrong. But, seriously... Dying because his / her house got blown up? As Superheavydood said "It's a game meant to entertain.", I agree completely! If people are gonna kill themselves over blocks and pixels... Just remove the game or just be smart enough where you will not get griefed.
IAMBaldur888... Griefing is another word for breaking things in MINECRAFT. In real life it's called vandalism.
Theres 2 ways that I grief. 1, I trap creepers in my friends houses. 2, I cover someones mine entrance so they can't get out. I only put creepers in my friends house because I know they won't cry over it. But I hop on random worlds and cover mines all the time.
What is sad the grievers is getting just what they want here by taking our time here from use letting them know they have accomplished what they have set out to do.
Were are giving them the power here making their ganglia twitch at the cortex, stimulating their very insides like ice-cream or chocolate does to the normal person.
It is like some "Serial Killers" they do it for "notoriety and the five minutes of fame" to out smart people because they think they are smarter. They love they power and the quick fix.
There is nothing more that will anger a griever / Troll then not giving in to them and not giving them their attention, same with a serial killer. the killings will go up when notice is not given showing their selves up in the end.
When you don't give them what they want, it will escalate out of control till they are known, this kind of profile does not care if they are caught you wont stop them.
Real life Example
After the murder of Miss Thakkar, Stani-Reginald jumped in a cab and transported Miss Thakkar's dismembered body, which he had put in a suitcase, to a canal at Meadowbank, Sydney where it was found two days later. After dumping the body, he visited a shopping center before returning home to continue his morbid studies and even spoke to Miss Thakkar's boyfriend as police investigated her disappearance. Stani-Reginald was not found to have been under any influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the murder and has not shown remorse, There's not the slightest suggestion he was horrified by what he had done.
The same with Terrorist groups, this is why it is call terrorism.
Terrorism definition, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, cause public fear.
Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion.
Yes All these people would have been grievers on XBLA and been very good at it and if you had beaten one of them.
Things that come to mind, Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat, Manuel Noriega, Idi Amin Dada
I am sure Manuel Noriega would have sent his police to your house to bring you to his office while two guards hold to remove your hands you in front of you with a machete, He would ask you to take you hand with you and laugh, then shoot you in the head for bleeding on the floor. His second choice was to let you run get medical attention and bleed to death on the way there.
Next Xbox Griever
Idi Amin Dada - The Butcher of Uganda, His favorite was torture and that he would, he was good at it and he tortured his victims for hours on end then would drink their blood. Some times he would just get so mad he would forgo his fun and just murder them on the road sides, murder a whole village. Now just think if you he came to grief your game
I saved these for last the silent grievers
Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat
These are the type that would sit at the Xbox and have a silent hit squad, kill your whole family while you tied to a chair on XBLA with the head set on as they listened in then kill you last. This would only happen if there could be no connection to the deaths, unless there was a political agenda to be gained from it. They would never soil their own hand in doing this
step up grievers who will be our next names on the would news and heads of state and leaders of countries
I don't create games that I invite people to where I save the game, and cheaters are booted.
@ EvilDogBoy my audience is not the griefer themselves. My hope is to discuss with others the best way to prevent griefing and to keep the topic in the face of the game makers. From my perspective good tools to prevent griefing would go a long way to helping. The true griefer is lost as a human being and not worth talking to.
@SUPERHEAVYDOOD "It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain."
As I have said before I'm a landlord and have had real life property griefed. I feel the same whether it's my minecraft house griefed or a house I'm renting to a tenent. The big difference is when a tenant griefs me I have the tools to deal with the situation. Having someone arrested, small claims court, eviction, non-return of deposit, negative credit report, etc. I need better tools so I can continue running a 24/7 server and still be mostly griefer safe.
I did not call them all grievers some have perfessed and confessed to being grievers and enjoying the fact that they are. I am referring to those and only those.. Those whom draw poser form their actions and take pleasure at it
I did not call them all grievers some have perfessed and confessed to being grievers and enjoying the fact that they are. I am referring to those and only those.. Those whom draw poser form their actions and take pleasure at it
I may have miscommunicated there. I wasn't trying to say you call everyone griefers. I should have worded that better.
no I am just drawing a simple contrast to people in the past to people in the future and the way social development issues are headed.
many of the young today will be leaders in communities tomorrow, and they get enjoyment out of making peoples lives hard.
simple public offices, from animal control zoning all the way up to town council, and up.
Please don't say no.
I can tell you right now that one son is going to go to law enforcement training, and he plays just the way he acts in life I don't want to meet him on a road side on a stop. He goes to far and takes it to far.
I can tell you that the way people interact in games is generally in games how they interact real life.
Here are a few profile types some are obvious grievers, what is sad is allot of the younger people find allot of the bad ones listed ok in game and in life and the mouth that goes with it would even make Satan look like a saint
The bad-boy complex
The GOD complex
The Judge jury and Executioner Complex
The Kill or be Killed complex
The Kill first ask questions later complex
The gangster complex
The I am so awesome complex
The laid back complex
The every one love this player complex
As I have said before I'm a landlord and have had real life property griefed. I feel the same whether it's my minecraft house griefed or a house I'm renting to a tenent. The big difference is when a tenant griefs me I have the tools to deal with the situation. Having someone arrested, small claims court, eviction, non-return of deposit, negative credit report, etc. I need better tools so I can continue running a 24/7 server and still be mostly griefer safe.
I think this touches on the crux of the matter that some folks don't get.
There is a very real sense of violation when your safe place is invaded/vandalized/burglarized whether in real life or even just a game. Playing a multiplayer session of MC where you think it is a safe place to build and be cooperative and then to be griefed on is a shock. Some folks may take it way too seriously, but most correctly wired human beings will suffer some interuption in their happiness.
This is not the same as expectations while playing a PVP game. There's some blogger out there claiming that killing a girl in Halo is as bad as rape, as though the girl experiences the same equivalent trauma. That's baloney. If you join a Halo death match, you aren't there to trust your fellow players. You are there to kill others and expect to be killed. There's no "shock" or betrayal of trust.
Playing MC is usually not a PVP experience. It's more like building with blocks in the kindergarten classroom. When the bully comes over and knocks it down, there are very few people who wouldn't be upset. They thought they were in a safe place, and somebody violated them, their work, and their trust.
I cannot see how any correctly wired human could fail to comprehend that the impact is real when considered in these terms. To fail in this is to demonstrate a lack of empathy for others and consideration that they view something as important where you do not.
Umm I'm not a griefer, but if playing a video game brings out these base emotions in people, then those people should seek the aid of a mental health professional. Video games are a convenient scapegoat. I don't care what side you fall on in regards to griefing,spawn camping, etc. if one gets so worked up over a video game, I say you gots a problem. And yes I know what I'm talking about. Got one cousin in the pen for murder. His mom said it was due to GTA. It wasn't,and six years later she can admit that. Sorry no pics. If you want the newspaper articles, please PM. Yes getting griefed sucks, but it's a game. How many of us would think its ok to get so worked up over monopoly? It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain. If it is not entertaining please alter the way you play or stop playing.
Monopoly is a bad example really.
Imagine somebody griefs you at monopoly, they stomp all over your board and burn your Monopoly money.
Very extreme IMO, you cannot call griefing part of the game because it isn't meant to be there.
TNT is for mining and flint & steel is for nether portal, burning forests or cooking mobs.
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The second is from a university journalism site. My purpose in putting it up was to show that "griefing" is considered to be a form of bullying; so it would form part of the statistics presented in the first article. LePlat's initial premise was that griefing wouldn't or couldn't cause a suicide and he's claiming vast ignorance on those that have suggested it might. I can agree that it probably would not, by itself, cause a suicide; but it does contribute to the larger issue regarding bullying among children, pre-teens and teens... and that issue is contributing to increases in suicide rates among those age groups. Griefing is not a minor thng and should not be trivialized, although griefers do seem to have a tendency to want to trivialize the effects it may be having on their victims.
All great ideas.
Were are giving them the power here making their ganglia twitch at the cortex, stimulating their very insides like ice-cream or chocolate does to the normal person.
It is like some "Serial Killers" they do it for "notoriety and the five minutes of fame" to out smart people because they think they are smarter. They love they power and the quick fix.
There is nothing more that will anger a griever / Troll then not giving in to them and not giving them their attention, same with a serial killer. the killings will go up when notice is not given showing their selves up in the end.
When you don't give them what they want, it will escalate out of control till they are known, this kind of profile does not care if they are caught you wont stop them.
Real life Example
After the murder of Miss Thakkar, Stani-Reginald jumped in a cab and transported Miss Thakkar's dismembered body, which he had put in a suitcase, to a canal at Meadowbank, Sydney where it was found two days later. After dumping the body, he visited a shopping center before returning home to continue his morbid studies and even spoke to Miss Thakkar's boyfriend as police investigated her disappearance. Stani-Reginald was not found to have been under any influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the murder and has not shown remorse, There's not the slightest suggestion he was horrified by what he had done.
The same with Terrorist groups, this is why it is call terrorism.
Terrorism definition, the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, cause public fear.
Acts of violence committed by groups that view themselves as victimized by some notable historical wrong. Although these groups have no formal connection with governments, they usually have the financial and moral backing of sympathetic governments. Typically, they stage unexpected attacks on civilian targets, including embassies and airliners, with the aim of sowing fear and confusion.
Yes All these people would have been grievers on XBLA and been very good at it and if you had beaten one of them.
Things that come to mind, Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat, Manuel Noriega, Idi Amin Dada
I am sure Manuel Noriega would have sent his police to your house to bring you to his office while two guards hold to remove your hands you in front of you with a machete, He would ask you to take you hand with you and laugh, then shoot you in the head for bleeding on the floor. His second choice was to let you run get medical attention and bleed to death on the way there.
Next Xbox Griever
Idi Amin Dada - The Butcher of Uganda, His favorite was torture and that he would, he was good at it and he tortured his victims for hours on end then would drink their blood. Some times he would just get so mad he would forgo his fun and just murder them on the road sides, murder a whole village. Now just think if you he came to grief your game
I saved these for last the silent grievers
Moammar Gadhafi, Yasser Arafat
These are the type that would sit at the Xbox and have a silent hit squad, kill your whole family while you tied to a chair on XBLA with the head set on as they listened in then kill you last. This would only happen if there could be no connection to the deaths, unless there was a political agenda to be gained from it. They would never soil their own hand in doing this
step up grievers who will be our next names on the would news and heads of state and leaders of countries
I don't create games that I invite people to where I save the game, and cheaters are booted.
Project Aztec Server Stats: Rage Quits - 132 Deaths - 311 Survivors - 13, 11:36
Sorry to hear man.
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Forum AdminI don't believe anyone here is saying that Minecraft makes kids violent, or suicidal, or anything. What we've been discussing are griefers, the act of griefing, causes brought on by griefers, and why griefers feel the need to greif.
News articles are not necessary. There's plenty of news stories out there that finger "violent" type games as reasons people commit some cries. Virginia Tech? They tried linking an fps game the person played to why he went and did what he did. I don't think anyone is going to argue for proof when there are actual people pushing that notion out there.
It's not that people get worked up over the game itself. It's that another person is doing that to someone. The common defense griefers use is that it's just a game. Why should that even be an acceptable excuse? Just because it's a video game shouldn't give people the right to bully or harass other people. That stuff is unacceptable outside of video games in society and real life so why should it be ok just because it's a video game?
That would be like me coming to someones home, burning it down to the ground, then telling them it's ok because they can just buy, rent, or build another one. No harm done right?
@SUPERHEAVYDOOD "It's not your house in real life. It's not your actual retirement fund. It's a game meant to entertain."
As I have said before I'm a landlord and have had real life property griefed. I feel the same whether it's my minecraft house griefed or a house I'm renting to a tenent. The big difference is when a tenant griefs me I have the tools to deal with the situation. Having someone arrested, small claims court, eviction, non-return of deposit, negative credit report, etc. I need better tools so I can continue running a 24/7 server and still be mostly griefer safe.
IAMBaldur888... Griefing is another word for breaking things in MINECRAFT. In real life it's called vandalism.
Useless things, the concept of our minds.
I did not call them all grievers some have perfessed and confessed to being grievers and enjoying the fact that they are. I am referring to those and only those.. Those whom draw poser form their actions and take pleasure at it
Project Aztec Server Stats: Rage Quits - 132 Deaths - 311 Survivors - 13, 11:36
I may have miscommunicated there. I wasn't trying to say you call everyone griefers. I should have worded that better.
no I am just drawing a simple contrast to people in the past to people in the future and the way social development issues are headed.
many of the young today will be leaders in communities tomorrow, and they get enjoyment out of making peoples lives hard.
simple public offices, from animal control zoning all the way up to town council, and up.
Please don't say no.
I can tell you right now that one son is going to go to law enforcement training, and he plays just the way he acts in life I don't want to meet him on a road side on a stop. He goes to far and takes it to far.
I can tell you that the way people interact in games is generally in games how they interact real life.
Here are a few profile types some are obvious grievers, what is sad is allot of the younger people find allot of the bad ones listed ok in game and in life and the mouth that goes with it would even make Satan look like a saint
The bad-boy complex
The GOD complex
The Judge jury and Executioner Complex
The Kill or be Killed complex
The Kill first ask questions later complex
The gangster complex
The I am so awesome complex
The laid back complex
The every one love this player complex
Project Aztec Server Stats: Rage Quits - 132 Deaths - 311 Survivors - 13, 11:36
I think this touches on the crux of the matter that some folks don't get.
There is a very real sense of violation when your safe place is invaded/vandalized/burglarized whether in real life or even just a game. Playing a multiplayer session of MC where you think it is a safe place to build and be cooperative and then to be griefed on is a shock. Some folks may take it way too seriously, but most correctly wired human beings will suffer some interuption in their happiness.
This is not the same as expectations while playing a PVP game. There's some blogger out there claiming that killing a girl in Halo is as bad as rape, as though the girl experiences the same equivalent trauma. That's baloney. If you join a Halo death match, you aren't there to trust your fellow players. You are there to kill others and expect to be killed. There's no "shock" or betrayal of trust.
Playing MC is usually not a PVP experience. It's more like building with blocks in the kindergarten classroom. When the bully comes over and knocks it down, there are very few people who wouldn't be upset. They thought they were in a safe place, and somebody violated them, their work, and their trust.
I cannot see how any correctly wired human could fail to comprehend that the impact is real when considered in these terms. To fail in this is to demonstrate a lack of empathy for others and consideration that they view something as important where you do not.
Monopoly is a bad example really.
Imagine somebody griefs you at monopoly, they stomp all over your board and burn your Monopoly money.
Very extreme IMO, you cannot call griefing part of the game because it isn't meant to be there.
TNT is for mining and flint & steel is for nether portal, burning forests or cooking mobs.