The Poverty Window is a concept that gives many games like this their challenge.
Simply put, the game is most challenging when you DON'T have an abundance of your resources. You have to go hunting to complete a project.
But if you play the game successfully long enough, you escape the Poverty Window. Then you have chests full of every conceivable material and you really don't need to go hunting or gathering any more. You're pretty much set for life.
Do you find yourself resetting the game when that happens?
I understand completely. This is the question I have been asking myself for the last few days. I have a feeling i will be soon starting a new map soon.
Do you mean when you have played the same world for so long that you have so many items and so many resources that you no longer need to go find anything any more as you can just survive without doing anything?
Yes, I enjoy the game more when I'm just starting out and usually have at least one "hardcore-style" world on the go at any given point in time. Frankly, I suck so there is no worry of me ever getting out of the poverty zone in those particular worlds. Invariably, a creeper will soon enough dash all my hopes and dreams. (lol)
Doing my one chest challenge thing has helped a lot to keep my interest in that world going. Basically, I'm playing survival without allowing myself to ever accumulate more items than will find in one double chest (and I must empty out my inventory whenever I leave the game and I can't dispose of anything in lava either), I also can't have a multitude of dispensers and furnaces holding items. I actually find that, in that world, I've built more different things than I have in my main world where I have a large collection of chests holding various materials. It seems that, without the one-chest restriction, I have a tendency to hoard certain materials for "future" projects... and then I just never seem to get around to building those ideas. Limiting myself to the single chest forces me to collect only what I need for a build and only when the build is at a point when I need it. I also sometimes have to think creatively about how to utilize blocks that I collect "accidentally" from time to time.
I've never heard it called that before, but it makes a lot of sense.
I was actually thinking about how much more challenging it would be if the hostile mobs were more aggressive.
What if you had to actually defend your stashed resources?
Right now, the greatest tool for defending your hard work is a torch. It really isn't too hard to defend against the hostile mobs as they are right now.
Part of me thinks it would be fun to see how my castle holds up to a siege. Maybe it's just me though.
Do you mean when you have played the same world for so long that you have so many items and so many resources that you no longer need to go find anything any more as you can just survive without doing anything?
I would say if this was the case (which would be hard for me) i would reset the game - but i tend to try and build my cities and towns in survival mode as opposed to creative mode which make the game go on and on and on.
Same thing happens with me i played my world for so long i Seriously have All cave explored all materials i could ever need
its just not fun anymore im so rich in materials i decorate my house with diamond blocks
I generally only feel that way about stone and ores/gems. Once I have a huge surplus of those, I usually try to build with mineral blocks. I never feel like there's no point in gathering more resources though; I'm a bit of a completionist, so as long as there's ores out there to be mined, I always feel a need to go find them!
I'm having this problem, too.
I have 33 diamonds, level 53 (2 enchanted diamond pick axes and swords) beat the ender dragon,have farms for everything, and have a ton of potions.
But, thankfully my world is full of islands. So my goal is to build rail tracks to them and have mining stations at each one. Also get full enchanted diamond armor.
By when I do that, I don't know. I've had this world since I bought the game and it would suck if I got bored of it.
I've never heard it called that before, but it makes a lot of sense.
the OP is referring to an aspect of game design, regarding resource availability.
Namely, the game starts you out with scarce resources, and is more deadly in the beginning, than at the end of play.
Because the monsters don't scale up in danger, as you develop shelter, food sources and equipment, you reach a point where you either don't encounter them (lots of lights and walls) or they can't hurt you (diamond armor and swords).
This is why, in my opinion, talking up how much purer the game is in Survival mode is just hyperbole. It is so easy to secure a region, light it up, and have a large enough area to mine and improve your equipment and food that the monsters were never really a challenge.
The monsters are at best, a nuisance to interrupt your building plans.
Well lets just say...
I have over 80 tools 30'd enchant, a stack of diamonds, stack of iron blocks and over 2 chest fulls of food.
That of course if my main survival world i play on. I occasionally make new worlds with my friends on hardcore. (its the concept of LAN Party Minecraft by freddiew on youtube, you can check it out .
the OP is referring to an aspect of game design, regarding resource availability.
Namely, the game starts you out with scarce resources, and is more deadly in the beginning, than at the end of play.
Because the monsters don't scale up in danger, as you develop shelter, food sources and equipment, you reach a point where you either don't encounter them (lots of lights and walls) or they can't hurt you (diamond armor and swords).
This is why, in my opinion, talking up how much purer the game is in Survival mode is just hyperbole. It is so easy to secure a region, light it up, and have a large enough area to mine and improve your equipment and food that the monsters were never really a challenge.
The monsters are at best, a nuisance to interrupt your building plans.
I agree. I keep thinking about disasters in SimCity. I always built my cities up with them turned off. I didn't want to see my hard worked "tainted" by random fires or earthquakes. But it was also fun to see how well my city handled the disasters.
We know that people take pride in gathering the resources themselves (look at the debates over creative vs survival). Imagine the next level: having your creations surviving a zombie "siege", or a dragon attack, or a flood (sea level rising a block a day, for example).
I don't know if any of that would make the game more fun, I'm just rambling.
if you going to keep restarting your game just because your chests are full then your not playing the game properly...
nuff said !!
I disagree... the player(s) in a world have a right to decide for themselves when they've completed the "game" in a given world or whether or not they've failed whatever objectives they've set for themselves. The game gives players in survival the option of essentially "not dying" repeatedly by respawning and continuing on (except in hardcore mode which is not yet on the Xbox); so what would make a decision to end the game because one's chests are X full "wrong." It just makes the game play a little differently... with a slightly different focus and perspective... and this game IS allegedly about using your imagination and creativity, is it not?
"Minecraft is a game about breaking and placing blocks. At first, people built structures to protect against nocturnal monsters, but as the game grew players worked together to create wonderful, imaginative things."
I agree. I keep thinking about disasters in SimCity. I always built my cities up with them turned off. I didn't want to see my hard worked "tainted" by random fires or earthquakes. But it was also fun to see how well my city handled the disasters.
We know that people take pride in gathering the resources themselves (look at the debates over creative vs survival). Imagine the next level: having your creations surviving a zombie "siege", or a dragon attack, or a flood (sea level rising a block a day, for example).
I don't know if any of that would make the game more fun, I'm just rambling.
Spawning in and securing the area is certainly one of the fun parts for me in MC360. I've gotten good at it, and I don't even use weapons. I rarely die in the game, because I rarely fall or encounter a monster that I couldn't run away from.
Once you have the strategy down, there's not much risk in the game.
I would like to see zombie sieges, and other "disasters" that ramp up over time (thereby justifying all the defensive building).
Speaking strictly to my Survival worlds (not the Creative ones).
I know I look forward to some of the PC items the 360 is supposed to get (really given where we are some of them should have been in already but that is another matter and discussed in another thread). Zombie Sieges will certainly add to the game as well as finishing the Biome code and the mobs.
Overall, it depends on the world for me, but 'The End' has never been the end game for me (PC or now 360).
I enjoy making it past the 'Poverty Window'. After that I may start a new world or see where I want to go creatively. It really depends on how the world speaks to me. Some I've quit once I've got a stack of diamonds; others I've got full scale terra-forming efforts ongoing.
.
I tend to find even though the game is easy I enjoy my builds more when they've been done on Survival Hard versus the ones done on Creative. I look forward to a hardcore mode for the 360 if it ever gets added.
leaving yourself with such a small goal makes you miss out on a bigger experience, yes i believe anyone should be allowed to make there own rules, but then dont moan about it when the game is so short or lacking any depth...
That keeping oneself down to a single chest is a "small goal" is really a matter of opinion. To build huge structures while limiting yourself to minimal storage of supplies is an inventory management task that actually can be quite challenging; particularly if one's nature tends to make them want to hoard things away in chests. It adds more depth without necessarily detracting from any of the aspects of the game that are already there.
Defending a player's right to add in aspects to the game on their own does not mean that I disagree with ramping up mob difficulty over time spent playing the game, either. I actually think that it would be a great addition to the game. Given the game's basic advertised philosophy about creativity and imagination, however, I would not advocate for it being put into effect in all modes and difficulty levels of the game. Having the game become just a series of increasingly difficult levels would probably have the effect of dissuading players from devising their own creative and imaginitive "rules" for playing the game a little differently from the norm.
The game is designed to provide players with an opportunity to play it in many different ways. Players who limit themselves to "such a small goal" as "survival" only could also be said to be "missing out on a bigger experience."... particularly when the player's "survival" is never really in question in this particular version of the game. They can just respawn and keep going; and "hardcore" right now is just the same as a "one-chest" goal - it's an add-on challenge put into the game by the players themselves.
The game will change when zombies start attacking villagers, Having both the xbox version and the pc version I do understand playing with no resources is more of a challenge than when you have played a while and have stacks of stuff and dont know what to do. If the xbox follows the PC version, then we should be getting zombie attacks, trading with villagers, witch huts, jungle temples, desert temples etc. When you explore the temples you have to find the treasure. I would like to see some sort of scaleable monsters. Almost like they build places and surplies like we do, and as they build up, they get stronger. Although I dont want creepers any stronger. On the pc version some skeletons and zombies pick up items, you see them with swords etc but they dont seem any stronger. Maybe this could be worked on and make them more difficult to fight. I would like to see a no mob area when you first start so you can gather materials for a basic structure, say for a game day, Zombies do break down doors in villages on the PC so you need to defend them from attacks.
All I can say is I love the xbox version for playing with my friends but do hope it catches up to the PC version quickly so we get some of the more exciting aspects of the game.
I think the problem with this idea that we're perfectly set after a few weeks (Minecraft time) is because by now we're almost all pro's at surviving. We all know how to get food, how long a day lasts and how fast to build and how easy it is to expand. We all know how mobs behave so we keep them off our land with torches/fences.
I lost the survival aspect of the game after about a month(Actual time) Into my first Minecraft world and just found the mobs as more of a annoyance than a deadly figure. I ended up building a massive city with my friends, but once 1.8 came out the surviving for me just because easier and easier every world I get into.
I feel as though I'm never really in a "Poverty window" anytime I make a world. I know what I'm doing and mobs are just plain easy even on the first night. There have been times when I load up a new survival world and can't even play it because I get bored. I know why too, because I already have a full sense of security the moment I load a world until i leave a world.
Back when I played minecraft for the very first time on my computer, the sound of a zombie was horrific, I didn't know what to do and I never ever made it anywhere remotely close to a proper survival world. (Part of that is because I tried running it at full settings on an old computer and it basically blew itself up.)
Either way, as long winded as this is and as off topic as it is, I do sometimes just start a world even without my last one even remotley close to a world where I can easily live in. I just sometimes get bored of my old seed.
Simply put, the game is most challenging when you DON'T have an abundance of your resources. You have to go hunting to complete a project.
But if you play the game successfully long enough, you escape the Poverty Window. Then you have chests full of every conceivable material and you really don't need to go hunting or gathering any more. You're pretty much set for life.
Do you find yourself resetting the game when that happens?
Exactly.
Doing my one chest challenge thing has helped a lot to keep my interest in that world going. Basically, I'm playing survival without allowing myself to ever accumulate more items than will find in one double chest (and I must empty out my inventory whenever I leave the game and I can't dispose of anything in lava either), I also can't have a multitude of dispensers and furnaces holding items. I actually find that, in that world, I've built more different things than I have in my main world where I have a large collection of chests holding various materials. It seems that, without the one-chest restriction, I have a tendency to hoard certain materials for "future" projects... and then I just never seem to get around to building those ideas. Limiting myself to the single chest forces me to collect only what I need for a build and only when the build is at a point when I need it. I also sometimes have to think creatively about how to utilize blocks that I collect "accidentally" from time to time.
I was actually thinking about how much more challenging it would be if the hostile mobs were more aggressive.
What if you had to actually defend your stashed resources?
Right now, the greatest tool for defending your hard work is a torch. It really isn't too hard to defend against the hostile mobs as they are right now.
Part of me thinks it would be fun to see how my castle holds up to a siege. Maybe it's just me though.
its just not fun anymore im so rich in materials i decorate my house with diamond blocks
How Aboot Now Eh?
Keep yourself up to date with the Minecraft Forum rules!
That's when I sailed across the ocean and "started over" on the other corner of my map.
Stay fluffy~
I have 33 diamonds, level 53 (2 enchanted diamond pick axes and swords) beat the ender dragon,have farms for everything, and have a ton of potions.
But, thankfully my world is full of islands. So my goal is to build rail tracks to them and have mining stations at each one. Also get full enchanted diamond armor.
By when I do that, I don't know. I've had this world since I bought the game and it would suck if I got bored of it.
the OP is referring to an aspect of game design, regarding resource availability.
Namely, the game starts you out with scarce resources, and is more deadly in the beginning, than at the end of play.
Because the monsters don't scale up in danger, as you develop shelter, food sources and equipment, you reach a point where you either don't encounter them (lots of lights and walls) or they can't hurt you (diamond armor and swords).
This is why, in my opinion, talking up how much purer the game is in Survival mode is just hyperbole. It is so easy to secure a region, light it up, and have a large enough area to mine and improve your equipment and food that the monsters were never really a challenge.
The monsters are at best, a nuisance to interrupt your building plans.
I have over 80 tools 30'd enchant, a stack of diamonds, stack of iron blocks and over 2 chest fulls of food.
That of course if my main survival world i play on. I occasionally make new worlds with my friends on hardcore. (its the concept of LAN Party Minecraft by freddiew on youtube, you can check it out .
I agree. I keep thinking about disasters in SimCity. I always built my cities up with them turned off. I didn't want to see my hard worked "tainted" by random fires or earthquakes. But it was also fun to see how well my city handled the disasters.
We know that people take pride in gathering the resources themselves (look at the debates over creative vs survival). Imagine the next level: having your creations surviving a zombie "siege", or a dragon attack, or a flood (sea level rising a block a day, for example).
I don't know if any of that would make the game more fun, I'm just rambling.
I disagree... the player(s) in a world have a right to decide for themselves when they've completed the "game" in a given world or whether or not they've failed whatever objectives they've set for themselves. The game gives players in survival the option of essentially "not dying" repeatedly by respawning and continuing on (except in hardcore mode which is not yet on the Xbox); so what would make a decision to end the game because one's chests are X full "wrong." It just makes the game play a little differently... with a slightly different focus and perspective... and this game IS allegedly about using your imagination and creativity, is it not?
"Minecraft is a game about breaking and placing blocks. At first, people built structures to protect against nocturnal monsters, but as the game grew players worked together to create wonderful, imaginative things."
Ref: https://minecraft.net/
Divising different foci for playing the game itself IS just being creative and imaginitive.
Spawning in and securing the area is certainly one of the fun parts for me in MC360. I've gotten good at it, and I don't even use weapons. I rarely die in the game, because I rarely fall or encounter a monster that I couldn't run away from.
Once you have the strategy down, there's not much risk in the game.
I would like to see zombie sieges, and other "disasters" that ramp up over time (thereby justifying all the defensive building).
I know I look forward to some of the PC items the 360 is supposed to get (really given where we are some of them should have been in already but that is another matter and discussed in another thread). Zombie Sieges will certainly add to the game as well as finishing the Biome code and the mobs.
Overall, it depends on the world for me, but 'The End' has never been the end game for me (PC or now 360).
I enjoy making it past the 'Poverty Window'. After that I may start a new world or see where I want to go creatively. It really depends on how the world speaks to me. Some I've quit once I've got a stack of diamonds; others I've got full scale terra-forming efforts ongoing.
.
I tend to find even though the game is easy I enjoy my builds more when they've been done on Survival Hard versus the ones done on Creative. I look forward to a hardcore mode for the 360 if it ever gets added.
That keeping oneself down to a single chest is a "small goal" is really a matter of opinion. To build huge structures while limiting yourself to minimal storage of supplies is an inventory management task that actually can be quite challenging; particularly if one's nature tends to make them want to hoard things away in chests. It adds more depth without necessarily detracting from any of the aspects of the game that are already there.
Defending a player's right to add in aspects to the game on their own does not mean that I disagree with ramping up mob difficulty over time spent playing the game, either. I actually think that it would be a great addition to the game. Given the game's basic advertised philosophy about creativity and imagination, however, I would not advocate for it being put into effect in all modes and difficulty levels of the game. Having the game become just a series of increasingly difficult levels would probably have the effect of dissuading players from devising their own creative and imaginitive "rules" for playing the game a little differently from the norm.
The game is designed to provide players with an opportunity to play it in many different ways. Players who limit themselves to "such a small goal" as "survival" only could also be said to be "missing out on a bigger experience."... particularly when the player's "survival" is never really in question in this particular version of the game. They can just respawn and keep going; and "hardcore" right now is just the same as a "one-chest" goal - it's an add-on challenge put into the game by the players themselves.
All I can say is I love the xbox version for playing with my friends but do hope it catches up to the PC version quickly so we get some of the more exciting aspects of the game.
I lost the survival aspect of the game after about a month(Actual time) Into my first Minecraft world and just found the mobs as more of a annoyance than a deadly figure. I ended up building a massive city with my friends, but once 1.8 came out the surviving for me just because easier and easier every world I get into.
I feel as though I'm never really in a "Poverty window" anytime I make a world. I know what I'm doing and mobs are just plain easy even on the first night. There have been times when I load up a new survival world and can't even play it because I get bored. I know why too, because I already have a full sense of security the moment I load a world until i leave a world.
Back when I played minecraft for the very first time on my computer, the sound of a zombie was horrific, I didn't know what to do and I never ever made it anywhere remotely close to a proper survival world. (Part of that is because I tried running it at full settings on an old computer and it basically blew itself up.)
Either way, as long winded as this is and as off topic as it is, I do sometimes just start a world even without my last one even remotley close to a world where I can easily live in. I just sometimes get bored of my old seed.