oh and by the way, in response to the emergency fix time, TU10 already in cert testing, go 4J.
It finally entered Microsoft Cert? I known they submitted it. I hadn't seen it as finally in cycle and being tested yet. Then again that was the 9th and I've only checked their twitter page.
I think what he meant to say is that free updates are expensive for the developer, and they still have to pay a lot of fees & dues before it can be put live. I'm not expert there though.
It costs $0 for 4J to update Minecraft. Notch talked about this in a Minecon interview. The updates are completely free aside from the time and effort put into them by 4J. Normally they would cost $40,000 but Microsoft waives the fee as part of the agreement between Mojang and Microsoft.
It finally entered Microsoft Cert? I known they submitted it. I hadn't seen it as finally in cycle and being tested yet. Then again that was the 9th and I've only checked their twitter page.
It costs $0 for 4J to update Minecraft. Notch talked about this in a Minecon interview. The updates are completely free aside from the time and effort put into them by 4J. Normally they would cost $40,000 but Microsoft waives the fee as part of the agreement between Mojang and Microsoft.
Time, effort, the electricity to run the computers, water for the loo, roof over their heads, all that costs MONEY.
Well all I know is that I used to play minecraft all of the time and now I am barely on an hour a week. We are so far behind the pc and it just seems to keep getting worse and worse. This game has tons of potential and hopefully one day it will get there.
I cringe at the thought of how much support i give notch and his company. We keep the forums active, we buy the game, we buy the skins. BUY SKINS! The PC version doesn't even make you have to buy skins to play an rpg world with your friends. Also why even bother playing with 7 other friends in your world when half the time everyone is complaining about chunks not loading and always lagging out. When you lag out then you need to re chuck. Its terrible, please invest some of the profit you receive and invest into us. WE, THE PEOPLE!
The T10 update might as well be a cruel joke to us. T10 update dedicated to fixing all of the problems of the previous, yeah lets see how that goes. I wish there was a way to get my money back. If its really that hard 4j then please please please step aside and leave it to the community. Even looking at the PC version it seems the community has better ideas and mod packs. Oh wait i bet your going to charge us for that also.
The T10 update might as well be a cruel joke to us. T10 update dedicated to fixing all of the problems of the previous, yeah lets see how that goes. I wish there was a way to get my money back. If its really that hard 4j then please please please step aside and leave it to the community. Even looking at the PC version it seems the community has better ideas and mod packs. Oh wait i bet your going to charge us for that also.
Xbox Live and the Xbox 360 are not and have never been an open source environment. The PC is and if that is what certain users in this community want to partake in, they are absolutely free to do so... on the PC. Microsoft controls Xbox Live, not 4J and not Mojang, so riding 4J to "step aside" to allow the community to step in is, IMO, just plain silly.
Here is the thing alot of people don't understand about xbox minecraft. The xbox just isn't powerful enough to run minecraft. Which is why the worlds are only 864x864 instead of being endless. Most desktops that run minecraft have around 8gb of ram which is 16 times more than the 360 has at only 512mb. Another thing is the processor. Although not slow, but when compared to what is out now, it doesn't come close. Now the graphics card is what really hurts us. Xbox is running on an ATI xenos running at 10mb which is nothing compered to the 2gb or 2048mb of most computers now have. The xbox version isn't a direct port from pc but rather a completely different game. 4J has had to completely re-write the code for minecraft. Think about how long it took for pc minecraft to get where it is now. So for 4J to move all this over to xbox is going to take just as long. Now when the 720 comes out then it might be a direct port of the pc version because it will be able to handle it. Even though minecraft looks like a simple game its not. So to put this in the best way to understand it would be like trying to put Battlefield 3 on the original xbox.
The T10 update might as well be a cruel joke to us. T10 update dedicated to fixing all of the problems of the previous, yeah lets see how that goes. I wish there was a way to get my money back. If its really that hard 4j then please please please step aside and leave it to the community. Even looking at the PC version it seems the community has better ideas and mod packs. Oh wait i bet your going to charge us for that also.
You think it's a problem that TU10 is dedicated to fixing bugs of the previous version? Did you know that the PC version 1.2.3 was dedicated to fixing the bugs in 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 ? Also, in 1.5, they fixed 115 different bugs. TU9 had bugs, just like any PC update. Some of them even crashed the game, unlike the bugs in this update. You can still play the game with bad lighting (sure, it's not enjoyable, but you don't have to reset your Xbox when it happens), and there's a workaround for the Xbox live Silver bug.
The only reason these bugs haven't been fixed yet is Microsoft's painfully long update process. If 4j studios was "in control", then we would be receiving much more frequent updates and everybody would be happy. But even then, 4j studios is coding major versions of Minecraft faster than they were coded on the PC. On the PC, it took 2 months after 1.0 (our TU7) was released to release 1.1, while after our TU8 (which was a bug fix for TU7, during which time they were likely not working on a lot of stuff from TU9 [yes I know they were working a little on the End during that time period]) it took 2 months to release, accounting for Microsoft Cert testing and the fact that they were adding the End, climbable vines, item frames, and other things along with it (I may be wrong on the time period for TU9).
You all ask for the Xbox to be like the PC version, that we should "catch up" to the PC version, as if the game we have now is not fully Minecraft. But in reality, we've had the true Minecraft experience from the beginning. I got the game a month after it came out, and I do not in any way feel that Beta 1.6.6 (TU1) is any less Minecraft than TU9 or TU10 or PC version 1.2.3 or even the PC version today. Minecraft is what you make of it, so if you keep believing that this version of Minecraft isn't as good as the PC and that it should change as soon as possible, the Xbox version will always fall short and you will likely never be able to enjoy it until it becomes like the PC.
Time, effort, the electricity to run the computers, water for the loo, roof over their heads, all that costs MONEY.
Even then... At $20 a copy, and 6 million copies sold comes out to somewhere around $120,000,000. Not to mention whatever 4J is being paid by Microsoft/Mojang to work on Minecraft Xbox 360 Edition.
I'm pretty sure they can afford to easily keep everything going.
I cringe at the thought of how much support i give notch and his company. We keep the forums active, we buy the game, we buy the skins. BUY SKINS! The PC version doesn't even make you have to buy skins to play an rpg world with your friends. Also why even bother playing with 7 other friends in your world when half the time everyone is complaining about chunks not loading and always lagging out. When you lag out then you need to re chuck. Its terrible, please invest some of the profit you receive and invest into us. WE, THE PEOPLE!
Never had much of a lagging or world loading problem when playing with friends. I think people forget what role your internet plays when gaming online. even if you pay for the "best" internet. Even Comcast's "best" internet is laughable to what it could be if they put effort into it.
Even then... At $20 a copy, and 6 million copies sold comes out to somewhere around $120,000,000. Not to mention whatever 4J is being paid by Microsoft/Mojang to work on Minecraft Xbox 360 Edition.
And instead of charging for new content.
They are giving it away for free.
Can you tell me how many of the $60 price point games do that?
I just have to say, this community could do with a change, in this thread I see someone simply trying to voice his opinion, and everyone else coming back and attacking him for it, isn't this the whole point of a FORUM? It seems when people with extended vocabularies start speaking, we are whining, I do not agree with everything he says, but he dose make some valid points, I would like to see less buggy updates, and this issue could be solved by adding a few people to 4J's payroll, or I would not mind waiting 6+ months for a single TU that catches us up to where we are supposed to be (1.2.3) but the decision is 4J's and Microsoft's, as a consumer, I have voiced my opinion, now it is up to them to decide to listen, I can scream in there face all day but, in the end, THEY will still make the final call, not me.
on a side note, we as a community need to stop assuming that voicing an opinion is arguing/whining, remember when you assume you make a DONKEY outta U and ME.
Here is the thing alot of people don't understand about xbox minecraft. The xbox just isn't powerful enough to run minecraft. Which is why the worlds are only 864x864 instead of being endless. Most desktops that run minecraft have around 8gb of ram which is 16 times more than the 360 has at only 512mb. Another thing is the processor. Although not slow, but when compared to what is out now, it doesn't come close. Now the graphics card is what really hurts us. Xbox is running on an ATI xenos running at 10mb which is nothing compered to the 2gb or 2048mb of most computers now have. The xbox version isn't a direct port from pc but rather a completely different game. 4J has had to completely re-write the code for minecraft. Think about how long it took for pc minecraft to get where it is now. So for 4J to move all this over to xbox is going to take just as long. Now when the 720 comes out then it might be a direct port of the pc version because it will be able to handle it. Even though minecraft looks like a simple game its not. So to put this in the best way to understand it would be like trying to put Battlefield 3 on the original xbox.
Thank you, for being sensible in general.
Who knows maybe this thread had some attention to bring towards that. It never hurt me once to try though.
He's also right about the xbox only being able to handle so much, but the gamed code could be broken down a little I believe. I'm no expert but 128 x I think 800+ x 800+ Roughly broken down into a 3D picture can't really be that diffcult to send chunks back and forth. I agree we'll never do a lot of things like the computer can, but if minecraft realms becomes an option it will broaden the online aspect majorly.
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Thank you, for being sensible in general.
Who knows maybe this thread had some attention to bring towards that. It never hurt me once to try though.
He's also right about the xbox only being able to handle so much, but the gamed code could be broken down a little I believe. I'm no expert but 128 x I think 800+ x 800+ Roughly broken down into a 3D picture can't really be that diffcult to send chunks back and forth. I agree we'll never do a lot of things like the computer can, but if minecraft realms becomes an option it will broaden the online aspect majorly.
A friend of mine who is a programmer and who plays on the PC and monitors his connection continuously as he plays tells me that the amount of information being continually uploaded and downloaded in the PC version is extremely high... miuch higher than other games he plays.
As I understand it, Minecraft Realms is being made available on the PC for those players who would like a more intiment and secure sever environment for their worlds than large public servers and also to avoid the hassles of having to set up an actual server themselves. I believe the current player limit through Realms is 4 players.
A friend of mine who is a programmer and who plays on the PC and monitors his connection continuously as he plays tells me that the amount of information being continually uploaded and downloaded in the PC version is extremely high... miuch higher than other games he plays.
As I understand it, Minecraft Realms is being made available on the PC for those players who would like a more intiment and secure sever environment for their worlds than large public servers and also to avoid the hassles of having to set up an actual server themselves. I believe the current player limit through Realms is 4 players.
I'm not a programmer, and I'm shooting out of how it works in my head, which could be totally wrong. Every time I swing my sword, pickaxe, or any tool, break, or removing a block, starting and stopping redstone this sends a pack of data to the host, assuming I'm not the host. It also, on the xbox, carries a voice packet for group chatting. The way it seems to work, is actually taking your controls gestures and inputs and sending them to the host, then their console to load the data it receives and relay it back to me. This is how it seems to work, and as I said I'm ready to be wrong on this one. If this is how it works, wouldn't it make more sense to rather send and players x+y+z and direction with a literal pixel of data to send of what happened to the host, and the host to send the same out as he plays. This would seem to make way more sense to me.
Directed at realms,
I know BF3 is a totally different game, but they can host 24 people on a rented server. All equal in connection(depending on location). I know this is still in development but I don't understand how even within a server basis, 8 people should be our max. There has to be a way to make this more efficient. Would love some thoughts on this.
-Thanks for reading!
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Can you tell me how many of the $60 price point games do that?
What game started as a beta on PC by a handful of people, had 16 million forum subscribers at it's first official launch, and still runs under 50 people in a company with over $250,000,000 in revenue.
This is why I started this thread.
This game has taken it's own path, unlike 90% of other games, and I would like to see it continue to stay where it ranks. Without a heavy user influenced future, get ready for another COD fan-spree for the same thing everytime series or Cardboard Mario! Minecraft is doing things that no game has ever done, and I think that's what it makes your point invalid.
-Thanks for reading!
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Check out my Youtube Channel! Bringing you Tutorials, Massive Builds, and the Occasional Let's Play Minecraft!
I'm not a programmer, and I'm shooting out of how it works in my head, which could be totally wrong. Every time I swing my sword, pickaxe, or any tool, break, or removing a block, starting and stopping redstone this sends a pack of data to the host, assuming I'm not the host. It also, on the xbox, carries a voice packet for group chatting. The way it seems to work, is actually taking your controls gestures and inputs and sending them to the host, then their console to load the data it receives and relay it back to me. This is how it seems to work, and as I said I'm ready to be wrong on this one. If this is how it works, wouldn't it make more sense to rather send and players x+y+z and direction with a literal pixel of data to send of what happened to the host, and the host to send the same out as he plays. This would seem to make way more sense to me.
Directed at realms,
I know BF3 is a totally different game, but they can host 24 people on a rented server. All equal in connection(depending on location). I know this is still in development but I don't understand how even within a server basis, 8 people should be our max. There has to be a way to make this more efficient. Would love some thoughts on this.
-Thanks for reading!
... and what my friend is saying is that, even on the PC and even when he is the host server, there is a boatload of data being transmitted continually in MC. You're assumption is that 4J can reduce the code for this over and above what the PC has done sufficiently to make an appreciable difference in things like world size. What my friend is saying is that, perhaps, 4J have already done as much as can be done with a game that transmits huge amounts of data on the PC. 4J have already reduced the draw distance to a point where people complain about overrunning the rendering of the terrain as they move through the world. Dividing the data into even smaller chunk loads would, as I understand him, likely mean yet another shortening of this draw distance, which would probably not go down very well with players.
Without knowing for sure what 4J have already done to facilitate the smooth running of this particular game (which appears to consume large amounts of processing power and RAM on the PC), you can't really say that more can be done. The only people that are in any position to know whether or not more can be done work for 4J.
... and what my friend is saying is that, even on the PC and even when he is the host server, there is a boatload of data being transmitted continually in MC. You're assumption is that 4J can reduce the code for this over and above what the PC has done sufficiently to make an appreciable difference in things like world size. What my friend is saying is that, perhaps, 4J have already done as much as can be done with a game that transmits huge amounts of data on the PC. 4J have already reduced the draw distance to a point where people complain about overrunning the rendering of the terrain as they move through the world. Dividing the data into even smaller chunk loads would, as I understand him, likely mean yet another shortening of this draw distance, which would probably not go down very well with players.
Without knowing for sure what 4J have already done to facilitate the smooth running of this particular game (which appears to consume large amounts of processing power and RAM on the PC), you can't really say that more can be done. The only people that are in any position to know whether or not more can be done work for 4J.
As I said I could be way wrong about this, It just seems there would be a better way, for instance to actually download a temp file of the world your joining. Sounds like a longshot, but how many worls are you going to play in in 24 hours, and how long would it take to download a map via xbox. Minutes that would save you hours.
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As I said I could be way wrong about this, It just seems there would be a better way, for instance to actually download a temp file of the world your joining. Sounds like a longshot, but how many worls are you going to play in in 24 hours, and how long would it take to download a map via xbox. Minutes that would save you hours.
If you have each player on different Xboxes download an individual temp file that their Xbox reads and writes to, how would you go about coordinating interactive changes to the world by two players playing online with each other on different Xboxes? Each player's changes have to upload to the other players' Xboxes in as closed to "real time" as can be achieved (i.e. with as little lag as possible) or else how would I see what blocks you might be mining beside me and how would you see what blocks I might be placing beside you?
TU10 is in Microsoft Certification testing. <--Yesterday 4/12
Time, effort, the electricity to run the computers, water for the loo, roof over their heads, all that costs MONEY.
I cringe at the thought of how much support i give notch and his company. We keep the forums active, we buy the game, we buy the skins. BUY SKINS! The PC version doesn't even make you have to buy skins to play an rpg world with your friends. Also why even bother playing with 7 other friends in your world when half the time everyone is complaining about chunks not loading and always lagging out. When you lag out then you need to re chuck. Its terrible, please invest some of the profit you receive and invest into us. WE, THE PEOPLE!
Xbox Live and the Xbox 360 are not and have never been an open source environment. The PC is and if that is what certain users in this community want to partake in, they are absolutely free to do so... on the PC. Microsoft controls Xbox Live, not 4J and not Mojang, so riding 4J to "step aside" to allow the community to step in is, IMO, just plain silly.
You think it's a problem that TU10 is dedicated to fixing bugs of the previous version? Did you know that the PC version 1.2.3 was dedicated to fixing the bugs in 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 ? Also, in 1.5, they fixed 115 different bugs. TU9 had bugs, just like any PC update. Some of them even crashed the game, unlike the bugs in this update. You can still play the game with bad lighting (sure, it's not enjoyable, but you don't have to reset your Xbox when it happens), and there's a workaround for the Xbox live Silver bug.
The only reason these bugs haven't been fixed yet is Microsoft's painfully long update process. If 4j studios was "in control", then we would be receiving much more frequent updates and everybody would be happy. But even then, 4j studios is coding major versions of Minecraft faster than they were coded on the PC. On the PC, it took 2 months after 1.0 (our TU7) was released to release 1.1, while after our TU8 (which was a bug fix for TU7, during which time they were likely not working on a lot of stuff from TU9 [yes I know they were working a little on the End during that time period]) it took 2 months to release, accounting for Microsoft Cert testing and the fact that they were adding the End, climbable vines, item frames, and other things along with it (I may be wrong on the time period for TU9).
You all ask for the Xbox to be like the PC version, that we should "catch up" to the PC version, as if the game we have now is not fully Minecraft. But in reality, we've had the true Minecraft experience from the beginning. I got the game a month after it came out, and I do not in any way feel that Beta 1.6.6 (TU1) is any less Minecraft than TU9 or TU10 or PC version 1.2.3 or even the PC version today. Minecraft is what you make of it, so if you keep believing that this version of Minecraft isn't as good as the PC and that it should change as soon as possible, the Xbox version will always fall short and you will likely never be able to enjoy it until it becomes like the PC.
I'm pretty sure they can afford to easily keep everything going.
Never had much of a lagging or world loading problem when playing with friends. I think people forget what role your internet plays when gaming online. even if you pay for the "best" internet. Even Comcast's "best" internet is laughable to what it could be if they put effort into it.
And instead of charging for new content.
They are giving it away for free.
Can you tell me how many of the $60 price point games do that?
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Retired StaffThank you, for being sensible in general.
Who knows maybe this thread had some attention to bring towards that. It never hurt me once to try though.
He's also right about the xbox only being able to handle so much, but the gamed code could be broken down a little I believe. I'm no expert but 128 x I think 800+ x 800+ Roughly broken down into a 3D picture can't really be that diffcult to send chunks back and forth. I agree we'll never do a lot of things like the computer can, but if minecraft realms becomes an option it will broaden the online aspect majorly.
A friend of mine who is a programmer and who plays on the PC and monitors his connection continuously as he plays tells me that the amount of information being continually uploaded and downloaded in the PC version is extremely high... miuch higher than other games he plays.
As I understand it, Minecraft Realms is being made available on the PC for those players who would like a more intiment and secure sever environment for their worlds than large public servers and also to avoid the hassles of having to set up an actual server themselves. I believe the current player limit through Realms is 4 players.
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Retired StaffI'm not a programmer, and I'm shooting out of how it works in my head, which could be totally wrong. Every time I swing my sword, pickaxe, or any tool, break, or removing a block, starting and stopping redstone this sends a pack of data to the host, assuming I'm not the host. It also, on the xbox, carries a voice packet for group chatting. The way it seems to work, is actually taking your controls gestures and inputs and sending them to the host, then their console to load the data it receives and relay it back to me. This is how it seems to work, and as I said I'm ready to be wrong on this one. If this is how it works, wouldn't it make more sense to rather send and players x+y+z and direction with a literal pixel of data to send of what happened to the host, and the host to send the same out as he plays. This would seem to make way more sense to me.
Directed at realms,
I know BF3 is a totally different game, but they can host 24 people on a rented server. All equal in connection(depending on location). I know this is still in development but I don't understand how even within a server basis, 8 people should be our max. There has to be a way to make this more efficient. Would love some thoughts on this.
-Thanks for reading!
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Retired StaffWhat game started as a beta on PC by a handful of people, had 16 million forum subscribers at it's first official launch, and still runs under 50 people in a company with over $250,000,000 in revenue.
This is why I started this thread.
This game has taken it's own path, unlike 90% of other games, and I would like to see it continue to stay where it ranks. Without a heavy user influenced future, get ready for another COD fan-spree for the same thing everytime series or Cardboard Mario! Minecraft is doing things that no game has ever done, and I think that's what it makes your point invalid.
-Thanks for reading!
... and what my friend is saying is that, even on the PC and even when he is the host server, there is a boatload of data being transmitted continually in MC. You're assumption is that 4J can reduce the code for this over and above what the PC has done sufficiently to make an appreciable difference in things like world size. What my friend is saying is that, perhaps, 4J have already done as much as can be done with a game that transmits huge amounts of data on the PC. 4J have already reduced the draw distance to a point where people complain about overrunning the rendering of the terrain as they move through the world. Dividing the data into even smaller chunk loads would, as I understand him, likely mean yet another shortening of this draw distance, which would probably not go down very well with players.
Without knowing for sure what 4J have already done to facilitate the smooth running of this particular game (which appears to consume large amounts of processing power and RAM on the PC), you can't really say that more can be done. The only people that are in any position to know whether or not more can be done work for 4J.
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Retired StaffAs I said I could be way wrong about this, It just seems there would be a better way, for instance to actually download a temp file of the world your joining. Sounds like a longshot, but how many worls are you going to play in in 24 hours, and how long would it take to download a map via xbox. Minutes that would save you hours.
If you have each player on different Xboxes download an individual temp file that their Xbox reads and writes to, how would you go about coordinating interactive changes to the world by two players playing online with each other on different Xboxes? Each player's changes have to upload to the other players' Xboxes in as closed to "real time" as can be achieved (i.e. with as little lag as possible) or else how would I see what blocks you might be mining beside me and how would you see what blocks I might be placing beside you?