I still play Ultima Online. Yes, it's still around. And yes, I still play it.
I won't lead you all down Amnesia Lane with my old man stories, but suffice to say Ultima Online, in its infancy, was notorious for griefing. You see, players could attack other players, despite huge gulfs in their level and equipment differences, leading to CONSTANT bullying and griefing.
But in a way, it did make sense to antagonize other players: you could take their stuff. In Minecraft, it seems silly to rob a player who is running the server. It's not like you are going to keep it or improve your own saved games by doing it. So it leaves the other motive: to make the other players unhappy.
Harlan Ellison once said there is an inexplicable thrill of just being a pain in somebody's ass for no reason at all. I see that happening a lot in online gaming. I really have never truly understood the payoff of causing a stranger unhappiness and spoiling his fun. Does it make you a bigger man? No it doesn't. Does it make you clever? Not particularly. Is it a fun break from reality to just be a total jerkass to someone you don't know without repercussion (as opposed to striding into a restaurant and knocking some dude's dinner to the floor and laughing -- which would probably get you a beating or worse)?
I still have never really understood what it proves.
I believe Alfred (Michael Caine) said it best. Some people truly just want to bring suffering, frustration, and unhappiness to others.
It happens in every video game I've ever played where people interact with one another. It's happened to me in EVE Online, Halo, Battlefield, etc, etc, etc. Some people just get their rocks off on making other people ed off and unhappy.
I think it's primarily for teh lols.They might not be as into the game as more hardcore people and thusly dont see the buildings as important or anything of value, so when they destroy it they dont see it as a big deal and your pain causes them great joy, such as if you played a practical joke.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
2/15/2011
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So alot of people have been speculating on why people grief, but from the sounds of them they don't actually participate in the griefing. I will be honest, I am a griefer, at first on the PC version, and than on the XBOX. I beleive ONE with the Block was spot on, it's freakin hilarious- and even more so on the xbox. The PC is very hard to grief, theres lots of plugins, protection, etc and it's a lot less personal. All you see is you getting banned, or if your lucky and got away with it their typing rage, which isn't nearly as rewarding as the xbox. In the xbox version, not only do you have to be extremley sneaky (as there can only be a max of 8 players) but you get to talk to the person in a party- hear their response. You also have to convince the griefed person to save, as the xbox does not automaticaly save, and this is where it is most challeging. The tactic I like to use is saying "hey man, im experiencing some lag, could you save it real quick?" (Not saving does not actually help with lag). While there down mining, and im lighting their house on fire, haha it's absolutely hilarious! I know im probably going to get vilifid for this,but it's true, and hell I can give some tips on how to avoid getting griefed if anyones interestec.
So alot of people have been speculating on why people grief, but from the sounds of them they don't actually participate in the griefing. I will be honest, I am a griefer, at first on the PC version, and than on the XBOX. I beleive ONE with the Block was spot on, it's freakin hilarious- and even more so on the xbox. The PC is very hard to grief, theres lots of plugins, protection, etc and it's a lot less personal. All you see is you getting banned, or if your lucky and got away with it their typing rage, which isn't nearly as rewarding as the xbox. In the xbox version, not only do you have to be extremley sneaky (as there can only be a max of 8 players) but you get to talk to the person in a party- hear their response. You also have to convince the griefed person to save, as the xbox does not automaticaly save, and this is where it is most challeging. The tactic I like to use is saying "hey man, im experiencing some lag, could you save it real quick?" (Not saving does not actually help with lag). While there down mining, and im lighting their house on fire, haha it's absolutely hilarious! I know im probably going to get vilifid for this,but it's true, and hell I can give some tips on how to avoid getting griefed if anyones interestec.
Jackass by nature, but too afraid to do anything in real life so they do it in a video game where they're safe behind a TV. That's why people grief, that and plain stupidity and immaturity.
So alot of people have been speculating on why people grief, but from the sounds of them they don't actually participate in the griefing. I will be honest, I am a griefer, at first on the PC version, and than on the XBOX. I beleive ONE with the Block was spot on, it's freakin hilarious- and even more so on the xbox. The PC is very hard to grief, theres lots of plugins, protection, etc and it's a lot less personal. All you see is you getting banned, or if your lucky and got away with it their typing rage, which isn't nearly as rewarding as the xbox. In the xbox version, not only do you have to be extremley sneaky (as there can only be a max of 8 players) but you get to talk to the person in a party- hear their response. You also have to convince the griefed person to save, as the xbox does not automaticaly save, and this is where it is most challeging. The tactic I like to use is saying "hey man, im experiencing some lag, could you save it real quick?" (Not saving does not actually help with lag). While there down mining, and im lighting their house on fire, haha it's absolutely hilarious! I know im probably going to get vilifid for this,but it's true, and hell I can give some tips on how to avoid getting griefed if anyones interestec.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Jackass by nature, but too afraid to do anything in real life so they do it in a video game where they're safe behind a TV. That's why people grief, that and plain stupidity and immaturity.
Haha lol see this is the EXACT reaction were going for! We like to see people rage, is funny! Say what you want, but thats the real and only reason why (at least I) grief, and it's not like I don't troll people in real life..at work I troll all the douchey prep-school kids who think there better than because I'm a public school boy, albeit I don't do anything rash that might get me fired, but it's still all fun! And honestly, griefing is probably the easiest thing to prevent, haha ever.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Tip #1 - Don't play with you.
And yes thats good advice! Don't play with me...or hell if you want to be even safer don't play with any stranger, or disable fire spread +tnt! Its so easy to avoid being griefed its ridiculous lolol
I personally only grief when I see people cheating in some method or another, whether it be by using mob farms in survival to boost leaderboard kills or I catch someone stealing from someone.
Of course, I usually inflict paranoya and severe irritation over any physical damage in-game.
I personally only grief when I see people cheating in some method or another, whether it be by using mob farms in survival to boost leaderboard kills or I catch someone stealing from someone.
Of course, I usually inflict paranoya and severe irritation over any physical damage in-game.
Is that really cheating though. I mean if it's in survival it's not like they can just pop up a XP farm. I'm currently working on an XP farm and it's taking me a loooooooong time lol
Haha lol see this is the EXACT reaction were going for! We like to see people rage, is funny! Say what you want, but thats the real and only reason why (at least I) grief, and it's not like I don't troll people in real life..at work I troll all the douchey prep-school kids who think there better than because I'm a public school boy, albeit I don't do anything rash that might get me fired, but it's still all fun! And honestly, griefing is probably the easiest thing to prevent, haha ever.
Well I do appreciate your honesty.
But it sounds like the root of your aggression are the pre-prep jerks, and you're just paying it forward to people who cannot retaliate. Why don't you cut out the middleman and retaliate against the jerks in your life, face to face?
People grief because in their real world life they feel powerless in some way. Maybe their dad beats them or they are ridiculed in school as a loser. By griefing they feel a sense of power that they lack in real life. In xbox it's easy to just ban such people. I don't just ban griefers I ban friends of griefers as well unless they drop griefers from their friends list.
The only time I "troll" is with my friends. We play fun little tricks on each other. I don't grief, because I know how upsetting this can be. I set up a piston clock with in it to make noise under my friends house. A harmless little prank we can have a laugh about.
Well, it's a form of bullying. In fact, I think it's almost nerd-exclusive (but not always of course)... because nerds are the target of a lot of aggression, and here's a way they can bully other people without having to be physically imposing or risking a retaliatory beating.
As a side tangent, I think its funny how the media is all over "bullying" lately. Like it's something new. As someone who has been a bully AND bullied, I can tell you why it's popular. It's very empowering to have someone under your power. It's a boost to your own self esteem (cheap as it may be). If you're feeling bad about something you cannot control, punishing someone else for no reason and making them feel bad is a salve.
But the reasons to me are the same. If you make someone else upset or unhappy, it gives you a sense of power. And it's intoxicating, stupid as it may be.
The only time I "troll" is with my friends. We play fun little tricks on each other. I don't grief, because I know how upsetting this can be. I set up a piston clock with in it to make noise under my friends house. A harmless little prank we can have a laugh about.
THIS is the fine line. Pranking friends is not the same as griefing. Calling my drinking pal a big dumb lummox is not real malice because he knows I have respect and esteem for him, and it's actually a form of bonding.
But being a jerk to someone for no reason, simply to ruin their day, is not bonding. Because there is zero respect involved.
There is a diffrence between trolling and griefing.
Trolling is mostly harmless besides aggravating someone. Griefing is causing actual lasting physical harm to someones world.
That being said, I personally think these kids have too much anger and nowhere to let it out. Why not let it out against people you'll never meet? Pretty much saves you from any retaliation... Oh, and I'm going to say it right now. Its selfish, immature, and cowardly. And anyone who behaves like this on my server will never come back.
There is a diffrence between trolling and griefing.
Agreed. Although they are both antisocial online behavior....
Trolling is posting outright inflammatory or provocative things in order to get people angry and riled up. I still am amazed how many people bite: the only way to deal with a troll is to ignore him. If you strike back, he wins. Regardless on how you do it, you bit the hook by allowing him to control you.
Griefing is going out of your way to antagonize another player's gameplay experience. Shooting another player in a deathmatch is not griefing, but blocking his sniper's view and setting off explosives to sabotage his cover IS.
Honestly, one of the most grieftastic experiences I ever had was playing Red Dead Redemption, multiplayer. Ironically, on the "FRIENDLY" setting. Where players could still run you down, shoot out your horse and use mechanics to make your life difficult (and not in a legit gameplay sense). I swear to God NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY was doing ANYTHING but tormenting fellow players on the six times I tried it.
A common theme of griefers to excuse their behavior is that they are roleplaying villains.
Yeah right. Roleplaying an [HEEEEE-HAW]hole isn't a stretch for these people. Real method actors.
I won't lead you all down Amnesia Lane with my old man stories, but suffice to say Ultima Online, in its infancy, was notorious for griefing. You see, players could attack other players, despite huge gulfs in their level and equipment differences, leading to CONSTANT bullying and griefing.
But in a way, it did make sense to antagonize other players: you could take their stuff. In Minecraft, it seems silly to rob a player who is running the server. It's not like you are going to keep it or improve your own saved games by doing it. So it leaves the other motive: to make the other players unhappy.
Harlan Ellison once said there is an inexplicable thrill of just being a pain in somebody's ass for no reason at all. I see that happening a lot in online gaming. I really have never truly understood the payoff of causing a stranger unhappiness and spoiling his fun. Does it make you a bigger man? No it doesn't. Does it make you clever? Not particularly. Is it a fun break from reality to just be a total jerkass to someone you don't know without repercussion (as opposed to striding into a restaurant and knocking some dude's dinner to the floor and laughing -- which would probably get you a beating or worse)?
I still have never really understood what it proves.
I believe Alfred (Michael Caine) said it best. Some people truly just want to bring suffering, frustration, and unhappiness to others.
It happens in every video game I've ever played where people interact with one another. It's happened to me in EVE Online, Halo, Battlefield, etc, etc, etc. Some people just get their rocks off on making other people ed off and unhappy.
Jackass by nature, but too afraid to do anything in real life so they do it in a video game where they're safe behind a TV. That's why people grief, that and plain stupidity and immaturity.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Tip #1 - Don't play with you.
Of course, I usually inflict paranoya and severe irritation over any physical damage in-game.
Stay fluffy~
Im with u on tht is they start it then its fair game
Is that really cheating though. I mean if it's in survival it's not like they can just pop up a XP farm. I'm currently working on an XP farm and it's taking me a loooooooong time lol
And they receive this "pleasure" without any real consequences.
Upsetting people is just what they like to do. I can't tell you how much I hate these people. And they are everywhere.
Well I do appreciate your honesty.
But it sounds like the root of your aggression are the pre-prep jerks, and you're just paying it forward to people who cannot retaliate. Why don't you cut out the middleman and retaliate against the jerks in your life, face to face?
As a side tangent, I think its funny how the media is all over "bullying" lately. Like it's something new. As someone who has been a bully AND bullied, I can tell you why it's popular. It's very empowering to have someone under your power. It's a boost to your own self esteem (cheap as it may be). If you're feeling bad about something you cannot control, punishing someone else for no reason and making them feel bad is a salve.
But the reasons to me are the same. If you make someone else upset or unhappy, it gives you a sense of power. And it's intoxicating, stupid as it may be.
THIS is the fine line. Pranking friends is not the same as griefing. Calling my drinking pal a big dumb lummox is not real malice because he knows I have respect and esteem for him, and it's actually a form of bonding.
But being a jerk to someone for no reason, simply to ruin their day, is not bonding. Because there is zero respect involved.
Trolling is mostly harmless besides aggravating someone. Griefing is causing actual lasting physical harm to someones world.
That being said, I personally think these kids have too much anger and nowhere to let it out. Why not let it out against people you'll never meet? Pretty much saves you from any retaliation... Oh, and I'm going to say it right now. Its selfish, immature, and cowardly. And anyone who behaves like this on my server will never come back.
Agreed. Although they are both antisocial online behavior....
Trolling is posting outright inflammatory or provocative things in order to get people angry and riled up. I still am amazed how many people bite: the only way to deal with a troll is to ignore him. If you strike back, he wins. Regardless on how you do it, you bit the hook by allowing him to control you.
Griefing is going out of your way to antagonize another player's gameplay experience. Shooting another player in a deathmatch is not griefing, but blocking his sniper's view and setting off explosives to sabotage his cover IS.
Honestly, one of the most grieftastic experiences I ever had was playing Red Dead Redemption, multiplayer. Ironically, on the "FRIENDLY" setting. Where players could still run you down, shoot out your horse and use mechanics to make your life difficult (and not in a legit gameplay sense). I swear to God NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY was doing ANYTHING but tormenting fellow players on the six times I tried it.
A common theme of griefers to excuse their behavior is that they are roleplaying villains.
Yeah right. Roleplaying an [HEEEEE-HAW]hole isn't a stretch for these people. Real method actors.