So we all know that 4J has mentioned that they were looking into 'rentable servers'. And we know that this takes time, as the amount of channels that companies need to traverse can really slow things down.
What i'am suggesting is why not 'release' the software for us to use and 'server' our own. This should in theory allow much bigger maps, and though there are some hurdles that would need to be addressed overall it should be a much better experience for diehard xbox MC fans.
Usually when setting up any type of server like this on PC's you need to provide it a 'port' to listen on, and this is really the only big problem i see as how do you let your 'friends' know which port to connect to. The solution is that the XBOX version needs to add a new main menu option for connecting to 'joe blows server' at port 8192 or whatever. Which i dunno is possible to do via the Xbox due to MS third party server restrictions. However from a single player point of view it should be totally doable because media software like tveristy and others can 'send' data to the xbox once a connection is established.
Hopefully 4J takes a peek at this thread and can give us some feedback as to the feasibility to this. I think its a excellent idea.
Please provide feedback in a constructive and non-bashing manner. Provide facts and not 'hear-say'.
I think an option to host a dedicated server with your 360 would be an easier option. In Counter Strike for the original Xbox, you could make your Xbox a dedicated host. So ALL your Xbox's resources were dedicated to serving the others, and you didn't have the option to play.
If they did that with the 360, it would free up some of the RAM and Processor to possibly handle larger maps, more people, more fun. I have 4 usable 360s in my house, 3 of which are in regular use, 1 still in a box since the move months ago, so I'd be on it.
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I think an option to host a dedicated server with your 360 would be an easier option. In Counter Strike for the original Xbox, you could make your Xbox a dedicated host. So ALL your Xbox's resources were dedicated to serving the others, and you didn't have the option to play.
If they did that with the 360, it would free up some of the RAM and Processor to possibly handle larger maps, more people, more fun. I have 4 usable 360s in my house, 3 of which are in regular use, 1 still in a box since the move months ago, so I'd be on it.
How many people do you think actually own more than one Xbox 360?
I only have one, so that is most definitely not an option I ever want to see. If they're going to make something for dedicated servers, it need to be something everyone can do, not a select few.
How many people do you think actually own more than one Xbox 360?
I only have one, so that is most definitely not an option I ever want to see. If they're going to make something for dedicated servers, it need to be something everyone can do, not a select few.
I own so many because of my kids, and general laziness. Most of my friends own more than one, but I know mostly adults. Xbox in the bedroom, Xbox in the living room. Or in my case, Xbox in my and girlfriends room, one in the kids room, one in the living room, and one I had in the basement at the last house for party/big group entertainment purposes.
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I own 4 xbox's but would much rather have a the software for my PC since at least then we could use some type of GUI and configure it with more options bells and whistles then having to wait for certification for updates to xbox server software.
Also I think as someone already mentioned many people aren't going to 'set aside' one xbox just to host MC. Many of us have pc's that could easilly run such software and continue to at least use the pc for other things.
I own 4 xbox's but would much rather have a the software for my PC since at least then we could use some type of GUI and configure it with more options bells and whistles then having to wait for certification for updates to xbox server software.
Also I think as someone already mentioned many people aren't going to 'set aside' one xbox just to host MC. Many of us have pc's that could easilly run such software and continue to at least use the pc for other things.
The only reason I don't agree is every time a developer has made a bridge between platforms, there's always a major exploit found, and huge issues caused. It'd take some time to develop as well whereas the dedicated server wouldn't need a completely new system built for the PC, then for the Xbox. With the 720 being announced this year, it'd be the first waste of time they got into.
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Also, I'm soon going to start 'World 4' view my World 3 via my YouTube. Best Survival Map you will EVER See.
I own so many because of my kids, and general laziness. Most of my friends own more than one, but I know mostly adults. Xbox in the bedroom, Xbox in the living room. Or in my case, Xbox in my and girlfriends room, one in the kids room, one in the living room, and one I had in the basement at the last house for party/big group entertainment purposes.
Glad you have so many. 5 million plus people have bought Minecraft on the Xbox 360. How many do you think own more than one Xbox 360? None of my friends, all adults, own more than one.
where did 4J say they where looking into rentable servers ?
still dont see how that could make map sizes bigger ?
Minecon and their twitter.
Something like rentable servers would lead to larger worlds because it would allow them to take the server client off of the Xbox 360, meaning that it would no longer be taking up the RAM it uses.
World sizes are directly related to the xbox's internal ram. By removing the world from the xbox and placing it on a server (aka your pc) and streaming chunks from it directly how the pc version does more or less. This means that world sizes could in thory be as big as pc's.
This does pose a problem though, as maps would need to be changed, and a few other minor things.
In respects to the dude that said keep the server Xbox, I'm kinda against this for 2 reasons. First is that we need to go through certification for each update, 2nd is that again we are limitied in options and barely no one is willing to 'set aside' a xbox just to host MC, also again memory limitations will play a roll sooner or later.
I don't know all the hurdles that would be involved in allowing us to host our own worlds off our PC's but i'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Hopefully if we can get enough support going here in this thread we might hear from 4J and get thier input on the matter.
World sizes are directly related to the xbox's internal ram. By removing the world from the xbox and placing it on a server (aka your pc) and streaming chunks from it directly how the pc version does more or less. This means that world sizes could in thory be as big as pc's.
This does pose a problem though, as maps would need to be changed, and a few other minor things.
In respects to the dude that said keep the server Xbox, I'm kinda against this for 2 reasons. First is that we need to go through certification for each update, 2nd is that again we are limitied in options and barely no one is willing to 'set aside' a xbox just to host MC, also again memory limitations will play a roll sooner or later.
I don't know all the hurdles that would be involved in allowing us to host our own worlds off our PC's but i'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Hopefully if we can get enough support going here in this thread we might hear from 4J and get thier input on the matter.
Have you ever coded a game before though? Or cracked a game on a jtag? To make a cross platform with proper security would take even the best companies over a year or 2 to perfect to the point of no exploits. Then they release it (Portal, Shadowrun, King Kong.) 5 minutes later, the PS3 is hacked to shreds again. Shadowrun, the players on the pc could force all kinds of glitches to the 360 players, and run lite mods. King Kong: Led to the first Kernel exploit and the 360 being hacked to Run Linux.
Most FPS companies don't do it because the PC Gamers ALWAYS win against console gamers. They've all been considering it and testing it, but none go through with it. So there's not even companies to go to for support on it. Some games have gotten away with it, but it's only because its not a famous game.
Your asking for a lot of work and time, it seems easy because of Elements already in the game, and what the 2 versions are capable of, but trust me, its A LOT of work. It could be done without security checks fairly quickly, but that may result in the death of the Xbox 360. Don't forget, Xbox 720 being announced this year, its right around the corner. I was just suggesting a quick fix that may be able to provide something closer to the PC version.
(Below this line, everything in my post is mostly guessing based on facts/experience I have)
If they spent enough money on proper RSA keys to guard their files, the could possibly distribute a PC pack to do it without any exploits, and an update to the 360 game. RSA keys are millions each I believe. (this part of the post is all speculation/guessing based on coding I've seen) Halo 3 maps are able to be modded with the exact same difficulty as Halo 2 maps, except the code resigning them is an RSA key. Which is thousands of bytes long and mathematically bound not to be cracked in our lifetimes. So all the options/hacks are there and ready to be used, as long as you can crack that code with security better than your local bank. BUT JTAGs are designed to run unsigned code, so for that hour or 2 their able to be online before banned, they could do some damage. It can't just be a checksum because those are easily debugged via XeDKs (Dev Kits.) Its all tricky when crossing platforms. (As I said, this part is all guessing)
Yeah I can't wait for some work around I own 3 boxes soon to be 4 this weekend. and I have one dedicated as a MC "server" It's pretty reliable but in the end it's simply taking up One usable player slot, and well it's a whole freakin' xbox just sitting there, It can go for at least 48 hrs at a time that i've let it run, trying to do more tests in how long it can hold up... but baby steps!
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Yeah I can't wait for some work around I own 3 boxes soon to be 4 this weekend. and I have one dedicated as a MC "server" It's pretty reliable but in the end it's simply taking up One usable player slot, and well it's a whole freakin' xbox just sitting there, It can go for at least 48 hrs at a time that i've let it run, trying to do more tests in how long it can hold up... but baby steps!
Ouch, I hope it's a old xbox you use! Lol, that thing must have cardio like a triathlon champ.
It'd be awesome if they implemented this, but GoT_GaMe pointed out out some very good points. It's one heck of a security risk.
Have you ever coded a game before though? Or cracked a game on a jtag? To make a cross platform with proper security would take even the best companies over a year or 2 to perfect to the point of no exploits. Then they release it (Portal, Shadowrun, King Kong.) 5 minutes later, the PS3 is hacked to shreds again. Shadowrun, the players on the pc could force all kinds of glitches to the 360 players, and run lite mods. King Kong: Led to the first Kernel exploit and the 360 being hacked to Run Linux.
Acutally I was lead on GBL a TA server, I also wrote a web based game called galactic wars. where users designed thier own ships ran for over 2 years.
Now by your accounts if you want a super secure server then yeah its gona take time, but were talking about opening a port and listening for traffic that is in some 'expected' protocal. You seem to be bashing this quite hard are you that dead set on having things remain the same and not looking at expanding to something better in the long run that your closed minded views are clouding the future? Seriously now stop nit picking and start helping or get the hell outa this thread.and furthermore its not alot of work, they could easilly grab the minecraft pc server and port it, its a tidbit next to the client. Hell if they want release the damn commication protocals and add a option to allow it to connect to some port and i'll write the damn thing myself.
Why would u ever want people on yer xbox world while u r not there...? We need way more host options before even thinking of servers. Servers are kind of a pc thing anyways. Xbox has an advantage over pc because you dont have to worry about ip addresses ,ports and passwords. Lets keep the two separate.
Servers have way more options. That the beauty of it. With a server you can mark areas open to all, claim areas, mark areas that are restricted and have certain privs and so on. damn don't any of you play the pc version? Have our own server would allow you to do scripts for stores, automatting areans and much much much more. You can tag or own objects as well and owned objects only work for the owner and or admins.
You can view who screwed with an object see an objects history and so on. Theres tons of host options in the server.
Acutally I was lead on GBL a TA server, I also wrote a web based game called galactic wars. where users designed thier own ships ran for over 2 years.
Now by your accounts if you want a super secure server then yeah its gona take time, but were talking about opening a port and listening for traffic that is in some 'expected' protocal. You seem to be bashing this quite hard are you that dead set on having things remain the same and not looking at expanding to something better in the long run that your closed minded views are clouding the future? Seriously now stop nit picking and start helping or get the hell outa this thread.
and furthermore its not alot of work, they could easilly grab the minecraft pc server and port it, its a tidbit next to the client. Hell if they want release the damn commication protocals and add a option to allow it to connect to some port and i'll write the damn thing myself.
I'm talking about risks from within the Xbox 360, not the PC lol. Server Side games are secure because you don't have the raw file on your HDD to analyze for exploits. Do you know anything about the Xbox 360? I've been in the modding/hacking community for years now. Its not the PC side we have to worry about as much, its the fact that the 360 was not set up with its own security to port to other platforms lol.
We're on 2 different pages here. The PC is never fully secure, but it would open the flood gates for jtags to get online again, or possibly people getting into Xbox Live servers through the exploit.
Plus, think logically, do you really want them to spend that much time on this when the new system is dropping this year or next? I'd rather them focus on making the full PC version for the 720, than trying to make the 360 version as close as it can be. Its either they do dedicated servers of their own, pay millions for a secure cross platform, or they do a quick fix that results in the death of the Xbox 360.
The PC version is written in java, we damn well know that the next console will include a full blown browser, of which java is needed. Meaning that the full version should run on the new xbox with nothing more the slight tweaks to get it to work with a controler. But I hear ya we all have the 600$ + dollars to run out on launch day which is probably sometime in november.
Lets all tell 4J now don't worry with anymroe updates we are happy with what we got and can play it as is till we move to the next console. Everyone of us here wants the new console when it launches with its 12+ titles and 600 or more price tag.
I'm sick of arguing with you mr know it all who really knows jack .
The PC version is written in java, we damn well know that the next console will include a full blown browser, of which java is needed. Meaning that the full version should run on the new xbox with nothing more the slight tweaks to get it to work with a controler. But I hear ya we all have the 600$ + dollars to run out on launch day which is probably sometime in november.
Lets all tell 4J now don't worry with anymroe updates we are happy with what we got and can play it as is till we move to the next console. Everyone of us here wants the new console when it launches with its 12+ titles and 600 or more price tag.
I'm sick of arguing with you mr know it all who really knows jack .
I was just posting with what I know from the 360s inner workings since I've successfully hacked so many games, and have seen so many hacks preformed. Some of what your saying is correct but you seem to be dead-set on it and won't see the facts that prevent it. I'm talking about Exploits in the Xbox 360 hardware, and Xbox 360s games security, your telling me about web clients on a PC. I agree that Dedicated servers provided by them would easily be the safest option. Giving us the tech to host those servers ourselves, not so much, nor would it be cheap if secured properly. Not to mention adding this to the list of updates/bugs their already working on would have them working on this until the day the Xbox 720 drops. The 720 is rumored to be running on the Windows 8 Kernel, so depending on how they did the 'packing' on the game, it will either be a quick fix to have it running for the new 'Operating System' so to speak, or it will need completely broken down and re-coded. Them handing out ways to connect your xbox to a server capable of altering a cache file on the xbox with proper resigning on the packages is just a bad idea. Editing the updates/cache files is how Modern Warfare 2 Lobbies were hosted. it would only be a matter of time before the client is modded to do other things (like every thing on the PC) unless they spent a large sum of money on extreme security. But why invest the time/money into something that big when the next generation is within sight?
I was actually enjoying the sharing of knowledge, but unfortunately, most people (small children) can't fathom things outside their realm of what they believe to be true. Or in this case, what they want to be true. Sometimes its the fear of the unknown, you clearly don't know anything about the Xbox 360 itself, so you reject all info on it. I'm sorry if you felt we were arguing or I was bashing your idea, I was just pointing out some of the facts that could have possibly been preventing it from already coming to pass.
Edit:
I'll bold this right here:
I support the idea of the rentable Servers they have secured I also support dedicated Xbox 360 Hosting I do not support them handing us a client to host from our own PC, to the Xbox.
Your knowledge, you haven't share jack , all you have done is bashed everything without any true facts. We already know that 4J was looking at rentable servers. WTF is the difference if we pcure that software and host our own saving us some bucks in the long run and making our worlds more enjoyable, but I guess that something you don't really give a rats ass about.
On one hand you say that its near impossible to do because of 'security concerns', which is kinda slap in the face to 4J more or less saying they can't do it (guess they need to hire you mr hacker). On the other hand your saying its ok but i wanna use my 'other xbox' to do the hosting (which kinda defeats the purpose in the first place since we are aiming for much bigger worlds and much better hosting options, and the xbox just isn't cut to do this. But your dead set against letting each user have the ability to setup their own server and host the game how they want with what options they want.
Nice point of view i must say, do me a favor mr hacker and got outa my thread.
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What i'am suggesting is why not 'release' the software for us to use and 'server' our own. This should in theory allow much bigger maps, and though there are some hurdles that would need to be addressed overall it should be a much better experience for diehard xbox MC fans.
Usually when setting up any type of server like this on PC's you need to provide it a 'port' to listen on, and this is really the only big problem i see as how do you let your 'friends' know which port to connect to. The solution is that the XBOX version needs to add a new main menu option for connecting to 'joe blows server' at port 8192 or whatever. Which i dunno is possible to do via the Xbox due to MS third party server restrictions. However from a single player point of view it should be totally doable because media software like tveristy and others can 'send' data to the xbox once a connection is established.
Hopefully 4J takes a peek at this thread and can give us some feedback as to the feasibility to this. I think its a excellent idea.
Please provide feedback in a constructive and non-bashing manner. Provide facts and not 'hear-say'.
If they did that with the 360, it would free up some of the RAM and Processor to possibly handle larger maps, more people, more fun. I have 4 usable 360s in my house, 3 of which are in regular use, 1 still in a box since the move months ago, so I'd be on it.
I only have one, so that is most definitely not an option I ever want to see. If they're going to make something for dedicated servers, it need to be something everyone can do, not a select few.
I own so many because of my kids, and general laziness. Most of my friends own more than one, but I know mostly adults. Xbox in the bedroom, Xbox in the living room. Or in my case, Xbox in my and girlfriends room, one in the kids room, one in the living room, and one I had in the basement at the last house for party/big group entertainment purposes.
Also I think as someone already mentioned many people aren't going to 'set aside' one xbox just to host MC. Many of us have pc's that could easilly run such software and continue to at least use the pc for other things.
The only reason I don't agree is every time a developer has made a bridge between platforms, there's always a major exploit found, and huge issues caused. It'd take some time to develop as well whereas the dedicated server wouldn't need a completely new system built for the PC, then for the Xbox. With the 720 being announced this year, it'd be the first waste of time they got into.
I can bet you that 4J would not go for your idea.
Something like rentable servers would lead to larger worlds because it would allow them to take the server client off of the Xbox 360, meaning that it would no longer be taking up the RAM it uses.
This does pose a problem though, as maps would need to be changed, and a few other minor things.
In respects to the dude that said keep the server Xbox, I'm kinda against this for 2 reasons. First is that we need to go through certification for each update, 2nd is that again we are limitied in options and barely no one is willing to 'set aside' a xbox just to host MC, also again memory limitations will play a roll sooner or later.
I don't know all the hurdles that would be involved in allowing us to host our own worlds off our PC's but i'm willing to bet that it wouldn't be that big a deal.
Hopefully if we can get enough support going here in this thread we might hear from 4J and get thier input on the matter.
Have you ever coded a game before though? Or cracked a game on a jtag? To make a cross platform with proper security would take even the best companies over a year or 2 to perfect to the point of no exploits. Then they release it (Portal, Shadowrun, King Kong.) 5 minutes later, the PS3 is hacked to shreds again. Shadowrun, the players on the pc could force all kinds of glitches to the 360 players, and run lite mods. King Kong: Led to the first Kernel exploit and the 360 being hacked to Run Linux.
Most FPS companies don't do it because the PC Gamers ALWAYS win against console gamers. They've all been considering it and testing it, but none go through with it. So there's not even companies to go to for support on it. Some games have gotten away with it, but it's only because its not a famous game.
Your asking for a lot of work and time, it seems easy because of Elements already in the game, and what the 2 versions are capable of, but trust me, its A LOT of work. It could be done without security checks fairly quickly, but that may result in the death of the Xbox 360. Don't forget, Xbox 720 being announced this year, its right around the corner. I was just suggesting a quick fix that may be able to provide something closer to the PC version.
(Below this line, everything in my post is mostly guessing based on facts/experience I have)
If they spent enough money on proper RSA keys to guard their files, the could possibly distribute a PC pack to do it without any exploits, and an update to the 360 game. RSA keys are millions each I believe. (this part of the post is all speculation/guessing based on coding I've seen) Halo 3 maps are able to be modded with the exact same difficulty as Halo 2 maps, except the code resigning them is an RSA key. Which is thousands of bytes long and mathematically bound not to be cracked in our lifetimes. So all the options/hacks are there and ready to be used, as long as you can crack that code with security better than your local bank. BUT JTAGs are designed to run unsigned code, so for that hour or 2 their able to be online before banned, they could do some damage. It can't just be a checksum because those are easily debugged via XeDKs (Dev Kits.) Its all tricky when crossing platforms. (As I said, this part is all guessing)
Ouch, I hope it's a old xbox you use! Lol, that thing must have cardio like a triathlon champ.
It'd be awesome if they implemented this, but GoT_GaMe pointed out out some very good points. It's one heck of a security risk.
Acutally I was lead on GBL a TA server, I also wrote a web based game called galactic wars. where users designed thier own ships ran for over 2 years.
Now by your accounts if you want a super secure server then yeah its gona take time, but were talking about opening a port and listening for traffic that is in some 'expected' protocal. You seem to be bashing this quite hard are you that dead set on having things remain the same and not looking at expanding to something better in the long run that your closed minded views are clouding the future? Seriously now stop nit picking and start helping or get the hell outa this thread.and furthermore its not alot of work, they could easilly grab the minecraft pc server and port it, its a tidbit next to the client. Hell if they want release the damn commication protocals and add a option to allow it to connect to some port and i'll write the damn thing myself.
You can view who screwed with an object see an objects history and so on. Theres tons of host options in the server.
I'm talking about risks from within the Xbox 360, not the PC lol. Server Side games are secure because you don't have the raw file on your HDD to analyze for exploits. Do you know anything about the Xbox 360? I've been in the modding/hacking community for years now. Its not the PC side we have to worry about as much, its the fact that the 360 was not set up with its own security to port to other platforms lol.
We're on 2 different pages here. The PC is never fully secure, but it would open the flood gates for jtags to get online again, or possibly people getting into Xbox Live servers through the exploit.
Plus, think logically, do you really want them to spend that much time on this when the new system is dropping this year or next? I'd rather them focus on making the full PC version for the 720, than trying to make the 360 version as close as it can be. Its either they do dedicated servers of their own, pay millions for a secure cross platform, or they do a quick fix that results in the death of the Xbox 360.
Lets all tell 4J now don't worry with anymroe updates we are happy with what we got and can play it as is till we move to the next console. Everyone of us here wants the new console when it launches with its 12+ titles and 600 or more price tag.
I'm sick of arguing with you mr know it all who really knows jack .
I was just posting with what I know from the 360s inner workings since I've successfully hacked so many games, and have seen so many hacks preformed. Some of what your saying is correct but you seem to be dead-set on it and won't see the facts that prevent it. I'm talking about Exploits in the Xbox 360 hardware, and Xbox 360s games security, your telling me about web clients on a PC. I agree that Dedicated servers provided by them would easily be the safest option. Giving us the tech to host those servers ourselves, not so much, nor would it be cheap if secured properly. Not to mention adding this to the list of updates/bugs their already working on would have them working on this until the day the Xbox 720 drops. The 720 is rumored to be running on the Windows 8 Kernel, so depending on how they did the 'packing' on the game, it will either be a quick fix to have it running for the new 'Operating System' so to speak, or it will need completely broken down and re-coded. Them handing out ways to connect your xbox to a server capable of altering a cache file on the xbox with proper resigning on the packages is just a bad idea. Editing the updates/cache files is how Modern Warfare 2 Lobbies were hosted. it would only be a matter of time before the client is modded to do other things (like every thing on the PC) unless they spent a large sum of money on extreme security. But why invest the time/money into something that big when the next generation is within sight?
I was actually enjoying the sharing of knowledge, but unfortunately, most people (small children) can't fathom things outside their realm of what they believe to be true. Or in this case, what they want to be true. Sometimes its the fear of the unknown, you clearly don't know anything about the Xbox 360 itself, so you reject all info on it. I'm sorry if you felt we were arguing or I was bashing your idea, I was just pointing out some of the facts that could have possibly been preventing it from already coming to pass.
Edit:
I'll bold this right here:
I support the idea of the rentable Servers they have secured
I also support dedicated Xbox 360 Hosting
I do not support them handing us a client to host from our own PC, to the Xbox.
On one hand you say that its near impossible to do because of 'security concerns', which is kinda slap in the face to 4J more or less saying they can't do it (guess they need to hire you mr hacker). On the other hand your saying its ok but i wanna use my 'other xbox' to do the hosting (which kinda defeats the purpose in the first place since we are aiming for much bigger worlds and much better hosting options, and the xbox just isn't cut to do this. But your dead set against letting each user have the ability to setup their own server and host the game how they want with what options they want.
Nice point of view i must say, do me a favor mr hacker and got outa my thread.