cRookie, this is a game feature decision to prevent players from using sleeping as a "reset" button on aggro mobs. Since sleeping actually skips time, sleeping through the night prevents mobs from spawning at night (they don't have time to spawn, notice that you wake up well after the sun is up and any mobs that did have a chance to spawn are burning). I presume the PC game designers chose it to be this way to prevent players from staying up half the night, killing aggro mobs, and then (when things got too hard) running home and skipping the rest of the night. It primarily prevents players from controlling the creeper population.
Odd, I seem to remember getting blown up by creepers in the morning quite often and hadn't stayed out at night. But I'm fairly noob so
Actually, not sure I understand how it prevents mobs from spawning. If you sleep through the night normally, mobs don't spawn at all? Is that cheating too? I think your post just confused me more! hehe
What's wrong with fighting only half the night? It's an all or nothing thing?
Yeah, I would expect it to be much smaller than 20 blocks, I was highballing.
I will say that it is very true that monsters can track through walls even if they don't react to you the way they normally would. the easiest way to prove this is to spend an evening in the tavern or library of a village and intentionally attract and aggro mob's attention. They will move around the edges of the building to get as close as possible to you regardless of whether there is a window they can see through or not.
Regardless, the big issue is the lack of a tip explaining why it's happening. that alone would help newer players understand when they're experiencing a bug versus actual game play features.
Hmm... Then that doesn't explain the problem that I was having...with beds that is. Since both places where I placed the bed were exactly the same distance from the enclave, which was roughly 2 blocks thick and on the second level between the 2 beds but out about 5 blocks... roughly... it is like they can track you from below, but not from above? That is my confusion on it.
1 thick wall makes sense, but 2 thick... hmm...and yet loose tracking when you go below them... O_o
Seems to me the system is a bit flawed... I just hope they improve the AI in a good way for easy normal hard. But all have a different level of tracking.
Of course what I am wondering about is it considered tracking when they don't see you at first? or only when they see you... That is what gets me... Like they spawn where line of sight is impossible to see unless they themselves dig toward the player. So are they suppose to initially track you upon spawn even if they have no LoS of you?
In my experience they only come towards you if they "see" you, but in my instance there was no way for the zombie to even see me since it was not above ground, but in the ground itself hidden away in that alcove. So i guess the real question is do the start tracking from LoS or just proximity...?
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My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
Well, I can't comment on design decisions, I'm just repeating what I've heard/read.
The way sleeping works, you actually skip ahead in game time to the next sunrise. For a little demonstration, put 64 sand in a furnance right before going to sleep and then check how many will have melted into glass when you get up. You'll find that it's no more than 4 or so (whereas, if you stayed up all night they would be done before the sunrise).
Ergo, the "time passed" while you slept didn't happen at all. Since it didn't, other things that happen at set intervals (like the mob spawn routine) don't have "time" to occur.
As for getting blown up by lurking creepers when you get up, a few mobs may have time to spawn during the "going to sleep" sequence (especially in areas with shade where it gets dark before the sun goes down). Since creepers can survive in sunlight (even though they won't spawn in bright light), it's not that uncommon for the only aggro mobs left after sleeping to be the odd creeper. If they happen to spawn close enough to you or wander into range before the time jump, they will "lock on" and track you. That means that the few precious seconds of wake up animation time and the time it takes for you to get to the front door might be enough to let them get the jump on you.
(Note: this is why it's important to light up the outside of your structures as well as the inside. - Aggro mobs spawn in the dark. Ergo having places around your structures that get dark quicker (shadows) as the sun goes down actually serve as mini-monster spawners because the system is looking for places to spawn monsters all the time and there will be a period of time where the only place they can spawn is in the shadow of your structure. Normally aggro mobs cannot spawn within a certain distance of you (I forget the radius), but most people build big enough structure that the external walls are outside the limit.)
In my experience they only come towards you if they "see" you, but in my instance there was no way for the zombie to even see me since it was not above ground, but in the ground itself hidden away in that alcove. So i guess the real question is do the start tracking from LoS or just proximity...?
uncertain - I have seen spiders track in on me through the roof of a building, even when they could never "see me." I don't know about other aggro mobs. You're probably on to something regarding 1 thick versus 2 think walls, I just don't know
I will agree that the system is buggy as hell right now. Some of it is "performance as intended" and some is not. The problem is we can't tell the instances apart!
Creepers will track you once you move within 16 blocks of them, regardless of line of sight. Spiders will also track you once within 16 blocks, once again regardless of line of sight (provided that either the spider spawned in an area with a light level less than 8 or is currently residing in an area with a light level less than 8, otherwise spiders are passive. Also, the radius for not being able to sleep in a bed if an aggro monster is nearby is most likely to be a multiple of 8, my guess is 16 blocks.
Well..hmm.. I guess that tells me that the ai needs some work. If there is a LoS type ai there already. If not that is the part that needs probably work on and all I can do is hope they get it worked out eventually.
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My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
Well..hmm.. I guess that tells me that the ai needs some work. If there is a LoS type ai there already. If not that is the part that needs probably work on and all I can do is hope they get it worked out eventually.
Actually, the way the creeper and spider track you is an intended mechanic, so I doubt we will see any change in that department, in fact most of the AI updates that have made it to the PC version actually improve certain enemies ability to track you through walls and navigate difficult terrain in order o get closer to you, the zombie in particular.
so on the pc, they can target and know you are behind a 2 block thick wall if not on the other side of a very thick wall? I am refering to the initial part, not the actual tracking. I am talking about the part where they take notice of you, Los. After that I can understand the tracking. And yes tracking itself is intended, that I understand. And the new moving around terrain i understand it once they have sight of you and have started tracking. What I am looking forward to if it ever happens is I guess the better word for it is Spotting AI, where yes on open terrain there is a proximity.
However LoS needs work in the AI script in my opinion, not tracking. Otherwise you mind as well scrap that ai as you will always be in danger even in a 1x1 room built yourself, as they will initially see you through walls and "start" tracking you. That is what I am referring to. When they spawn I know they don't just start immediately start tracking you, due to the fact they will just wander around aimlessly till they "spot" you. That was the problem I was having with beds in the first place, as they will start tracking you as soon as they spawn. If I wanted to play that sort of game I would put a zombie game in the disc drive.
I am not expecting the best LoS, but at least something so that beds are useful beyond setting spawn. Cause once they spot you which is suppose to be unlikely through a thick wall; or well the way I see it, they will continue to track... It is the initial thing that starts them to tracking you that concerns me... And mainly what is happening in my case, even though there is no way for that mob to possibly to see or have a route to get to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
so on the pc, they can target and know you are behind a 2 block thick wall if not on the other side of a very thick wall? I am refering to the initial part, not the actual tracking. I am talking about the part where they take notice of you, Los. After that I can understand the tracking. And yes tracking itself is intended, that I understand. And the new moving around terrain i understand it once they have sight of you and have started tracking. What I am looking forward to if it ever happens is I guess the better word for it is Spotting AI, where yes on open terrain there is a proximity.
However LoS needs work in the AI script in my opinion, not tracking. Otherwise you mind as well scrap that ai as you will always be in danger even in a 1x1 room built yourself, as they will initially see you through walls and "start" tracking you. That is what I am referring to. When they spawn I know they don't just start immediately start tracking you, due to the fact they will just wander around aimlessly till they "spot" you. That was the problem I was having with beds in the first place, as they will start tracking you as soon as they spawn. If I wanted to play that sort of game I would put a zombie game in the disc drive.
I am not expecting the best LoS, but at least something so that beds are useful beyond setting spawn. Cause once they spot you which is suppose to be unlikely through a thick wall; or well the way I see it, they will continue to track... It is the initial thing that starts them to tracking you that concerns me... And mainly what is happening in my case, even though there is no way for that mob to possibly to see or have a route to get to me.
The tracking is initiated by being within a 16 block radius of the mob (spiders and creepers), line of sight is not required. It can also be initiated by the mob wondering within a 16 block radius of the player. This mechanic is required for spiders and creepers to be a suitable threat, particularly with spiders in cave systems. Technically you can have 14 layers of blocks between you and the spider/creeper and they will still initiate tracking and try to find a path to you.
hmm.. then there is no LoS.. that means proximity starts it, which to me makes beds useless beyond setting spawn at the moment. Especially if there are numerous pockets of air for them to spawn underground. Hopefully they will at least do something with the bed thing in the very least reduce or change it so it is not completely redundant. I don't have too much trouble with beds, when you can see the mobs, but for the ones hidden in those pockets of air that is another story.
At least now on my current map I have resolved that issue to some degree as I actually finally found the pocket while building a bit around the area under the earth. Got to love a tiny chamber that keeps you up at night, or well when you are at ground level or above the linear plan the pocket is on. being under it seems to actually cause the bed to work for some reason. Anyway thanks for the info, this will be very helpful for a few other things I have in mind beyond the bed problem...:D
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My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
couple those facts together and you have a good explanation of why some people are getting the "no sleep" problem but can never figure out why. If you have an air pocket within 16 of you and it spawns a creeper, you'll literally never know unless you use the xray glitch because the creeper will never make any noise. It also explains why I never had any trouble with sleeping in my previous worlds - all my beds were in towers. With the porousness of 1.01 worlds it is more likely that you will have an air pocket underneath you.
couple those facts together and you have a good explanation of why some people are getting the "no sleep" problem but can never figure out why. If you have an air pocket within 16 of you and it spawns a creeper, you'll literally never know unless you use the xray glitch because the creeper will never make any noise. It also explains why I never had any trouble with sleeping in my previous worlds - all my beds were in towers. With the porousness of 1.01 worlds it is more likely that you will have an air pocket underneath you.
yeah this is true, quite true. Since I pretty much just started on the new map, I have no choice at the moment but to evade such a thing. Just glad I eventually found it. that was annoying, that and I really wanted my bed in the upper level. Eventually I will probably have something setup for better sleep, but that will be a while since it is a new world...
Makes me wonder though if some of the other biomes have this, which I will assume they do just in different forms. It is like when you branch mine or mine period, you sometimes break into a small chamber that leads nowhere...O_o
So from that I have to say could most definitely be the cause....lol
Makes me wonder though if some of the other biomes have this, which I will assume they do just in different forms. It is like when you branch mine or mine period, you sometimes break into a small chamber that leads nowhere...O_o
I can speak to that. I've found that almost all biomes have something like it; I think differences are merely in the execution, so to speak. In desert biomes, it can happen a lot because of the odd "sand not falling glitch. Ie. you get small chambers that would collapse if you just could get a block update in there. I have also seen something like it in Plains biomes (predominant on my current world). In plains, you'll often find those short cave systems that seem to meander around and then peter out. In fact, my current home is build over just such an area.
One suggestion for combating the problem is to build snow golems. Because snow golems have the same kind of tracking routines as creepers (I think), they will often show you the location of hidden aggro mobs. I don't have pics right now, but I have my house covered by snow golem pillboxes. I can tell when there is a hidden aggro mob nearby becuase the golems will stare in that direction, even if they don't attack due tolack of LOS.
I can speak to that. I've found that almost all biomes have something like it; I think differences are merely in the execution, so to speak. In desert biomes, it can happen a lot because of the odd "sand not falling glitch. Ie. you get small chambers that would collapse if you just could get a block update in there. I have also seen something like it in Plains biomes (predominant on my current world). In plains, you'll often find those short cave systems that seem to meander around and then peter out. In fact, my current home is build over just such an area.
One suggestion for combating the problem is to build snow golems. Because snow golems have the same kind of tracking routines as creepers (I think), they will often show you the location of hidden aggro mobs. I don't have pics right now, but I have my house covered by snow golem pillboxes. I can tell when there is a hidden aggro mob nearby becuase the golems will stare in that direction, even if they don't attack due tolack of LOS.
ooo that is a good idea, never thought of that. Well I'll have to try that out sometime. Makes sense though as they attack anything within their radius of fire, or well snow in that case...lol
Good thing the snow biome is almost around the corner, well a 1/4 day walk from where I am. Guess I'll have to go snow harvesting then... makes more use of my pumpkin patch other than lighting.
Odd, I seem to remember getting blown up by creepers in the morning quite often and hadn't stayed out at night. But I'm fairly noob so
Actually, not sure I understand how it prevents mobs from spawning. If you sleep through the night normally, mobs don't spawn at all? Is that cheating too? I think your post just confused me more! hehe
What's wrong with fighting only half the night? It's an all or nothing thing?
Hmm... Then that doesn't explain the problem that I was having...with beds that is. Since both places where I placed the bed were exactly the same distance from the enclave, which was roughly 2 blocks thick and on the second level between the 2 beds but out about 5 blocks... roughly... it is like they can track you from below, but not from above? That is my confusion on it.
1 thick wall makes sense, but 2 thick... hmm...and yet loose tracking when you go below them... O_o
Seems to me the system is a bit flawed... I just hope they improve the AI in a good way for easy normal hard. But all have a different level of tracking.
Of course what I am wondering about is it considered tracking when they don't see you at first? or only when they see you... That is what gets me... Like they spawn where line of sight is impossible to see unless they themselves dig toward the player. So are they suppose to initially track you upon spawn even if they have no LoS of you?
In my experience they only come towards you if they "see" you, but in my instance there was no way for the zombie to even see me since it was not above ground, but in the ground itself hidden away in that alcove. So i guess the real question is do the start tracking from LoS or just proximity...?
Well, I can't comment on design decisions, I'm just repeating what I've heard/read.
The way sleeping works, you actually skip ahead in game time to the next sunrise. For a little demonstration, put 64 sand in a furnance right before going to sleep and then check how many will have melted into glass when you get up. You'll find that it's no more than 4 or so (whereas, if you stayed up all night they would be done before the sunrise).
Ergo, the "time passed" while you slept didn't happen at all. Since it didn't, other things that happen at set intervals (like the mob spawn routine) don't have "time" to occur.
As for getting blown up by lurking creepers when you get up, a few mobs may have time to spawn during the "going to sleep" sequence (especially in areas with shade where it gets dark before the sun goes down). Since creepers can survive in sunlight (even though they won't spawn in bright light), it's not that uncommon for the only aggro mobs left after sleeping to be the odd creeper. If they happen to spawn close enough to you or wander into range before the time jump, they will "lock on" and track you. That means that the few precious seconds of wake up animation time and the time it takes for you to get to the front door might be enough to let them get the jump on you.
(Note: this is why it's important to light up the outside of your structures as well as the inside. - Aggro mobs spawn in the dark. Ergo having places around your structures that get dark quicker (shadows) as the sun goes down actually serve as mini-monster spawners because the system is looking for places to spawn monsters all the time and there will be a period of time where the only place they can spawn is in the shadow of your structure. Normally aggro mobs cannot spawn within a certain distance of you (I forget the radius), but most people build big enough structure that the external walls are outside the limit.)
uncertain - I have seen spiders track in on me through the roof of a building, even when they could never "see me." I don't know about other aggro mobs. You're probably on to something regarding 1 thick versus 2 think walls, I just don't know
I will agree that the system is buggy as hell right now. Some of it is "performance as intended" and some is not. The problem is we can't tell the instances apart!
Actually, the way the creeper and spider track you is an intended mechanic, so I doubt we will see any change in that department, in fact most of the AI updates that have made it to the PC version actually improve certain enemies ability to track you through walls and navigate difficult terrain in order o get closer to you, the zombie in particular.
However LoS needs work in the AI script in my opinion, not tracking. Otherwise you mind as well scrap that ai as you will always be in danger even in a 1x1 room built yourself, as they will initially see you through walls and "start" tracking you. That is what I am referring to. When they spawn I know they don't just start immediately start tracking you, due to the fact they will just wander around aimlessly till they "spot" you. That was the problem I was having with beds in the first place, as they will start tracking you as soon as they spawn. If I wanted to play that sort of game I would put a zombie game in the disc drive.
I am not expecting the best LoS, but at least something so that beds are useful beyond setting spawn. Cause once they spot you which is suppose to be unlikely through a thick wall; or well the way I see it, they will continue to track... It is the initial thing that starts them to tracking you that concerns me... And mainly what is happening in my case, even though there is no way for that mob to possibly to see or have a route to get to me.
The tracking is initiated by being within a 16 block radius of the mob (spiders and creepers), line of sight is not required. It can also be initiated by the mob wondering within a 16 block radius of the player. This mechanic is required for spiders and creepers to be a suitable threat, particularly with spiders in cave systems. Technically you can have 14 layers of blocks between you and the spider/creeper and they will still initiate tracking and try to find a path to you.
At least now on my current map I have resolved that issue to some degree as I actually finally found the pocket while building a bit around the area under the earth. Got to love a tiny chamber that keeps you up at night, or well when you are at ground level or above the linear plan the pocket is on. being under it seems to actually cause the bed to work for some reason. Anyway thanks for the info, this will be very helpful for a few other things I have in mind beyond the bed problem...:D
yeah this is true, quite true. Since I pretty much just started on the new map, I have no choice at the moment but to evade such a thing. Just glad I eventually found it. that was annoying, that and I really wanted my bed in the upper level. Eventually I will probably have something setup for better sleep, but that will be a while since it is a new world...
Makes me wonder though if some of the other biomes have this, which I will assume they do just in different forms. It is like when you branch mine or mine period, you sometimes break into a small chamber that leads nowhere...O_o
So from that I have to say could most definitely be the cause....lol
I can speak to that. I've found that almost all biomes have something like it; I think differences are merely in the execution, so to speak. In desert biomes, it can happen a lot because of the odd "sand not falling glitch. Ie. you get small chambers that would collapse if you just could get a block update in there. I have also seen something like it in Plains biomes (predominant on my current world). In plains, you'll often find those short cave systems that seem to meander around and then peter out. In fact, my current home is build over just such an area.
One suggestion for combating the problem is to build snow golems. Because snow golems have the same kind of tracking routines as creepers (I think), they will often show you the location of hidden aggro mobs. I don't have pics right now, but I have my house covered by snow golem pillboxes. I can tell when there is a hidden aggro mob nearby becuase the golems will stare in that direction, even if they don't attack due tolack of LOS.
ooo that is a good idea, never thought of that. Well I'll have to try that out sometime. Makes sense though as they attack anything within their radius of fire, or well snow in that case...lol
Good thing the snow biome is almost around the corner, well a 1/4 day walk from where I am. Guess I'll have to go snow harvesting then...
Thank you very much...:D