Things like Blazes, Nether Wart, and Magma Cubes spawn in Nether Fortresses. All three are integral to brewing. It appears the Nether spawns all at once (possibly on world spawn and not just when you enter it), but either way, if you have already entered your Nether, you will not get a Nether Stronghold.
This raises questions in my mind.
Do these mobs and items every naturally spwan outside of a nether stronghold?
Can you trick the system into believing a stronghold exists by going into creative and building one? (Kind of like you can trick the system into populating a user-created village)
if the above is yes, does anyone know what criteria define a Nether Stronghold in game terms?
No. At least when you compare the equivalent update from the pc. Magma cubes you just might find, however the blazes only spawned from the spawners.
Blazes didn't naturally spawn till like the most recent pc update. It would be nice if such would be put in so those with older worlds that have gone into the nether already would have at least a chance to harvest.
The nether wort on the other hand, far as I know it only is found initially in fortresses... Would be nice again if they added that into the terrain feature to have some grow wild on soul sand around the nether.
So the only way to get is a new world, if they don't bring forward natural spawning and add that bit I mentioned...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
Luke,
we really dont know - common sense says the Nether generates as you enter it, but some others have suggested it is created whole on world generation.
We know for certain that fully explored Nethers will not receive the updates - so, yes, unless you go creative and add things like blaze rods, etc. you will not see those items,
Without spawn eggs/ placeable monster spawners (which pc never really had - it was a hack) you will also not see Blazes or Magma cubes.
This does open a bigger can of worms however, I just hope we can get enough play in this thread to get some responses.
Basically, how does the game "know" when to treat a structure as a particular type for the purposes of spawning structure-specific mobs?
For instance, according to the wiki, users can creat villages and have villagers spawn into them based on the number of doors within the village radius. But how does the game determine what the village radius is? If I go out in the middle of a desert and build a bunch of houses, will they spawn villagers? What is the key that turns a bunch of buildings into a village?
Same thing with nether fortresses. How does the game "know" to only spawn magma cubes in strongholds. As Tamorr notes, blazes now do occasionally just randomly spawn in nether strongholds, how does the game "know" where to spawn them?
In the case of the village, I have always wondered if it was the well. The wiki notes that every village will always have a well. However, we don't if building the well satisfies the condition, it might be the the well is merely a marker for an id'd block that servers as the center of the village. With nether fortresses, it's even less clear.
Luke,
we really dont know - common sense says the Nether generates as you enter it, but some others have suggested it is created whole on world generation.
We know for certain that fully explored Nethers will not receive the updates - so, yes, unless you go creative and add things like blaze rods, etc. you will not see those items,
Without spawn eggs/ placeable monster spawners (which pc never really had - it was a hack) you will also not see Blazes or Magma cubes.
If this helps, the file size increases after one enters the nether in a similar fashion as it increases as different areas of the map are first explored. Therefore, I believe it generates the same way as any other terrain - upon exploration.
However, since a certain number of chunks generate around each chunk that is actually walked through in the overworld (estimate about 140 blocks) and the nether is about 1/3 the size of the overworld, it may be that entering the nether near its center is enough to cause most of the chunks to generate. If your portal tucks you away in a corner, however, I would think there may be a few chunks left ungenerated in the diagonal corner of it.
My understanding of villagers is that if you build your own village, you have to use spawn eggs to initially populate it. I expect this means that the village boundary is tied to how the system uses the seed string to determine where to generate villages in the first place. Not sure how it might know whether or not a village actually generated in the seed specified locations if the seed was generated prior to 1.8.2. One of the half-explored seeds I used for my experiment did generate a village in an unexplored area of it.
This does open a bigger can of worms however, I just hope we can get enough play in this thread to get some responses.
Basically, how does the game "know" when to treat a structure as a particular type for the purposes of spawning structure-specific mobs?
For instance, according to the wiki, users can creat villages and have villagers spawn into them based on the number of doors within the village radius. But how does the game determine what the village radius is? If I go out in the middle of a desert and build a bunch of houses, will they spawn villagers? What is the key that turns a bunch of buildings into a village?
Same thing with nether fortresses. How does the game "know" to only spawn magma cubes in strongholds. As Tamorr notes, blazes now do occasionally just randomly spawn in nether strongholds, how does the game "know" where to spawn them?
In the case of the village, I have always wondered if it was the well. The wiki notes that every village will always have a well. However, we don't if building the well satisfies the condition, it might be the the well is merely a marker for an id'd block that servers as the center of the village. With nether fortresses, it's even less clear.
Well that is simple to explain. both for fortress and villages. When villagers were first introduces to well replicate per say; The villages stem from a certain point, which mean a center of sorts. Something like 40 blocks or so square or radius, I don't quite remember exactly which. But any buildings with doors from that point count as part of that specific village. Later though they added custom option indirectly. As you could build anywhere, as long as you had at least 2 villagers. that would create a new village probably from the point that you created from it. The latter part is a bit sketchy as I don't know a whole lot about creating villages, just know a bit on how the seed build ones function to some degree.
Now for the nether fortress, that one is obvious. it will be basically a boxed area in and around the fortress. Kinda like several invisible boxes laid side by side to form the borders of the fortress. It is in those boxes that things made to spawn in such areas, to be able to spawn.
So in essence it is not the structures themselves that signifies the boundaries, but the invisible border that labels that area to be such a place. Kinda like how we on the xbox have that invisible border around the map to stop you from going beyond the boundary of the map.
Also any map that has not generated the nether, by means of simply building a portal will generate the fortress. Those that have a nether portal built at one point will not. Well that is my theory on that. However it is a sound one since the nether loads upon creation. It is possible that they might have accounted unexplored sections of nether to have possible spawn, but most unlikely as the nether is small to begin with.
Sadly my primary map will not get these fortresses, which is no biggy since that is more of my peacefully build maps anyway. I just hope that soon we will get those upside down stuff and colored wood. That would be the only way I could even think of pushing forward even further on my primary map made in 1.7.3. Others ones I'll just create for the features beyond that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
Things like Blazes, Nether Wart, and Magma Cubes spawn in Nether Fortresses. All three are integral to brewing. It appears the Nether spawns all at once (possibly on world spawn and not just when you enter it), but either way, if you have already entered your Nether, you will not get a Nether Stronghold.
This raises questions in my mind.
Do these mobs and items every naturally spwan outside of a nether stronghold?
Can you trick the system into believing a stronghold exists by going into creative and building one? (Kind of like you can trick the system into populating a user-created village)
Blazes didn't naturally spawn till like the most recent pc update. It would be nice if such would be put in so those with older worlds that have gone into the nether already would have at least a chance to harvest.
The nether wort on the other hand, far as I know it only is found initially in fortresses... Would be nice again if they added that into the terrain feature to have some grow wild on soul sand around the nether.
So the only way to get is a new world, if they don't bring forward natural spawning and add that bit I mentioned...
we really dont know - common sense says the Nether generates as you enter it, but some others have suggested it is created whole on world generation.
We know for certain that fully explored Nethers will not receive the updates - so, yes, unless you go creative and add things like blaze rods, etc. you will not see those items,
Without spawn eggs/ placeable monster spawners (which pc never really had - it was a hack) you will also not see Blazes or Magma cubes.
Basically, how does the game "know" when to treat a structure as a particular type for the purposes of spawning structure-specific mobs?
For instance, according to the wiki, users can creat villages and have villagers spawn into them based on the number of doors within the village radius. But how does the game determine what the village radius is? If I go out in the middle of a desert and build a bunch of houses, will they spawn villagers? What is the key that turns a bunch of buildings into a village?
Same thing with nether fortresses. How does the game "know" to only spawn magma cubes in strongholds. As Tamorr notes, blazes now do occasionally just randomly spawn in nether strongholds, how does the game "know" where to spawn them?
In the case of the village, I have always wondered if it was the well. The wiki notes that every village will always have a well. However, we don't if building the well satisfies the condition, it might be the the well is merely a marker for an id'd block that servers as the center of the village. With nether fortresses, it's even less clear.
If this helps, the file size increases after one enters the nether in a similar fashion as it increases as different areas of the map are first explored. Therefore, I believe it generates the same way as any other terrain - upon exploration.
However, since a certain number of chunks generate around each chunk that is actually walked through in the overworld (estimate about 140 blocks) and the nether is about 1/3 the size of the overworld, it may be that entering the nether near its center is enough to cause most of the chunks to generate. If your portal tucks you away in a corner, however, I would think there may be a few chunks left ungenerated in the diagonal corner of it.
My understanding of villagers is that if you build your own village, you have to use spawn eggs to initially populate it. I expect this means that the village boundary is tied to how the system uses the seed string to determine where to generate villages in the first place. Not sure how it might know whether or not a village actually generated in the seed specified locations if the seed was generated prior to 1.8.2. One of the half-explored seeds I used for my experiment did generate a village in an unexplored area of it.
Well that is simple to explain. both for fortress and villages. When villagers were first introduces to well replicate per say; The villages stem from a certain point, which mean a center of sorts. Something like 40 blocks or so square or radius, I don't quite remember exactly which. But any buildings with doors from that point count as part of that specific village. Later though they added custom option indirectly. As you could build anywhere, as long as you had at least 2 villagers. that would create a new village probably from the point that you created from it. The latter part is a bit sketchy as I don't know a whole lot about creating villages, just know a bit on how the seed build ones function to some degree.
Now for the nether fortress, that one is obvious. it will be basically a boxed area in and around the fortress. Kinda like several invisible boxes laid side by side to form the borders of the fortress. It is in those boxes that things made to spawn in such areas, to be able to spawn.
So in essence it is not the structures themselves that signifies the boundaries, but the invisible border that labels that area to be such a place. Kinda like how we on the xbox have that invisible border around the map to stop you from going beyond the boundary of the map.
Also any map that has not generated the nether, by means of simply building a portal will generate the fortress. Those that have a nether portal built at one point will not. Well that is my theory on that. However it is a sound one since the nether loads upon creation. It is possible that they might have accounted unexplored sections of nether to have possible spawn, but most unlikely as the nether is small to begin with.
Sadly my primary map will not get these fortresses, which is no biggy since that is more of my peacefully build maps anyway. I just hope that soon we will get those upside down stuff and colored wood. That would be the only way I could even think of pushing forward even further on my primary map made in 1.7.3. Others ones I'll just create for the features beyond that.