I'm just wandering. 4JStudios will normaly do the 1.2.3 update exactly like the PC version, so we should have the new 256 height limit with the next update. But do you think they could not be able to higher the height because of the memory limit of the Xbox (like they can't make bigger worlds), or is it different and there should be no problems ? I think it should be OK because we can fly higher than the limit with the actual update...
I'm really hoping to have the 256 height cause i'm a fan of skyscrappers (i mostly build very high towers and i feel kind of frustrated with the actual limit lol).
I could do it on pc (i have minecraft PC and a very good computer)... But i really love playing on the Xbox cause i can play with my son in splitscreen :-)
Probobly no. Bc Of the memmory like you were saying.
See since they cant make the worlds bigger i dont think they can make it higher bc Its probobly the same so make things shorter and nicer
I AM GUESSING THAT THE WORLD HEIGHT WILL STAY THE SAMEZZZZZZ
well, you dont know forsure. No update we have had raises the limit, so when 1.2.3 comes, we will see. but it is almost certain we will get the height limit.
It's all a question of how much efficiency they get from ANVIL over McRegion. The height limit was brought in as part of the ANIVL anyway. So the question is whether the increase in efficiency is equivalent to doubling the total volume.
BTW - doubling the height doubles the number of blocks the system must track. Regardless of whether they stay air or not - the amount of memory used is exactly the same....
There is no problem with memory. It is RAM that is the issue. And I bet they would because we can fly up to 511 blocks which means most of the map is air blocks. The only issue is lag, which would occur for everyone is anyone has a massive build that uses the whole skylimit to bedrock
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Religion, has actually convinced people, that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of the day, and the invisible man has a special list. Of 10 things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do ANY of these ten things he has a special place, full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and will send you there to suffer and choke and scream for all of eternity... But he still loves you.
It's all a question of how much efficiency they get from ANVIL over McRegion. The height limit was brought in as part of the ANIVL anyway. So the question is whether the increase in efficiency is equivalent to doubling the total volume.
BTW - doubling the height doubles the number of blocks the system must track. Regardless of whether they stay air or not - the amount of memory used is exactly the same....
It's not the same. Air has no texture, no graphics to render, no hitbox which means no collision data to worry about. There's very much a difference between air and "solid" blocks.
There is no problem with memory. It is RAM that is the issue. And I bet they would because we can fly up to 511 blocks which means most of the map is air blocks. The only issue is lag, which would occur for everyone is anyone has a massive build that uses the whole skylimit to bedrock
RAM is a type of memory. If you want to get technical, the storage for your hard drive is also RAM. Even the flash drive where you keep your backups on is RAM. 9 times out of 10, when the average person says memory, in reference to a computer, they mean RAM as in the chips attached to the motherboard, where programs keep information that will be frequently used to increase speed.
Anyway, even now we've seen players having issues at the current height limit. Although I think ANVIL's optimization will even it all out and allow us the height cap increase.
It's not the same. Air has no texture, no graphics to render, no hitbox which means no collision data to worry about. There's very much a difference between air and "solid" blocks.
RAM is a type of memory. If you want to get technical, the storage for your hard drive is also RAM. Even the flash drive where you keep your backups on is RAM. 9 times out of 10, when the average person says memory, in reference to a computer, they mean RAM as in the chips attached to the motherboard, where programs keep information that will be frequently used to increase speed.
Anyway, even now we've seen players having issues at the current height limit. Although I think ANVIL's optimization will even it all out and allow us the height cap increase.
Yes but in general he was talking about all memory:)
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Religion, has actually convinced people, that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of the day, and the invisible man has a special list. Of 10 things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do ANY of these ten things he has a special place, full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and will send you there to suffer and choke and scream for all of eternity... But he still loves you.
Yes but in general he was talking about all memory:)
Well he referenced it as the reason we can't have larger worlds, which 4J confirmed as an issue with RAM limitations. I'm pretty sure we know what he's talking about.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this one Nosejob - everything I've been able to find out on the subject suggests a block is a block is a block (whether it is a block of air or not), you double the space available to be filled with blocks and you are, at least, doubling the physical number of elements in the world db (Because all those air blocks have to be tracked as well).
As I pointed out, it was the change in the world db format to ANIVL that allowed this in the PC. I think it stands to reason that the world size increase will not be a physical doubling of memory requirements because it comes simultaneous to the ANVIL conversion; they've already said that ANVIL optimizes the coding system within the db. If they were to try and expand the height limit without the ANVIL conversion, it would double the memory requirements and be undoable but because ANVIL changes how elements within the world db are tracked, it might be possible.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this one Nosejob - everything I've been able to find out on the subject suggests a block is a block is a block (whether it is a block of air or not), you double the space available to be filled with blocks and you are, at least, doubling the physical number of elements in the world db (Because all those air blocks have to be tracked as well).
As I pointed out, it was the change in the world db format to ANIVL that allowed this in the PC. I think it stands to reason that the world size increase will not be a physical doubling of memory requirements because it comes simultaneous to the ANVIL conversion; they've already said that ANVIL optimizes the coding system within the db. If they were to try and expand the height limit without the ANVIL conversion, it would double the memory requirements and be undoable but because ANVIL changes how elements within the world db are tracked, it might be possible.
I'm not calling you a liar. But I would like to see your sources, as I'm interested in this as well. It just doesn't make any sense, as it obviously requires less information to generate an air block. It's obvious that solid blocks take up more space than air blocks do. When you build in a world, the size of the gamesave file increases, which is strong evidence in itself. According to Mine OS, they take no RAM space at all, which I'm a bit skeptical about.
The server will load into 'active' memory the immediate space around the player approximately 9 chunks out (or 144x144x128 blocks). Thats a potential of 2654208 blocks (though air blocks are literally not transmitted).
'active memory' is important to distinguish since ONLY in 'active' areas will saplings grow, mobs spawn, or terrain change (such as from forest fires).
I don't know, I'm going to look into this more. Though I'm quite sure air blocks take less space than any other block, especially one that is solid.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not so skeptical about air blocks not taking any space. In the chunk data, yes, the location would be logged. But, the data of air itself is null, as it's simply the absence of a block. Technically air isn't a block at all, it's just thought of as such and is really just nothingness in a block's location.
I'm not calling you a liar. But I would like to see your sources, as I'm interested in this as well. It just doesn't make any sense, as it obviously requires less information to generate an air block. It's obvious that solid blocks take up more space than air blocks do. When you build in a world, the size of the gamesave file increases, which is strong evidence in itself. According to Mine OS, they take no RAM space at all, which I'm a bit skeptical about.
I don't know, I'm going to look into this more. Though I'm quite sure air blocks take less space than any other block, especially one that is solid.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not so skeptical about air blocks not taking any space. In the chunk data, yes, the location would be logged. But, the data of air itself is null, as it's simply the absence of a block. Technically air isn't a block at all, it's just thought of as such and is really just nothingness in a block's location.
My file is not bearing out your statement of file size increasing with straight building. When I first created my world is was 6 MB. After I finished just exploring/walking it on surface, it had grown to 16 MB (this was before I built or mined anything). Today it is still only 17 MB.
I have built my home base (2-story home with surrounding wall, two fountains, wheat farm, dog runs, chicken coop and now cattle run). I also have my country house which is a two-storey home built around the base of my mob drop trap. I have my mining tour office/mall with restaurant and bookstore, which has three man-made water falls and a fountain. I have my 11-room fully furnished motel, my ice research station (igloo-style train station with an extra igloo that covers over the entrance to one of my mines), my main train station, my lighthouse, my volleyball court, tiki bar and beach resort area, about 600 m of railroad with a triple covered bridge laid on a 3-block wide wooden and cobblestone right of way that is completely fenced on both sides. I also have my harbour boardwalk with two walkway bridges (almost 300 m long in all by 3-wide, fully lit). I have also done extensive terraforming for my parkour/golf course (filling in the steeper valleys between hills with dirt blocks) and in my mine I have an area where I started disposing of unwanted cobbestone that now amouts to nearly 100 x 100 x 10 (solid). So, all of this and only a 1MB increase in the file size. The biggest increase by far was when I first explored the world. However, I have not duped and don't use much redstone.
we will probably get world height, and when we do, I will have to rebuild Azerus, the city of mages to account for it, while also taking into account the fact that the actual world size will not change. It might make the build awkward.... hmmmmmm.
It's not the same. Air has no texture, no graphics to render, no hitbox which means no collision data to worry about. There's very much a difference between air and "solid" blocks.
I disagree. I think air's transparency is it's texture and the ability to walk through it represents it's collision data. Air is not the null state of the system, the void is.
I'm not sure if any of you guys watch JL2579 and/or DocM77 or not, but in some of their recent mob trap videos they talk about world height and such. What they basically said was that until someone actually builds into the new sky limit (so anything above our current limit) the game does not even check that part of the chunk for things like mob spawning etc...this applies on a chunk by chunk basis so it will only check chunks that have things built above our sky limit.
I'm not sure if any of you guys watch JL2579 and/or DocM77 or not, but in some of their recent mob trap videos they talk about world height and such. What they basically said was that until someone actually builds into the new sky limit (so anything above our current limit) the game does not even check that part of the chunk for things like mob spawning etc...this applies on a chunk by chunk basis so it will only check chunks that have things built above our sky limit.
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Current chunk size is 16 x 16 x 128. With the new sky limit, I've been thinking in terms of the chunk size being expanded to 16 x 16 x 256; but lets say the world instead become 2 chunk layers, each 16 x 16 x 128. We know that the chunks don't generate until the terrain is explored. IF a chunk is comprised completely of air blocks above the 128th layer of the map, then the only way to explore that chunk would be to build above the current world height... at which point that chunk would generate for the first time just like the ones on the surface do.
Although it would be possible to be done that way. When jungles are added and if height is as well then jungle have that possibility to grow beyond that 128 limit using that second chunk. I can probably say there will be more lag issues due to this, but for me it would be worth it to have the world height, as I could regulate what I do build over that 1st height.
In single player it probably wouldn't be so bad, but in multiplayer you might see lag spikes or waves of lag. Just a speculation though in consideration of that possible height change. it is like trying to fill the entire map full of water on a superflat. Now if the optimize it somehow further to at least reduce what will happen then let us hope it will be bearable.:D
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My First World, always getting back to is a pleasure I enjoy with each new update that brings in more things to add in.
Mob spawning, and rendering the world are two different things entirely. I don't get the point that your trying to make?
As said before the Anvil update was also a memory optimization, thus meaning more memory for other things (such as world height) the point I was trying to make is that the game is not wasting additional memory checking those technically unloaded areas for things such as spawning, block updates etc....
Also air blocks seem to cause much less world lag (if any) If you have ever tried to build complicated redstone projects in a survival world and in a superflat world, you should notice that they always work better in the superflat world. Not only that but from tests I found that areas with alot of airblocks render much faster then areas that have a solid block. This is why superflat worlds not only generate but render faster also.
So now you have a bunch of air blocks which render quick by design, and they are not being checked by the code for updates or spawning. I don't see lag being generated from that. As for when people build a lot above sky limit and the game slowing to a crawl I don't think it will happening. IMO the memory optimization will adequately meet the higher demand of a raised skylimit. As long as your not building redstone clocks that run pistons that go about dropping lava off the top of the world.
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I'm just wandering. 4JStudios will normaly do the 1.2.3 update exactly like the PC version, so we should have the new 256 height limit with the next update. But do you think they could not be able to higher the height because of the memory limit of the Xbox (like they can't make bigger worlds), or is it different and there should be no problems ? I think it should be OK because we can fly higher than the limit with the actual update...
I'm really hoping to have the 256 height cause i'm a fan of skyscrappers (i mostly build very high towers and i feel kind of frustrated with the actual limit lol).
I could do it on pc (i have minecraft PC and a very good computer)... But i really love playing on the Xbox cause i can play with my son in splitscreen :-)
Thanks !
See since they cant make the worlds bigger i dont think they can make it higher bc Its probobly the same so make things shorter and nicer
I AM GUESSING THAT THE WORLD HEIGHT WILL STAY THE SAMEZZZZZZ
well, you dont know forsure. No update we have had raises the limit, so when 1.2.3 comes, we will see. but it is almost certain we will get the height limit.
BTW - doubling the height doubles the number of blocks the system must track. Regardless of whether they stay air or not - the amount of memory used is exactly the same....
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Retired StaffIt's not the same. Air has no texture, no graphics to render, no hitbox which means no collision data to worry about. There's very much a difference between air and "solid" blocks.
RAM is a type of memory. If you want to get technical, the storage for your hard drive is also RAM. Even the flash drive where you keep your backups on is RAM. 9 times out of 10, when the average person says memory, in reference to a computer, they mean RAM as in the chips attached to the motherboard, where programs keep information that will be frequently used to increase speed.
Anyway, even now we've seen players having issues at the current height limit. Although I think ANVIL's optimization will even it all out and allow us the height cap increase.
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Curse PremiumYes but in general he was talking about all memory:)
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Retired StaffWell he referenced it as the reason we can't have larger worlds, which 4J confirmed as an issue with RAM limitations. I'm pretty sure we know what he's talking about.
As I pointed out, it was the change in the world db format to ANIVL that allowed this in the PC. I think it stands to reason that the world size increase will not be a physical doubling of memory requirements because it comes simultaneous to the ANVIL conversion; they've already said that ANVIL optimizes the coding system within the db. If they were to try and expand the height limit without the ANVIL conversion, it would double the memory requirements and be undoable but because ANVIL changes how elements within the world db are tracked, it might be possible.
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Retired StaffI'm not calling you a liar. But I would like to see your sources, as I'm interested in this as well. It just doesn't make any sense, as it obviously requires less information to generate an air block. It's obvious that solid blocks take up more space than air blocks do. When you build in a world, the size of the gamesave file increases, which is strong evidence in itself. According to Mine OS, they take no RAM space at all, which I'm a bit skeptical about.
http://minecraft.cod...elpdoc_ram.html
I don't know, I'm going to look into this more. Though I'm quite sure air blocks take less space than any other block, especially one that is solid.
EDIT: Actually, I'm not so skeptical about air blocks not taking any space. In the chunk data, yes, the location would be logged. But, the data of air itself is null, as it's simply the absence of a block. Technically air isn't a block at all, it's just thought of as such and is really just nothingness in a block's location.
LINK to the news: http://www.oxm.co.uk/44849/minecraft-xbox-360-update-superflat-worlds-anvil-map-format-and-chainmail-on-the-way/
LINK to tweet: https://twitter.com/4JStu/status/236028915922128898
My file is not bearing out your statement of file size increasing with straight building. When I first created my world is was 6 MB. After I finished just exploring/walking it on surface, it had grown to 16 MB (this was before I built or mined anything). Today it is still only 17 MB.
I have built my home base (2-story home with surrounding wall, two fountains, wheat farm, dog runs, chicken coop and now cattle run). I also have my country house which is a two-storey home built around the base of my mob drop trap. I have my mining tour office/mall with restaurant and bookstore, which has three man-made water falls and a fountain. I have my 11-room fully furnished motel, my ice research station (igloo-style train station with an extra igloo that covers over the entrance to one of my mines), my main train station, my lighthouse, my volleyball court, tiki bar and beach resort area, about 600 m of railroad with a triple covered bridge laid on a 3-block wide wooden and cobblestone right of way that is completely fenced on both sides. I also have my harbour boardwalk with two walkway bridges (almost 300 m long in all by 3-wide, fully lit). I have also done extensive terraforming for my parkour/golf course (filling in the steeper valleys between hills with dirt blocks) and in my mine I have an area where I started disposing of unwanted cobbestone that now amouts to nearly 100 x 100 x 10 (solid). So, all of this and only a 1MB increase in the file size. The biggest increase by far was when I first explored the world. However, I have not duped and don't use much redstone.
I disagree. I think air's transparency is it's texture and the ability to walk through it represents it's collision data. Air is not the null state of the system, the void is.
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Current chunk size is 16 x 16 x 128. With the new sky limit, I've been thinking in terms of the chunk size being expanded to 16 x 16 x 256; but lets say the world instead become 2 chunk layers, each 16 x 16 x 128. We know that the chunks don't generate until the terrain is explored. IF a chunk is comprised completely of air blocks above the 128th layer of the map, then the only way to explore that chunk would be to build above the current world height... at which point that chunk would generate for the first time just like the ones on the surface do.
In single player it probably wouldn't be so bad, but in multiplayer you might see lag spikes or waves of lag. Just a speculation though in consideration of that possible height change. it is like trying to fill the entire map full of water on a superflat. Now if the optimize it somehow further to at least reduce what will happen then let us hope it will be bearable.:D
As said before the Anvil update was also a memory optimization, thus meaning more memory for other things (such as world height) the point I was trying to make is that the game is not wasting additional memory checking those technically unloaded areas for things such as spawning, block updates etc....
Also air blocks seem to cause much less world lag (if any) If you have ever tried to build complicated redstone projects in a survival world and in a superflat world, you should notice that they always work better in the superflat world. Not only that but from tests I found that areas with alot of airblocks render much faster then areas that have a solid block. This is why superflat worlds not only generate but render faster also.
So now you have a bunch of air blocks which render quick by design, and they are not being checked by the code for updates or spawning. I don't see lag being generated from that. As for when people build a lot above sky limit and the game slowing to a crawl I don't think it will happening. IMO the memory optimization will adequately meet the higher demand of a raised skylimit. As long as your not building redstone clocks that run pistons that go about dropping lava off the top of the world.