This has to be one of the most interesting threads I've ever read on this forum!
I do wonder what the future will have on store for Minecraft and the next Xbox (720?) and if they'll have a 'Minecraft Xbox720 Edition' update for the existing one when the time comes. They might still continue to develop the current 360 edition once the 720 is out, but most people will probably upgrade over and take advantage of the possibility of being able to have bigger worlds, etc!
I haven't heard anything about the 'Xbox720' yet myself, apart from what's been said in this thread about it being six (or ten) times powerful than the current Xbox360, which should be pretty damn awesome and worth the wait if its as good as it sounds!
I was hoping it would turn into a solid conversation!
I think a leaked presentation is more reliable than articles made by random people, saying "Herp-a-derp, nope, new Xbox won't be backwards-compatible, and it won't even have a disc drive." Not to mention what we've seen from the Durango dev kit.
I couldn't imagine Microsoft releasing Halo 4 with ~1 year left on their current consoles life cycle and release the 720 without backwards compatibility. I would not be an early adopter for that reason alone.
On-Topic, I saw this mentioned a few times, and I would love to see a proper Minecraft 2 (better coding, graphics, new features, physics). Microsoft would sure love to see a Minecraft 2 being released at launch of their next console I'm sure as well.
Personally I think current gen games will be much easier to have backwards compatable than last gen ones were. After all, the next gen consoles will still be HD, and the current gen games are too, so the upscaling problems would be moot. And while Microsoft definately enjoys its money (what company doesn't, obviously?), I doubt they would consider it a good strategy to tick off the millions of customers that bought Minecraft alone, much less every other XBLA game. Very few companies are that stupid; I doubt even Sony makes that mistake again with the PS4.
Personally I think current gen games will be much easier to have backwards compatable than last gen ones were. After all, the next gen consoles will still be HD, and the current gen games are too, so the upscaling problems would be moot. And while Microsoft definately enjoys its money (what company doesn't, obviously?), I doubt they would consider it a good strategy to tick off the millions of customers that bought Minecraft alone, much less every other XBLA game. Very few companies are that stupid; I doubt even Sony makes that mistake again with the PS4.
I do believe a lot of the issues were in fact due to upscaling and the switch from SD to HD. This conversation actually more or less just got me more excited for a potential Minecraft 2 though haha.
I do believe a lot of the issues were in fact due to upscaling and the switch from SD to HD. This conversation actually more or less just got me more excited for a potential Minecraft 2 though haha.
I'd love it too. If anything though, it'll look exactly the same, which would let them hopefully use the extra horsepower for bigger maps and smoother framerate.
Lets just say if Micro$oft expects me to buy hundreds of xbla games again when they drop a new console they are seriously mistaken. They better let us simply redownload these games to the new console or my xbox days are numbered.
Wow, I thought I had a lot of xbla games.
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"Only the trees which you know are not trees for food you may destroy and cut down, to build siegeworks against the city that makes war with you, until it is subdued." (Deuteronomy 20:20 NKJV)
logically, there's a reasonable probability that the 720 will have some backwards compatibility.
First off, MS uses a variant of Windows CE for the operating system. And the core architecture is more PC like than what Sony does. Additionally, MS is the king of the API and SDK. They standardize the stuffing out of everything that a developer needs to write code. As a result, even if that stuff moves inside the hardware, the hardware abstraction layer, operating system and APIs all standardize it to function calls that always work.
This means, code compiled for the 360 will probably work on the 720. The same way you can still run a Windows 3.x app on your Windows 7 machine. That's not a guarrantee of perfect compatbility, merely that past behavior from MS makes this more probable than what Sony does. At worst, Xbox devs just needs to recompile the applications for the new 720 platform.
Sony does not standardize and every platform is radically different in architecture from the last. This makes backwards compatibility, even new game development complicated as everything changes on each generation.
MS needs an OS on their new 720 that supplies all the same 360 features and more. It could take forever to re-code that from scratch. You can bet, all they are really doing is recompiling, and maybe adding new code for new features.
Whereas Sony, is probably hustling their butts off to write a brand new OS and API for the PS4, and they'll have to reinvent a ton of features they had added on the PS3.
The 720 is likely coming out at the end of 2013. Pretty much a year from now. MC360 won't be dead in a year, if the PC version is any indication. And the record sales and usage rates on Xbox live show it to be one of the strongest games ever.
I would predict a 70% chance that arcade games will just work (with a few exceptions). Failing that, MS will require devs to re-submit 720-built versions, and licenses for those will be free, meaning you can re-download onto your 720 any game that has been re-submitted. Thus, failure to support the 720 will be on the developer, not MS. It is unlikely (10% chance) that MS will require you to re-purchase the 720 version of the game, unless that version is a full re-write and re-release (like the HD version).
All consoles get a huge benefit by having a big library of titles at launch. Backwards compatibility helps with that, because it's easy to justify the purchase because you can buy a few new titles, and keep running your old games on the new platform.
MS will not want to launch with only six 720 titles and 2 arcade games in the marketplace. they put in way too much work to abandon that catalog that justifies the superiority of their platform over others.
Obviously, I've made up the numbers, but you should see the situation as probabilities and value assessment.
No.... You know we have man made objects that are far beyond the solar system right now? We have voice sensitivity systems and movement and body recognizing systems. You realize just 60 years ago we traveled to the moon? And in the 1990's computers were the size of a small house? Now we have computers about the size of 40 atoms that actually arrange atoms. (We do but they have arranged a bunch of atoms into A B C with an hour. They are quickly advancing) We are in the golden age of technology. We are accelerating so much that we have artificial intelligence. Not like iRobot but it is AI. In the year 2525 I am 70% sure there won't be humans. We will kill eachother eventually. Or we will have moved on from Earth to the moon and mars and such. Just with artificial gravity and air. That is my opinion. But I am not lying about the technology. We literally are that far.
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Religion, has actually convinced people, that there's an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of the day, and the invisible man has a special list. Of 10 things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do ANY of these ten things he has a special place, full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and will send you there to suffer and choke and scream for all of eternity... But he still loves you.
No.... You know we have man made objects that are far beyond the solar system right now? We have voice sensitivity systems and movement and body recognizing systems. You realize just 60 years ago we traveled to the moon? And in the 1990's computers were the size of a small house? Now we have computers about the size of 40 atoms that actually arrange atoms. (We do but they have arranged a bunch of atoms into A B C with an hour. They are quickly advancing) We are in the golden age of technology. We are accelerating so much that we have artificial intelligence. Not like iRobot but it is AI. In the year 2525 I am 70% sure there won't be humans. We will kill eachother eventually. Or we will have moved on from Earth to the moon and mars and such. Just with artificial gravity and air. That is my opinion. But I am not lying about the technology. We literally are that far.
Hopefully we discover warp speed and the key to stop ageing while I'm in my prime and computers reach the point where real life simulation is possible 100% and all gaming platforms would be equal a few years after.
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I put my shirt on one leg at a time, just like everybody else.
In the year 2525 I am 70% sure there won't be humans. We will kill eachother eventually. Or we will have moved on from Earth to the moon and mars and such. Just with artificial gravity and air. That is my opinion. But I am not lying about the technology. We literally are that far.
"In the year 2525" is a song by Zager and Evans. The lyrics are their grim predictions for the future of humanity and the versus were similar to the post you left Snyder that me think of it.
Microsoft confirmed it themselves, how is a leaked presentation thats quite possibly fake be a better source than a microsoft representative?
vvvv
A leaked presentation from circa 2010 has the tech world buzzing. The original document and mirrors have been pulled, but we saved a copy before that happened. While there's no confirmation from Microsoft on whether the document is accurate, it lines up extremely well with what we've seen Microsoft announce so far this year, as well as previous speculation on the company's next-gen Xbox 720, codenamed Durango.
If what you say is true, Microsoft sure did go through a lot of trouble to hide a fake document.
I would also like to see this supposed statement from Microsoft. I find it peculiar that MS would take the 2010 presentation down from hundreds of websites, then give out information on the new console, which they haven't even announced it yet. I've been following this pretty closely and the only information I've seen from Microsoft is when that general manager simply confirmed a new Xbox was in the works. (whoopty doo) The only official thing I've seen directly from MS is that the new console will be "six times more powerful"
It's true the leaked presentation is two years old, and unconfirmed. But do you honestly think MS would confirm something like this being legit, even if it was? Considering, ya know, that little matter of them not wanting anyone to know their plans, I'm going to say no. The fact that they got their legal team to take action on this document already makes it more reliable than any other speculation. The Durango dev kits are a nice source of info as well, but I doubt they would give you much insight into backwards compatibility.
We should probably keep in mind that an Xmas 2013 release for a new xbox itself remains a rumour, regardless of how credible it is at this point. I expect it to happen, in the US at least, with early 2014 release for Pal territories.
Having a ready-made library of games for the new thing (whenever it comes) is very effective in garnering early adopters and doesnt actually impact new game sales much, as I bet some short-sighted executives argue. Having backwards compatibility removes one major roadblock to consumers justifying the purchase, and once the thing takes root in your house it absorbs money like a pot-plant absorbs carbon dioxide.
It would be interesting to see a study on how back-compat has impacted Nintendo systems. All their handheld lines involved it to some degree and utterly dominated for decades until recently, and Wii was their first console at all to involve backwards compatibility, and we know how that turned out!
I think you're right that the backwards compatibility does help early adopters. I know it will sway me as to whether I purchase the next Xbox or not. If I can't play Halo 4/Minecraft on the new system, I sure won't be moving away from the 360 that easily.
I also believe Nintendo's backwards compatibility on their handheld systems has helped immensely. I remember when I was younger, that one of the only reasons I bought a GBA was due to the fact I could keep playing my old games.
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I was hoping it would turn into a solid conversation!
I couldn't imagine Microsoft releasing Halo 4 with ~1 year left on their current consoles life cycle and release the 720 without backwards compatibility. I would not be an early adopter for that reason alone.
On-Topic, I saw this mentioned a few times, and I would love to see a proper Minecraft 2 (better coding, graphics, new features, physics). Microsoft would sure love to see a Minecraft 2 being released at launch of their next console I'm sure as well.
I do believe a lot of the issues were in fact due to upscaling and the switch from SD to HD. This conversation actually more or less just got me more excited for a potential Minecraft 2 though haha.
Wow, I thought I had a lot of xbla games.
First off, MS uses a variant of Windows CE for the operating system. And the core architecture is more PC like than what Sony does. Additionally, MS is the king of the API and SDK. They standardize the stuffing out of everything that a developer needs to write code. As a result, even if that stuff moves inside the hardware, the hardware abstraction layer, operating system and APIs all standardize it to function calls that always work.
This means, code compiled for the 360 will probably work on the 720. The same way you can still run a Windows 3.x app on your Windows 7 machine. That's not a guarrantee of perfect compatbility, merely that past behavior from MS makes this more probable than what Sony does. At worst, Xbox devs just needs to recompile the applications for the new 720 platform.
Sony does not standardize and every platform is radically different in architecture from the last. This makes backwards compatibility, even new game development complicated as everything changes on each generation.
MS needs an OS on their new 720 that supplies all the same 360 features and more. It could take forever to re-code that from scratch. You can bet, all they are really doing is recompiling, and maybe adding new code for new features.
Whereas Sony, is probably hustling their butts off to write a brand new OS and API for the PS4, and they'll have to reinvent a ton of features they had added on the PS3.
The 720 is likely coming out at the end of 2013. Pretty much a year from now. MC360 won't be dead in a year, if the PC version is any indication. And the record sales and usage rates on Xbox live show it to be one of the strongest games ever.
I would predict a 70% chance that arcade games will just work (with a few exceptions). Failing that, MS will require devs to re-submit 720-built versions, and licenses for those will be free, meaning you can re-download onto your 720 any game that has been re-submitted. Thus, failure to support the 720 will be on the developer, not MS. It is unlikely (10% chance) that MS will require you to re-purchase the 720 version of the game, unless that version is a full re-write and re-release (like the HD version).
All consoles get a huge benefit by having a big library of titles at launch. Backwards compatibility helps with that, because it's easy to justify the purchase because you can buy a few new titles, and keep running your old games on the new platform.
MS will not want to launch with only six 720 titles and 2 arcade games in the marketplace. they put in way too much work to abandon that catalog that justifies the superiority of their platform over others.
Obviously, I've made up the numbers, but you should see the situation as probabilities and value assessment.
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Curse PremiumNo.... You know we have man made objects that are far beyond the solar system right now? We have voice sensitivity systems and movement and body recognizing systems. You realize just 60 years ago we traveled to the moon? And in the 1990's computers were the size of a small house? Now we have computers about the size of 40 atoms that actually arrange atoms. (We do but they have arranged a bunch of atoms into A B C with an hour. They are quickly advancing) We are in the golden age of technology. We are accelerating so much that we have artificial intelligence. Not like iRobot but it is AI. In the year 2525 I am 70% sure there won't be humans. We will kill eachother eventually. Or we will have moved on from Earth to the moon and mars and such. Just with artificial gravity and air. That is my opinion. But I am not lying about the technology. We literally are that far.
Hopefully we discover warp speed and the key to stop ageing while I'm in my prime
http://www.space.com...paceflight.html
"In the year 2525" is a song by Zager and Evans. The lyrics are their grim predictions for the future of humanity and the versus were similar to the post you left Snyder that me think of it.
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Retired StaffThis console you're theorizing has already been created.
It's called LSD.
Sounds Jazzy
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Retired Staffvvvv
If what you say is true, Microsoft sure did go through a lot of trouble to hide a fake document.
I would also like to see this supposed statement from Microsoft. I find it peculiar that MS would take the 2010 presentation down from hundreds of websites, then give out information on the new console, which they haven't even announced it yet. I've been following this pretty closely and the only information I've seen from Microsoft is when that general manager simply confirmed a new Xbox was in the works. (whoopty doo) The only official thing I've seen directly from MS is that the new console will be "six times more powerful"
It's true the leaked presentation is two years old, and unconfirmed. But do you honestly think MS would confirm something like this being legit, even if it was? Considering, ya know, that little matter of them not wanting anyone to know their plans, I'm going to say no. The fact that they got their legal team to take action on this document already makes it more reliable than any other speculation. The Durango dev kits are a nice source of info as well, but I doubt they would give you much insight into backwards compatibility.
I think you're right that the backwards compatibility does help early adopters. I know it will sway me as to whether I purchase the next Xbox or not. If I can't play Halo 4/Minecraft on the new system, I sure won't be moving away from the 360 that easily.
I also believe Nintendo's backwards compatibility on their handheld systems has helped immensely. I remember when I was younger, that one of the only reasons I bought a GBA was due to the fact I could keep playing my old games.