1. With the tens of thousands of games out there, do you really think that Minecraft is the only one that Microsoft cares about?
2. I won't even begin explaining the legal issue yet again...
3. I'm pretty sure Microsoft intended for it to work this way.
To your first comment, when I open the Xbox Dashboard and I see space dedicated to not only highlight the game but highlight the latest updates, I would say Minecraft is pretty high (obviously not the only game MS cares about) on Microsoft's priorities. When is the last time you saw an info pane on updates for your Xbox Marketplace game? Most of the time I load up a game and receive a 3MB download I have no idea what it was for. I shouldn't even have to mention exceeding 4 million in sales, breaking Xbox Marketplace records, and trumping Call of Duty's weekly activity levels with hours played and players online, I'd say that has the attention of Microsoft. I can't think of too many games right now, purchased from the Marketplace mind you, that are getting this much attention. All the more reason to act now, while the community is strong and the game has the attention of Microsoft.
To your second comment, check above the post that you quoted. I provided an excerpt directly from the ESRB website that makes it pretty clear online content and user created content is not rated by the ESRB. If Microsoft uses the appropriate disclaimer, as required and spelled out in the excerpt, Microsoft is not responsible for the online content as long as they properly inform the consumer that online content is not rated. There isn't a legal issue here, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from.
To your third comment, I think we can both agree that Microsoft's censorship program is working as intended...to censor what it deems inappropriate on signs. However, I do not believe that Microsoft intended for the censorship program to cause instability, bandwidth sinks and server crashes. I find it interesting that you believe the latter part is part of the system "working as intended." Maybe I'm just not being clear enough. I don't care that the censorship exists, I do care that the program that initiates the censorship creates problems with hosting online games. That's what I'm trying to bring attention to, I hope that clears it up for you.
Overall comment. What means do I have to communicate with Microsoft? An email address? Sure I can send an email, but then my message is competing with gamers who are also sending emails about the thousands of games you mentioned. 4J has methods of more direct communication (emphasis on more not completely direct) with Microsoft and can focus the discussion on their product. That is something we as players do not have the means to do.
I think if this game had a matchmaking feature, allowing individual gamers to join random worlds and thus be exposed to all manner of who knows what. That might warrant a textual censor of some kind. Yet as it is, with Multiplayer limited to already existing friends, or friends of friends. It seems excessive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature!" ~ George Bernard Shaw
This is because we don't understand what the problem is. The only server crashing bug regarding signs that I am aware of 4J acknowledging is the bug when you edit a sign and place another sign immediately after, has been known to cause a crash. After I heard about it, I was able to quickly reproduce it as well, so it's not a tough bug to replicate. I haven't heard anyone make mention of the quantity of signs crippling a server or 4J come out and say "Hey guys, you probably don't want to go over X signs in your server while we work out a bug". It's the quantity of signs that is causing a problem.
I viewed the twitter post. It is in reference to pre 1.8.2. worlds crashing and that being somehow related to signs. It makes no mention of performance issues involving signs for the current version. This is the twitter post:
Question: @4JStudios and any word of the crashing prepatch worlds ?
Answer: @duivelbryan", serif"> Yes, we've found an issue with signs in an online game causing this. It will also be fixed.
"We've found an issue with signs" doesn't tell me anything. Is it the crash associated with editing and quickly placing two signs? Is it that the signs themselves regardless of the quantity causing problems in general? Is it once you go above X signs, issues start happening. This end all be all twitter post does not explain what issue they are aware of, and frankly they were answering a question regarding pre-patch worlds, so I don't even know if they acknowledge a sign issue within brand new 1.8.2 worlds.
They only have roughly 150 characters to post with so they cant make detailed posts. 4J Steve (or Stu) said it was a problem with a pre-patch world having too many signs.
To your first comment, when I open the Xbox Dashboard and I see space dedicated to not only highlight the game but highlight the latest updates, I would say Minecraft is pretty high (obviously not the only game MS cares about) on Microsoft's priorities. When is the last time you saw an info pane on updates for your Xbox Marketplace game? Most of the time I load up a game and receive a 3MB download I have no idea what it was for. I shouldn't even have to mention exceeding 4 million in sales, breaking Xbox Marketplace records, and trumping Call of Duty's weekly activity levels with hours played and players online, I'd say that has the attention of Microsoft. I can't think of too many games right now, purchased from the Marketplace mind you, that are getting this much attention. All the more reason to act now, while the community is strong and the game has the attention of Microsoft.
That would be a valid point... if it were the only game to ever become popular. For instance, which game do you think Microsoft benefitted from the most: minecraft or cod?
I repeat: I never said 4J has no voice. All I ever said on the matter was that Microsoft will do whatever it wants, and, in my opinion, mind you, 4J is unlikely to evoke a huge change in Microsoft.
To your second comment, check above the post that you quoted. I provided an excerpt directly from the ESRB website that makes it pretty clear online content and user created content is not rated by the ESRB. If Microsoft uses the appropriate disclaimer, as required and spelled out in the excerpt, Microsoft is not responsible for the online content as long as they properly inform the consumer that online content is not rated. There isn't a legal issue here, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from.
Apparently you completely ignored my multiple explanations of the legal issue. I'll give you a hint: offline content exists too.
To your third comment, I think we can both agree that Microsoft's censorship program is working as intended...to censor what it deems inappropriate on signs. However, I do not believe that Microsoft intended for the censorship program to cause instability, bandwidth sinks and server crashes. I find it interesting that you believe the latter part is part of the system "working as intended." Maybe I'm just not being clear enough. I don't care that the censorship exists, I do care that the program that initiates the censorship creates problems with hosting online games. That's what I'm trying to bring attention to, I hope that clears it up for you.
I thought that fact was obvious enough to ignore... Yes, the instability is a problem. However, removing censorship altogether is far too extreme of a solution compared to a simple bug fix. That's like getting a splinter in your finger and amputating your entire arm in order to eliminate the problem.
This argument has become repetitive and fruitless, and so I think I'll leave you with this.
Apparently you completely ignored my multiple explanations of the legal issue. I'll give you a hint: offline content exists too.
I'm legitimately attempting to see it from your perspective, however you are quite wrong. Go load a world in offline mode. Guess what? The censorship program is off, and you can fill signs with all matters of vulgarity. There you have it, the core offline experience that you believe Microsoft has a legal obligation to keep E10+ doesn't have the censorship. Why? ESRB ratings do not take into consideration user generated content, only publisher created content whether it be offline or online. If they aren't going to bother to censor all signs, then why add on a clunky, high resource scanning program for the online mode that results in degraded playability?
Just to make sure I understood your original argument and give you the benefit of the doubt that I missed your argument completely, I went back and checked it out.
I'm pretty sure signs work offline, too. The censor is there to completely eradicate any profanity from the game, not only to eliminate the possibility of a friend acting inappropriately. The difference is not only can a friend do so, but the player can too. Microsoft has an obligation to keep all features, both online and offline, appropriate for the rating which, in this case, is E.
This is incorrect. As I mentioned above, start an offline world and see for yourself.
I repeat: I never said 4J has no voice. All I ever said on the matter was that Microsoft will do whatever it wants, and, in my opinion, mind you, 4J is unlikely to evoke a huge change in Microsoft.
No where did I ever say that I'm looking to change Microsoft's policy or shatter the foundations of the company. In fact, does Microsoft even have a policy of censorship? Can you think of another game where Microsoft personally imposed a censorship program on someone else's game? I can't. Their implementation of it, which was poor at best, makes me think this is the first time Microsoft has done it too. As it stands now, it is a tacked on feature while well intentioned, negatively effects gameplay.
Well at the very least they should uncensor my Frickin' first name!!!!!!!!! If you put " Ian " on a sign it gets censored, but " Ian's " doesn't. So for my towns I have to put "Town of ____ Mayor Ian's" on the welcome signs.
Well at the very least they should uncensor my Frickin' first name!!!!!!!!! If you put " Ian " on a sign it gets censored, but " Ian's " doesn't. So for my towns I have to put "Town of ____ Mayor Ian's" on the welcome signs.
Richcraft - this suggests to me a brute force parser instead of a smart parser. Tweeting 4J about a blank sign filter would be a good way to go.
Eh, I can see where microsoft is coming from. Hopefully next TU, they will fix the censorship to where we can at least put our gamertags on our signs.
Why the heck is : :shadowdragon345's mansion" bad?
I completely agree with the OP on this one. Sign censorship is utterly ridiculous when there's so many things you can do in minecraft that would be far worse than spelling out a "bad" word. I understand the game is rated "E" by the ESRB, but there's also usually a clause to every game that says "Online Interactions are not rated by the ESRB". If parents let their kid play online they're taking the risk of their child running into some foul mouth kid with a mic. Whether it be 4J or Microsoft that imposes this censorship they seriously need to stop policing things that are already out of their control. I mean what's worse seeing that "bad" word on a sign or running into a kid that swears like a drunken sailor?
This argument has become repetitive and fruitless, and so I think I'll leave you with this.
Oh my GOD! I've argued with anti-moon landing nuts less bull headed than you. I'm trying to read this stupid thread to see if I'd have trouble with an adventure map I'm making and the whole last half is you arguing against points the Op didn't even make.
4J is the company in-charge of making sure the censorship program was implemented to Microsoft's standards, wouldn't it make sense that if there was a problem with it (like it causes lag) that they would be able to request a chance to fix it? And before you go off and say that I want Microsoft to change some company policy about censorship I'm NOT. Me and the guy you have been arguing with just want the program to not cause issues that make the game unplayable.
Please, just "Leave him with this" because you obviously can't admit that you misunderstood initially.
I don't think you're a politician, this isn't a political board, no one will think less of you for admitting you were wrong. Most people actually consider that to be a trait indicative of maturity.
I tried to name my mob traps with military code designations. IE "Trap Alpha", "Trap Bravo", ect,. The censorship wouldn't let me place a sign with "Trap Bravo". Instead each line read: "Censored". It's like wtf? Kind of ridiculous if you ask me.
Trap is censored word for some reason. When my wolf died in Minecraft, I wanted to make a tombstone. Apparently "Sparky" is censored as well.
The sign censorship is kind of lame, but it's nothing game breaking, just don't write anything deemed "offensive" by Microsoft.
Signs sometimes censor the stupidest things, in which I can't figure out a way that these are offensive:
Muffins
Moderator
There is nothing offensive here. Let's just get rid of this. Besides, someone is more likely to be offended by something someone says in party chat than what they write on a sign.-_-
If you're having issues with censored words, find a way to get around it if it's not an offensive word. For moderator you could just put Mod or something like that. Muffins...well...you're not that dirty minded to see why it gets censored but I'd suggest replacing the F's with symbols of some sort.
It's not game-breaking, and I've had limited to no issues (mostly since I rarely if ever decide to go on a swearing frenzy via signs), but can see where others may want to have a lot of signs in a big community map and have issues with it. Just work around the problem until it is fixed. This is a Microsoft Covering It's Ass problem...because McDonald's has to do it too..
Mostly it's just pointless. If I wanted to I could make a sculpture of 2 giant butt cheeks excreting lava right by the spawn point. Sure it would take some time, depeding on how large of a fanny I would make. But if wanted to profanely insult anyone who plays my world, I could do it without a single sign. Rather vividly. So why bother with censoring to such stupid levels.
To your first comment, when I open the Xbox Dashboard and I see space dedicated to not only highlight the game but highlight the latest updates, I would say Minecraft is pretty high (obviously not the only game MS cares about) on Microsoft's priorities. When is the last time you saw an info pane on updates for your Xbox Marketplace game? Most of the time I load up a game and receive a 3MB download I have no idea what it was for. I shouldn't even have to mention exceeding 4 million in sales, breaking Xbox Marketplace records, and trumping Call of Duty's weekly activity levels with hours played and players online, I'd say that has the attention of Microsoft. I can't think of too many games right now, purchased from the Marketplace mind you, that are getting this much attention. All the more reason to act now, while the community is strong and the game has the attention of Microsoft.
To your second comment, check above the post that you quoted. I provided an excerpt directly from the ESRB website that makes it pretty clear online content and user created content is not rated by the ESRB. If Microsoft uses the appropriate disclaimer, as required and spelled out in the excerpt, Microsoft is not responsible for the online content as long as they properly inform the consumer that online content is not rated. There isn't a legal issue here, so I'm not sure where you are getting this from.
To your third comment, I think we can both agree that Microsoft's censorship program is working as intended...to censor what it deems inappropriate on signs. However, I do not believe that Microsoft intended for the censorship program to cause instability, bandwidth sinks and server crashes. I find it interesting that you believe the latter part is part of the system "working as intended." Maybe I'm just not being clear enough. I don't care that the censorship exists, I do care that the program that initiates the censorship creates problems with hosting online games. That's what I'm trying to bring attention to, I hope that clears it up for you.
Overall comment. What means do I have to communicate with Microsoft? An email address? Sure I can send an email, but then my message is competing with gamers who are also sending emails about the thousands of games you mentioned. 4J has methods of more direct communication (emphasis on more not completely direct) with Microsoft and can focus the discussion on their product. That is something we as players do not have the means to do.
They only have roughly 150 characters to post with so they cant make detailed posts. 4J Steve (or Stu) said it was a problem with a pre-patch world having too many signs.
That would be a valid point... if it were the only game to ever become popular. For instance, which game do you think Microsoft benefitted from the most: minecraft or cod?
I repeat: I never said 4J has no voice. All I ever said on the matter was that Microsoft will do whatever it wants, and, in my opinion, mind you, 4J is unlikely to evoke a huge change in Microsoft.
Apparently you completely ignored my multiple explanations of the legal issue. I'll give you a hint: offline content exists too.
I thought that fact was obvious enough to ignore... Yes, the instability is a problem. However, removing censorship altogether is far too extreme of a solution compared to a simple bug fix. That's like getting a splinter in your finger and amputating your entire arm in order to eliminate the problem.
This argument has become repetitive and fruitless, and so I think I'll leave you with this.
I'm legitimately attempting to see it from your perspective, however you are quite wrong. Go load a world in offline mode. Guess what? The censorship program is off, and you can fill signs with all matters of vulgarity. There you have it, the core offline experience that you believe Microsoft has a legal obligation to keep E10+ doesn't have the censorship. Why? ESRB ratings do not take into consideration user generated content, only publisher created content whether it be offline or online. If they aren't going to bother to censor all signs, then why add on a clunky, high resource scanning program for the online mode that results in degraded playability?
Just to make sure I understood your original argument and give you the benefit of the doubt that I missed your argument completely, I went back and checked it out.
This is incorrect. As I mentioned above, start an offline world and see for yourself.
No where did I ever say that I'm looking to change Microsoft's policy or shatter the foundations of the company. In fact, does Microsoft even have a policy of censorship? Can you think of another game where Microsoft personally imposed a censorship program on someone else's game? I can't. Their implementation of it, which was poor at best, makes me think this is the first time Microsoft has done it too. As it stands now, it is a tacked on feature while well intentioned, negatively effects gameplay.
Richcraft - this suggests to me a brute force parser instead of a smart parser. Tweeting 4J about a blank sign filter would be a good way to go.
Why the heck is : :shadowdragon345's mansion" bad?
Oh my GOD! I've argued with anti-moon landing nuts less bull headed than you. I'm trying to read this stupid thread to see if I'd have trouble with an adventure map I'm making and the whole last half is you arguing against points the Op didn't even make.
4J is the company in-charge of making sure the censorship program was implemented to Microsoft's standards, wouldn't it make sense that if there was a problem with it (like it causes lag) that they would be able to request a chance to fix it? And before you go off and say that I want Microsoft to change some company policy about censorship I'm NOT. Me and the guy you have been arguing with just want the program to not cause issues that make the game unplayable.
Please, just "Leave him with this" because you obviously can't admit that you misunderstood initially.
I don't think you're a politician, this isn't a political board, no one will think less of you for admitting you were wrong. Most people actually consider that to be a trait indicative of maturity.
Trap is censored word for some reason. When my wolf died in Minecraft, I wanted to make a tombstone. Apparently "Sparky" is censored as well.
Signs sometimes censor the stupidest things, in which I can't figure out a way that these are offensive:
Muffins
Moderator
There is nothing offensive here. Let's just get rid of this. Besides, someone is more likely to be offended by something someone says in party chat than what they write on a sign.-_-
It's not game-breaking, and I've had limited to no issues (mostly since I rarely if ever decide to go on a swearing frenzy via signs), but can see where others may want to have a lot of signs in a big community map and have issues with it. Just work around the problem until it is fixed. This is a Microsoft Covering It's Ass problem...because McDonald's has to do it too..