Excuse me for asking but, why would you be that concerned about people making the game boring for themselves? If that's the case, then you should be conerned about that fact that I spent 2+ hours generating Obsidian for a project because it was that only way I could get it. If you really want to discuss boring, lol
Seriously though, as noble as your statement sounds, it still doesn't explain how it affects your enjoyment of the game. As selfish as it might come across, I don't really care if people are boring themselves or not. It doesn't affect me in the least. Some people might find generating materials to be extremely boring. Are you just as concerned for those people?
That isn't the same kind of boring. If you get tired of generating obsidian, you can go do something else.
I've played the PC version long enough to know what happens when someone discovers the ability to give themselves everything they want. I play on a server with someone who stopped playing Minecraft for over a year because he abused TMI and other mods on the PC that give you access to everything in the game the same way Creative will for us. Those people will burn through everything they can think of that's fun until they run out of things to do.
Why does it need to affect my enjoyment of the game for me to be concerned about others? If I see someone in a car accident, should I not be concerned because it doesn't affect my life in any way?
The problem is that many, including I, believe that it will affect us. In direct gameplay, dear Lord no! However, let's bring over the entire Minecraft experience into this. A majority enjoys competitive Survival building. It is going up to the point where you can completely disguise a Creative build as a Survival creation. I and others do not want that to happen.
But that boils down to the integrity of the people you play with. Not having creative mode is just not going to stop some people from passing off duped buildings as being legit. If they're going to be dishonest, then they're going to be dishonest. Show me a world where any amount of programming has successfully prevented people from finding a way around it anyway, and I'll show you a programmer's utopia.
Continually bucking and trying to literally stop a whole mode that really benefits those people who HONESTLY don't want to play survival is, in short, selfish. A LOT of people who play minecraft will NEVER join an online survivalist game and really just want some building convenience to keep from getting bored mining and mining and mining. THEY are consumers of the game just as validly as those who purchased it to run survival challenges. Trying to force all the programming in the game to cater to just one type of user ultimately limits the sales of the game. Continually trying to halt the change just to try to stop a few dishonest players who have already shown that they're prepared to dupe anyway just doesn't make sense. Sorry.
The problem is that many, including I, believe that it will affect us. In direct gameplay, dear Lord no! However, let's bring over the entire Minecraft experience into this. A majority enjoys competitive Survival building. It is going up to the point where you can completely disguise a Creative build as a Survival creation. I and others do not want that to happen.
The main argument against that is that I shouldn't play that way because it is the wrong way. Honestly, Minecraft was created for how I want to play, and this is not to be violated.
How would a Creative build affect you? C'mon, really. How would someone else's creations affect you? Basically it just sounds as though it takes people's ability away to pat themselves on the back and get a pat on the back from others. I think that's really the crux of the argument.
When Creative mode is implemented, it will be with the intention of being used. An in-game feature. How someone uses it is totally up to each individual.
But that boils down to the integrity of the people you play with. Not having creative mode is just not going to stop some people from passing off duped buildings as being legit. If they're going to be dishonest, then they're going to be dishonest. Show me a world where any amount of programming has successfully prevented people from finding a way around it anyway, and I'll show you a programmer's utopia.
Continually bucking and trying to literally stop a whole mode that really benefits those people who HONESTLY don't want to play survival in survival modes is, in short, selfish. A LOT of people who play minecraft will NEVER join an online survivalist game and really just want some building convenience to keep from getting bored mining and mining and mining. THEY are consumers of the game just as validly as those who purchased it to run survival challenges. Trying to force all the programming in the game to cater to just one type of user ultimately limits the sales of the game. Continually trying to halt the change just to try to stop a few dishonest players who have already shown that they're prepared to dupe anyway just doesn't make sense. Sorry.
The duplication glitch is a thing of the past; now 4J Studios is telling players directly, "YOU CAN HIDE YOUR BUILDS AND MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY WERE BUILT IN SURVIVAL MODE!"
That selfishness argument goes both ways. From my perspective, you are being selfish for only wanting your side to be appeased. Yes, many players dislike the Survival aspect of the game. That is why there is Creative Mode.
How would a Creative build affect you? C'mon, really. How would someone else's creations affect you? Basically it just sounds as though it takes people's ability away to pat themselves on the back and get a pat on the back from others. I think that's really the crux of the argument.
It is just many people's way of playing. Someone else's creations affect me as much as Creative-Survival switching could positively affect you.
When Creative mode is implemented, it will be with the intention of being used. An in-game feature. How someone uses it is totally up to each individual
From a close-minded perspective, yes, nobody is adversely impacted whatsoever and only benefit comes. However, look at my signature and see how things can turn. I must hope that the company changes their mind sometime before the next update.
It is just many people's way of playing. Someone else's creations affect me as much as Creative-Survival switching could positively affect you.
You still haven't really explained HOW this affects you? The loss of bragging rights maybe because you were willing to stand in front of a generator or in a mine for however many hours were required? I'm not sure where you're really coming from so maybe you could elaborate further on the negative impact this will have on you as I can see none (other than the obvious one stated above).
The duplication glitch is a thing of the past; now 4J Studios is telling players directly, "YOU CAN HIDE YOUR BUILDS AND MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY WERE BUILT IN SURVIVAL MODE!"
That selfishness argument goes both ways. From my perspective, you are being selfish for only wanting your side to be appeased. Yes, many players dislike the Survival aspect of the game. That is why there is Creative Mode.
It is just many people's way of playing. Someone else's creations affect me as much as Creative-Survival switching could positively affect you.
From a close-minded perspective, yes, nobody is adversely impacted whatsoever and only benefit comes. However, look at my signature and see how things can turn. I must hope that the company changes their mind sometime before the next update.
Please cite the source for the direct quote you apply to 4J. When attributing a direct quote is it only good ettiquette to cite your source. Otherwise, I might be inclined to believe you're being dishonest and putting words in their mouths.
You still haven't really explained HOW this affects you? The loss of bragging rights maybe because you were willing to stand in front of a generator or in a mine for however many hours were required? I'm not sure where you're really coming from so maybe you could elaborate further on the negative impact this will have on you as I can see none (other than the obvious one stated above).
I just build competitively for the fun of it. If someone can fly and have unlimited resources, that makes a small difference in time and quality.
Please cite the source for the direct quote you apply to 4J. When attributing a direct quote is it only good ettiquette to cite your source. Otherwise, I might be inclined to believe you're being dishonest and putting words in their mouths.
The point of Minecraft is to play the way you want to. Are you trying to limit me?
The point of Minecraft is to play the way you want to.
Funny enough we've come full circle and this is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.
The really funny part is that Creative mode doesn't necessarily mean that awesome creations come with unlimited resources. It's a simple fact of human nature.
I just build competitively for the fun of it. If someone can fly and have unlimited resources, that makes a small difference in time and quality.
The point of Minecraft is to play the way you want to. Are you trying to limit me?
May I ask - How does asking for a source of a direct quote (i.e. presented in quotation marks) equate to trying to limit how you play Minecraft? I take it by your evasiveness that you're simply unable to cite the source... and, therefore, it's quite probable that 4J never actually said it or at least never said it that way. Therefore, it doesn't legitimately support any argument you're trying to make... You seem to be trying to pass off a made-up quote as being legit... much like the people you complain about trying to pass off duped and creative mode builds as being legit, eh? Pot calling kettle black perhaps?
Both sides have some really good points and arguments in here about creative/survival being in the same game. It will have its pros and cons and we could debate for a year and still have reasons why it should or shouldn't be. At the end of the day, all that is needed is a little honesty and integrity from those building and posting things. If someone has to lie about how they built something in a video game then things are in a pretty sad state for them. Maybe I'll have one corner of my map where I turn on creative and build all the things that would take me days to gather resources for and have one corner where I build all of my survival stuff and only use what I mine and gather. I'm not going to label something that's it not though if I choose to show it off.
No side is right or wrong, just differing opinions. Yea, it could have some affect on the rest of us with "I'm Bored" and "Epic Buuuuuiiiiild" forum chatter but that will always be part of the game community. That's life, nothing we can do will change the fact that someone will complain or be unhappy or bored or throw something out as being genuine when its not. No use losing sleep over it or picking a fight just for fighting sake.
No use losing sleep over it or picking a fight just for fighting sake.
I don't really see this thread as people picking fights. More like a heathly debate which I'm finding interesting.
The really intriguing aspect that I think that people are overlooking is the following: all Creative mode is accomplishing is cutting down the time is takes to create those amazing building ideas that are in your head. If you have a build that you really want to accomplish, you are going to do it no matter what. If people find enjoyment spending hours and hours on end gathering materials, so be it. If others want the ability to have those materials at their disposal so that they can get on with being "creative", then who am I to fault them? Both methods result in the exact same outcome. Simple.
I don't really see this thread as people picking fights. More like a heathly debate which I'm finding interesting.
The really intriguing aspect that I think that people are overlooking is the following: all Creative mode is accomplishing is cutting down the time is takes to create those amazing building ideas that are in your head. If you have a build that you really want to accomplish, you are going to do it no matter what. If people find enjoyment spending hours and hours on end gathering materials, so be it. If others want the ability to have those materials at their disposal so that they can get on with being "creative", then who am I to fault them? Both methods result in the exact same outcome. Simple.
And I agree with that completely. The only thing I don't understand is why they must switch back to Survival Mode if they know it causes a negative effect on other players.
I don't really see this thread as people picking fights. More like a heathly debate which I'm finding interesting.
The really intriguing aspect that I think that people are overlooking is the following: all Creative mode is accomplishing is cutting down the time is takes to create those amazing building ideas that are in your head. If you have a build that you really want to accomplish, you are going to do it no matter what. If people find enjoyment spending hours and hours on end gathering materials, so be it. If others want the ability to have those materials at their disposal so that they can get on with being "creative", then who am I to fault them? Both methods result in the exact same outcome. Simple.
I meant in general about picking fights, sorry for not specifying. I have seen some nasty arguments on here for no reason. This thread has definitely been a good discussion, some very interesting perspectives and thoughts in here.
And I agree with that completely. The only thing I don't understand is why they must switch back to Survival Mode if they know it causes a negative effect on other players.
At the same time though there are a lot of players that really just don't care it, switching between the two doesn't affect them at all. How do you come to a balance? I think it gets to a point where we as players have to decide how we are going to let something affect us and what we do about it from there.
And I agree with that completely. The only thing I don't understand is why they must switch back to Survival Mode if they know it causes a negative effect on other players.
I'm still having a hard time grasping the negative effect that you're talking about. Is it because they created their build faster than you? In essence that's really all it boils down to. Who really cares how long it takes? The final outcome will be exactly the same, no matter how long it takes.
I'm a Survival player. I actually enjoy putting the materials together myself. But I've had one particular instance when I was building a drop-kill mob spawner and was short by a few cobble stone. What's the harm in going into creative, getting those last few blocks that I need and finishing the job? Instead of making my way down 24 blocks to go get them.
Believe it or not, there are those of us who will only use Creative mode as a "go-to" used in instances when those last few blocks will help out. Yes, others will use it extenseively but guess what - it really doesn't matter. We are all coming to the same result.
And I agree with that completely. The only thing I don't understand is why they must switch back to Survival Mode if they know it causes a negative effect on other players.
... and here even you and I can agree (only to a point I suspect - sigh). If a host puts in place additional "rules" for a world (e.g., like limiting play in that world to any of the survival modes - easy, normal, hard, etc.), then ALL the players entering that world should be prepared to play in that mode and abide by the host's requests/rules. Otherwise, they should leave that game and play in some other world that has rules they can abide with. Having a variety of worlds with different rules of play does provide some opportunity for players with different abilities and interests to find a world that agrees with their individual style of play... whatever it is.
Just because some players will abuse it, doesn't mean the entire mode is arbitrarily bad or that even allowing an option to switch between them is bad. For some people it will be a great convenience and they won't be affecting anyone else by using it. For example, most of the time, I play single player, offline. What I do in my world at any time does not affect anyone else but me, period.
Yes, some people will abuse it - but some of them are probably the same people who would find ways to "glitch" a method for switching, even if 4J doesn't put the switch in. Players who use it in worlds where the host has disallowed it are not abusing the game - they are abusing the host of that world. Hosts who use it and do not divulge it's use to their players are not abusing the game, they are abusing their players.
So, 4J has opted to introduce an honest way to switch for the convenience of people who are/will be honest about how and when they switch. They want to sell the game to more people. Adding options and variety into the game adds to the likelihood of selling more games to a wider age group with more varied interests, period. If Minecraft could only be about survival, I for one probably would have never purchased it. Fortunately, it can be about survivial; but it doesn't only have to be about survival.
TMI allows you to spawn in items to your game even in single player survival
That sounds so lame. Seriously why even bother playing the game if thats all you're going to do? You might as well call it SpawnCraft since you never have to mine again. So boring
I don't really see this thread as people picking fights. More like a heathly debate which I'm finding interesting.
The really intriguing aspect that I think that people are overlooking is the following: all Creative mode is accomplishing is cutting down the time is takes to create those amazing building ideas that are in your head. If you have a build that you really want to accomplish, you are going to do it no matter what. If people find enjoyment spending hours and hours on end gathering materials, so be it. If others want the ability to have those materials at their disposal so that they can get on with being "creative", then who am I to fault them? Both methods result in the exact same outcome. Simple.
... and here even you and I can agree (only to a point I suspect - sigh). If a host puts in place additional "rules" for a world (e.g., like limiting play in that world to any of the survival modes - easy, normal, hard, etc.), then ALL the players entering that world should be prepared to play in that mode and abide by the host's requests/rules. Otherwise, they should leave that game and play in some other world that has rules they can abide with. Having a variety of worlds with different rules of play does provide some opportunity for players with different abilities and interests to find a world that agrees with their individual style of play... whatever it is.
Just because some players will abuse it, doesn't mean the entire mode is arbitrarily bad or that even allowing an option to switch between them is bad. For some people it will be a great convenience and they won't be affecting anyone else by using it. For example, most of the time, I play single player, offline. What I do in my world at any time does not affect anyone else but me, period.
Yes, some people will abuse it - but some of them are probably the same people who would find ways to "glitch" a method for switching, even if 4J doesn't put the switch in. Players who use it in worlds where the host has disallowed it are not abusing the game - they are abusing the host of that world. Hosts who use it and do not divulge it's use to their players are not abusing the game, they are abusing their players.
So, 4J has opted to introduce an honest way to switch for the convenience of people who are/will be honest about how and when they switch. They want to sell the game to more people. Adding options and variety into the game adds to the likelihood of selling more games to a wider age group with more varied interests, period. If Minecraft could only be about survival, I for one probably would have never purchased it. Fortunately, it can be about survivial; but it doesn't only have to be about survival.
And it doesn't have to be about Creative either because imo Creative sucks and seems boring and I don't seem to understand what all the fuss is about to me it seems like glorified legos but that is just my opinion and I'm entitled to that just like you are entitled to yours and JDawg is entitled to his. We will soon have both gamemodes and maybe be able to switch modes so you'll get what you want and I'll still get the Hunger bar and the rest of the goodies from 1.8 that most people are actually looking forward to. The didvided groups will still get to play the way they want and w/Creative mode we will see the last of the dupe cheat but probably not the last of people passing off creative builds as Survival builds but to each is own as long as I still get to play SUrvival Mode and you guys get to play Creative. Too bad we can't meet somewhere in the middle w/our arguments/debates.. At least it hasn't gotten Hostile yet
I've played the PC version long enough to know what happens when someone discovers the ability to give themselves everything they want. I play on a server with someone who stopped playing Minecraft for over a year because he abused TMI and other mods on the PC that give you access to everything in the game the same way Creative will for us. Those people will burn through everything they can think of that's fun until they run out of things to do.
Why does it need to affect my enjoyment of the game for me to be concerned about others? If I see someone in a car accident, should I not be concerned because it doesn't affect my life in any way?
But that boils down to the integrity of the people you play with. Not having creative mode is just not going to stop some people from passing off duped buildings as being legit. If they're going to be dishonest, then they're going to be dishonest. Show me a world where any amount of programming has successfully prevented people from finding a way around it anyway, and I'll show you a programmer's utopia.
Continually bucking and trying to literally stop a whole mode that really benefits those people who HONESTLY don't want to play survival is, in short, selfish. A LOT of people who play minecraft will NEVER join an online survivalist game and really just want some building convenience to keep from getting bored mining and mining and mining. THEY are consumers of the game just as validly as those who purchased it to run survival challenges. Trying to force all the programming in the game to cater to just one type of user ultimately limits the sales of the game. Continually trying to halt the change just to try to stop a few dishonest players who have already shown that they're prepared to dupe anyway just doesn't make sense. Sorry.
How would a Creative build affect you? C'mon, really. How would someone else's creations affect you? Basically it just sounds as though it takes people's ability away to pat themselves on the back and get a pat on the back from others. I think that's really the crux of the argument.
When Creative mode is implemented, it will be with the intention of being used. An in-game feature. How someone uses it is totally up to each individual.
The duplication glitch is a thing of the past; now 4J Studios is telling players directly, "YOU CAN HIDE YOUR BUILDS AND MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEY WERE BUILT IN SURVIVAL MODE!"
That selfishness argument goes both ways. From my perspective, you are being selfish for only wanting your side to be appeased. Yes, many players dislike the Survival aspect of the game. That is why there is Creative Mode.
It is just many people's way of playing. Someone else's creations affect me as much as Creative-Survival switching could positively affect you.
From a close-minded perspective, yes, nobody is adversely impacted whatsoever and only benefit comes. However, look at my signature and see how things can turn. I must hope that the company changes their mind sometime before the next update.
You still haven't really explained HOW this affects you? The loss of bragging rights maybe because you were willing to stand in front of a generator or in a mine for however many hours were required? I'm not sure where you're really coming from so maybe you could elaborate further on the negative impact this will have on you as I can see none (other than the obvious one stated above).
Please cite the source for the direct quote you apply to 4J. When attributing a direct quote is it only good ettiquette to cite your source. Otherwise, I might be inclined to believe you're being dishonest and putting words in their mouths.
I just build competitively for the fun of it. If someone can fly and have unlimited resources, that makes a small difference in time and quality.
The point of Minecraft is to play the way you want to. Are you trying to limit me?
Funny enough we've come full circle and this is EXACTLY the point I was trying to make.
The really funny part is that Creative mode doesn't necessarily mean that awesome creations come with unlimited resources. It's a simple fact of human nature.
May I ask - How does asking for a source of a direct quote (i.e. presented in quotation marks) equate to trying to limit how you play Minecraft? I take it by your evasiveness that you're simply unable to cite the source... and, therefore, it's quite probable that 4J never actually said it or at least never said it that way. Therefore, it doesn't legitimately support any argument you're trying to make... You seem to be trying to pass off a made-up quote as being legit... much like the people you complain about trying to pass off duped and creative mode builds as being legit, eh? Pot calling kettle black perhaps?
No side is right or wrong, just differing opinions. Yea, it could have some affect on the rest of us with "I'm Bored" and "Epic Buuuuuiiiiild" forum chatter but that will always be part of the game community. That's life, nothing we can do will change the fact that someone will complain or be unhappy or bored or throw something out as being genuine when its not. No use losing sleep over it or picking a fight just for fighting sake.
I don't really see this thread as people picking fights. More like a heathly debate which I'm finding interesting.
The really intriguing aspect that I think that people are overlooking is the following: all Creative mode is accomplishing is cutting down the time is takes to create those amazing building ideas that are in your head. If you have a build that you really want to accomplish, you are going to do it no matter what. If people find enjoyment spending hours and hours on end gathering materials, so be it. If others want the ability to have those materials at their disposal so that they can get on with being "creative", then who am I to fault them? Both methods result in the exact same outcome. Simple.
And I agree with that completely. The only thing I don't understand is why they must switch back to Survival Mode if they know it causes a negative effect on other players.
I meant in general about picking fights, sorry for not specifying. I have seen some nasty arguments on here for no reason. This thread has definitely been a good discussion, some very interesting perspectives and thoughts in here.
At the same time though there are a lot of players that really just don't care it, switching between the two doesn't affect them at all. How do you come to a balance? I think it gets to a point where we as players have to decide how we are going to let something affect us and what we do about it from there.
I'm still having a hard time grasping the negative effect that you're talking about. Is it because they created their build faster than you? In essence that's really all it boils down to. Who really cares how long it takes? The final outcome will be exactly the same, no matter how long it takes.
I'm a Survival player. I actually enjoy putting the materials together myself. But I've had one particular instance when I was building a drop-kill mob spawner and was short by a few cobble stone. What's the harm in going into creative, getting those last few blocks that I need and finishing the job? Instead of making my way down 24 blocks to go get them.
Believe it or not, there are those of us who will only use Creative mode as a "go-to" used in instances when those last few blocks will help out. Yes, others will use it extenseively but guess what - it really doesn't matter. We are all coming to the same result.
... and here even you and I can agree (only to a point I suspect - sigh). If a host puts in place additional "rules" for a world (e.g., like limiting play in that world to any of the survival modes - easy, normal, hard, etc.), then ALL the players entering that world should be prepared to play in that mode and abide by the host's requests/rules. Otherwise, they should leave that game and play in some other world that has rules they can abide with. Having a variety of worlds with different rules of play does provide some opportunity for players with different abilities and interests to find a world that agrees with their individual style of play... whatever it is.
Just because some players will abuse it, doesn't mean the entire mode is arbitrarily bad or that even allowing an option to switch between them is bad. For some people it will be a great convenience and they won't be affecting anyone else by using it. For example, most of the time, I play single player, offline. What I do in my world at any time does not affect anyone else but me, period.
Yes, some people will abuse it - but some of them are probably the same people who would find ways to "glitch" a method for switching, even if 4J doesn't put the switch in. Players who use it in worlds where the host has disallowed it are not abusing the game - they are abusing the host of that world. Hosts who use it and do not divulge it's use to their players are not abusing the game, they are abusing their players.
So, 4J has opted to introduce an honest way to switch for the convenience of people who are/will be honest about how and when they switch. They want to sell the game to more people. Adding options and variety into the game adds to the likelihood of selling more games to a wider age group with more varied interests, period. If Minecraft could only be about survival, I for one probably would have never purchased it. Fortunately, it can be about survivial; but it doesn't only have to be about survival.
That sounds so lame. Seriously why even bother playing the game if thats all you're going to do? You might as well call it SpawnCraft since you never have to mine again. So boring
And it doesn't have to be about Creative either because imo Creative sucks and seems boring and I don't seem to understand what all the fuss is about to me it seems like glorified legos but that is just my opinion and I'm entitled to that just like you are entitled to yours and JDawg is entitled to his. We will soon have both gamemodes and maybe be able to switch modes so you'll get what you want and I'll still get the Hunger bar and the rest of the goodies from 1.8 that most people are actually looking forward to. The didvided groups will still get to play the way they want and w/Creative mode we will see the last of the dupe cheat but probably not the last of people passing off creative builds as Survival builds but to each is own as long as I still get to play SUrvival Mode and you guys get to play Creative. Too bad we can't meet somewhere in the middle w/our arguments/debates.. At least it hasn't gotten Hostile yet