So I had an interesting night of testing. My test 1800 block loop of redstone handled everything I threw at it like a champ. It triggered a rs nor latch that was 800 blocks away from me and the latch sent the signal along to where I was standing. I sent two pulses to an AND gate 800 blocks away that required a specific delay between the pulses and it worked fine. I triggered a piston that sent the signal along and that worked. I even triggered a mine cart to move on a track that had to receive the signal and get switched so the mine cart would go on the correct track with the detector rail to send the signal on to me, and that worked!
Occasionally the signal would get stuck on in the redstone line somewhere which I suspect is a corrupted block, but another pulse would clear it. That could be a problem for some more complicated circuits.
It turns out all my problems before were rendering problems as Nose_job said. Here are some examples
I know this piston was triggered because the signal kept going. That block is actually up and the torch on the left is really off.
Here I placed some redstone next to the line that looked on. You can see the line is actually off because the newly placed dust does not light up.
I think Redstone on the Xbox will run over any distance and power anything at a distance. The problem is that sometimes a block might get stuck on and this could cause problems. I also learned that you can't trust what you see when dealing with redstone over large distances.
Here is new information that puts a bit of a damper on our long distance redstone plans:
The world does NOT completely load when you first load the world. It appears that only about 150 to 170 blocks in any direction from the player actually load. My long distance redstone line works fine when I've flown completely around it, but utterly fails when world is first loaded. I set up some distance tests with regular pistons facing up pushing a block. I went back to the trigger of my line at -400, -400. Then I saved and exited, reloaded, waited 15 seconds for world to load, hit button, waited 10 seconds for signal transfer. Nothing came back on my large redstone loop. This is what I saw with the pistons:
I found I could move the button several blocks either way before this distance limit changed. I assume this is due to chunk boundaries. Basically the redstone signal would travel about 150 to 170 blocks away from me until it was lost.
This means that vast rail networks requiring redstone signals sent to the other side of the map (or any other long distance devices) are only possible if you first travel near the necessary chunks every time you load the world, which kind of defeats the purpose.
Here is new information that puts a bit of a damper on our long distance redstone plans:
The world does NOT completely load when you first load the world. It appears that only about 150 to 170 blocks in any direction from the player actually load. My long distance redstone line works fine when I've flown completely around it, but utterly fails when world is first loaded. I set up some distance tests with regular pistons facing up pushing a block. I went back to the trigger of my line at -400, -400. Then I saved and exited, reloaded, waited 15 seconds for world to load, hit button, waited 10 seconds for signal transfer. Nothing came back on my large redstone loop. This is what I saw with the pistons:
I found I could move the button several blocks either way before this distance limit changed. I assume this is due to chunk boundaries. Basically the redstone signal would travel about 150 to 170 blocks away from me until it was lost.
This means that vast rail networks requiring redstone signals sent to the other side of the map (or any other long distance devices) are only possible if you first travel near the necessary chunks every time you load the world, which kind of defeats the purpose.
Excellent work, but don't give up yet! I think you have already found the workaround. Didn't you mention sending the change pulse along the rail to be triggered by a rail switch as the player passes it to move it on to the next station? LoL does that make sense? Maybe have these pulse detectors at every 150 blocks so that the chunk loads before you send the signal to the next station? I'm kinda glad I stuck with my simple minecart system instead of one of those complex ones. I can load my game and ride around the circumference of my map and hit many different build areas in about 5 min
Yes, I think I am back to my relay station plan for my track system. When I did this serious testing with redstone over long distances, I first thought that I had found that those relays would not be necessary since it appeared the chunks were loaded all the time. I was glad because the relay stations would be a lot of work, but I was also a bit bummed because I was pretty proud of their design and how well they worked! Now I get/have to use them again! I've been redesigning them a bit to use what I believe is more of a binary system than a unary system. This is based on some things that Nose_job has said and I think I'm beginning to understand. Either that or I've created something new that will completely revolutionize the entire universe... but that would require more testing
Just thought I would add some info and confirm what sixstring has said. I went on my test world to do some testing of my own, my results were the same as sixstrings. I used my digital countdown clock, which uses a piston tape setup for memory as the test piece. I turned it on and flew to the other end of the world for 15 mins. I came back and it was fine and still running. However leaving it on and save quitting outside of the chunks it was in (outside the render distance) broke it.
However leaving it on and save quitting outside of the chunks it was in (outside the render distance) broke it.
Sadly, this will always happen until 4J or Mojang come up with a solution. Idle and active redstone items have two different block IDs, respectfully. Because of this, redstone tiles are "frozen" when the game is saved, or when a chunk is unloaded in the PC version. Torch-based clocks have a chance to restart themselves when a chunk is loaded, but generally interaction is required.
I would also like to applaud sixstringstrummer's efforts in the field. He's been exploring this new frontier and conducting more tests than I have, and I'm the OP! At this point, it's practically his thread.
It's a bug where a positive charge is "trapped" within a solid block. Corrupted blocks can also neutralize signals, disabling a line. They're a nuisance, but they can be removed with a simple workaround.
Locate the block that is causing your problem.
Break the redstone tile, along with the block it is on.
I would also like to applaud sixstringstrummer's efforts in the field. He's been exploring this new frontier and conducting more tests than I have, and I'm the OP! At this point, it's practically his thread.
Thanks, Nose_Job! It's been fun and I think it is good to have a lot of this info in one thread for those who might be searching for it. I think I've done about all the testing on this issue that I can think of and have a pretty good handle on it. I'm working on my binary station selectors for my minecart system now using this information. You inspired me to rethink my station selector designs and I can now get a whole lot more options out of a lot less "channels". If I've listed the possibilities right, instead of getting 4 stations out of those 4 channels, I now get 14! I've got most of it working - two stations talking to each other and transferring correct "code"... just need to figure out a few bugs to keep the outputs getting looped back into the input.
Thanks, Nose_Job! It's been fun and I think it is good to have a lot of this info in one thread for those who might be searching for it. I think I've done about all the testing on this issue that I can think of and have a pretty good handle on it. I'm working on my binary station selectors for my minecart system now using this information. You inspired me to rethink my station selector designs and I can now get a whole lot more options out of a lot less "channels". If I've listed the possibilities right, instead of getting 4 stations out of those 4 channels, I now get 14! I've got most of it working - two stations talking to each other and transferring correct "code"... just need to figure out a few bugs to keep the outputs getting looped back into the input.
With 4 digits in binary you can get 16 digits when decoded to unary, if you also have an output for 0. You can have a control wire and use it as an enabler on top of your decoder, to disable all outputs. This way you can get the most locations out of the size of your data.
Just a fun fact: 4 bits of binary information is called a nibble/nyble.
Not sure if my design works this way... I've just made this thing up as I went and purposely didn't look up how others have done it because I really enjoy the problem solving aspect of it. I've solved my output looping back into the input. I tried a bunch of different sorts of switches to cut off the input when the output was active - which were working but were rather clumsy. Then I realized that the fact that redstone only travels 15 blocks can be used to my advantage. I made it so the last repeater for the output is exactly 15 blocks to reach the main line repeater, but is at least 16 before it hits the repeater that goes back into the encoder/decoder. It's so simple it's ridiculous and works perfectly everytime!
Now the whole corrupted block thing is the bane of my redstone existence! My system is working perfectly right now - two encoders/decoders sending a signal on a two way redstone line back and forth. But about once out of every 5 tries a block of redstone gets stuck on somewhere in the system. This could kill any hopes of a rail system because it temporarily breaks the whole system! I have to locate the section where I can tell the problem is, then break one bit of dust at a time until I find the one that was stuck. What a pain!
Now the whole corrupted block thing is the bane of my redstone existence! My system is working perfectly right now - two encoders/decoders sending a signal on a two way redstone line back and forth. But about once out of every 5 tries a block of redstone gets stuck on somewhere in the system. This could kill any hopes of a rail system because it temporarily breaks the whole system! I have to locate the section where I can tell the problem is, then break one bit of dust at a time until I find the one that was stuck. What a pain!
You definitely shouldn't be getting them that often. Unless you haven't completely removed the existing corrupted blocks. Have you been removing the item and block, saving and exiting, yadda yadda, etc.? Also, it's pretty easy to tell which block is corrupted without guessing through trial and error. Just look for the piece of dust that's brighter than the rest of the line, as if it's being powered from that point. A bug involving a repeater or torch will be much more obvious to spot.
I'll admit I didn't always remove the whole block. I did a few times and it didn't seem to matter, but I could be wrong.
Soon I'm hoping to start a thread in the creations section for my rail system progress. I've figured out most things with the wiring and I think I'm ready for a large scale test. The switch to binary caused a lot of issue. I figured out nice compact button system to trigger any possible combination so that each button will represent 1 station but trigger the appropriate combination on the encoder/decoder. I was able to make it one wide so that the buttons can be right next to each other which is good because right now I'm looking at a possibility of 15 buttons. Getting my encoders/decoders built and sending signals back and forth worked out OK, but taking the state of those systems and translating it into whether or not to switch the track is a bit cumbersome, especially in situations where more than one "code" might have to switch a track - such as for branches off the main line that go to multiple stations. I think I have it figured out but it's a lot bigger than I would have liked. With each element that I figure out I think my dreams of ever building this thing in my survival world seem more and more impossible. It was much simpler to think of each channel controlling each station, but it has been an interesting challenge.
I'll admit I didn't always remove the whole block. I did a few times and it didn't seem to matter, but I could be wrong.
You must destroy the redstone tile, as well as the block it is attached to, as the block itself often causes the issue. Then you must save and exit the game. Then load the world up again, replace blocks, save the game, and you should be good to go.
Also, if one wishes to go far in practicing redstone engineering, they soon learn they have to abandon survival mode altogether. I'm sure the stations will be possible, though time consuming. But once you go any more complex, it just becomes a ridiculous and tedious idea to build these machines in a survival game. Any "real" redstone build I've ever completed has been built in creative mode, or with the assistance of a dupe glitch.
You must destroy the redstone tile, as well as the block it is attached to, as the block itself often causes the issue. Then you must save and exit the game. Then load the world up again, replace blocks, save the game, and you should be good to go.
Also, if one wishes to go far in practicing redstone engineering, they soon learn they have to abandon survival mode altogether. I'm sure the stations will be possible, though time consuming. But once you go any more complex, it just becomes a ridiculous and tedious idea to build these machines in a survival game. Any "real" redstone build I've ever completed has been built in creative mode, or with the assistance of a dupe glitch.
I've been messing around with the new update and haven't done much with this lately, but I haven't been noticing the corrupt block issue as much anymore. Probably because at some point I actually did what you said instead of just being lazy.
My hope is to start a survival world that I really build up and the rail system will sort of be the heart of that world. Problem is right now I'm still stuck in the update cycle. I was in my nether for a few hours last night (on hard!) and didn't find a nether fortress so no blazes for me. It's a bit disappointing, but I think I'll just spend more time in creative working on the rail system so whenever I finally get a world that has what I want I can be ready to implement it.
I've noticed a separate problem recently. My design for the encoders/decoders is working well, but it still seems like they glitch the very first time I send a signal after I load the world. If I send the signal a second time it works fine. My guess is this has something to do with redstone getting stuck when world saves. I think I may need to rig up a reset signal to send when I first load the world. Only problem is that if the signal won't travel more than about 150 blocks when the world first loads then it will never go to the other relay systems in the world.
I get really weird results the first time I send the signal after the world load. I use #'s for my "channels" (see, there I go again making up terminology). A code that would normally trigger 1 and 4 will instead trigger just 2 or something like that. If I send another signal after that first glitch it works just fine. I'll have to check to see if the far end of my device is more than 150 blocks from me when I load the world. Maybe I'm hitting the initial redstone distance limit without realizing it!
I have another question related to the original topic of this thread. If you had a really long minecart track with enough boosters for an empty minecart, what happens if you sent a minecart from where you are and it gets really far away from you? On the PC I believe that after about 150 blocks away or so the world is "unloaded" so what happens to that minecart? Does it just stop on the track? I wonder what happens on the xbox... What would be really cool is if the xbox loaded the chunks as the minecart traveled, but since it doesn't do that with redstone I can't imagine it would do it with the minecart.
I have another question related to the original topic of this thread. If you had a really long minecart track with enough boosters for an empty minecart, what happens if you sent a minecart from where you are and it gets really far away from you? On the PC I believe that after about 150 blocks away or so the world is "unloaded" so what happens to that minecart? Does it just stop on the track? I wonder what happens on the xbox... What would be really cool is if the xbox loaded the chunks as the minecart traveled, but since it doesn't do that with redstone I can't imagine it would do it with the minecart.
Actually, an unattended minecart loads chunks, players on the PC version use this method all the time, especially in large arenas that are heavily reliant on redstone working properly. I'm not sure why your system doesn't work on the first try, all chunks should be partially loaded after you discover and generate them, whether or not the world is freshly loaded. Maybe there are other states of chunk "loadage" besides unloaded, "half-loaded", and completely loaded. (Now I'm making up terminology. :P) It's possible, think of it as the different stages of REM sleep and how that affects the human brain. From an abstract point of view, it would be almost identical, except the deepness of sleep is how much chunk information is loaded into memory, and the brain activity is how the CPU handles this data. Okay... so not really identical, but it does make sense.
Occasionally the signal would get stuck on in the redstone line somewhere which I suspect is a corrupted block, but another pulse would clear it. That could be a problem for some more complicated circuits.
It turns out all my problems before were rendering problems as Nose_job said. Here are some examples
I know this piston was triggered because the signal kept going. That block is actually up and the torch on the left is really off.
Here I placed some redstone next to the line that looked on. You can see the line is actually off because the newly placed dust does not light up.
I think Redstone on the Xbox will run over any distance and power anything at a distance. The problem is that sometimes a block might get stuck on and this could cause problems. I also learned that you can't trust what you see when dealing with redstone over large distances.
The world does NOT completely load when you first load the world. It appears that only about 150 to 170 blocks in any direction from the player actually load. My long distance redstone line works fine when I've flown completely around it, but utterly fails when world is first loaded. I set up some distance tests with regular pistons facing up pushing a block. I went back to the trigger of my line at -400, -400. Then I saved and exited, reloaded, waited 15 seconds for world to load, hit button, waited 10 seconds for signal transfer. Nothing came back on my large redstone loop. This is what I saw with the pistons:
I found I could move the button several blocks either way before this distance limit changed. I assume this is due to chunk boundaries. Basically the redstone signal would travel about 150 to 170 blocks away from me until it was lost.
This means that vast rail networks requiring redstone signals sent to the other side of the map (or any other long distance devices) are only possible if you first travel near the necessary chunks every time you load the world, which kind of defeats the purpose.
Excellent work, but don't give up yet! I think you have already found the workaround. Didn't you mention sending the change pulse along the rail to be triggered by a rail switch as the player passes it to move it on to the next station? LoL does that make sense? Maybe have these pulse detectors at every 150 blocks so that the chunk loads before you send the signal to the next station? I'm kinda glad I stuck with my simple minecart system instead of one of those complex ones. I can load my game and ride around the circumference of my map and hit many different build areas in about 5 min
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Retired StaffSadly, this will always happen until 4J or Mojang come up with a solution. Idle and active redstone items have two different block IDs, respectfully. Because of this, redstone tiles are "frozen" when the game is saved, or when a chunk is unloaded in the PC version. Torch-based clocks have a chance to restart themselves when a chunk is loaded, but generally interaction is required.
I would also like to applaud sixstringstrummer's efforts in the field.
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Retired StaffIt's a bug where a positive charge is "trapped" within a solid block. Corrupted blocks can also neutralize signals, disabling a line. They're a nuisance, but they can be removed with a simple workaround.
At this point, everything should be hunky dory.
Thanks, Nose_Job! It's been fun and I think it is good to have a lot of this info in one thread for those who might be searching for it. I think I've done about all the testing on this issue that I can think of and have a pretty good handle on it. I'm working on my binary station selectors for my minecart system now using this information. You inspired me to rethink my station selector designs and I can now get a whole lot more options out of a lot less "channels". If I've listed the possibilities right, instead of getting 4 stations out of those 4 channels, I now get 14! I've got most of it working - two stations talking to each other and transferring correct "code"... just need to figure out a few bugs to keep the outputs getting looped back into the input.
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Retired StaffWith 4 digits in binary you can get 16 digits when decoded to unary, if you also have an output for 0. You can have a control wire and use it as an enabler on top of your decoder, to disable all outputs. This way you can get the most locations out of the size of your data.
Just a fun fact: 4 bits of binary information is called a nibble/nyble.
Now the whole corrupted block thing is the bane of my redstone existence! My system is working perfectly right now - two encoders/decoders sending a signal on a two way redstone line back and forth. But about once out of every 5 tries a block of redstone gets stuck on somewhere in the system. This could kill any hopes of a rail system because it temporarily breaks the whole system! I have to locate the section where I can tell the problem is, then break one bit of dust at a time until I find the one that was stuck. What a pain!
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Retired StaffYou definitely shouldn't be getting them that often. Unless you haven't completely removed the existing corrupted blocks. Have you been removing the item and block, saving and exiting, yadda yadda, etc.? Also, it's pretty easy to tell which block is corrupted without guessing through trial and error. Just look for the piece of dust that's brighter than the rest of the line, as if it's being powered from that point. A bug involving a repeater or torch will be much more obvious to spot.
Soon I'm hoping to start a thread in the creations section for my rail system progress. I've figured out most things with the wiring and I think I'm ready for a large scale test. The switch to binary caused a lot of issue. I figured out nice compact button system to trigger any possible combination so that each button will represent 1 station but trigger the appropriate combination on the encoder/decoder. I was able to make it one wide so that the buttons can be right next to each other which is good because right now I'm looking at a possibility of 15 buttons. Getting my encoders/decoders built and sending signals back and forth worked out OK, but taking the state of those systems and translating it into whether or not to switch the track is a bit cumbersome, especially in situations where more than one "code" might have to switch a track - such as for branches off the main line that go to multiple stations. I think I have it figured out but it's a lot bigger than I would have liked. With each element that I figure out I think my dreams of ever building this thing in my survival world seem more and more impossible. It was much simpler to think of each channel controlling each station, but it has been an interesting challenge.
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Retired StaffYou must destroy the redstone tile, as well as the block it is attached to, as the block itself often causes the issue. Then you must save and exit the game. Then load the world up again, replace blocks, save the game, and you should be good to go.
Also, if one wishes to go far in practicing redstone engineering, they soon learn they have to abandon survival mode altogether. I'm sure the stations will be possible, though time consuming. But once you go any more complex, it just becomes a ridiculous and tedious idea to build these machines in a survival game. Any "real" redstone build I've ever completed has been built in creative mode, or with the assistance of a dupe glitch.
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้
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Retired StaffI've been messing around with the new update and haven't done much with this lately, but I haven't been noticing the corrupt block issue as much anymore. Probably because at some point I actually did what you said instead of just being lazy.
My hope is to start a survival world that I really build up and the rail system will sort of be the heart of that world. Problem is right now I'm still stuck in the update cycle. I was in my nether for a few hours last night (on hard!) and didn't find a nether fortress so no blazes for me. It's a bit disappointing, but I think I'll just spend more time in creative working on the rail system so whenever I finally get a world that has what I want I can be ready to implement it.
I've noticed a separate problem recently. My design for the encoders/decoders is working well, but it still seems like they glitch the very first time I send a signal after I load the world. If I send the signal a second time it works fine. My guess is this has something to do with redstone getting stuck when world saves. I think I may need to rig up a reset signal to send when I first load the world. Only problem is that if the signal won't travel more than about 150 blocks when the world first loads then it will never go to the other relay systems in the world.
I get really weird results the first time I send the signal after the world load. I use #'s for my "channels" (see, there I go again making up terminology). A code that would normally trigger 1 and 4 will instead trigger just 2 or something like that. If I send another signal after that first glitch it works just fine. I'll have to check to see if the far end of my device is more than 150 blocks from me when I load the world. Maybe I'm hitting the initial redstone distance limit without realizing it!
I have another question related to the original topic of this thread. If you had a really long minecart track with enough boosters for an empty minecart, what happens if you sent a minecart from where you are and it gets really far away from you? On the PC I believe that after about 150 blocks away or so the world is "unloaded" so what happens to that minecart? Does it just stop on the track? I wonder what happens on the xbox... What would be really cool is if the xbox loaded the chunks as the minecart traveled, but since it doesn't do that with redstone I can't imagine it would do it with the minecart.
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Retired StaffActually, an unattended minecart loads chunks, players on the PC version use this method all the time, especially in large arenas that are heavily reliant on redstone working properly. I'm not sure why your system doesn't work on the first try, all chunks should be partially loaded after you discover and generate them, whether or not the world is freshly loaded. Maybe there are other states of chunk "loadage" besides unloaded, "half-loaded", and completely loaded. (Now I'm making up terminology. :P) It's possible, think of it as the different stages of REM sleep and how that affects the human brain. From an abstract point of view, it would be almost identical, except the deepness of sleep is how much chunk information is loaded into memory, and the brain activity is how the CPU handles this data. Okay... so not really identical, but it does make sense.