Thats the whole point of an economy though. you dont want to go out and cut wood when the guy right next to you has some, so you say "hey, can i have some of that wood? ill give you blah"
that guy likely doesn't have anything I want or need that I can't go get myself. The resources in this game are too plentiful, such that one guy doesn't need to depend on another guy to focus on something else.
the West was won by people who think like I do. Move out to some empty space and make everything you need yourself. Don't get beholden to nobody else.
It would be different if he actually held a monopoly on the resource or if the production cost was high enough that I couldn't just as easily do it myself.
Ender Pearls... Hard to get and even after killing them it won't always drop. No other use. Although I like the Sugar Cane idea. It is somewhat limited, if you can find it all
Isn't mojang working on coins? Not that it will effect us any time soon though. Maybe it could work as a currency for a server.
It intrigues me.
edit: I was thinking. If you arn't worried about leaderboards or acheivment you could step over to creative and drop a set amount of bedrock for currency.Â
that guy likely doesn't have anything I want or need that I can't go get myself. The resources in this game are too plentiful, such that one guy doesn't need to depend on another guy to focus on something else.
the West was won by people who think like I do. Move out to some empty space and make everything you need yourself. Don't get beholden to nobody else.
It would be different if he actually held a monopoly on the resource or if the production cost was high enough that I couldn't just as easily do it myself.
I'm impressed, you managed to miss the whole point of the economy of minecraft. No dur you can go out and get everything yourself. but if everyone did that, no need for an economy.
And in the west, by the way, thats not how the west was won. it was "won" because the government offered free land to people, and thats it.
Also, not everyone is a master at everything. tell me good sir, do you know how to make, say, a doorknob? or a hinge? or even simple nails? no? oh damn you need a blacksmith. looks like you are depeanding on someone for something. and what about that wheat that you spend your whole day farming? oh? not enough time to build a mill and mill it? hmm.
my point exactly. thats how economies started. I can't do everything all at once, so I need someone else to do it, and they need something I have. thats how it works buddy.
and when your building a huge building, are you going to want to go out and chop down 10 stacks of wood, then go and build it? no, your going to want to focus on building.
And on topic: decent things to trade or have as currency are things that everyone needs or consumes. example: coal/charcoal.
I'm impressed, you managed to miss the whole point of the economy of minecraft. No dur you can go out and get everything yourself. but if everyone did that, no need for an economy.
And in the west, by the way, thats not how the west was won. it was "won" because the government offered free land to people, and thats it.
Also, not everyone is a master at everything. tell me good sir, do you know how to make, say, a doorknob? or a hinge? or even simple nails? no? oh damn you need a blacksmith. looks like you are depeanding on someone for something. and what about that wheat that you spend your whole day farming? oh? not enough time to build a mill and mill it? hmm.
my point exactly. thats how economies started. I can't do everything all at once, so I need someone else to do it, and they need something I have. thats how it works buddy.
and when your building a huge building, are you going to want to go out and chop down 10 stacks of wood, then go and build it? no, your going to want to focus on building.
And on topic: decent things to trade or have as currency are things that everyone needs or consumes. example: coal/charcoal.
Actually, I can make a hinge or nails or a door knob. Some adults actually do know more than one trade.
You've also made my point. You've stated real world examples where MOST people can't go do. Most people can't make tools and use those tools to grow food, etc. if nothing else, because there isn't enough TIME to do both.
I can't imagine anybody who NEEDS somebody else to go chop wood for them in MC. In MC it is too EASY to just do it yourself. 10 stacks of wood? 10 minutes later, problem solved, and you're back to building.
I'm down on economy in MC because NOBODY needs ANYBODY in this game. You can't inflict an economy on something that doesn't need it. Economy arises because it is needed. it solves an actual problem. MC does not suffer from resource deprivation, where one needs others to supply a resource that you can't get yourself easily.
10 stacks of wood takes closer to a full day, if theres that many trees in a small enough area, and your tool doesnt break (which it will, unless its diamond)
and economies are part of the fun. lets say, I dont know, an example from one of my worlds. theres only 2 spots on the whole world with trees, one island that has maybe 10, right near our village, and a tagia biome on the other side of the world. Player A goes and cuts down all the wood, and has all the sapplings. Player B has two choices. 1, go across the world to get the wood, and come back, taking 1 or 2 days. or, he can trade with player A. tell me which you would choose.
And the whole point of it isnt because we HAVE to, its because we WANT to.
10 stacks of wood takes closer to a full day, if theres that many trees in a small enough area, and your tool doesnt break (which it will, unless its diamond)
and economies are part of the fun. lets say, I dont know, an example from one of my worlds. theres only 2 spots on the whole world with trees, one island that has maybe 10, right near our village, and a tagia biome on the other side of the world. Player A goes and cuts down all the wood, and has all the sapplings. Player B has two choices. 1, go across the world to get the wood, and come back, taking 1 or 2 days. or, he can trade with player A. tell me which you would choose.
And the whole point of it isnt because we HAVE to, its because we WANT to.
real economies exist because they are needed, not wanted or fun. MC economies break down as soon as each player realizes it's easier/cheaper to spend a little time and do it yourself.
If my "buddy" chopped down all the trees, I would swim to another place and grab some saplings and plant my own tree farm. It takes 1/4 day to walk from the center of the map to edge. You can leave at dawn and return by dusk. It ain't that hard.
If MC really did make it hard to survive, grow food, collect blocks, etc than specialization would be needed and cooperation, trade and economy would be functional.
Right now, paying for stuff in MC is for lazy people. And I got no time for lazy people.
From bottom edge to top right corner takes a while. plus most of my map is extreme hills (i think).
Minecraft isnt real. the sooner your realize that, the sooner youll have fun.
and fine, would you ask to "borrow" something from your friend? and visca versa?
same thing, basically
it's kinda like we're using the same facts and arguing on opposite sides.
minecraft isn't real, and therefore a market economy doesn't really work. NoseJob had some pretty good write-up of the issues in the OTHER money thread before this one.
And I am having fun, thank you very much. I'm having fun doing whatever I want, not being restricted by limited resources or needing to rely on others.
In my online games, when somebody is working on something, we may offer up our spare supplies (I'm not using wood right now, so you're welcome to what I have, or to harvest my tree farm and replant). I might take a break from my project, and work on fetching whatever bulk supply my friend needs for awhile. I also am at liberty to not help or donate supplies as I might not have any and I might be busy working on my own project. But technically, he's on his own to get his supply needs met. Anything I do is a gift.
Nobody (in my game) has ever "borrowed" as in with intent to give it back or specifically give something else in exchange.
There may be a social expectation that if I help you now, you'll help me later. Repeated failure to live up to that expectation may lead to social discord between us.
But nobody's tracking who owes what.
NoseJob's Anarcho-Communism springs to mind. We all have our own properties (which would differ from A-C), but we help each other without any trade, barter or money involved.
If I was on a server, and I needed more wood, if nobody offered to give me any, but somebody said "I'll sell you some", my response would be, "no thanks." And I'd go chop wood like I expected to do.
Likewise, I have no need of money in MC. If somebody needs wood and I have extra, they can have it. I can always get more. My first MC steps are to setup a farm, so I don't need anything else anybody else has. Folks who set themselves to be dependent on others are binding themselves artificially in a game that has few boundaries.
This system, to be sure, is better on the computer, where you can have many, many people on at once.
At least in my worlds, its not a strict, die-hard set of rules that you must follow, or else. its something we do when we feel like it. Most of the time, our "exchanges" are 2 people needing something (one usually food...) and both willing to share.
Like I said, I usually have a lot of food, so rather than make their own huge farm next to my huge farm, they just ask for some bread, and it goes from there
We are starting to use an exchange building were you can post your goods on signs with your item of choice as payment. This allows for people not onine to trade with others using the messenger and map coordinates to do the trade. This only works if you are not in urgent need. I use a lot of charcoal so I have an open ended wood offer.
So have you ever noticed how communist beards get more fantastic when there are more of them?
-snips-
(Yes, I know it's Marx and Lenin.)
I recently saw a pretty awesome article on a site theorizing that the Smurfs are actually a Communist society. Which, in many ways, they are. The article is extremely biased, but it's still an amusing read, with an even more amusing video.
Why do you even need economy in minecraft, you'll probably get more ores mining for an hour than trading for an hour and a half. I am pretty sure you'll have hard time finding the perfect deal. Getting wood? Not hard. Cobble? Even easier. Coal? Find one vein and you now got plenty. Iron? Find a cave, there are iron here and there. Diamond? Are you kidding? Noone will give out their diamonds even if you offer a whole lotta iron.
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Lapis ore : 1 credit
Lapis block : 10 credits
but then in order for it to work, I think, you should come up with a value system for everything in game to avoid any problems.
After discussing with others on the forum, he decided to go with a mix between Lapis and Ink Sacs. I wonder how that worked out for him...
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Retired StaffYou can't claim a post as inb4 me. I was already here!
I just didn't feel like getting into a huge debate this time.
that guy likely doesn't have anything I want or need that I can't go get myself. The resources in this game are too plentiful, such that one guy doesn't need to depend on another guy to focus on something else.
the West was won by people who think like I do. Move out to some empty space and make everything you need yourself. Don't get beholden to nobody else.
It would be different if he actually held a monopoly on the resource or if the production cost was high enough that I couldn't just as easily do it myself.
It intrigues me.
edit: I was thinking. If you arn't worried about leaderboards or acheivment you could step over to creative and drop a set amount of bedrock for currency.Â
I'm impressed, you managed to miss the whole point of the economy of minecraft. No dur you can go out and get everything yourself. but if everyone did that, no need for an economy.
And in the west, by the way, thats not how the west was won. it was "won" because the government offered free land to people, and thats it.
Also, not everyone is a master at everything. tell me good sir, do you know how to make, say, a doorknob? or a hinge? or even simple nails? no? oh damn you need a blacksmith. looks like you are depeanding on someone for something. and what about that wheat that you spend your whole day farming? oh? not enough time to build a mill and mill it? hmm.
my point exactly. thats how economies started. I can't do everything all at once, so I need someone else to do it, and they need something I have. thats how it works buddy.
and when your building a huge building, are you going to want to go out and chop down 10 stacks of wood, then go and build it? no, your going to want to focus on building.
And on topic: decent things to trade or have as currency are things that everyone needs or consumes. example: coal/charcoal.
Actually, I can make a hinge or nails or a door knob. Some adults actually do know more than one trade.
You've also made my point. You've stated real world examples where MOST people can't go do. Most people can't make tools and use those tools to grow food, etc. if nothing else, because there isn't enough TIME to do both.
I can't imagine anybody who NEEDS somebody else to go chop wood for them in MC. In MC it is too EASY to just do it yourself. 10 stacks of wood? 10 minutes later, problem solved, and you're back to building.
I'm down on economy in MC because NOBODY needs ANYBODY in this game. You can't inflict an economy on something that doesn't need it. Economy arises because it is needed. it solves an actual problem. MC does not suffer from resource deprivation, where one needs others to supply a resource that you can't get yourself easily.
and economies are part of the fun. lets say, I dont know, an example from one of my worlds. theres only 2 spots on the whole world with trees, one island that has maybe 10, right near our village, and a tagia biome on the other side of the world. Player A goes and cuts down all the wood, and has all the sapplings. Player B has two choices. 1, go across the world to get the wood, and come back, taking 1 or 2 days. or, he can trade with player A. tell me which you would choose.
And the whole point of it isnt because we HAVE to, its because we WANT to.
real economies exist because they are needed, not wanted or fun. MC economies break down as soon as each player realizes it's easier/cheaper to spend a little time and do it yourself.
If my "buddy" chopped down all the trees, I would swim to another place and grab some saplings and plant my own tree farm. It takes 1/4 day to walk from the center of the map to edge. You can leave at dawn and return by dusk. It ain't that hard.
If MC really did make it hard to survive, grow food, collect blocks, etc than specialization would be needed and cooperation, trade and economy would be functional.
Right now, paying for stuff in MC is for lazy people. And I got no time for lazy people.
Minecraft isnt real. the sooner your realize that, the sooner youll have fun.
and fine, would you ask to "borrow" something from your friend? and visca versa?
same thing, basically
it's kinda like we're using the same facts and arguing on opposite sides.
minecraft isn't real, and therefore a market economy doesn't really work. NoseJob had some pretty good write-up of the issues in the OTHER money thread before this one.
And I am having fun, thank you very much. I'm having fun doing whatever I want, not being restricted by limited resources or needing to rely on others.
In my online games, when somebody is working on something, we may offer up our spare supplies (I'm not using wood right now, so you're welcome to what I have, or to harvest my tree farm and replant). I might take a break from my project, and work on fetching whatever bulk supply my friend needs for awhile. I also am at liberty to not help or donate supplies as I might not have any and I might be busy working on my own project. But technically, he's on his own to get his supply needs met. Anything I do is a gift.
Nobody (in my game) has ever "borrowed" as in with intent to give it back or specifically give something else in exchange.
There may be a social expectation that if I help you now, you'll help me later. Repeated failure to live up to that expectation may lead to social discord between us.
But nobody's tracking who owes what.
NoseJob's Anarcho-Communism springs to mind. We all have our own properties (which would differ from A-C), but we help each other without any trade, barter or money involved.
If I was on a server, and I needed more wood, if nobody offered to give me any, but somebody said "I'll sell you some", my response would be, "no thanks." And I'd go chop wood like I expected to do.
Likewise, I have no need of money in MC. If somebody needs wood and I have extra, they can have it. I can always get more. My first MC steps are to setup a farm, so I don't need anything else anybody else has. Folks who set themselves to be dependent on others are binding themselves artificially in a game that has few boundaries.
At least in my worlds, its not a strict, die-hard set of rules that you must follow, or else. its something we do when we feel like it. Most of the time, our "exchanges" are 2 people needing something (one usually food...) and both willing to share.
Like I said, I usually have a lot of food, so rather than make their own huge farm next to my huge farm, they just ask for some bread, and it goes from there
That was why I thought this thread was without you.
We should totally be a comedy duo: Cat the Capitalist and Cowboy the Communist, a double act so hilarious you'll be pissing yourself with laughter.
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Retired StaffWhat did Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov say to Rush Limbaugh after a traffic accident? "You bent my van guard!"
HA! Get it? van guard... Vanguard.....
...... Okay, so I'm going to have to work on the material a bit. =/
So have you ever noticed how communist beards get more fantastic when there are more of them?
(Yes, I know it's Marx and Lenin.)
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Retired StaffI recently saw a pretty awesome article on a site theorizing that the Smurfs are actually a Communist society. Which, in many ways, they are. The article is extremely biased, but it's still an amusing read, with an even more amusing video.
The beard doesn't lie.
http://www.squidoo.c...ign=framebuster
EDIT: By the way, about that picture you posted. I think the guy in the middle is supposed to be Frederick Engels.