For a Spelunking Update (A.K.A Better caves)
Poll: Aspects (Idea from)
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Aspects (Idea from) - Multiple Choice
- No need for more cave exploring 9.8% of Users - 5 votes
- New harder stone near bottom (Broccoli Monkey) 33.3% of Users - 17 votes
- Stone getting harder near Y=0 (B77) 39.2% of Users - 20 votes
- Obsidian pocket near bottom (FarmCollector) 33.3% of Users - 17 votes
- Trapped Villagers (B77) 39.2% of Users - 20 votes
- New minerals only at cave side (Swagord) 41.2% of Users - 21 votes
- Diamonds only found in caves, not findable by branch-mining 27.5% of Users - 14 votes
- Small Mazes and/or more dungeons (B77) 54.9% of Users - 28 votes
- Stalactites (B77) 60.8% of Users - 31 votes
- High Spawnrate of small ore veins in solid block (Shaddura) 21.6% of Users - 11 votes
- Low Spawnrate of big ore veins in caves (Shaddura) 21.6% of Users - 11 votes
- Increase and buff up Silverfish (Shaddura) 27.5% of Users - 14 votes
- Pockets of Poisonous Gas (Kholdstare) 21.6% of Users - 11 votes
- Villager-like Passive Aggressive Mob room aside of caves (B77) 15.7% of Users - 8 votes
- Diamonds found only near lava 5.9% of Users - 3 votes
- No change to Diamond Ore Generation 37.3% of Users - 19 votes
- Speed up Silverfish (frez2001) 13.7% of Users - 7 votes
- Sliders for size & frequency of caves at World Creation (TheMasterCaver) 33.3% of Users - 17 votes
- More cave shapes (CriticalPrime9) 43.1% of Users - 22 votes
- More decorative stone (limestone basalt etc.) (CriticalPrime9) 35.3% of Users - 18 votes
- Mycelium patches in caves 25.5% of Users - 13 votes
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If they make diamonds harder to obtain, than people will just opt to use iron for everything. There are few things you NEED diamonds for anyway.
Difficult in the form of tedium is just bad design. Its not like having tons of diamonds ruins the game, as there is no economy to uphold. Making diamonds rarer would be a better alternative to making the surrounding stone take longer to mine through. But even then I don't agree with that either. Tedius and repetitive tasks are never fun, so if you want to spend 5 minutes digging a 5 foot tunnel, make a mod for it.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
How do you see custom world generation fo'dat? You have my curiosity.
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If you feel that diamonds are too easy to obtain, use the custom world generator to make them harder to find.
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2375662-tame-able-rats-in-minecraft-pets-that-spawn-in?page=1http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2304689-hitches-45-supporters
Support
So basically, I'm stupid.
The custom world generator is not a mod.
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2375662-tame-able-rats-in-minecraft-pets-that-spawn-in?page=1http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2304689-hitches-45-supporters
Oh, that doesn't, but making the same block take longer to mine without any added benefit does?
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2375662-tame-able-rats-in-minecraft-pets-that-spawn-in?page=1http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2304689-hitches-45-supporters
Obsidian's value is in its blast resistance, but that is hardly a valuable block. Its crafting applications are limited.
Please, name a tedious activity that is good design? Given the definition of the word: "too long, slow, or dull: tiresome or monotonous.".
I am not quick to dismiss it the idea. I didn't pull my opposition to the idea out of my... butt... just to spout something. The idea is just bad design, pure and simple. Making things harder for the sake of being harder has never worked for any game.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
Support.
If making stone harder as one goes down is not the way to go, then so be it.
But caves currently do not have much to offer unfortunately.
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I think a better way to make cave exploration more appealing would be to add cool new minerals.
Minecraft is not medieval-themed!!! As a matter of fact, it doesn't have a set time. And when and WHY did putting reponses in the quote, especially long ones, become a trend in the Suggestions? It's rather inconvenient, mainly since the OP has to gather your quote up manually. Avatar made by Endergirl!
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2375662-tame-able-rats-in-minecraft-pets-that-spawn-in?page=1http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2304689-hitches-45-supporters
I agree.
Minecraft is a sandbox game, and at the moment strip mining is just too good compared to cave exploring.
Strip mining
By increasing the time it takes to mine at deeper levels, strip mining will take longer in order to keep efficiency of both methods equal.
It could also be possible to increase the spawn rate of ores nearby caves, or increase the amount of silverfish blocks and buff silverfish to be an actual threat, but those are rather debatable considering it affects more of the game.
Having blocks take more time to mine is an excellent way to deter players from taking the easy way though, and it would really balance gameplay in order to provide a better experience for both singleplayers and multiplayers alike.
How does it make it more dangerous? Because monsters could show up? Why are you mining before making sure the area is secure?
If you want cave exploration to be more meaningul and entertaining, then they need to add things to the caves worth seeking out. Making the game artificially harder does not increase the playability, it only prolongs it via artificial means and not through actual content.
So making EVERY block in the came more difficult to mine the lower you are is beneficial to the game?
Wheat farminf is a "set it and forget it" task. The tedium is minimal at best. Mining stone is a HUGE part of the game, so making that take longer, for no other reason than "just because", makes the whole process of mining tedius from beginning to end. Obsidian is used in minimal copacities, so again, the tedium is minimal. The idea being presented here is to make the whole damn game one tedious grind for no good reason.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
You want to plant 6000 seeds, that is your problem. I choose to strip mine because I like making tunnels. It it suddenly became more difficult to do so, then I would likely quit playing for good. If you want to make mining more difficult, then either make a mod, or use wood picks everywhere.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
Heh, increase the amount of ores I can find by caving even further?! Not unless they add stuff like double-chest inventories (besides the hotbar), double-chest sized Ender chests, and all that (also an argument against people who want like 100 different new ores).
Here is an example of what I mean:
(tl;dr - ores are ALREADY more common and easier to get by caving in 1.8 due to changes in ore generation, far offsetting the reduction in caves; it only took me an average of 3 minutes to get enough iron for full iron armor (some people have claimed I can mine ores so fast because the caves I explore are much bigger than what you find in recent versions; to the contrary, less dense caves are easier to explore, if without the huge areas near lava level that can get you many diamonds in a short time if you only explore those layers.)
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
You are using words such as "appealing", "beneficial" and "exploring" in all the wrong ways.
There is no benefit because the player doesn't receive any advantage, because you're suggesting a pure disadvantage. Something that would probably anger many players. There is no appeal because you're senselessly making a task harder that wasn't harder before, and has no good reason to be harder anyway. There is no addition to exploring because we're finding these ores all the same, but just have to wait longer to mine them.
I asked many many times what you meant by adding danger and you still haven't answered the question. If hostile mob spawns are gonna be a problem, people will just barricade themselves before mining this stuff. Which is why the "danger dialogue" thing in your first post confused me to death (and still does...)
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
A fair point. Though if such an idea were added early on, there would have also been something to counter it and detract from the tedium. But that isn't where the game went, and the idea at hand is about adding the feature NOW.
Obsidian used to be easier, yes, I remember that time and realizing they made diamond picks necessary. but that was minor compared to the idea of making ALL blocks take longer to mine. Obsidian is mainly used in small quantities compared to other blocks. If obsidian were on par with the uses of stone, then yes, there would be an issue, but that isn,t the case. The tedium of mining obsidian is manageable in that you aren't digging through it all the time.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4
I didn't explore the cave itself in Creative; I had just made a world to see if the snapshot had actually improved performance, then decided to see what I could get by caving, giving myself iron armor, a diamond sword, an Efficiency V diamond pickaxe, stacks of torches, a water bucket, and food, although I didn't really mine enough ores to be representative (in my 1.6.4 world relative to diamond I've mined 5 times more gold, 40 times as much iron and nearly 100 times more coal, the last of which was particularly low relative to these rates).
Also, while caving may not be quite as time-efficient, realize that I explore ALL of a cave system, from the surface down, with no intent to specifically explore the deeper layers which have more ores, plus all the time I spent mining coal and iron reduced my diamond-finding rates as well.
Another thing to consider is mining efficiency in terms of ores mined over total blocks mined (ores + stone); in this case i had mined 928 ore and 136 stone, a total of 1,064 blocks for a mining efficiency of 928 / 1064 = 87.2% (1073 overall; the ratio I've mined long-term in my 1.6.4 world is much lower since I mine a lot of non-ore, non-stone blocks like mineshaft rails). If I had only mined diamonds the efficiency becomes 9 / 145 = 6.2%, and I would have mined less stone as well.
Even when branch-mining, I've calculated that 1x2 tunnels dug using an optimal pattern (spaced every 4 blocks, or 4 tunnels per chunk-width, exposing veins across four layers, about a third of the effective range of diamond between 5-12) averages about one diamond ore every 128 blocks mined, for a mining efficiency of just 0.78%, not including any other ores you might find in the walls - this is lower than the 0.846% (9 / 1064) I got when considering all ores and stone mined by caving, and would be even lower if you included other ores.
Note also that minimizing wear on pickaxes, especially enchanted ones (you can mine much faster using Efficiency V diamond pickaxes than unenchanted iron or even stone, more than offsetting the diamonds used for pickaxes), is much more significant in 1.8 since tools can only be repaired a few times (in 1.6.4 I once actually used an Efficiency V, Fortune III, Unbreaking III diamond pickaxe for all mining - and was able to easily keep up with repairs despite the 37 level cost (for one diamond), thanks to all the XP I got from ores).
In other words, caving already has some significant benefits over branch-mining; personally, if they are to favor caving they should just make ores rarer, which you can even already do in Customized (one thing to try - increase the range and decrease the vein size of diamond ore, making it less concentrated; with the right settings you can make caving just as profitable as it currently is (perhaps more, given the other downsides) while making branch-mining impractical).
TheMasterCaver's First World - possibly the most caved-out world in Minecraft history - includes world download.
TheMasterCaver's World - my own version of Minecraft largely based on my views of how the game should have evolved since 1.6.4.
Why do I still play in 1.6.4?
Nope. Not by a long shot.
If such a thing existed in the game since day 1, I'm sure we'd all be used to it, but it would still be a pretty stupid thing to have because there's no good reason for it in the first place. In fact, we might even beg to have that changed. Changes to Obsidian is a little different than changing all stone/ore blocks in the world depending on the Y axis.
Not only does this add senseless time consumption for mining, but this could even affect underground buildings that involve stone and whatnot. Sure, generated stone and player placed stone could be handled differently, but there would need to be extra headache coding to have these stone blocks to contain these different values to determine all that. So this idea is way more cost than benefit. In fact, it's ALL cost and NO benefit... This is why the words "appealing" and "beneficial" just don't work here.
edit: I admit, I few other things in that poll sound way better instead...
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
Indeed. I am all for making caves more interesting. I am not against the idea of promoting cave exploration, I just think making digging more tedious is far from the way to do it.
Cast aside your festive doylaks: dragon stuff is about to happen.
Multiplayer is lonely once you understand how it actually works.
Alpha 1.0.4