Here is how I view it. So let's call the world the character plays in the Overworld because the Nether is obviously another dimension and we will get to the End later. In the Overworld I do believe it is a sphere and I do believe there is gravity. Now I know what you are thinking, "He's crazy, we disproved gravity a long time ago and the Overworld CAN'T be a sphere." But listen to what I have to say. Gravity exists with obvious proof, the air is held down by gravity, the player falls, some blocks fall, items fall. But you might be saying that most blocks don't fall. And here is where I reply. I believe there is a 5th fundemental force in Minecraftia, a sort of "anti-gravity" that interacts kind of like the Higgs field. The more the "anti-gravity" field's particles interact with blocks, the more resistant they are to succumbing too gravity. So the player, items, and certain blocks do not get enough interaction with this 5th force to win against gravity, but every other block resists gravity's pulling. And you might be wondering why I said the Overworld was round. Because if the player jumps anywhere on the map, they experience the exact same gravity. If it was flat, the farther from 0,0 you were, the less gravity you would experience. I also believe that the Overworld does not rotate, but that it is stationary. And that everything else in the universe revolves around it. My old account was Micro Matt btw.
Okay, what is your reasoning for creating a more complicated theory, that seems to describe less than pondity did? I'm just confused what your reasoning for the change is. Also, your assuming that matter creates your gravity by your comment that gravity would be less the further you get from the origin. There's nothing to say that it doesn't simply pull downward. It also assumes that there is more matter in the void, which we know there isn't. If the world is simply a flat, thick, infinite sheet, you'd get a roughly downward pull no matter where you were. However, this doesn't make sense either because that would mean as you neared bedrock, the direction of gravity would reverse. In addition, in order to create the effect we see, each block would have to be incredibly "dense" as to create enough gravity to pull the player down. This can be disproved in a simple void world with one block. No matter how long you wait, that block isn't going to pull the player in.
I guess my request is just that you provide the evidence for your "opposing forces" theory.
Gravity exists with obvious proof, the air is held down by gravity,...
I apologize if this was answered earlier in the thread, what reason do you have for thinking that this "air" exists?
I thought the idea was that we had to base our theories on things that could be discovered in game and I can't think of any way to detect air?
It's actually pretty simple, since we always have to use the most current version of Minecraft for study, tell me this. If there is no air, what makes the noise when you are using the Elytra? That is obviously the sound of air rushing.
And Plyb said earlier that the reason we don't talk about the Elytra is because it behaves differently from everything else. But if we are truely trying to figure out the science of Minecraft, we must encompass everything. Which includes Elytra.
It's actually pretty simple, since we always have to use the most current version of Minecraft for study, tell me this. If there is no air, what makes the noise when you are using the Elytra? That is obviously the sound of air rushing.
And Plyb said earlier that the reason we don't talk about the Elytra is because it behaves differently from everything else. But if we are truely trying to figure out the science of Minecraft, we must encompass everything. Which includes Elytra.
For all we know "sound" is not based on air whatsoever. It could be based on spatial transmission, or bursts of unknown energy or something.
It's actually pretty simple, since we always have to use the most current version of Minecraft for study, tell me this. If there is no air, what makes the noise when you are using the Elytra? That is obviously the sound of air rushing.
And Plyb said earlier that the reason we don't talk about the Elytra is because it behaves differently from everything else. But if we are truely trying to figure out the science of Minecraft, we must encompass everything. Which includes Elytra.
Frankly, we have no idea what causes sound in the first place, or what "sound" even is in the context of Minecraft. It only seems to affect the player, and to my knowledge generally originates from some kind of movement.
I don't know if I ever said that we shouldn't talk about Elytra. If I recall, my statement was that it was very complicated and unique in the Minecraft world. I may have said something along the lines of "we need more knowledge before we can really dive into the high level stuff like Elytra", but I don't know if I ever said we just shouldn't talk about it.
No the Elytra isn't high level stuff, all that Relation stuff was much more complicated then the Elytra. And since sound is basically waves of a frequency that the player can hear, and those wavestravel easiest through air, and the sound we hear sounds a lot like rushing air, I believe air does exist.
Just thought of something: What if the reason that mobs can fall and move OFF the grid is... That they push the pondity that exists on the ground! So since we know air is the ABSENSE of pondity, and MOBS AND BLOCKS contain pondity... The sheer amount of pondity that exists when two things that contain pondity collide (In this case mobs and blocks, also im stating that all blocks do contain pondity, but not enough to all of them fall. And only blocks with HUGE amounts of pondity fall. ) thus creating a huge amount of force,, which builds up, which works slightligy diffrently than normal pondity and pushes the player to all sides, and the players feet somehow harnesses this pondity to make the player move.
Evidence:
The ability to hold blocks while moving:
Confused? Ok let me explain, while you all talked about how blocks stick on the grid, there is one flaw: players and endermen can pick up blocks, this theory fixes that by stating that were pusing pondity away, and when your picking up blocks, and due to you touching the blocks, the pondity temporarly is transfered to the blocks, and then is pushed due to two things with pondity touching eachother: You, and the block, which alows you to, as I said before, temporarily take it off of the grid.
Elytra:
The way they push through the sky at such high speeds is beacuse they have HUGE amounts of pondity, and you have that little bit of extra pondity to make them push through the sky at extremly fast speeds. (So bascly, the more pondity you have, the faster you move.)
Explosions:
the explosions may be made of pondity, if so, this theory explains why explosions moves the player, which is basicly the same explanation as how you can hold blocks while moving.
For all we know "sound" is not based on air whatsoever. It could be based on spatial transmission, or bursts of unknown energy or something.
Absolutely, the claim that sound requires air is merely imported from the real world and in fact noises can be heard and elytra whoosh both in the void and above build limit.
Sound is a wave correct? Just like light is a wave(and also a particle). But we know that sound is a wave and waves must have a medium, and that medium would be air. Water or solids are also mediums but waves have a harder time transmitting through them. As well as, did I ever say that there wasn't air in the Void or air in above build limit? No, I know there is because the sounds the Elytra makes proves it. But there is one fact you are forgetting, the player itself. The player breathes, maybe not oxygen, but he breathes. And if you tell me he uses photosynthesis I will laugh. So tell me, how does the player live if he/she doesn't breath? And i they do breath, it proves air must exist which further proves my point.
This is an idea imported from the real world. We have no idea what "sound" is in Minecraft so far.
Just like light is a wave(and also a particle). But we know that sound is a wave and waves must have a medium, and that medium would be air.
Unrelated, but waves do not necessarily require a medium, as light has no medium (unless you count a quantum field as a medium I guess).
As well as, did I ever say that there wasn't air in the Void or air in above build limit? No, I know there is because the sounds the Elytra makes proves it.
This is equivalent to saying "The Elytra's sound is proved by air and air is proved by the Elytra's sound".
But there is one fact you are forgetting, the player itself. The player breathes, maybe not oxygen, but he breathes.
And if you tell me he uses photosynthesis I will laugh. So tell me, how does the player live if he/she doesn't breath? And i they do breath, it proves air must exist which further proves my point.
As I recall, we had a debate a while back about whether the player necessarily had to breath. We decided that there was no real reason they had to (If I remember someone created an alternate explanation involving pondity being transfered to the player, harming them if they were "suffocating" in a block or drowning in water). An easy way to see that the player doesn't need air is to go swimming in lava with a fire resistance potion.
Just thought of something: What if the reason that mobs can fall and move OFF the grid is... That they push the pondity that exists on the ground! So since we know air is the ABSENSE of pondity, and MOBS AND BLOCKS contain pondity... The sheer amount of pondity that exists when two things that contain pondity collide (In this case mobs and blocks, also im stating that all blocks do contain pondity, but not enough to all of them fall. And only blocks with HUGE amounts of pondity fall. ) thus creating a huge amount of force,, which builds up, which works slightligy diffrently than normal pondity and pushes the player to all sides, and the players feet somehow harnesses this pondity to make the player move.
Evidence:
The ability to hold blocks while moving:
Confused? Ok let me explain, while you all talked about how blocks stick on the grid, there is one flaw: players and endermen can pick up blocks, this theory fixes that by stating that were pusing pondity away, and when your picking up blocks, and due to you touching the blocks, the pondity temporarly is transfered to the blocks, and then is pushed due to two things with pondity touching eachother: You, and the block, which alows you to, as I said before, temporarily take it off of the grid.
Elytra:
The way they push through the sky at such high speeds is beacuse they have HUGE amounts of pondity, and you have that little bit of extra pondity to make them push through the sky at extremly fast speeds. (So bascly, the more pondity you have, the faster you move.)
Explosions:
the explosions may be made of pondity, if so, this theory explains why explosions moves the player, which is basicly the same explanation as how you can hold blocks while moving.
Sorry, can you explain the bit about pushing in a different way? I'm not getting it.
Sound is a wave correct? Just like light is a wave(and also a particle). But we know that sound is a wave and waves must have a medium, and that medium would be air. Water or solids are also mediums but waves have a harder time transmitting through them. As well as, did I ever say that there wasn't air in the Void or air in above build limit? No, I know there is because the sounds the Elytra makes proves it. But there is one fact you are forgetting, the player itself. The player breathes, maybe not oxygen, but he breathes. And if you tell me he uses photosynthesis I will laugh. So tell me, how does the player live if he/she doesn't breath? And i they do breath, it proves air must exist which further proves my point.
You're making unwarranted assumptions again.
You can't just assume that things work the same in Minelandia as in Realandia.
In Minelandia sounds are not affected by what kind of blocks, if any, are between the supposed source and the listener.
Most sounds can be heard for 16 blocks, then there's thunder which can be heard anywhere, even down at bedrock.
And what evidence do you have that players breathe?
I watched myself just standing there for a minute and I saw my arms slowly swing back and forth but my chest never moved.
Sure, we suffocate in some blocks and not in others but it's not scientific to just assume the cause is the same as in Realandia.
You have no justification for claiming that air is necessary for the transmission of sound or to keep a player from suffocating in Minelandia.
If I cheat by reading the Wiki I can see that you are in fact wrong about the existance of air above and below the world, and the requirement for air for breathing.
If I don't cheat I can't say with certainty that you are wrong but I can see that your claims are unjustified.
Sorry, can you explain the bit about pushing in a different way? I'm not getting it.
Of course, Im saying that pondity doesnt always move things downwards, but can move in any direction, left or right, up and down, it all depends on the amound of pondity something has, so like sand and gravel, only have enough pondity to move downwards, and the thing with the most pondity in minecrafia is the elytra, which alows it to move in every direction FASTER then everything else.
Also, I didnt mention this before but I belive, since the ender dragon technicaly doesnt touch anything, I believe the end crystals, create pondity, which esntaly keep it moving.
I belive the way the wither works is because, soul sand somehow absorbs pondity, which is why soulsand slows down the player, and since the wither is made of soul sand, it is able to store pondity so it can keep flying without touching anything.
(Also if you like my theory and think it is plausable, id love it if you could add it to the main post!)
Of course, Im saying that pondity doesnt always move downwards, but can move in any direction, left or right, up and down, it all depends on the amound of pondity something has, so like sand and gravel, only have enough pondity to move downwards, and the thing with the most pondity in minecrafia is the elytra, which alows it to move in every direction FASTER then everything else.
Also, I didnt mention this before but I belive, since the ender dragon technicaly doesnt touch anything, I believe the end crystals, create pondity, which esntaly keep it moving.
I belive the way the wither works is because, soul sand somehow absorbs pondity, which is why soulsand slows down the player, and since the wither is made of soul sand, it is able to store pondity so it can keep flying without touching anything.
(Also if you like my theory and think it is plausable, id love it if you could add it to the main post!)
Okay, so your saying that pondity moves? I'm still a bit confused. I thought the original theory was that pondity was simply a property (like mass IRL) that various objects in Minecraftia had?
I don't know where it comes from, but frankly, we no basically zero about anything in Blockology yet. The science is less than a year old. Just because we don't know doesn't mean we should jump to believing that the Greek gods cause weather. The statement that "sound" is a wave, and that it requires a medium, etc is completely unfounded.
I tried earlier to point out some things that may help us narrow in on what Minecraft sound is. It only affects the player. It generally comes from entities (though not always). Most sounds can be heard up to sixteen blocks away with the notable exceptions of thunder, ghasts and the dragon.
Personally, I think the bit about it only affecting the player is the most important. I don't know why this happens, but I feel like it will help us narrow in significantly.
Okay, so your saying that pondity moves? I'm still a bit confused. I thought the original theory was that pondity was simply a property (like mass IRL) that various objects in Minecraftia had?
No, I forgot to add a extra word there, Im just saying it can move things In more directions then just down.
(The word I forgot to say was things)
EDIT: Fixed the post, added the missing word to it.
alright then if we are going to prove anything, we are going to need a lot of mathematics. Because if anything can be proven mathematically it is true.
alright then if we are going to prove anything, we are going to need a lot of mathematics. Because if anything can be proven mathematically it is true.
Can you please use the quote feature? I'm assuming you're responding to me, but honestly I have no idea.
Technically, not even math is enough to prove anything as you need to have postulates which are inherently un-provable (Euclid [I think] had five basic postulates from which all Euclidian geometry arises, things like "A point can be defined in space", and "a line can be drawn between two points".) So if you want to get really technical, we can't prove anything without a doubt. This is compounded by the fact that it is very hard to experiment in Minecraft.
All of science IRL relies on these kinds of postulates as well. Some that we've decided to work with are basically, if you can observe it happening in survival mode in the latest (full release) version, then we can use that to draw conclusions from. No math is necessary for most things, as long as you have a fallacy free chain of logic from observation to conclusion.
Most theories (as in real life) we have here are basically just the best guess we can come up with. What makes a good theory is that it explains many different aspects of Minecraft elegantly, and is the most simple (Ockham's razor). So while we technically aren't "proving" anything, we are trying to find the best explanation we can for them, just like science does in real life.
Players have ponditism and they fall, elytra reduces the amount of ponditism thus a slow fall, with forward acceleration. going high up and diving down is just giving the elytra potential energy. The Elytra does not need air to fly, it just needs energy.
Okay, what is your reasoning for creating a more complicated theory, that seems to describe less than pondity did? I'm just confused what your reasoning for the change is. Also, your assuming that matter creates your gravity by your comment that gravity would be less the further you get from the origin. There's nothing to say that it doesn't simply pull downward. It also assumes that there is more matter in the void, which we know there isn't. If the world is simply a flat, thick, infinite sheet, you'd get a roughly downward pull no matter where you were. However, this doesn't make sense either because that would mean as you neared bedrock, the direction of gravity would reverse. In addition, in order to create the effect we see, each block would have to be incredibly "dense" as to create enough gravity to pull the player down. This can be disproved in a simple void world with one block. No matter how long you wait, that block isn't going to pull the player in.
I guess my request is just that you provide the evidence for your "opposing forces" theory.
I apologize if this was answered earlier in the thread, what reason do you have for thinking that this "air" exists?
I thought the idea was that we had to base our theories on things that could be discovered in game and I can't think of any way to detect air?
Just testing.
It's actually pretty simple, since we always have to use the most current version of Minecraft for study, tell me this. If there is no air, what makes the noise when you are using the Elytra? That is obviously the sound of air rushing.
And Plyb said earlier that the reason we don't talk about the Elytra is because it behaves differently from everything else. But if we are truely trying to figure out the science of Minecraft, we must encompass everything. Which includes Elytra.
For all we know "sound" is not based on air whatsoever. It could be based on spatial transmission, or bursts of unknown energy or something.
If you are planning to make a suggestion, please read this.
If you want to know more, you can read this.
For those who complain about post-Beta generation, you might want to see this.
Frankly, we have no idea what causes sound in the first place, or what "sound" even is in the context of Minecraft. It only seems to affect the player, and to my knowledge generally originates from some kind of movement.
I don't know if I ever said that we shouldn't talk about Elytra. If I recall, my statement was that it was very complicated and unique in the Minecraft world. I may have said something along the lines of "we need more knowledge before we can really dive into the high level stuff like Elytra", but I don't know if I ever said we just shouldn't talk about it.
No the Elytra isn't high level stuff, all that Relation stuff was much more complicated then the Elytra. And since sound is basically waves of a frequency that the player can hear, and those wavestravel easiest through air, and the sound we hear sounds a lot like rushing air, I believe air does exist.
Hypothesis and law:
Just thought of something: What if the reason that mobs can fall and move OFF the grid is... That they push the pondity that exists on the ground! So since we know air is the ABSENSE of pondity, and MOBS AND BLOCKS contain pondity... The sheer amount of pondity that exists when two things that contain pondity collide (In this case mobs and blocks, also im stating that all blocks do contain pondity, but not enough to all of them fall. And only blocks with HUGE amounts of pondity fall. ) thus creating a huge amount of force,, which builds up, which works slightligy diffrently than normal pondity and pushes the player to all sides, and the players feet somehow harnesses this pondity to make the player move.
Evidence:
The ability to hold blocks while moving:
Confused? Ok let me explain, while you all talked about how blocks stick on the grid, there is one flaw: players and endermen can pick up blocks, this theory fixes that by stating that were pusing pondity away, and when your picking up blocks, and due to you touching the blocks, the pondity temporarly is transfered to the blocks, and then is pushed due to two things with pondity touching eachother: You, and the block, which alows you to, as I said before, temporarily take it off of the grid.
Elytra:
The way they push through the sky at such high speeds is beacuse they have HUGE amounts of pondity, and you have that little bit of extra pondity to make them push through the sky at extremly fast speeds. (So bascly, the more pondity you have, the faster you move.)
Explosions:
the explosions may be made of pondity, if so, this theory explains why explosions moves the player, which is basicly the same explanation as how you can hold blocks while moving.
"Move along people,nothing to see Here" Quote from a extremely suspicious person.
Absolutely, the claim that sound requires air is merely imported from the real world and in fact noises can be heard and elytra whoosh both in the void and above build limit.
Just testing.
Sound is a wave correct? Just like light is a wave(and also a particle). But we know that sound is a wave and waves must have a medium, and that medium would be air. Water or solids are also mediums but waves have a harder time transmitting through them. As well as, did I ever say that there wasn't air in the Void or air in above build limit? No, I know there is because the sounds the Elytra makes proves it. But there is one fact you are forgetting, the player itself. The player breathes, maybe not oxygen, but he breathes. And if you tell me he uses photosynthesis I will laugh. So tell me, how does the player live if he/she doesn't breath? And i they do breath, it proves air must exist which further proves my point.
This is an idea imported from the real world. We have no idea what "sound" is in Minecraft so far.
Unrelated, but waves do not necessarily require a medium, as light has no medium (unless you count a quantum field as a medium I guess).
This is equivalent to saying "The Elytra's sound is proved by air and air is proved by the Elytra's sound".
As I recall, we had a debate a while back about whether the player necessarily had to breath. We decided that there was no real reason they had to (If I remember someone created an alternate explanation involving pondity being transfered to the player, harming them if they were "suffocating" in a block or drowning in water). An easy way to see that the player doesn't need air is to go swimming in lava with a fire resistance potion.
Sorry, can you explain the bit about pushing in a different way? I'm not getting it.
You're making unwarranted assumptions again.
You can't just assume that things work the same in Minelandia as in Realandia.
In Minelandia sounds are not affected by what kind of blocks, if any, are between the supposed source and the listener.
Most sounds can be heard for 16 blocks, then there's thunder which can be heard anywhere, even down at bedrock.
And what evidence do you have that players breathe?
I watched myself just standing there for a minute and I saw my arms slowly swing back and forth but my chest never moved.
Sure, we suffocate in some blocks and not in others but it's not scientific to just assume the cause is the same as in Realandia.
You have no justification for claiming that air is necessary for the transmission of sound or to keep a player from suffocating in Minelandia.
If I cheat by reading the Wiki I can see that you are in fact wrong about the existance of air above and below the world, and the requirement for air for breathing.
If I don't cheat I can't say with certainty that you are wrong but I can see that your claims are unjustified.
Just testing.
Of course, Im saying that pondity doesnt always move things downwards, but can move in any direction, left or right, up and down, it all depends on the amound of pondity something has, so like sand and gravel, only have enough pondity to move downwards, and the thing with the most pondity in minecrafia is the elytra, which alows it to move in every direction FASTER then everything else.
Also, I didnt mention this before but I belive, since the ender dragon technicaly doesnt touch anything, I believe the end crystals, create pondity, which esntaly keep it moving.
I belive the way the wither works is because, soul sand somehow absorbs pondity, which is why soulsand slows down the player, and since the wither is made of soul sand, it is able to store pondity so it can keep flying without touching anything.
(Also if you like my theory and think it is plausable, id love it if you could add it to the main post!)
"Move along people,nothing to see Here" Quote from a extremely suspicious person.
Tell me then where sounds come from
Okay, so your saying that pondity moves? I'm still a bit confused. I thought the original theory was that pondity was simply a property (like mass IRL) that various objects in Minecraftia had?
I don't know where it comes from, but frankly, we no basically zero about anything in Blockology yet. The science is less than a year old. Just because we don't know doesn't mean we should jump to believing that the Greek gods cause weather. The statement that "sound" is a wave, and that it requires a medium, etc is completely unfounded.
I tried earlier to point out some things that may help us narrow in on what Minecraft sound is. It only affects the player. It generally comes from entities (though not always). Most sounds can be heard up to sixteen blocks away with the notable exceptions of thunder, ghasts and the dragon.
Personally, I think the bit about it only affecting the player is the most important. I don't know why this happens, but I feel like it will help us narrow in significantly.
No, I forgot to add a extra word there, Im just saying it can move things In more directions then just down.
(The word I forgot to say was things)
EDIT: Fixed the post, added the missing word to it.
"Move along people,nothing to see Here" Quote from a extremely suspicious person.
alright then if we are going to prove anything, we are going to need a lot of mathematics. Because if anything can be proven mathematically it is true.
Are you responding to me? Becasue im bad at math lol.
"Move along people,nothing to see Here" Quote from a extremely suspicious person.
Can you please use the quote feature? I'm assuming you're responding to me, but honestly I have no idea.
Technically, not even math is enough to prove anything as you need to have postulates which are inherently un-provable (Euclid [I think] had five basic postulates from which all Euclidian geometry arises, things like "A point can be defined in space", and "a line can be drawn between two points".) So if you want to get really technical, we can't prove anything without a doubt. This is compounded by the fact that it is very hard to experiment in Minecraft.
All of science IRL relies on these kinds of postulates as well. Some that we've decided to work with are basically, if you can observe it happening in survival mode in the latest (full release) version, then we can use that to draw conclusions from. No math is necessary for most things, as long as you have a fallacy free chain of logic from observation to conclusion.
Most theories (as in real life) we have here are basically just the best guess we can come up with. What makes a good theory is that it explains many different aspects of Minecraft elegantly, and is the most simple (Ockham's razor). So while we technically aren't "proving" anything, we are trying to find the best explanation we can for them, just like science does in real life.
Elytra can be explained.
Players have ponditism and they fall, elytra reduces the amount of ponditism thus a slow fall, with forward acceleration. going high up and diving down is just giving the elytra potential energy. The Elytra does not need air to fly, it just needs energy.
My Scroll.