there would also be a multi player aspect if you say spend most of your time researching aqua and your friend researched perdito they could put there "understandings" in place then pass the notes on to you and you complete the research with your level 7 understanding of aqua
also i like the idea of being able to choose which experiment you want to do based on what materials you have i mean id rather blow up stone than break a diamond pick for my first point of perdito.
I like the idea of having different "levels" of primal knowledge, it would give a nice feeling of a more magically-oriented progress instead of just a percentage of all reasearches done like in TC5. It would also help with the multiplayer aspect, I can see a group of 6 people joining up to master one of each of the primals in order to gain unlimited power
IT would also give addon modders an easy way to quantify how advanced they want their own researches to be, by making a required primal knowledge level for each of their researches to make them early game, midgame, or late game, depending.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I would contribute with an idea, basically is in the Alchemy area: As far I can see in TC5, hasn's been developed the idea of Quantitative Alchemy and Qualitative Alchemy. Alchemy in this mod has an enormous potential in the branch of research and minigames. Alchemy is an unique area and should have its own form of investigation, different of Thaumaturgy, Golemancy and Artifice. The work of an Alchemist is join up and breack down aspects. Let the work of the Alchemy, consisting of "drynesse" and "moisture", instruct you. He that endeavours to enter into the Thaumonomicon without knowing alchemy, is like him who would walk without feet. Nature, Reason, Experience and Reading must be the Guide, Staff for alchemist.
Qualitatve Alchemy is the study that deals with the identification of aspect or gruop of aspects that comforms the environment. Dependendig of the complexity of de cube (or sample), you should employ different techniques OR equipment, like an Arcane Alembic or Thaumometer or "Vitum Test": you burn a sample and the amount of vitum released is proportional of the tier aspect, Tier 5 aspects release much more vitum than a Tier 4 aspects and so on. Another work is establish the state of aggregation of the aspects, why this is impotant? 'cause the state of aggregations influence the speed of propagation of the aspect and its reactivity, so Vitum aspect in normal conditions is gas, therefore its speed of propagation is very high; to manipulte Vitum you should tranform in Liquid or Crystal State. a Another work for the Thaumaturge in this area is to generate a complet list or table of reactivity of the aspects and identify in what conditions an aspects can react with another: Aqua and Terra will react to form Victus in normal conditions, but to form Vitreus from Terra and Aer you must need a certain conditions and you must investigate what are these conditions, sometimes the reactions of very reactive, aspects like Ordo or Perditio could be dangereous 'cause they reactions are an exergonic procces (In fact Perditio is the most reactive aspect currently in TC5).
Quantitative Alchemy is the determination of amount-aspect in certain sample (or cube) and design a process to synthesize a required aspect from primal aspects. You gain experience if know all the design of the process to synthesize the aspects.
What do you guys think?. Sorry for the wall of text
Question for TC4: I can't find any Tainted Lands anywhere. Is there any other way to get Taint/Vitium other than overloading a crucible? I have most addons for this version, as well.
I see a lot of people suggesting new mechanics, and some who like the TC5 system, not too much support for the proposed new system but even that has a couple supporters. My suggestion: Try to find a less-annoying compromise between the new system you suggested and the TC5 one. If you're running short on ideas you can just look at all the people with suggestions for new mechanics, not all of them will make the cut but you might find a few tidbits to get your imagination working. As for other aspects of the mod, I want you to make Taint highly dangerous, not like early TC5 where it could eat a world whole, but more like later-on TC5 where it's very destructive but within logical boundaries. Seeing as how some rare aspects come from Taint, it should be possible to farm it, but very risky to try since if it gnaws a hole in your farm it could eat your base. It should also have some sort of an "immune system" like what was suggested before, but it shouldn't be able to destroy a bloom that has had time to grow good roots, only one that was just planted recently. There should also be a way to filter flux from the air manually, that way you can cut off a taint patch's supply of flux to stop it growing if you catch it soon enough, and also prevent a Tainted Node or similar from ruining that pleasant village-side spot where you built your castle. Also if you manage to get a chance to expand features before the next rewrite, PLEASE expand the endgame. There is one thing that bothers me about TC, and that is this... The Primordial Pearl is supposed to have unlimited potential. Why, then is it only used for like two things???
Edit: Where are my manners? Thanks for reading this!
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
As for other aspects of the mod, I want you to make Taint highly dangerous, not like early TC5 where it could eat a world whole, but more like later-on TC5 where it's very destructive but within logical boundaries. Seeing as how some rare aspects come from Taint, it should be possible to farm it, but very risky to try since if it gnaws a hole in your farm it could eat your base. It should also have some sort of an "immune system" like what was suggested before, but it shouldn't be able to destroy a bloom that has had time to grow good roots, only one that was just planted recently.
Oh yeah. I've always loved taint ever since my first experience with it in TC2. I remember a chunk in my farm getting tainted and coming out to be murdered by my own corrupted farm animals. Taint has since been sort of tame ever since TF3. Taint should be a sort of inevitability, something to manage rather than avoid all together. A cost of doing business with thaumaturgical energies. Manage it well and it can help you along in your magical studies, but let it loose and it just might eat half your base. A few ideas:
Manageability. Taint in it's early stages is little more than a nuisance. A bit of purple fiber clinging to your wall. Mundane tools seem to have little effect on it but thaumium seems to do the trick.
Spontaneous outbreaks. When doing early crafting, an occasional burst of taint might occur. Something easy to clean up... if you don't put it off.
Gardening. Cleaning up all the taint might be the best idea... but what if you kept some? Keep a bit of taint contained and watch it putrefy. Certain blocks items could keep it contained so that you can keep a little slice of decay in your garden.
Research. Watching this corrupting force tear apart reality at the level of its most basic aspects is.... enlightening. Taint can speed up your research processes, but at what cost to your mind?
Ruins. Throughout your travels you might find lands already conquered by the corruption of magic itself. But nature doesn't produce taint on it's own. Taint comes from imbalance. And so only the work of another Thaumaturge could have caused it. If you find the remains of their home, you could find their research. You'll not make the same mistakes as them, right?
Harnessing. Maybe you've gone too far. Maybe it doesn't really matter at this point. Taint is the very essence of entropy itself. And entropy often releases energy that can be harnessed. Sure there is that nagging feeling that you're hastening the end of all existence itself but only by a tiny bit, right? Just give it a nudge and watch the boulder crash down the hill.
Apocalypse. This got out of hand just a teency bit. Maybe it was feeding the taint raw vis crystals, maybe it was leaving the fence gate open in your tainted garden and just maybe it was when you tried to make a jetpack out of powered by taint spores. That's kind of irrelevant now and there isn't any point blaming anyone (it was definitely the jetpack). The point being, it's time to leave. Maybe you can clean this mess up later but something is banging on your door that you're pretty sure used to be a villager and it's time to high-tail it.
I decided not to do more concrete ideas but more of a theme since I have no idea about the general state of TC6.
Oh yeah. I've always loved taint ever since my first experience with it in TC2. I remember a chunk in my farm getting tainted and coming out to be murdered by my own corrupted farm animals. Taint has since been sort of tame ever since TF3. Taint should be a sort of inevitability, something to manage rather than avoid all together. A cost of doing business with thaumaturgical energies. Manage it well and it can help you along in your magical studies, but let it loose and it just might eat half your base. A few ideas:
Manageability. Taint in it's early stages is little more than a nuisance. A bit of purple fiber clinging to your wall. Mundane tools seem to have little effect on it but thaumium seems to do the trick.
Spontaneous outbreaks. When doing early crafting, an occasional burst of taint might occur. Something easy to clean up... if you don't put it off.
Gardening. Cleaning up all the taint might be the best idea... but what if you kept some? Keep a bit of taint contained and watch it putrefy. Certain blocks items could keep it contained so that you can keep a little slice of decay in your garden.
Research. Watching this corrupting force tear apart reality at the level of its most basic aspects is.... enlightening. Taint can speed up your research processes, but at what cost to your mind?
Ruins. Throughout your travels you might find lands already conquered by the corruption of magic itself. But nature doesn't produce taint on it's own. Taint comes from imbalance. And so only the work of another Thaumaturge could have caused it. If you find the remains of their home, you could find their research. You'll not make the same mistakes as them, right?
Harnessing. Maybe you've gone too far. Maybe it doesn't really matter at this point. Taint is the very essence of entropy itself. And entropy often releases energy that can be harnessed. Sure there is that nagging feeling that you're hastening the end of all existence itself but only by a tiny bit, right? Just give it a nudge and watch the boulder crash down the hill.
Apocalypse. This got out of hand just a teency bit. Maybe it was feeding the taint raw vis crystals, maybe it was leaving the fence gate open in your tainted garden and just maybe it was when you tried to make a jetpack out of powered by taint spores. That's kind of irrelevant now and there isn't any point blaming anyone (it was definitely the jetpack). The point being, it's time to leave. Maybe you can clean this mess up later but something is banging on your door that you're pretty sure used to be a villager and it's time to high-tail it.
I decided not to do more concrete ideas but more of a theme since I have no idea about the general state of TC6.
You know, if only there weren't people out there who would abuse it I would suggest the tainted jetpack as either a Forbidden Knowledge under Artiface or an Eldritch research. As it is though, there would be way too many people flying around servers spewing taint on the poor innocent noobs' houses down below. Still, Taint can and should have risky-but-practical applications. The thing with growing a bloom into a tree and then letting it wither for Vis could be something, and even in TC5 you can with a lot of skill auto-farm Tainted resources by (for example) using an autocaster to zap tainted mobs from a floating platform and collecting loot with either a flying golem or some vacuum hopper equivalent if you have other mods. By the way Azanor, speaking of golems, is there any way the TC6 Golemancy could be something like TC5? Thinking of dealing with TC4 Golems in the next version makes me cringe, it seems like a major downgrade. Even if you have to release a version or two without Golems like you did in TC5 I would be OK just put as much effort as you possibly can into the golems and make them awesome again! (sorry if I sound demanding, I just love TC5 golems.)
Ahem. Back to taint. I think most of the ideas in the post I'm quoting are valid, except that Taint can happen naturally currently, it's called a Tainted Node. They spawn in worldgen, more common in Tainted Lands I think but still sometimes outside them. That, and the fact that a Hungry Node as seen in TC5 can cause Taint easily, as they eat Vis instead of produce it, creating imbalance that can snowball into Taint.
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
You know, if only there weren't people out there who would abuse it I would suggest the tainted jetpack as either a Forbidden Knowledge under Artiface or an Eldritch research. As it is though, there would be way too many people flying around servers spewing taint on the poor innocent noobs' houses down below. Still, Taint can and should have risky-but-practical applications. The thing with growing a bloom into a tree and then letting it wither for Vis could be something, and even in TC5 you can with a lot of skill auto-farm Tainted resources by (for example) using an autocaster to zap tainted mobs from a floating platform and collecting loot with either a flying golem or some vacuum hopper equivalent if you have other mods. By the way Azanor, speaking of golems, is there any way the TC6 Golemancy could be something like TC5? Thinking of dealing with TC4 Golems in the next version makes me cringe, it seems like a major downgrade. Even if you have to release a version or two without Golems like you did in TC5 I would be OK just put as much effort as you possibly can into the golems and make them awesome again! (sorry if I sound demanding, I just love TC5 golems.)
Ahem. Back to taint. I think most of the ideas in the post I'm quoting are valid, except that Taint can happen naturally currently, it's called a Tainted Node. They spawn in worldgen, more common in Tainted Lands I think but still sometimes outside them. That, and the fact that a Hungry Node as seen in TC5 can cause Taint easily, as they eat Vis instead of produce it, creating imbalance that can snowball into Taint.
I guess there is no way around the taint's extreme grief potential.
You know, if only there weren't people out there who would abuse it I would suggest the tainted jetpack as either a Forbidden Knowledge under Artiface or an Eldritch research. As it is though, there would be way too many people flying around servers spewing taint on the poor innocent noobs' houses down below. Still, Taint can and should have risky-but-practical applications. The thing with growing a bloom into a tree and then letting it wither for Vis could be something, and even in TC5 you can with a lot of skill auto-farm Tainted resources by (for example) using an autocaster to zap tainted mobs from a floating platform and collecting loot with either a flying golem or some vacuum hopper equivalent if you have other mods. By the way Azanor, speaking of golems, is there any way the TC6 Golemancy could be something like TC5? Thinking of dealing with TC4 Golems in the next version makes me cringe, it seems like a major downgrade. Even if you have to release a version or two without Golems like you did in TC5 I would be OK just put as much effort as you possibly can into the golems and make them awesome again! (sorry if I sound demanding, I just love TC5 golems.)
Ahem. Back to taint. I think most of the ideas in the post I'm quoting are valid, except that Taint can happen naturally currently, it's called a Tainted Node. They spawn in worldgen, more common in Tainted Lands I think but still sometimes outside them. That, and the fact that a Hungry Node as seen in TC5 can cause Taint easily, as they eat Vis instead of produce it, creating imbalance that can snowball into Taint.
The jetpack was more of a joke. Something that was tried and went horribly wrong. I'm not really trying to do exact specifics, just bouncing ideas off the wall and seeing if anything sticks.
And taint definitely occurs naturally in TC4 and TC5 (can't remember about TC3 and TC2) but Azanor is reworking the node system so it wouldn't be hard to say that doesn't occur now. It also wouldn't functionally be that different. It's just that in a tainted biomes there would be a little ruin containing some nasty critters and something necessary to go deeper in the tainted research tree. Kind of like the book from the Crimson Cultists.
I guess there is no way around the taint's extreme grief potential.
I think that should be up to the server. Having the ability to turn off certain problematic items and turn down (or off) the rate of taint spread would be nice. But for me I usually play on a small private server with a trustworthy group of people so it's not a big issue.
The thing is, there is no possible middle ground for taint. It has to be a dangerous threat, or else it's ignored.
I totally agree. Ever since TC2 taint has been basically non-existent outside of tainted biomes. It was always no big deal to just be slightly more careful and never have to deal with taint. The mechanic was dead before it hit the ground.
The issue with Taint was that even at high level play, it was an exercise in futility to deal with beyond using absolutely egregious numbers of purifying blooms or an entire forest of pure nodes. Not to mention that in 5, the Taint also disintegrated the ground, so if you used enough blooms to actually cure it, they would often break each other's bases via disintegration and pop them off into the sea of dust.
When you make something a threat, but never give a good reward for trying to find ways to fight it and instead make it sheer busywork, it goes from interesting to frustrating. I'd rather it be a setpiece than something that was irritating to deal with even when you're tearing worlds asunder with your magic power.
The issue with Taint was that even at high level play, it was an exercise in futility to deal with beyond using absolutely egregious numbers of purifying blooms or an entire forest of pure nodes. Not to mention that in 5, the Taint also disintegrated the ground, so if you used enough blooms to actually cure it, they would often break each other's bases via disintegration and pop them off into the sea of dust.
When you make something a threat, but never give a good reward for trying to find ways to fight it and instead make it sheer busywork, it goes from interesting to frustrating. I'd rather it be a setpiece than something that was irritating to deal with even when you're tearing worlds asunder with your magic power.
I could be committing a crime by suggesting this, buuut maybe taint shouldn't even exist within a biome, rather only as a "punishment". I mean, it makes sense for players to have to fight taint because of their own irresponsible actions that caused it to appear in the first place. I always found myself disabling taint biomes or at the very least disabling taint spread completely because of the exact thing you said. I had this constant pressure to deal with something that gave me no reward and it was frustrating. However, I'd understand and completely ignore the frustration if it was cleaning up a mess I had caused / dealing with a consequence of my actions rather than just some random biome.
I could be committing a crime by suggesting this, buuut maybe taint shouldn't even exist within a biome, rather only as a "punishment". I mean, it makes sense for players to have to fight taint because of their own irresponsible actions that caused it to appear in the first place. I always found myself disabling taint biomes or at the very least disabling taint spread completely because of the exact thing you said. I had this constant pressure to deal with something that gave me no reward and it was frustrating. However, I'd understand and completely ignore the frustration if it was cleaning up a mess I had caused / dealing with a consequence of my actions rather than just some random biome.
Hmm... not a bad idea IMO, I don't like random Taint biomes myself cause they're a big hazard early game and you can get a much more manageable taint patch by just overflowing a crucible if you need Tainted resources.
Edit: course if Azanor does this I'd like to see Taint spread get buffed so that it's still a hazard.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
The thing is, there is no possible middle ground for taint. It has to be a dangerous threat, or else it's ignored.
Actually the opposite is true:
There is already a wide scale perception in the general modded community that taint in TC4 and TC5 is a game ending disaster. The bulk of posts on server forums regarding it are of the form "OMG theres taint! Its going to break my server. How do I disable it?".
In order for taint in TC6 to be "interesting" to the general community:
* it needs to be perceived as being ... friendlier. Not friendly. But also not a game ending destroyer of bases of unprepared players. Remembering that a lot of players that might find themselves inadvertently close to taint might not be interested primarily in Thaumcraft, or even if they are, dealing with taint is too deep into the thaumcraft tech tree.
* It needs to have less grief potential or server operators will turn it off. Now, I don't pretend to know the ratio of SMP to SSP players who play Thaumcraft, but I (for one) like SMP and I'd like to think that a sizable proportion of Thaumcraft players play online. And any mechanic that is going to be turned off by default by server owners is just never going to feature in those games.
* There needs to be some tangible benefit to going there. Outside of some non critical tainted research there is no reason to ever visit a tainted biome, and they are damn hard to live in - I know - I've tried. And (see my first point) if you can't live in it, never need to visit it for any length of time whats the point of making it dangerous? Whats the point of wasting any time at all developing content for it if no one actually gets to see it?
Actually the opposite is true:
There is already a wide scale perception in the general modded community that taint in TC4 and TC5 is a game ending disaster. The bulk of posts on server forums regarding it are of the form "OMG theres taint! Its going to break my server. How do I disable it?".
In order for taint in TC6 to be "interesting" to the general community:
* it needs to be perceived as being ... friendlier. Not friendly. But also not a game ending destroyer of bases of unprepared players. Remembering that a lot of players that might find themselves inadvertently close to taint might not be interested primarily in Thaumcraft, or even if they are, dealing with taint is too deep into the thaumcraft tech tree.
* It needs to have less grief potential or server operators will turn it off. Now, I don't pretend to know the ratio of SMP to SSP players who play Thaumcraft, but I (for one) like SMP and I'd like to think that a sizable proportion of Thaumcraft players play online. And any mechanic that is going to be turned off by default by server owners is just never going to feature in those games.
* There needs to be some tangible benefit to going there. Outside of some non critical tainted research there is no reason to ever visit a tainted biome, and they are damn hard to live in - I know - I've tried. And (see my first point) if you can't live in it, never need to visit it for any length of time whats the point of making it dangerous? Whats the point of wasting any time at all developing content for it if no one actually gets to see it?
I am inclined to disagree with this, but since you made a valid point about servers how about this: Default config = Apocalyptic Taint. Alternate config option 1 = less dangerous taint that still spreads a little bit, but is not quite so tough to deal with. Alternate config option 2 = Taint does not spread at all. Also a side config option to disable bottled taint would be nice for servers I think.
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I am inclined to disagree with this, but since you made a valid point about servers how about this: Default config = Apocalyptic Taint. Alternate config option 1 = less dangerous taint that still spreads a little bit, but is not quite so tough to deal with. Alternate config option 2 = Taint does not spread at all. Also a side config option to disable bottled taint would be nice for servers I think.
I agree, but with 1 being the deafoult, since anyone who wants a chalenge will know how to change the config, but noobs don't
I agree, but with 1 being the deafoult, since anyone who wants a chalenge will know how to change the config, but noobs don't
Ok, fair point. I can deal with this.
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I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
Since all of the "cleaning" options are rather late in the reasearch for balance reasons, it gets to be difficult to remove taint at that point as it has spread so far already...
So I would suggest, and it might be heretical, that the spread of taint slow down as it gets further from the biome, eventually reaching a point where it effectively doesn't spread. Granted, I'm not savvy enough with modding to know how possible it is.
I also feel the biome itself, while still incredibly hostile, should be viable and fun to explore; perhaps with knowlege and materials gathered from earlier ventures, one could learn to survive better in fluxy environments. Or maybe it could just have the occasional unique dungeon (unless it does already, I never noticed).
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Praise be Ro-naza, greatest among the thaumaturges!
Since all of the "cleaning" options are rather late in the reasearch for balance reasons, it gets to be difficult to remove taint at that point as it has spread so far already...
So I would suggest, and it might be heretical, that the spread of taint slow down as it gets further from the biome, eventually reaching a point where it effectively doesn't spread. Granted, I'm not savvy enough with modding to know how possible it is.
I also feel the biome itself, while still incredibly hostile, should be viable and fun to explore; perhaps with knowlege and materials gathered from earlier ventures, one could learn to survive better in fluxy environments. Or maybe it could just have the occasional unique dungeon (unless it does already, I never noticed).
Hrm, that makes taint a potential good thing. That kinda seems to go against the design.
Maybe add special reward chest that can only be opened if you cleanse the biome?
How about this:
1. Taint can only spread within the biome its created in, this means it won't eat the whole world but will still trash your base if you're careless.
2. Each worldgen taint biome has a few tainted nodes which, when all of them are cleansed, cut off the taint from its 'life source' causing all the taint in the biome to die. Player-created taint could taint existing nodes and work the same way.
3. Cleansing nodes requires planting an Ethereal Bloom near them and defending it against a horde of tainted creatures for a time (like the immune system idea discussed earlier). Tainted nodes cannot be destroyed by breaking them so cleansing is the only way to kill the taint.
4. To compensate for the reduced threat from taint spread, tainted creatures could wander into adjacent biomes and be a general annoyance, to provide an additional incentive to remove the taint but not ruin the game for people on server modpacks who don't use TC.
Also, to address the issue of taint barely being a problem if you take proper precautions, there could be alternate research pathways that give you more powerful items and abilities to let you progress faster, but produce far more flux so you are virtually guaranteed to create taint. Kind of like forbidden knowledge on steroids.
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Curse PremiumI like the idea of having different "levels" of primal knowledge, it would give a nice feeling of a more magically-oriented progress instead of just a percentage of all reasearches done like in TC5. It would also help with the multiplayer aspect, I can see a group of 6 people joining up to master one of each of the primals in order to gain unlimited power
IT would also give addon modders an easy way to quantify how advanced they want their own researches to be, by making a required primal knowledge level for each of their researches to make them early game, midgame, or late game, depending.
I would contribute with an idea, basically is in the Alchemy area: As far I can see in TC5, hasn's been developed the idea of Quantitative Alchemy and Qualitative Alchemy. Alchemy in this mod has an enormous potential in the branch of research and minigames. Alchemy is an unique area and should have its own form of investigation, different of Thaumaturgy, Golemancy and Artifice. The work of an Alchemist is join up and breack down aspects. Let the work of the Alchemy, consisting of "drynesse" and "moisture", instruct you. He that endeavours to enter into the Thaumonomicon without knowing alchemy, is like him who would walk without feet. Nature, Reason, Experience and Reading must be the Guide, Staff for alchemist.
Qualitatve Alchemy is the study that deals with the identification of aspect or gruop of aspects that comforms the environment. Dependendig of the complexity of de cube (or sample), you should employ different techniques OR equipment, like an Arcane Alembic or Thaumometer or "Vitum Test": you burn a sample and the amount of vitum released is proportional of the tier aspect, Tier 5 aspects release much more vitum than a Tier 4 aspects and so on. Another work is establish the state of aggregation of the aspects, why this is impotant? 'cause the state of aggregations influence the speed of propagation of the aspect and its reactivity, so Vitum aspect in normal conditions is gas, therefore its speed of propagation is very high; to manipulte Vitum you should tranform in Liquid or Crystal State. a Another work for the Thaumaturge in this area is to generate a complet list or table of reactivity of the aspects and identify in what conditions an aspects can react with another: Aqua and Terra will react to form Victus in normal conditions, but to form Vitreus from Terra and Aer you must need a certain conditions and you must investigate what are these conditions, sometimes the reactions of very reactive, aspects like
Ordo or Perditio could be dangereous 'cause they reactions are an exergonic procces (In fact Perditio is the most reactive aspect currently in TC5).
Quantitative Alchemy is the determination of amount-aspect in certain sample (or cube) and design a process to synthesize a required aspect from primal aspects. You gain experience if know all the design of the process to synthesize the aspects.
What do you guys think?. Sorry for the wall of text
Do you have any biome enhancement mod?
To Azanor:
I see a lot of people suggesting new mechanics, and some who like the TC5 system, not too much support for the proposed new system but even that has a couple supporters. My suggestion: Try to find a less-annoying compromise between the new system you suggested and the TC5 one. If you're running short on ideas you can just look at all the people with suggestions for new mechanics, not all of them will make the cut but you might find a few tidbits to get your imagination working. As for other aspects of the mod, I want you to make Taint highly dangerous, not like early TC5 where it could eat a world whole, but more like later-on TC5 where it's very destructive but within logical boundaries. Seeing as how some rare aspects come from Taint, it should be possible to farm it, but very risky to try since if it gnaws a hole in your farm it could eat your base. It should also have some sort of an "immune system" like what was suggested before, but it shouldn't be able to destroy a bloom that has had time to grow good roots, only one that was just planted recently. There should also be a way to filter flux from the air manually, that way you can cut off a taint patch's supply of flux to stop it growing if you catch it soon enough, and also prevent a Tainted Node or similar from ruining that pleasant village-side spot where you built your castle. Also if you manage to get a chance to expand features before the next rewrite, PLEASE expand the endgame. There is one thing that bothers me about TC, and that is this... The Primordial Pearl is supposed to have unlimited potential. Why, then is it only used for like two things???
Edit: Where are my manners? Thanks for reading this!
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
Oh yeah. I've always loved taint ever since my first experience with it in TC2. I remember a chunk in my farm getting tainted and coming out to be murdered by my own corrupted farm animals. Taint has since been sort of tame ever since TF3. Taint should be a sort of inevitability, something to manage rather than avoid all together. A cost of doing business with thaumaturgical energies. Manage it well and it can help you along in your magical studies, but let it loose and it just might eat half your base. A few ideas:
I decided not to do more concrete ideas but more of a theme since I have no idea about the general state of TC6.
You know, if only there weren't people out there who would abuse it I would suggest the tainted jetpack as either a Forbidden Knowledge under Artiface or an Eldritch research. As it is though, there would be way too many people flying around servers spewing taint on the poor innocent noobs' houses down below. Still, Taint can and should have risky-but-practical applications. The thing with growing a bloom into a tree and then letting it wither for Vis could be something, and even in TC5 you can with a lot of skill auto-farm Tainted resources by (for example) using an autocaster to zap tainted mobs from a floating platform and collecting loot with either a flying golem or some vacuum hopper equivalent if you have other mods. By the way Azanor, speaking of golems, is there any way the TC6 Golemancy could be something like TC5? Thinking of dealing with TC4 Golems in the next version makes me cringe, it seems like a major downgrade. Even if you have to release a version or two without Golems like you did in TC5 I would be OK just put as much effort as you possibly can into the golems and make them awesome again! (sorry if I sound demanding, I just love TC5 golems.)
Ahem. Back to taint. I think most of the ideas in the post I'm quoting are valid, except that Taint can happen naturally currently, it's called a Tainted Node. They spawn in worldgen, more common in Tainted Lands I think but still sometimes outside them. That, and the fact that a Hungry Node as seen in TC5 can cause Taint easily, as they eat Vis instead of produce it, creating imbalance that can snowball into Taint.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I guess there is no way around the taint's extreme grief potential.
I made a D flip-flop!
The jetpack was more of a joke. Something that was tried and went horribly wrong. I'm not really trying to do exact specifics, just bouncing ideas off the wall and seeing if anything sticks.
And taint definitely occurs naturally in TC4 and TC5 (can't remember about TC3 and TC2) but Azanor is reworking the node system so it wouldn't be hard to say that doesn't occur now. It also wouldn't functionally be that different. It's just that in a tainted biomes there would be a little ruin containing some nasty critters and something necessary to go deeper in the tainted research tree. Kind of like the book from the Crimson Cultists.
Amen to the TC5 golems.
I think that should be up to the server. Having the ability to turn off certain problematic items and turn down (or off) the rate of taint spread would be nice. But for me I usually play on a small private server with a trustworthy group of people so it's not a big issue.
I totally agree. Ever since TC2 taint has been basically non-existent outside of tainted biomes. It was always no big deal to just be slightly more careful and never have to deal with taint. The mechanic was dead before it hit the ground.
I do have Ridiculous World...and of course a bunch of mods add a biome here and there, but I haven't found any at all.
Mod added Overworld biomes:
Chromaticraft
S:"Ender Forest Biome ID"=61
S:"Luminous Cliffs Biome ID"=63
S:"Rainbow Forest Biome ID"=62
Ars Magica 2
I:WitchwoodForestBiomeID=64
I:biomeOilDesert=131
I:biomeOilOcean=130
I:biome_eerie=194
I:biome_magical_forest=193
I:biome_taint=192
Ridiculous World
I:"Botanical Garden"=185
I:"Mountain of Madness"=186
I:Murica=187
I:Ossuary=188
I:"Rock Candy Mountain"=189
I:"Shadow Fen"=190
I:"Spooky Forest"=191
...Huh. Less than I thought.
All mod biomes (I just copied my ID backup list):
Twilight Forest
I:biome.id.Clearing=49
I:biome.id.DarkForest=55
I:biome.id.DarkForestCenter=53
I:biome.id.DeepMushrooms=52
I:biome.id.EnchantedForest=56
I:biome.id.FireSwamp=57
I:biome.id.Glacier=48
I:biome.id.Highlands=43
I:biome.id.HighlandsCenter=54
I:biome.id.Lake=40
I:biome.id.LightedForest=51
I:biome.id.Mushrooms=44
I:biome.id.OakSavanna=50
I:biome.id.Snowfield=47
I:biome.id.Stream=46
I:biome.id.Swamp=45
I:biome.id.Thornlands=58
I:biome.id.TwilightForest=41
I:biome.id.TwilightForestVariant=42
Chromaticraft
S:"Ender Forest Biome ID"=61
S:"Luminous Cliffs Biome ID"=63
S:"Rainbow Forest Biome ID"=62
Ars Magica 2
I:WitchwoodForestBiomeID=64
Chromaticraft Chroma
S:"Aura Ocean Biome ID"=106
S:"Central Biome ID"=109
S:"Crystal Forest Biome ID"=104
S:"Crystal Mountains Biome ID"=105
S:"Crystal Plains Biome ID"=102
S:"Glowing Forest Biome ID"=103
S:"Island Biome ID"=101
S:"Skyland Biome ID"=100
S:"Sparkling Sands Biome ID"=110
S:"Structure Biome ID"=107
S:"Voidland Biome ID"=108
I:"Elysian Fields"=123
I:"Fields - Forest"=127
I:"Fungal Forest"=125
I:"Submerged Swamp"=126
I:"Subterranean Savannah"=122
I:"Ulterior Outback"=124
I:"Underground Jungle"=120
I:"Volcanic Desert"=121
I:biomeOilDesert=131
I:biomeOilOcean=130
I:biome_eerie=194
I:biome_eldritch=195
I:biome_magical_forest=193
I:biome_taint=192
I:"Limbo Biome ID"=148
I:"Pocket Biome ID"=147
Betweenlands
I:"Coarse Islands Biome ID"=69
I:"Deep Water Biome ID"=70
I:"Marsh 1 Biome ID"=71
I:"Marsh 2 Biome ID"=72
I:"Patchy Islands Biome ID"=73
I:"Sludge Plains Biome ID"=74
I:"Swamplands Biome ID"=75
Ridiculous World
I:"Botanical Garden"=185
I:"Mountain of Madness"=186
I:Murica=187
I:Ossuary=188
I:"Rock Candy Mountain"=189
I:"Shadow Fen"=190
I:"Spooky Forest"=191
I have this list so I have guaranteed non-conflicting biomes in any instance with these mods.
~~~~~~~~
Fall into the hands of sorrow
Drawn by the darkest bay
Walk into the pit of silence
I am the one calling your name
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The issue with Taint was that even at high level play, it was an exercise in futility to deal with beyond using absolutely egregious numbers of purifying blooms or an entire forest of pure nodes. Not to mention that in 5, the Taint also disintegrated the ground, so if you used enough blooms to actually cure it, they would often break each other's bases via disintegration and pop them off into the sea of dust.
When you make something a threat, but never give a good reward for trying to find ways to fight it and instead make it sheer busywork, it goes from interesting to frustrating. I'd rather it be a setpiece than something that was irritating to deal with even when you're tearing worlds asunder with your magic power.
I could be committing a crime by suggesting this, buuut maybe taint shouldn't even exist within a biome, rather only as a "punishment". I mean, it makes sense for players to have to fight taint because of their own irresponsible actions that caused it to appear in the first place. I always found myself disabling taint biomes or at the very least disabling taint spread completely because of the exact thing you said. I had this constant pressure to deal with something that gave me no reward and it was frustrating. However, I'd understand and completely ignore the frustration if it was cleaning up a mess I had caused / dealing with a consequence of my actions rather than just some random biome.
Hmm... not a bad idea IMO, I don't like random Taint biomes myself cause they're a big hazard early game and you can get a much more manageable taint patch by just overflowing a crucible if you need Tainted resources.
Edit: course if Azanor does this I'd like to see Taint spread get buffed so that it's still a hazard.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
Actually the opposite is true:
There is already a wide scale perception in the general modded community that taint in TC4 and TC5 is a game ending disaster. The bulk of posts on server forums regarding it are of the form "OMG theres taint! Its going to break my server. How do I disable it?".
In order for taint in TC6 to be "interesting" to the general community:
* it needs to be perceived as being ... friendlier. Not friendly. But also not a game ending destroyer of bases of unprepared players. Remembering that a lot of players that might find themselves inadvertently close to taint might not be interested primarily in Thaumcraft, or even if they are, dealing with taint is too deep into the thaumcraft tech tree.
* It needs to have less grief potential or server operators will turn it off. Now, I don't pretend to know the ratio of SMP to SSP players who play Thaumcraft, but I (for one) like SMP and I'd like to think that a sizable proportion of Thaumcraft players play online. And any mechanic that is going to be turned off by default by server owners is just never going to feature in those games.
* There needs to be some tangible benefit to going there. Outside of some non critical tainted research there is no reason to ever visit a tainted biome, and they are damn hard to live in - I know - I've tried. And (see my first point) if you can't live in it, never need to visit it for any length of time whats the point of making it dangerous? Whats the point of wasting any time at all developing content for it if no one actually gets to see it?
I am inclined to disagree with this, but since you made a valid point about servers how about this: Default config = Apocalyptic Taint. Alternate config option 1 = less dangerous taint that still spreads a little bit, but is not quite so tough to deal with. Alternate config option 2 = Taint does not spread at all. Also a side config option to disable bottled taint would be nice for servers I think.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I agree, but with 1 being the deafoult, since anyone who wants a chalenge will know how to change the config, but noobs don't
I don't really dig world-eating taint either.
That was probably my least favorite aspect of Thaumcraft 4.
Ok, fair point. I can deal with this.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
Since all of the "cleaning" options are rather late in the reasearch for balance reasons, it gets to be difficult to remove taint at that point as it has spread so far already...
So I would suggest, and it might be heretical, that the spread of taint slow down as it gets further from the biome, eventually reaching a point where it effectively doesn't spread. Granted, I'm not savvy enough with modding to know how possible it is.
I also feel the biome itself, while still incredibly hostile, should be viable and fun to explore; perhaps with knowlege and materials gathered from earlier ventures, one could learn to survive better in fluxy environments. Or maybe it could just have the occasional unique dungeon (unless it does already, I never noticed).
Praise be Ro-naza, greatest among the thaumaturges!
Hrm, that makes taint a potential good thing. That kinda seems to go against the design.
Maybe add special reward chest that can only be opened if you cleanse the biome?
How about this:
1. Taint can only spread within the biome its created in, this means it won't eat the whole world but will still trash your base if you're careless.
2. Each worldgen taint biome has a few tainted nodes which, when all of them are cleansed, cut off the taint from its 'life source' causing all the taint in the biome to die. Player-created taint could taint existing nodes and work the same way.
3. Cleansing nodes requires planting an Ethereal Bloom near them and defending it against a horde of tainted creatures for a time (like the immune system idea discussed earlier). Tainted nodes cannot be destroyed by breaking them so cleansing is the only way to kill the taint.
4. To compensate for the reduced threat from taint spread, tainted creatures could wander into adjacent biomes and be a general annoyance, to provide an additional incentive to remove the taint but not ruin the game for people on server modpacks who don't use TC.
Also, to address the issue of taint barely being a problem if you take proper precautions, there could be alternate research pathways that give you more powerful items and abilities to let you progress faster, but produce far more flux so you are virtually guaranteed to create taint. Kind of like forbidden knowledge on steroids.