Minecraft Forums

And all those friends telling people about it are linking, or their friends can usually use Google. No, I don't think that new talent should be at a distinct disadvantage when this idea still allows the big ones to be at the top of the discussion section.

Nobody is denying you users. The fact that they looked at some packs before getting to yours shouldn't bother you if you're actually confident your pack is worth looking at. If yours is better, they will use it. If it's not, they'll be happy with that one they saw before.

With this, you'd still have a place to play your popularity game. You should be happy with that. Meanwhile, those of us with a life or at least more interesting things to do than play this game can inform someone of our nice textures and then move on until the next update if we wish and maybe someone will actually see it.

Hell, under the sub-board with the descriptions they can even say, along with that the boards are for, "This one will usually have more popular packs at the top," and "This one will have the latest updates at the top."

Quote from Gestankfaust

IMO...

The word "popular" around here is just what it is in music or anything else. Just because the most popular music is (insert music clone here), doesn't mean best or even the most liked. It's always gonna be like that.

pop·u·larAdjective/ˈpäpyələr/
1. Liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group.
2. (of a belief or attitude) Held by the majority of the general public.

Yeah, where in that definition does it say the best? It doesn't. And 9 times out of 10 it is the most liked. Music is a GREAT example. Lady Gaga, she releases a song that PERSONALLY I hate (Because its not my style of music) so to me its a bad song, but to the mass majority ITS FANTASTIC! You can't base something like that off personal opinion. One persons trash is anothers treasure.

Quote from Gestankfaust

That's what I said...actually

Except my point is that most "popular" things (like music, movies) cannot be judged correctly by that definition. Most popular by what? Downloads/views? Or by rating (which completely changes a lot of things when saying "popular")?

You know, ill just give you this one. I've been arguing this stuff for 20 hours now and I think its time for me to call it quits. You have my vote, I've said what I needed to say. That's all I can do.

All I have to say is filters.

IF there is any restructuring done there MUST be a filter drop down list.

As for the insulting reference to people not having a life out of minecraft.

**** YOU!

This forum helped me start my own game design company solely because I was on it so much (and was able to prove my skills). If a person does not want to spend the time to promote their work that is their own fault. I have no problem with it, there are plenty of good packs with in active creators; But here is a solid fact about anything internet related.

IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE IT YOU MUST PROMOTE IT. That is why companies have ENTIRE departments dedicated to SEO (search engine optimization)

You cannot just post your stuff on a forum and hope for it to flourish. With the current system (if the mods did their ****ing jobs) hard work would be rewarded. With the new system it wouldn't.

Quote from steelfeathers

Okay, someone suggested imitating the planetminecraft setup of having a popular list, to which I just have to say:

No. That's a terrible idea. So often I see troll packs that have interesting pictures on the cover, and lots of people click on them because they say 'oo, pretty picture'. And when they discover that it's really just a troll pack they leave without commenting.

BUT their view still counts towards its popularity, and before you know it that troll pack is up on the popular list, at which point everyone clicks on it because it's on the popular list, but it's still just a troll pack...

EDIT: If, on the other hand, packs become more popular due to comments (which they do now), those troll packs would never have made it to the popular list

Well, if you've seen planetminecraft, the MOST popular texturepacks dont just have 10 vieews, they have many many more. But my main point there, is the user has a very distinct. obviously displayed CHOICE on how they want to view the texturepacks. IF you are one of the people who wants something new, awesome, go ahead and sort it by newest. If your the type of person who is like "I just want a quality texturepack" they can go to most popular, check out the most downloaded ones, and those are probably NOT troll packs. I just think, this whole discussion is all about how people view getting a new texturepack. Some people just don't like searching very hard, and they will pick one pretty popular one, thats popular cause its a pretty aesthetically pleasing pack to them. The site owner/designer may choose to make it the default to just show the newest, but making an obvious area to change what your searching for is great. Cause then, people go to teh texturepacks forum, see all the new texturepacks, but if they want to see popular ones BAM theres a button to do that! And wile yes i guess the minecraftforums DO have some kind of filter system, i think from this thread we can see that people haven't really noticed it is there. If you can add some more filters, change the default to newest, and let us CHOOSE how we want to see this, i think that will make EVERYONE HAPPY! Then, having to have multiple threads, doesn't apply, cause bumped texturepacks may be at the top of the "Whats hot" filter, but no one HAS to see them. In fact, if its not default, most people WONT see them.

Quote from steelfeathers

I still don't think we should be trying to imitate planetminecraft. In case you haven't noticed, they have no real texture pack community. Probably because things don't get bumped when people post questions, comments, suggestions, etc.

Well, my main point isnt planetminecraft really... but all i can say is..

Quote from 42and19

All I have to say is filters.

IF there is any restructuring done there MUST be a filter drop down list.

As for the insulting reference to people not having a life out of minecraft.

**** YOU!

This forum helped me start my own game design company solely because I was on it so much (and was able to prove my skills). If a person does not want to spend the time to promote their work that is their own fault. I have no problem with it, there are plenty of good packs with in active creators; But here is a solid fact about anything internet related.

IF YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE IT YOU MUST PROMOTE IT. That is why companies have ENTIRE departments dedicated to SEO (search engine optimization)

You cannot just post your stuff on a forum and hope for it to flourish. With the current system (if the mods did their ****ing jobs) hard work would be rewarded. With the new system it wouldn't.

I wasn't referring to playing Minecraft or even browsing the forums. I was referring to making sure you're the most popular and always on the first page, which in my opinion is ultimately a waste of time. Making sure what you're putting out is good is important, and having open discussion with the people you're providing to is important. But denying people the chance to be discovered freshly when it can be done is shitty. What if nobody ever bothered to look at your thread because it wasn't a big popular pack? Would you still have started your own company?

Christ, I don't even disagree with you. If you want to be popular you do have to promote it, and we should have an easy way to find filters. I don't really have a life myself, but I don't want an incredibly popular pack and don't want to have to constantly bump my thread to get people to look at it. If they can see it for a little bit after every update, I'd be happy.

At least, if I decide I want to make a pack proper. As of now I just make textures and put them up on MinecraftCustomizer and that's good for me.

Quote from evercharmer

I wasn't referring to playing Minecraft or even browsing the forums. I was referring to making sure you're the most popular and always on the first page, which in my opinion is ultimately a waste of time. Making sure what you're putting out is good is important, and having open discussion with the people you're providing to is important. But denying people the chance to be discovered freshly when it can be done is shitty. What if nobody ever bothered to look at your thread because it wasn't a big popular pack? Would you still have started your own company?

Christ, I don't even disagree with you. If you want to be popular you do have to promote it, and we should have an easy way to find filters. I don't really have a life myself, but I don't want an incredibly popular pack and don't want to have to constantly bump my thread to get people to look at it. If they can see it for a little bit after every update, I'd be happy.

At least, if I decide I want to make a pack proper. As of now I just make textures and put them up on MinecraftCustomizer and that's good for me.

I apologize for driving the semi-truck of my brain down your throat. Hasn't been a good week for me (not a good excuse though)

Technically my pack isn't popular. It is highly stylized and many people don't want that. That was a design choice. The main thing that helped me was posting a ****-ton on the forums, giving feedback on dozens of threads etc...

Quote from evercharmer

I wasn't referring to playing Minecraft or even browsing the forums. I was referring to making sure you're the most popular and always on the first page, which in my opinion is ultimately a waste of time. Making sure what you're putting out is good is important, and having open discussion with the people you're providing to is important. But denying people the chance to be discovered freshly when it can be done is shitty. What if nobody ever bothered to look at your thread because it wasn't a big popular pack? Would you still have started your own company?

Christ, I don't even disagree with you. If you want to be popular you do have to promote it, and we should have an easy way to find filters. I don't really have a life myself, but I don't want an incredibly popular pack and don't want to have to constantly bump my thread to get people to look at it. If they can see it for a little bit after every update, I'd be happy.

At least, if I decide I want to make a pack proper. As of now I just make textures and put them up on MinecraftCustomizer and that's good for me.

Yeah see, you don't like seeing only the popular packs, so you can change a filter. Some other dude wants to find a popular pack, so he uses that filter. See, were ALL happy!

But seriously though, i do think that sure, the mods or whoever is gonna actually initiate this plan, could make whatever filter the default main one. Sure, id be fine having newest packs on front, its cool to see some silly little texturepack to add some fun to my day. But as long as when i do want to see it someway else, i will be able to. Who thinks this idea sounds good?

Quote from 42and19

I apologize for driving the semi-truck of my brain down your throat. Hasn't been a good week for me (not a good excuse though)

Technically my pack isn't popular. It is highly stylized and many people don't want that. That was a design choice. The main thing that helped me was posting a ****-ton on the forums, giving feedback on dozens of threads etc...

Yeah, it's cool. On top of whatever stuff you've had going on we're all a little worked up over this mess too, so I get it. I don't hold grudges either way, they're pretty much never worth the effort.

I'd be just as happy with making the filters more apparent, really. Visible buttons or a drop-down I can change on the fly that remembers my last choice would be wonderful.

Quote from steelfeathers

I tried to inform you guys earlier, but the thread got moved almost as soon as it was posted. And when I threatened to post it again, I got banned.

Actually, that's how I got here (as I said, I never check the Texture Pack area.... Sorry again). The title looked important enough (even though it was moved) that I decided to check it. I'm glad I did. I'd post a thread in the modding section, but being a "nobody", I doubt it would be very useful. And that's assuming it doesn't get moved. This needs to be discussed in the "Modding" section, not in the "modding and discussion" area. I honestly don't check *anything* outside "released mods" section. I'm sure there's others like me. I'm concerned, because the proposal, as I understand it, severely negatively effects mod authors. They should be spending their time updating/fixing their mod (and LIFE first and foremost), and not on updating/maintaining their thread. If I were a mod author, I would create ONE thread (regardless of the various sections/rules), and only maintain that. If I had to create a thread for all of the various sections (to avoid being banned or something), I'd only ever look at ONE thread, and I'd ignore all the others. It's just not worth the effort, especially considering the amount of time/effort necessary to create the mod in the first place.

Perhaps, instead of splitting up discussion and whatnot, a new WIKI page be created, that lists ALL current mods, alphabetically, with a link to the appropriate thread. And, as a rule for new mods, they have to update this WIKI page with their mod. That way, they only need to do it once, and not worry about it later. This would make it easier to see which mods are current, updated, and available. It'd be easier to search a list of mods, than the forums as they are now.

When a new version of Minecraft comes out, the "Current MODs" wiki page is renamed something like "MODs for <VERSION NUMBER>", and an entirely new "Current MODs" page is created. Then, as the mod author updates their mod to work with new versions of Minecraft, they update the WIKI page accordingly. This would also allow users to ease the burden on MOD authors, as the users could update the page for them. And, in the instance of a MOD author disappearing, sometimes their work is picked up by a user. The user could then update the WIKI page, linking to the post where they created the update, without having to modify the OP.

If such a WIKI page already exists (or anything even somewhat similar), then its presence needs to be made significantly more apparent. I'd check there, if such a page existed (and it might), but I've seen no indication that such a page exists.

Hopefully a revised restructuring proposal can be made for the modding section. Even as a USER, I don't like what I'm hearing, let alone the problems it creates for MOD authors.... Mouser X over and out.

Quote from Mouser X

Actually, that's how I got here (as I said, I never check the Texture Pack area.... Sorry again). The title looked important enough (even though it was moved) that I decided to check it. I'm glad I did. I'd post a thread in the modding section, but being a "nobody", I doubt it would be very useful. And that's assuming it doesn't get moved. This needs to be discussed in the "Modding" section, not in the "modding and discussion" area. I honestly don't check *anything* outside "released mods" section. I'm sure there's others like me. I'm concerned, because the proposal, as I understand it, severely negatively effects mod authors. They should be spending their time updating/fixing their mod (and LIFE first and foremost), and not on updating/maintaining their thread. If I were a mod author, I would create ONE thread (regardless of the various sections/rules), and only maintain that. If I had to create a thread for all of the various sections (to avoid being banned or something), I'd only ever look at ONE thread, and I'd ignore all the others. It's just not worth the effort, especially considering the amount of time/effort necessary to create the mod in the first place.

Perhaps, instead of splitting up discussion and whatnot, a new WIKI page be created, that lists ALL current mods, alphabetically, with a link to the appropriate thread. And, as a rule for new mods, they have to update this WIKI page with their mod. That way, they only need to do it once, and not worry about it later. This would make it easier to see which mods are current, updated, and available. It'd be easier to search a list of mods, than the forums as they are now.

When a new version of Minecraft comes out, the "Current MODs" wiki page is renamed something like "MODs for <VERSION NUMBER>", and an entirely new "Current MODs" page is created. Then, as the mod author updates their mod to work with new versions of Minecraft, they update the WIKI page accordingly. This would also allow users to ease the burden on MOD authors, as the users could update the page for them. And, in the instance of a MOD author disappearing, sometimes their work is picked up by a user. The user could then update the WIKI page, linking to the post where they created the update, without having to modify the OP.

If such a WIKI page already exists (or anything even somewhat similar), then its presence needs to be made significantly more apparent. I'd check there, if such a page existed (and it might), but I've seen no indication that such a page exists.

Hopefully a revised restructuring proposal can be made for the modding section. Even as a USER, I don't like what I'm hearing, let alone the problems it creates for MOD authors.... Mouser X over and out.

That sounds like something that could easily be vandalized.

To thoroughly end the debate of what popular is...

Popular defines something that is more known to a wider base of individuals.
In this case, No, the most downloaded packs are not necessarily the most popular. With
said definition there can be a popular pack, notorious for being bad, great, or otherwise.

If 1,000 people were to download Joe's pack, but 200,000 people have viewed his texture pack's thread,
his texture pack is considered more popular than Cool Cat Billy's pack, which was downloaded by 100,000 people
and only viewed by those 100k.

That's what the word means: Awareness, NOT Success.
------------------------------------------------
On the topic of Filters, there is no denying the fact that it would allow for easier access, when
navigating the texture pack forums. Quite frankly there's no wrong in borrowing filters from Planet
Minecraft's website.

All they are is keywords! And if we are going to say that this borrowing of "Keyword Search Words/Filters" is
copying, than what's not to say that the whole structure of this entire forum isn't a copy of the 1000's created
before Minecraft's existence!
-------------------------
To summarize this comment as a whole, popular represents, the most viewed of a varied selection of works. It
does not statistically represent the most downloaded, most liked, most eaten, most played with, most... *you know
what I'm getting carried away*

Filters can be a great addition to this subforum, as mentioned above. Don't be afraid to copy, every action you'll ever
do is a copied action if you trace it back far enough. Every thought you'll ever think, has been thought of by
another person, sometime, somewhere, before you. It's life, copying is all good and fair.

Voted B because... actually I shouldn't even need to explain this, it should be self explanitory. The current system works, and the new system will probably put this forum back in the laggy ages when I stoped using it for a while because it had got so bad I half the time couldn't load a page without timing out.

In short: if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Quote from evercharmer

That sounds like something that could easily be vandalized.

It would require moderation. But then, so do the current forums. The problem with creating a forum thread (as opposed to a WIKI page) is that a forum thread is more difficult for the individual MOD authors to maintain (since it's not their post, they wouldn't be able to change it/update it/etc.)

In truth, this used to exist. CreeperDeReeper (if I got the spelling right) used to have a thread that listed all the current MODs, links to their threads, what version they were at, whether they were current or not, and all that stuff. I don't know when he stopped maintaining that thread, but he was around longer than I was (I "left" the forums in Dec. and only came back about 6 weeks ago) before he disappeared. Looking at the modding section as it is now, I'm sure it became too much for one person to keep track of everything (there's other reasons as well, but that's got to be a big one). This is why I suggested a WIKI page, because it could be maintained by the community, rather than expecting one person to take care of the whole thing.

All that aside, I didn't say this was the best solution (I'm sure it's not). Only that it'd make finding MODs a lot easier than the current method. Basically, I don't like what's currently being proposed, and I'm trying to provide any suggestion I can think of, regardless of how realistic it may actually be (though, I am trying to keep the "completely absurd" out of the way). This is why we need this discussion in the Modding section. I can think up all sorts of ideas, but if I'm the only one thinking stuff up, my ideas are most likely going to sound stupid, or outlandish. I'm not the right guy to be proposing stuff (I keep my desktop background pictures in my Music directory after all. It makes no sense, but since that's where they've always been, I've never bothered moving them, because I'd never remember where I moved them too!).

I'm glad to see discussion on the restructure regardless of where that is (as it shows people are concerned), but for a full-fledged solution, it needs more exposure. I'm not the guy to give said exposure, as even if I posted it, it would most likely get moved (as it did when Steelfeathers posted it). Hopefully the "people in charge" realize this, and a thread is started in the Modding section as well.... Mouser X over and out.