I know that evencharmer and I made amends but really?!?
I should have at the very least had an increase in my warning status after that post. This just proves my point. NO CHANGE will help if the is NO MODERATION.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Look, I don't care if your 8 or 20. If you can't take criticism or opinions, then get off the internet." -Stronghold257
I know that evencharmer and I made amends but really?!?
I should have at the very least had an increase in my warning status after that post. This just proves my point. NO CHANGE will help if the is NO MODERATION.
Um, well....you may have been vehement, but I think I read somewhere that you can curse as much as you want as long as you are not cursing AT someone, aka trolling/flaming.
Personally, I would not like being warned for dropping the f-bomb here and there when I feel it needs dropping.
The problem seems to be with trying to organize a file repository (yes, I know there are no files actually here ) out of a forum. You don't get the options to find recently updated files while filtering out recent comments or vice-versa.
What you should really do is grab IP.Downloads and build a proper Downloads section. This can be customized to use the external download links provided by Authors, create a thread for each Texture Pack/Mod/etc., and give a proper interface for searching files.
I can partially understand what some of the users are saying here. However, here is what we are trying to accomplish:
1) Download section: New content will now have fair chance. If you want this thread to stay at the top, you will have to keep updating.
2) Comment section: People can freely discuss your thread here. Discussion on things they like/dislike, and possible changes.
If someone wants to see "popular" packs, they can go to the comment section. That will work exactly how it does now. The "Download" section will be new content is at the top, giving them fair chance to be seen. Honestly, if you look at it we are just adding a "what's new" section to the forums. This way, when you update your packs/add something new, it will be set in a slower section and does not need the replies to live and get fair viewing, but the comment section will feed off of the posts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
I can partially understand what some of the users are saying here. However, here is what we are trying to accomplish:
1) Download section: New content will now have fair chance. If you want this thread to stay at the top, you will have to keep updating.
2) Comment section: People can freely discuss your thread here. Discussion on things they like/dislike, and possible changes.
If someone wants to see "popular" packs, they can go to the comment section. That will work exactly how it does now. The "Download" section will be new content is at the top, giving them fair chance to be seen. Honestly, if you look at it we are just adding a "what's new" section to the forums. This way, when you update your packs/add something new, it will be set in a slower section and does not need the replies to live and get fair viewing, but the comment section will feed off of the posts.
are new people coming to the forums going to understand that if they are looking for texture packs? I doubt it. They will see a download section, and go straight there. I may not have updated for 3 weeks cause I like to polish my work and have it as quality, so they may miss out on my pack cause they had no idea it exists cause they didn't think to look at a comments section, cause 90% of my downloaders don't comment at all, they just download. I am worried that I am going to loose my user base if this happens and therefore lose new people that are going to offer feedback and critique on my work.
The current layout has less hassle. I doubt any of us want to manage multiple threads, managing one is difficult enough.
Also, think of the newcomers! Some of them can't even figure out how to post images, do you think they'd be able to figure out how to create and manage two threads? o___O
That's the point of A, if you don't want to see little whining kids, you don't post in the comment section and you can stay relaxed and manage a troll-free texture pack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't judge people by their usernames, grammar or comments.
I judge them by their avatars.
That's the point of A, if you don't want to see little whining kids, you don't post in the comment section and you can stay relaxed and manage a troll-free texture pack.
....
Have you ever made a mode or texture pack?
With solution A, not posting in the comments would be a death sentence for your work.
I say it again. You CANNOT just throw your work online and expect it to take off on it's own. It takes A LOT of promotional work to get the proper attention and by not have the comments thread no one would care at all about the work in question.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Look, I don't care if your 8 or 20. If you can't take criticism or opinions, then get off the internet." -Stronghold257
With solution A, not posting in the comments would be a death sentence for your work.
I say it again. You CANNOT just throw your work online and expect it to take off on it's own. It takes A LOT of promotional work to get the proper attention and by not have the comments thread no one would care at all about the work in question.
but now I have to promote my pack by doing 1 pixel updates to keep it in the public eye in the downloads section (where 90% of the casual user base will go to look for packs)
AND make sure I am getting and replying to comments in the comments section so my pack seems 'popular'
I vote 'b' although Tutorials and the content itself should be separate. It would keep things cleaner and let people have an easier time using search.
Maybe an explanation sticky thread using the current universal tag system (perhaps expanding it a bit too) and how to use the search engine to narrow down packs.
This would be a lot easier and keep things contained. I know I haven't been on here long and don't have the knowledge of past disgresions. However I figure at least throw an idea or two out there. Maybe someone might run with it
Personally, I think these proposed changes would not only harm the Texture Packs forum, but also the Modding forums. I can see it helping only the extremely large mods, such as the Aether, which have far too many comments to be humanly readable, but for smaller mods, having to make several threads could really put people off and confuse issues. Simple mods, without a lot of content will very quickly sink to the bottom of the forums, and only larger mods, with a lot of room for discussion, will actually be able to hold with the proposed layout.
This is my view, anyway. I vote we keep the texture pack layout, though putting everything that isn't a pack (such as tutorials and the like) in a new subforum may not be a bad idea.
The current and proposed structures are crap, a forum is not appropriate for downloads, users are stupid, forums are full of crap, the forum software is rubbish. Nuke it and start fresh.
Honestly. Using a (poor) tool for things it isn't really suited for is the cause for a lot of the problems here.
I think there should be a poll for the modding section as well, since they are up in arms about it as well (if there isn't one already).
I voted B. A just creates too many extra problems, stated several times over by many people here.
Also, we should however have a Tutorials/Help section for texture packs to help some of the clutter. We have a fair few threads asking about help with making a TP, so an extra subforum in the existing one for help or tutorials would be useful.
I can partially understand what some of the users are saying here. However, here is what we are trying to accomplish:
1) Download section: New content will now have fair chance. If you want this thread to stay at the top, you will have to keep updating.
2) Comment section: People can freely discuss your thread here. Discussion on things they like/dislike, and possible changes.
If someone wants to see "popular" packs, they can go to the comment section. That will work exactly how it does now. The "Download" section will be new content is at the top, giving them fair chance to be seen. Honestly, if you look at it we are just adding a "what's new" section to the forums. This way, when you update your packs/add something new, it will be set in a slower section and does not need the replies to live and get fair viewing, but the comment section will feed off of the posts.
Making a texturepack isnt about constant updates. Thats terrible, people pushing out half done updates that look like crap is NOT a solution to getting views. Xaiwaker has gone weeks wiyhout updating. With the new system we would never get any views. It shouldnt matter how fast packs update. I mean seriously, instead of arguing which way you think packs need to be viewed, just give us a damn filter that is easily noticed, and it able to be used how we want it (e.g relevant, useful filters) This arguing is starting to get prettty pointless when people are getting sidetracked by focusing on just one part on this, and forgetting the fact that us taxturepack artists will REALLY be affected, and this isnt a good way to give new packs a fighting chance, since they would only get more views for a few hours before they are buried under more constantly NEW packs. If people want to view it that way, im not stopping them, but please dont take our current system away as it seems to be working just fine.
To be clear, i am perfectly happy with giving these new packs a better chance at starting out. Bu setting a filter to default to newest, a new texturepack COULD catch someones eye, and work just as you are saying this update will. But people can also switch to the "whats hot" filter or whatever, and view the forums EXACTLY AS WE ARE NOW. Are you seeing what i mean? It really IS that simple. Why make someone switch forums, make texture artists make a WHOLE NEW THREAD, and make the overall navigation much more inefficient, when you can add a simple button that switches the organization for us?
I can partially understand what some of the users are saying here. However, here is what we are trying to accomplish:
1) Download section: New content will now have fair chance. If you want this thread to stay at the top, you will have to keep updating.
2) Comment section: People can freely discuss your thread here. Discussion on things they like/dislike, and possible changes.
If someone wants to see "popular" packs, they can go to the comment section. That will work exactly how it does now. The "Download" section will be new content is at the top, giving them fair chance to be seen. Honestly, if you look at it we are just adding a "what's new" section to the forums. This way, when you update your packs/add something new, it will be set in a slower section and does not need the replies to live and get fair viewing, but the comment section will feed off of the posts.
The problem being nobody wants to take care of an extra thread that has little to no redeemable value to them. You may as well split the forum into two, one section called "noobs" and the other called "popular". If this wasn't a forum, but a real texture pack repository, this wouldn't be a problem. But I like it as a forum. It builds community.
And if, somewhere in there, you guys are still worried about forum performance, how about you make it so that clicks on the topic only show the OP, with a "click for comments" button below the post. That way, people who download, download, and people who comment, skip that whole process anyway because they clicked on the latest post. And the people who maintain the forums see a whole lot less database access.
The biggest concern I have with the idea of a 'most recently updated' sorting is that it will be properly policed by the mods. Otherwise it's just going to be a bunch of "kids" bumping their packs with "I changed a pixel!" posts mixed in with dozens of "new" packs that only have three tiles done. If I go there to see new content, I want to see new content not old content that someone is bumping for the sake of popularity.
Additionally, I don't want to go to the new content section and find a bunch of WIP or otherwise unfinished stuff. So if you DO decide to go this route, take it one step further and separate out the WIP content from the actual completed packs. If I was a user looking for new packs, I wouldn't want a list of dozens of incomplete packs with the actually done ones several pages down because they aren't updated as often.
Which really, lets just put this out on the table. These forums are garbage for maintaining texture packs and no amount of reorganizing is going to fix that. This is through no fault of the people running the forums, they just are not designed for this kind of task. What you NEED is a new set of software that has these basic features:
preview images on the pack listing page.
special dedicated fields in the DB for MC version and resolution
some sort of hash tag like system for better sorting/labeling (#sci-fi #fantasy #pink)
sort by activity, recently updated, and popularity
Unfortunately that's a bit more effort than just playing with the forum settings. My personal suggestion is to make the rounds of the various sites out there that already provide those features for texture packs and see if you can't strike up a deal through Curse with one of them and pull them into the fold as it were.
TLDR: Trying to organize texture packs with a forum is like trying to pick tomatoes with a shotgun. It doesn't work very well and results in a big mess every time. Still if you are going to keep doing it this way, at least break out the WIP packs from the completed ones to make it a LOT easier on people looking for new packs to try out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
Why would anyone vote for A? That structure is inefficient from both ends....
The forums would be under a massive load by requiring a double for every TP avail., and there would be increased difficulty on the part of artists and users to keep track of both threads. I sincerely hope that those changes never occur.
I know that evencharmer and I made amends but really?!?
I should have at the very least had an increase in my warning status after that post. This just proves my point. NO CHANGE will help if the is NO MODERATION.
Um, well....you may have been vehement, but I think I read somewhere that you can curse as much as you want as long as you are not cursing AT someone, aka trolling/flaming.
Personally, I would not like being warned for dropping the f-bomb here and there when I feel it needs dropping.
PS: Homework is done. Mother.
Technically I did swear at him.
What you should really do is grab IP.Downloads and build a proper Downloads section. This can be customized to use the external download links provided by Authors, create a thread for each Texture Pack/Mod/etc., and give a proper interface for searching files.
1) Download section: New content will now have fair chance. If you want this thread to stay at the top, you will have to keep updating.
2) Comment section: People can freely discuss your thread here. Discussion on things they like/dislike, and possible changes.
If someone wants to see "popular" packs, they can go to the comment section. That will work exactly how it does now. The "Download" section will be new content is at the top, giving them fair chance to be seen. Honestly, if you look at it we are just adding a "what's new" section to the forums. This way, when you update your packs/add something new, it will be set in a slower section and does not need the replies to live and get fair viewing, but the comment section will feed off of the posts.
It's hard to follow your dreams when you run from your nightmares. --
are new people coming to the forums going to understand that if they are looking for texture packs? I doubt it. They will see a download section, and go straight there. I may not have updated for 3 weeks cause I like to polish my work and have it as quality, so they may miss out on my pack cause they had no idea it exists cause they didn't think to look at a comments section, cause 90% of my downloaders don't comment at all, they just download. I am worried that I am going to loose my user base if this happens and therefore lose new people that are going to offer feedback and critique on my work.
That's the point of A, if you don't want to see little whining kids, you don't post in the comment section and you can stay relaxed and manage a troll-free texture pack.
I judge them by their avatars.
....
Have you ever made a mode or texture pack?
With solution A, not posting in the comments would be a death sentence for your work.
I say it again. You CANNOT just throw your work online and expect it to take off on it's own. It takes A LOT of promotional work to get the proper attention and by not have the comments thread no one would care at all about the work in question.
but now I have to promote my pack by doing 1 pixel updates to keep it in the public eye in the downloads section (where 90% of the casual user base will go to look for packs)
AND make sure I am getting and replying to comments in the comments section so my pack seems 'popular'
I vote 'b' although Tutorials and the content itself should be separate. It would keep things cleaner and let people have an easier time using search.
Maybe an explanation sticky thread using the current universal tag system (perhaps expanding it a bit too) and how to use the search engine to narrow down packs.
This would be a lot easier and keep things contained. I know I haven't been on here long and don't have the knowledge of past disgresions. However I figure at least throw an idea or two out there. Maybe someone might run with it
edit - flaws in logic today...
This is my view, anyway. I vote we keep the texture pack layout, though putting everything that isn't a pack (such as tutorials and the like) in a new subforum may not be a bad idea.
I voted B. A just creates too many extra problems, stated several times over by many people here.
Also, we should however have a Tutorials/Help section for texture packs to help some of the clutter. We have a fair few threads asking about help with making a TP, so an extra subforum in the existing one for help or tutorials would be useful.
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Making a texturepack isnt about constant updates. Thats terrible, people pushing out half done updates that look like crap is NOT a solution to getting views. Xaiwaker has gone weeks wiyhout updating. With the new system we would never get any views. It shouldnt matter how fast packs update. I mean seriously, instead of arguing which way you think packs need to be viewed, just give us a damn filter that is easily noticed, and it able to be used how we want it (e.g relevant, useful filters) This arguing is starting to get prettty pointless when people are getting sidetracked by focusing on just one part on this, and forgetting the fact that us taxturepack artists will REALLY be affected, and this isnt a good way to give new packs a fighting chance, since they would only get more views for a few hours before they are buried under more constantly NEW packs. If people want to view it that way, im not stopping them, but please dont take our current system away as it seems to be working just fine.
To be clear, i am perfectly happy with giving these new packs a better chance at starting out. Bu setting a filter to default to newest, a new texturepack COULD catch someones eye, and work just as you are saying this update will. But people can also switch to the "whats hot" filter or whatever, and view the forums EXACTLY AS WE ARE NOW. Are you seeing what i mean? It really IS that simple. Why make someone switch forums, make texture artists make a WHOLE NEW THREAD, and make the overall navigation much more inefficient, when you can add a simple button that switches the organization for us?
I hope im getting my point across.
...Filters.
The problem being nobody wants to take care of an extra thread that has little to no redeemable value to them. You may as well split the forum into two, one section called "noobs" and the other called "popular". If this wasn't a forum, but a real texture pack repository, this wouldn't be a problem. But I like it as a forum. It builds community.
And if, somewhere in there, you guys are still worried about forum performance, how about you make it so that clicks on the topic only show the OP, with a "click for comments" button below the post. That way, people who download, download, and people who comment, skip that whole process anyway because they clicked on the latest post. And the people who maintain the forums see a whole lot less database access.
Additionally, I don't want to go to the new content section and find a bunch of WIP or otherwise unfinished stuff. So if you DO decide to go this route, take it one step further and separate out the WIP content from the actual completed packs. If I was a user looking for new packs, I wouldn't want a list of dozens of incomplete packs with the actually done ones several pages down because they aren't updated as often.
Which really, lets just put this out on the table. These forums are garbage for maintaining texture packs and no amount of reorganizing is going to fix that. This is through no fault of the people running the forums, they just are not designed for this kind of task. What you NEED is a new set of software that has these basic features:
Unfortunately that's a bit more effort than just playing with the forum settings. My personal suggestion is to make the rounds of the various sites out there that already provide those features for texture packs and see if you can't strike up a deal through Curse with one of them and pull them into the fold as it were.
TLDR: Trying to organize texture packs with a forum is like trying to pick tomatoes with a shotgun. It doesn't work very well and results in a big mess every time. Still if you are going to keep doing it this way, at least break out the WIP packs from the completed ones to make it a LOT easier on people looking for new packs to try out.
The forums would be under a massive load by requiring a double for every TP avail., and there would be increased difficulty on the part of artists and users to keep track of both threads. I sincerely hope that those changes never occur.
Also, what will happen to the old threads if option a is chosen?
Will they be deleted or reformatted for the comments section?
Yo, Citric. How long are we gonna be pending decision?
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