I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I never claimed that stone, in reality, was pure grey, which seems to be what you're getting out of this. If you want to argue that point, you can find and quote where I said that. But, as a texture pack for a mining game set in an alien world, it doesn't have to be perfectly lifelike, and to be honest, grey looks just as good as anything. So it seems you've spend unnecessarily long on Google Images to no avail.
So it seems you've spend unnecessarily long on Google Images to no avail.
Less than 30 seconds.
My point is that he's obviously going for a realistic style, and pure grey doesn't reflect that very well.
Aside from that, it's commonly good practice in artwork to avoid "pure" colours. Full saturation, no saturation, black and white are avoided in most forms of art, and for a good reason. Fully saturated colours are painful on the eye, and you can get the effect of a bright colour without it. Colours with no saturation, or greys, are avoided because they seem lifeless. They have no character. Even something as basic as stone or earth needs character, otherwise the scenery will seem boring. You have no idea the difference a bit of colour makes. Black is avoided because it eats colours. One pixel of black takes up the attention far more than any other colour, and thus makes things look messy. White can be used, but often a better effect is gained from using an off-white in a tint.
I've spent a lot of my time learning about the use of colour from the time I spent making sprites a few years ago. I know how to use colour effectively.
Besides, this is off-topic now. Let's get back onto the discussion this thread was made for.
You have no idea the difference a bit of colour makes.
Several years pixel artist. I think I know. Avoiding the ends of the spectrum can be good for some kinds of art, but if everything fit your ideals, then the world would look like ****. A lot of the time, things like pure black, pure white, full saturation, etc. are needed to drive home a point in the artwork where it oftentimes cannot be achieved another way. Or maybe you just only like one style of art. I may never know.
Several years pixel artist. I think I know. Avoiding the ends of the spectrum can be good for some kinds of art, but if everything fit your ideals, then the world would look like ****. A lot of the time, things like pure black, pure white, full saturation, etc. are needed to drive home a point in the artwork where it oftentimes cannot be achieved another way. Or maybe you just only like one style of art. I may never know.
you know, i saw people who make hats and pants for habbo hotel claiming they are pixel artists for several years. this is not going to make your opinion any better. The defaultpack being graphically awful is not an opinion, and any artist can confirm this.
it is pretty obvious, and almost a fact, that pure grayscale, in a minecraft texture, looks bad.
jesus christ, just do it yourself if you are so sure about it: make a quick cobblestone texture ('several years pixel artist'... should be easy for you) and make it pure greyscale.
after that, add a slight hue of any color.
compare pictures and tell me you still think grayscale is acceptable for any texture.
Read within the spoiler below "RANT". This is a very talented real-world artist who does this stuff for a living. He knows what he's talking about. Listen to him. The whole misconception that black is not to be used in art just comes from under-qualified art teachers who misinterpret the idea that black is to be used sparsely. All it means is that when you do use it, it pops that much more.
Now, in tiling pixel art, it's different. Otherwise wonderful contrast can be very bad when it dismantles the illusion we're all trying to accomplish: seamless, cohesive tiling. But the idea that it's to be avoided outright in all forms of art? That's simply incorrect.
you know, i saw people who make hats and pants for habbo hotel claiming they are pixel artists for several years. this is not going to make your opinion any better. The defaultpack being graphically awful is not an opinion, and any artist can confirm this.
it is pretty obvious, and almost a fact, that pure grayscale, in a minecraft texture, looks bad.
jesus christ, just do it yourself if you are so sure about it: make a quick cobblestone texture ('several years pixel artist'... should be easy for you) and make it pure greyscale.
after that, add a slight hue of any color.
compare pictures and tell me you still think grayscale is acceptable for any texture.
Calm down, bro. Take a chill pill. Sheesh. Okay, so you don't like the default textures. I can understand that, we all have our own tastes, and are entitled to our own opinions. And I understand that saying anything good about the default textures on the texture pack subforum, where all the people who hate the default textures go, is probably as close to a death wish as you can get. But, you did not need to blow your top. You wanted a hue in the cobblestone, I thought it was fine as it was, and it escalated into this. I'm sorry for any part I might have played in that. I must say, the maturity level in here is discouraging. Just... slim it.
Never said it was completely to be avoided, the problem here was the GRAYSCALE. Textures without the slightest hue of any color just dont look as good as with a hue.
On the topic of 'dont use black' im aware you can use black, but sparsely. you might agree that the use of black in the new cobblestonetexture is a bit too much.
Calm down, bro. Take a chill pill. Sheesh. Okay, so you don't like the default textures. I can understand that, we all have our own tastes, and are entitled to our own opinions. And I understand that saying anything good about the default textures on the texture pack subforum, where all the people who hate the default textures go, is probably as close to a death wish as you can get. But, you did not need to blow your top. You wanted a hue in the cobblestone, I thought it was fine as it was, and it escalated into this. I'm sorry for any part I might have played in that. I must say, the maturity level in here is discouraging. Just... slim it.
calmer than you are.
Read my post again. I did not solely say 'DEFAULT TEXTURES SUCK'. Thanks for ignoring everything I said and saying I overreacted, and im immature instead.
Thanks for proving ad hominem is not just to achieve with blunt insults.
Never said it was completely to be avoided, the problem here was the GRAYSCALE. Textures without the slightest hue of any color just dont look as good as with a hue.
On the topic of 'dont use black' im aware you can use black, but sparsely. you might agree that the use of black in the new cobblestonetexture is a bit too much.
Usually, when "black" is used in artwork, it is not hex black (#000000), but something close to it. The difference is startling. For example, Minecraft's default textures use #030303, not #000000. That is still a little close for my taste, but it gets my point across.
The difference is startling? That's simply not true. The difference is almost indistinguishable:
My point stands: black can be used in art. Perhaps texture packs are not the best place for solid black, but I'm sure if the right person did it, it could look fantastic.
That took me 5 minutes in MS Paint. It's an avatar from when I was making a point about wolves just after 1.4 was released. If it really means that much to you, I could redo it.
My point stands: black can be used in art. Perhaps texture packs are not the best place for solid black, but I'm sure if the right person did it, it could look fantastic.
Correct. If the right person did it. It takes a lot of skill to use black effectively, and I'll be the first to admit that I don't have that skill.
I used Minecraft as an example to show that pure black is not used most of the time, but, as I said, it is still too close for comfort in my opinion. A good example, and one that people often believe does use pure black, are Pokemon sprites. In particular, some of the older ones. They use a deep grey colour (not perfect grey, by the way) instead of black, and it does look different.
This is besides the point. We've successfully hijacked this poor guy's thread and made it descend into pointless bickering. Let us move on from this.
I suggested that a few posts ago. Good to see we can agree on something for once.
Also, I was on a laptop. MS Paint was the only thing I had available without taking more than a few minutes.
In other news, OP seems to be trying at a cobblestone texture and instead making textures that would be great for something else. Anyone else notice that?
I'm thinking maybe the bricks one, but not as dark?
I suggested that a few posts ago. Good to see we can agree on something for once.
Also, I was on a laptop. MS Paint was the only thing I had available without taking more than a few minutes.
In other news, OP seems to be trying at a cobblestone texture and instead making textures that would be great for something else. Anyone else notice that?
I'm thinking maybe the bricks one, but not as dark?
hahaha, excuse after excuse.
I still believe you are no 'pixel artist for several years'.
a pixel artist wouldve figured out how to upload pictures in those several years, but you just found out today.
sorry, but if you are trying to discuss something, dont backup your pointless assumptions with lies. Stay civil like everyone else does.
sorry to be off topic, but be honest.
hahaha, excuse after excuse.
I still believe you are no 'pixel artist for several years'.
a pixel artist wouldve figured out how to upload pictures in those several years, but you just found out today.
sorry, but if you are trying to discuss something, dont backup your pointless assumptions with lies. Stay civil like everyone else does.
sorry to be off topic, but be honest.
I've uploaded pictures before, but not on a forum like this. As much as you're eager to hate me, I'm going to do my best to respect you. Kay?
Actually, now that I think about it, brick textures for cobblestone usually don't work out too well in my opinion. There are a few that are good. But it usually looks best when cobblestone looks like, well, cobblestone. Or maybe some slightly deformed-looking bricks. Dunno.
I like the brick look for cobblestone, personally. I've gone through dozens of packs and when I'm trying out a pack that uses circles/ovals for cobblestone, it really turns me off. The cobble is basically only useful for paving roads (which seems appropriate, I suppose) and building any sort of structure with circular cobblestone looks...awkward.
Both are completely valid, but I prefer bricks just because I feel like I'm extending the use of cobble outside of road-paving material.
As far as your latest screenshot goes, I will have to agree that the black looks...too black. I suggest toning it down to a very dark grey, or if you're really attached to the black - darkening everything else to a darker grey. The problem looks to me that your stone is a somewhat lightish grey, while the shadows are black enough to be an outline instead of a shadow. Make the two closer together in darkness/lightness, and you'll be set. :smile.gif:
Again, all feedback is well appreciated (not to mention Natek7's re-railing skills...) and thus, to follow your suggestions, I have made yet another model (i'll get it eventually)!
I rest mine with this:
As you can see, each of this is a photograph of stone.
Now, point to me any with purely grey colour.
Grey does not work well at the best of times, but when aiming for realism, it is positively appalling.
Less than 30 seconds.
My point is that he's obviously going for a realistic style, and pure grey doesn't reflect that very well.
Aside from that, it's commonly good practice in artwork to avoid "pure" colours. Full saturation, no saturation, black and white are avoided in most forms of art, and for a good reason. Fully saturated colours are painful on the eye, and you can get the effect of a bright colour without it. Colours with no saturation, or greys, are avoided because they seem lifeless. They have no character. Even something as basic as stone or earth needs character, otherwise the scenery will seem boring. You have no idea the difference a bit of colour makes. Black is avoided because it eats colours. One pixel of black takes up the attention far more than any other colour, and thus makes things look messy. White can be used, but often a better effect is gained from using an off-white in a tint.
I've spent a lot of my time learning about the use of colour from the time I spent making sprites a few years ago. I know how to use colour effectively.
Besides, this is off-topic now. Let's get back onto the discussion this thread was made for.
Several years pixel artist. I think I know. Avoiding the ends of the spectrum can be good for some kinds of art, but if everything fit your ideals, then the world would look like ****. A lot of the time, things like pure black, pure white, full saturation, etc. are needed to drive home a point in the artwork where it oftentimes cannot be achieved another way. Or maybe you just only like one style of art. I may never know.
you know, i saw people who make hats and pants for habbo hotel claiming they are pixel artists for several years. this is not going to make your opinion any better. The defaultpack being graphically awful is not an opinion, and any artist can confirm this.
it is pretty obvious, and almost a fact, that pure grayscale, in a minecraft texture, looks bad.
jesus christ, just do it yourself if you are so sure about it: make a quick cobblestone texture ('several years pixel artist'... should be easy for you) and make it pure greyscale.
after that, add a slight hue of any color.
compare pictures and tell me you still think grayscale is acceptable for any texture.
(salty language contained herein) http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=10234569&postcount=1349
in reference to this discussion: http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=10233328#post10233328
Read within the spoiler below "RANT". This is a very talented real-world artist who does this stuff for a living. He knows what he's talking about. Listen to him. The whole misconception that black is not to be used in art just comes from under-qualified art teachers who misinterpret the idea that black is to be used sparsely. All it means is that when you do use it, it pops that much more.
Now, in tiling pixel art, it's different. Otherwise wonderful contrast can be very bad when it dismantles the illusion we're all trying to accomplish: seamless, cohesive tiling. But the idea that it's to be avoided outright in all forms of art? That's simply incorrect.
Calm down, bro. Take a chill pill. Sheesh. Okay, so you don't like the default textures. I can understand that, we all have our own tastes, and are entitled to our own opinions. And I understand that saying anything good about the default textures on the texture pack subforum, where all the people who hate the default textures go, is probably as close to a death wish as you can get. But, you did not need to blow your top. You wanted a hue in the cobblestone, I thought it was fine as it was, and it escalated into this. I'm sorry for any part I might have played in that. I must say, the maturity level in here is discouraging. Just... slim it.
On the topic of 'dont use black' im aware you can use black, but sparsely. you might agree that the use of black in the new cobblestonetexture is a bit too much.
calmer than you are.
Read my post again. I did not solely say 'DEFAULT TEXTURES SUCK'. Thanks for ignoring everything I said and saying I overreacted, and im immature instead.
Thanks for proving ad hominem is not just to achieve with blunt insults.
Usually, when "black" is used in artwork, it is not hex black (#000000), but something close to it. The difference is startling. For example, Minecraft's default textures use #030303, not #000000. That is still a little close for my taste, but it gets my point across.
My point stands: black can be used in art. Perhaps texture packs are not the best place for solid black, but I'm sure if the right person did it, it could look fantastic.
That took me 5 minutes in MS Paint. It's an avatar from when I was making a point about wolves just after 1.4 was released. If it really means that much to you, I could redo it.
Correct. If the right person did it. It takes a lot of skill to use black effectively, and I'll be the first to admit that I don't have that skill.
I used Minecraft as an example to show that pure black is not used most of the time, but, as I said, it is still too close for comfort in my opinion. A good example, and one that people often believe does use pure black, are Pokemon sprites. In particular, some of the older ones. They use a deep grey colour (not perfect grey, by the way) instead of black, and it does look different.
This is besides the point. We've successfully hijacked this poor guy's thread and made it descend into pointless bickering. Let us move on from this.
I suggested that a few posts ago. Good to see we can agree on something for once.
Also, I was on a laptop. MS Paint was the only thing I had available without taking more than a few minutes.
In other news, OP seems to be trying at a cobblestone texture and instead making textures that would be great for something else. Anyone else notice that?
I'm thinking maybe the bricks one, but not as dark?
hahaha, excuse after excuse.
I still believe you are no 'pixel artist for several years'.
a pixel artist wouldve figured out how to upload pictures in those several years, but you just found out today.
sorry, but if you are trying to discuss something, dont backup your pointless assumptions with lies. Stay civil like everyone else does.
sorry to be off topic, but be honest.
I've uploaded pictures before, but not on a forum like this. As much as you're eager to hate me, I'm going to do my best to respect you. Kay?
Actually, now that I think about it, brick textures for cobblestone usually don't work out too well in my opinion. There are a few that are good. But it usually looks best when cobblestone looks like, well, cobblestone. Or maybe some slightly deformed-looking bricks. Dunno.
Both are completely valid, but I prefer bricks just because I feel like I'm extending the use of cobble outside of road-paving material.
As far as your latest screenshot goes, I will have to agree that the black looks...too black. I suggest toning it down to a very dark grey, or if you're really attached to the black - darkening everything else to a darker grey. The problem looks to me that your stone is a somewhat lightish grey, while the shadows are black enough to be an outline instead of a shadow. Make the two closer together in darkness/lightness, and you'll be set. :smile.gif:
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