Oh, the nuisances of copyright :tongue.gif:. Kudos for not going crazy about it like who knows how many others would have, Glimmar :biggrin.gif:. Still, if it's hard to trace the origin; then i can understand why Koolwitak did what he did. Nobody's perfect... although he probably could have said something like "original origin unknown".
Oh btw... you should probably take it as a compliment that Koolwitak used your texture in preference to all the others.
Considering Koolwitak won't even pirate Adobe Creative Suite 5 I can't see him trying to pass off work that isn't his own. I highly doubt anything malicious would even be in his nature. He had no idea where it came from till now and had forgotten to include a notice saying otherwise.
Considering Koolwitak won't even pirate Adobe Creative Suite 5 I can't see him trying to pass off work that isn't his own. I highly doubt anything malicious would even be in his nature. He had no idea where it came from till now and had forgotten to include a notice saying otherwise.
I appreciate your loyalty, mate, but not knowing where something came from is not an excuse for using it. He consciously edited and used something of mine without asking and made a title feature out of it to boot! If you don't know where something has come from...don't use it...simple as. If you don't make it clear that the work you are introducing as 'New Biomes' is not your own, then you are passing it off as your own work! I don't wish to be preachy on this subject, but lets just get the facts straight here. :smile.gif:
I may add also, as the frightening word of copyright has reared it's head in the post above yours, whether some find copyright a nuisance or not, it is there to protect the hard work of those creating something original from those who would try to profit from it. I don't ask for donations in my thread, Koolwitak is, and by using the work of others too: that's a fairly dicey situation to be in legally. The forum rules are very specific on this subject and I have been pretty patient in not reporting this to a moderator, especially as there are other components of my textures floating about in his pack too which have not been credited to me either (my old foliagecolor.png file, my old tall 'Wild Grass' texture, and my 'yellow flower' fern with some flowers stuck on in the WIld Grass position on his terrain.png). Those things I let pass because I am no longer using them, but at no stage was I asked about those textures either! :smile.gif:
No-one is suggesting he is being malicious, but he is being a little less than honest when you suggest he forgot or didn't mean to do something.
Now this is taking us away from the serious business of enjoying Minecraft and I don't want to stop Koolwitak from giving you folk what you want, but it has to be done right and I will do what is necessary to defend my own work.
I think there is a difference between absent mindedness and knowingly ripping someone else's work off even if the outcome is the same. Motivation though for him doing it in the first place is what should be looked at. He did apologize and give you credit after finding out that it was yours. I don't think it was just an attempt at him saving face either. I agree, I think he should get in the habit of only using stuff he's either made or has gotten permission for while not throwing in things into the shitpot which he has no idea the source of. Even if listing they weren't his he still wouldn't of had permission to use them in the first place, even as place holders.
Donations though, that's opening a whole other (valid) debate. Is he making money off of everything in the pack or is he getting money to support his own work within the pack? I don't think the donations are for the pack as a whole. In that sense he's not selling anyone's work. In the same sense a music composer would list a game as having his work but not saying he's created every sound in the game.
Considering Koolwitak won't even pirate Adobe Creative Suite 5 I can't see him trying to pass off work that isn't his own. I highly doubt anything malicious would even be in his nature. He had no idea where it came from till now and had forgotten to include a notice saying otherwise.
I appreciate your loyalty, mate, but not knowing where something came from is not an excuse for using it. He consciously edited and used something of mine without asking and made a title feature out of it to boot! If you don't know where something has come from...don't use it...simple as. If you don't make it clear that the work you are introducing as 'New Biomes' is not your own, then you are passing it off as your own work! I don't wish to be preachy on this subject, but lets just get the facts straight here. :smile.gif:
I may add also, as the frightening word of copyright has reared it's head in the post above yours, whether some find copyright a nuisance or not, it is there to protect the hard work of those creating something original from those who would try to profit from it. I don't ask for donations in my thread, Koolwitak is, and by using the work of others too: that's a fairly dicey situation to be in legally. The forum rules are very specific on this subject and I have been pretty patient in not reporting this to a moderator, especially as there are other components of my textures floating about in his pack too which have not been credited to me either (my old foliagecolor.png file, my old tall 'Wild Grass' texture, and my 'yellow flower' fern with some flowers stuck on in the WIld Grass position on his terrain.png). Those things I let pass because I am no longer using them, but at no stage was I asked about those textures either! :smile.gif:
No-one is suggesting he is being malicious, but he is being a little less than honest when you suggest he forgot or didn't mean to do something.
Now this is taking us away from the serious business of enjoying Minecraft and I don't want to stop Koolwitak from giving you folk what you want, but it has to be done right and I will do what is necessary to defend my own work.
Could you take a look at my pack, HDCraft, and see if any of your work is there? If it is, please tell me so i can credit you for it.
I have a custom compilation I use when I play, but I would not ever share it because I've collected images from so many sources and changed it so often that I know I would not be able to properly attribute each artist.
Not to mention, I don't really feel like I've "created" anything so it's not my right to share it. I'd rather encourage people to find the things they like and do as I have - make something for personal use only.
That said, I think the proper thing to do would be for Koolwitak to review his pack right now, make sure that everything is either original or properly credited and used with permission, remove all files that do not meet those criteria and replace this release with a new version. That should be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
That said, I think the proper thing to do would be for Koolwitak to review his pack right now, make sure that everything is either original or properly credited and used with permission, remove all files that do not meet those criteria and replace this release with a new version. That should be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.
Agreed. Or even gradually consider making everything himself.
This makes me wonder how many other texture packs are floating around with uncredited material.
All these legal complications are giving me gray hairs!
Personally, I hate it when people steal others' work without asking. This time I was just in a rush to get the next version out (as many of you know) because I was away for two days and felt guilty about not releasing it on time.
Honestly I just want this to be done and over with. I thought people would like that new biome, but it ended up causing me more trouble than it was worth. The LAST thing I want is for people to start turning against me because I made a simple mistake that won't even matter a few days from now.
By monday night I will probably have released Version 31, and none of this will even matter anymore.
Quote from Veeshush »
Agreed. Or even gradually consider making everything himself.
That's what I've been doing this whole time. I used a mix of textures as a base and gradually re-made all of them.
Don't get me wrong, friend. I'm on your side. I hope you don't feel I've turned on you. Just wanted to suggest a way that would satisfy Glimmar and keep this sort of thing from coming up in the future.
It's a nice looking biome that he made - I can see why he's proud of it and wants to protect it. I also know that he's been willing to share his work with proper permission and credit. You've apologized for the misunderstanding, perhaps simply formally asking for permission to continue to use his work while you update yours would suffice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
It's a nice looking biome that he made - I can see why he's proud of it and wants to protect it. I also know that he's been willing to share his work with proper permission and credit. You've apologized for the misunderstanding, perhaps simply formally asking for permission to continue to use his work while you update yours would suffice.
I can't now... It's a pride thing... I need to fix my mistakes with actions, not just words!
That's commendable (and more than most would be prepared to do) - but aside from pulling version 30 until you can do so, I still think that actually requesting permission for the interim is the right thing to do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
That's what I've been doing this whole time. I used a mix of textures as a base and gradually re-made all of them.
Not leaving them in as a base and only putting in your finished work I mean. He claimed there was more:
especially as there are other components of my textures floating about in his pack too which have not been credited to me either (my old foliagecolor.png file, my old tall 'Wild Grass' texture, and my 'yellow flower' fern with some flowers stuck on in the WIld Grass position on his terrain.png). Those things I let pass because I am no longer using them, but at no stage was I asked about those textures either! :smile.gif:
Basically I'm in the same boat as HeadHunter67. Just trying to find a way for you to avoid all of this crap later on.
Why do people look for updated texture packs, but never think to look for a new version of the utility that lets them use the packs in the first place?
If you still get an error, then it may be a mod conflict or something was installed improperly. Sadly, we cannot assist you with that in this thread.
@Koolwitak: I noticed that the link in your original post still points to the old patcher; you may want to update that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
Whoever goes by the name "Steven Vance", you should post your username here (or in a PM) so I can put it at the top of my original post for making a large donation! Unless you don't want credit for it, then just say so.
Quote from HeadHunter67 »
@Koolwitak: I noticed that the link in your original post still points to the old patcher; you may want to update that.
All these legal complications are giving me gray hairs!
Personally, I hate it when people steal others' work without asking. This time I was just in a rush to get the next version out (as many of you know) because I was away for two days and felt guilty about not releasing it on time.
Honestly I just want this to be done and over with. I thought people would like that new biome, but it ended up causing me more trouble than it was worth. The LAST thing I want is for people to start turning against me because I made a simple mistake that won't even matter a few days from now.
By monday night I will probably have released Version 31, and none of this will even matter anymore.
Quote from Veeshush »
Agreed. Or even gradually consider making everything himself.
That's what I've been doing this whole time. I used a mix of textures as a base and gradually re-made all of them.
Kool and everyone, this is a storm in a teacup and as you mention...it will be forgotten in a few days. I certainly hope it will be.
All texture artists get frought around update time and I'm just like anyone else and I know exactly the feeling of trying to get stuff out for folk. It is not in my nature, honestly to be vindictive and if anyone thinks I took this way too seriously you're probably right. Some of the replies in support, after your accepted apology Kool, made me see red, and with the benefit of hindsight this should have been dealt with privately, but as you know I had already done that before. Like I say, we all get grey hairs (except mine are real!) around this time, trying to get new stuff out for everyone to enjoy, so I well understand the situation from your point of view.
No way do I want you or anyone else to feel bad about this, this is a game and it's not worth losing sleep over, but after literally spending days on getting my biome triangles to work (Lol! I can't believe we're arguing over a couple of flipping coloured triangles!) I was feeling a little snubbed for one of them to be used without credit. I only ask for people to understand how that might have felt to them if they'd been in my shoes.
So long as folk are clear on who did the work, I'm happy for anyone to use my stuff. Minecraft is pretty unique in the way it fires our imagination and we fling ideas and bits of graphics all over the place and sometimes we forget that these bits of things are someone's pride and joy.
I wish you all the best Kool and my reply at the top of this page was in the heat of the moment after very little sleep, so I understand if you do change things, but from my point of view it's not necessary with proper credit. At least take your time and don't feel under pressure to change...you've given a lot of folk a great deal of fun for a long time and I wouldn't want them to be disappointed having to install things all over again after a few days.
I made my point, probably not in the best way possible, but only because I do take pride in what I do and so far I'm relieved this has not descended into any kind of flame war. I don't bear any kind of grudge and hope you won't either. I also apologise now if this comes across as condescending...it's certainly not intended to be.
Some of the replies in support, after your accepted apology Kool, made me see red
I hope I didn't anger you, and I apologize if I offended in any way. I admire both of you and the work that you do for the Minecraft community.
I just wanted to make sure everyone was going to be cool with one another when all was said and done, and I'm glad to see that it seems to be that way.
What I like about the Texture Pack forum is it's less inclined to flaming than the Beta Discussion section. People here are generally more agreeable and willing to help, and even the people who don't bother to follow instructions or read the topics don't usually get blasted, though sometimes they may so richly deserve it. :smile.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
So with the new update whenever I place or destroy a block the game just crashes, anyway to fix that? I do not want to use the default texture pack. (I don't know how Notch is making money of this.)
OK, I'm going to direct you to my reply a few posts above yours. Please at least make a little effort to find a solution before asking the same question yet again.
Notch isn't making any money off texture packs - but he's graciously enabled the means to use them. You just have to be willing to do a little reading and follow some simple and very clear instructions. There's honestly no excuse for asking for a solution to an issue when you show you can't be bothered to read the answers that are being given.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Don't know why you should feel that there's something to learn... it's just a game that you play."
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Oh btw... you should probably take it as a compliment that Koolwitak used your texture in preference to all the others.
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Curse PremiumI appreciate your loyalty, mate, but not knowing where something came from is not an excuse for using it. He consciously edited and used something of mine without asking and made a title feature out of it to boot! If you don't know where something has come from...don't use it...simple as. If you don't make it clear that the work you are introducing as 'New Biomes' is not your own, then you are passing it off as your own work! I don't wish to be preachy on this subject, but lets just get the facts straight here. :smile.gif:
I may add also, as the frightening word of copyright has reared it's head in the post above yours, whether some find copyright a nuisance or not, it is there to protect the hard work of those creating something original from those who would try to profit from it. I don't ask for donations in my thread, Koolwitak is, and by using the work of others too: that's a fairly dicey situation to be in legally. The forum rules are very specific on this subject and I have been pretty patient in not reporting this to a moderator, especially as there are other components of my textures floating about in his pack too which have not been credited to me either (my old foliagecolor.png file, my old tall 'Wild Grass' texture, and my 'yellow flower' fern with some flowers stuck on in the WIld Grass position on his terrain.png). Those things I let pass because I am no longer using them, but at no stage was I asked about those textures either! :smile.gif:
No-one is suggesting he is being malicious, but he is being a little less than honest when you suggest he forgot or didn't mean to do something.
Now this is taking us away from the serious business of enjoying Minecraft and I don't want to stop Koolwitak from giving you folk what you want, but it has to be done right and I will do what is necessary to defend my own work.
Donations though, that's opening a whole other (valid) debate. Is he making money off of everything in the pack or is he getting money to support his own work within the pack? I don't think the donations are for the pack as a whole. In that sense he's not selling anyone's work. In the same sense a music composer would list a game as having his work but not saying he's created every sound in the game.
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Curse PremiumCould you take a look at my pack, HDCraft, and see if any of your work is there? If it is, please tell me so i can credit you for it.
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Retired StaffHow could you not know..as the creator of your pack...whether you have some one elses work in it? And who's it is?
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Curse PremiumBecause i took parts from Mixcraft, and now Glimmar is saying HE owns some textures in it.
Not to mention, I don't really feel like I've "created" anything so it's not my right to share it. I'd rather encourage people to find the things they like and do as I have - make something for personal use only.
That said, I think the proper thing to do would be for Koolwitak to review his pack right now, make sure that everything is either original or properly credited and used with permission, remove all files that do not meet those criteria and replace this release with a new version. That should be a satisfactory resolution for all parties involved.
Agreed. Or even gradually consider making everything himself.
This makes me wonder how many other texture packs are floating around with uncredited material.
Personally, I hate it when people steal others' work without asking. This time I was just in a rush to get the next version out (as many of you know) because I was away for two days and felt guilty about not releasing it on time.
Honestly I just want this to be done and over with. I thought people would like that new biome, but it ended up causing me more trouble than it was worth. The LAST thing I want is for people to start turning against me because I made a simple mistake that won't even matter a few days from now.
By monday night I will probably have released Version 31, and none of this will even matter anymore.
That's what I've been doing this whole time. I used a mix of textures as a base and gradually re-made all of them.
It's a nice looking biome that he made - I can see why he's proud of it and wants to protect it. I also know that he's been willing to share his work with proper permission and credit. You've apologized for the misunderstanding, perhaps simply formally asking for permission to continue to use his work while you update yours would suffice.
I can't now... It's a pride thing... I need to fix my mistakes with actions, not just words!
Not leaving them in as a base and only putting in your finished work I mean. He claimed there was more:
Basically I'm in the same boat as HeadHunter67. Just trying to find a way for you to avoid all of this crap later on.
Texture Packs only change how the game looks, not how it works.
You simply need to use the up-to-date version of the HD texture patcher:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1021&t=252531
Why do people look for updated texture packs, but never think to look for a new version of the utility that lets them use the packs in the first place?
If you still get an error, then it may be a mod conflict or something was installed improperly. Sadly, we cannot assist you with that in this thread.
@Koolwitak: I noticed that the link in your original post still points to the old patcher; you may want to update that.
Thanks for pointing that out!
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Curse PremiumKool and everyone, this is a storm in a teacup and as you mention...it will be forgotten in a few days. I certainly hope it will be.
All texture artists get frought around update time and I'm just like anyone else and I know exactly the feeling of trying to get stuff out for folk. It is not in my nature, honestly to be vindictive and if anyone thinks I took this way too seriously you're probably right. Some of the replies in support, after your accepted apology Kool, made me see red, and with the benefit of hindsight this should have been dealt with privately, but as you know I had already done that before. Like I say, we all get grey hairs (except mine are real!) around this time, trying to get new stuff out for everyone to enjoy, so I well understand the situation from your point of view.
No way do I want you or anyone else to feel bad about this, this is a game and it's not worth losing sleep over, but after literally spending days on getting my biome triangles to work (Lol! I can't believe we're arguing over a couple of flipping coloured triangles!) I was feeling a little snubbed for one of them to be used without credit. I only ask for people to understand how that might have felt to them if they'd been in my shoes.
So long as folk are clear on who did the work, I'm happy for anyone to use my stuff. Minecraft is pretty unique in the way it fires our imagination and we fling ideas and bits of graphics all over the place and sometimes we forget that these bits of things are someone's pride and joy.
I wish you all the best Kool and my reply at the top of this page was in the heat of the moment after very little sleep, so I understand if you do change things, but from my point of view it's not necessary with proper credit. At least take your time and don't feel under pressure to change...you've given a lot of folk a great deal of fun for a long time and I wouldn't want them to be disappointed having to install things all over again after a few days.
I made my point, probably not in the best way possible, but only because I do take pride in what I do and so far I'm relieved this has not descended into any kind of flame war. I don't bear any kind of grudge and hope you won't either. I also apologise now if this comes across as condescending...it's certainly not intended to be.
Glimmar
I hope I didn't anger you, and I apologize if I offended in any way. I admire both of you and the work that you do for the Minecraft community.
I just wanted to make sure everyone was going to be cool with one another when all was said and done, and I'm glad to see that it seems to be that way.
What I like about the Texture Pack forum is it's less inclined to flaming than the Beta Discussion section. People here are generally more agreeable and willing to help, and even the people who don't bother to follow instructions or read the topics don't usually get blasted, though sometimes they may so richly deserve it. :smile.gif:
OK, I'm going to direct you to my reply a few posts above yours. Please at least make a little effort to find a solution before asking the same question yet again.
Notch isn't making any money off texture packs - but he's graciously enabled the means to use them. You just have to be willing to do a little reading and follow some simple and very clear instructions. There's honestly no excuse for asking for a solution to an issue when you show you can't be bothered to read the answers that are being given.