White coats to bind me, out of control
I live alone inside my mind
World of confusion, air filled with noise
Who says that my life's such a crime?
Trapped in this nightmare
I wish I'd wake
As my whole life begins to shake
four walls surround me
an empty gaze
I can't find my way out of this maze
'Cause I don't care
Fall in, fall out
Gone without a doubt, help me
I can't take the blame
They don't feel the shame
It's a madhouse
Or so they claim
It's a madhouse
Oh, am I insane?
My fears behind me, what can I do
My dreams haunt my sleep at night
Oh no, won't learn their lesson, white fills my eyes
And only then they see the light
He's probably asking if it will work. My bet is it probably will.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm not active on these forums, so forgive me if I don't respond!
If you want to contact me, try going through Discord or you can find me on GitHub where I am still updating the below mods (and more):
He's probably asking if it will work. My bet is it probably will.
Probably not. I'm guessing LiteLoader will complain about some the transformations that M3L needs to make to support Tall Worlds Mod. LiteLoader compatibility isn't really a goal at this point.
Will your own loader, M3L, be able to run in unison with Liteloader
Probably not. LiteLoader compatibility is definitely not a goal for the initial release, but I won't rule it out as a compatibility target for later. LiteLoader is pretty non-intrusive, so it might actually work if I put it on the tweaker chain alongside M3L, but letting other systems transform base classes goes against the main point of M3L, which wants to be the only system transforming base classes. It's the best way to have any hope of guaranteeing that mods are actually compatible with each other.
This sounds a bit too much like wishing. As far as modmakers like stable and easy to use APIs. I can't really see Azanor, Mithion or boni [mDiyo] rewriting their mods too work on a simpler API without years' worth of hooks.
In their FAQ they stated that:
"The purpose of Sponge is to make an API that doesn’t change much between MC versions. It will be possible to write mods that use both Forge and Sponge."
I may be interpreting it the wrong way, but it sounds like they are not trying to copy or replace forge.
And there is also this:
"Sponge will support official interoperability with Forge so you can use both Sponge mods and Forge mods together. We are working directly with the Forge team."
As long as it is true any sponge mod should work with forge installed alongside.
Sponge isn't replacing Forge. It's adding an abstraction layer around Forge. ie it's adding on to Forge.
Since SpongeAPI is wrapping around Forge, you could write a mod that "is" a Sponge mod, but can still do all the things a Forge mod can do. I've been staring at the SpongeAPI for a couple days now and it looks like porting a mod from raw Forge to Sponge would be really really easy. And it looks like a mod wouldn't lose any functionality by doing it either. From what I've seen so far, SpongeAPI doesn't look like it's much simpler.
That means all M3L has to do is implement SpongeAPI and Sponge mods that do Forge things will work just fine.
And if modders aren't convinced that porting to SpongeAPI is the way to go, the fact that SpongeAPI and Forge are so similar means that a M3L that already implements the SpongeAPI could very easily implement the raw Forge API as well.
The only thing M3L is not going to support is core mods. Because core mods are evil and banning them is the whole point of M3L.
I may be interpreting it wrong, but these statements are contradictory if M3L is not forge compatible.
I've been following their project for some time and it seems that as you said SpongeAPI will be build on top of Forge,
and all mods using this API will be able to use Forge.
This part sounds pretty obvious.
It's a bit like Universal Electricity or Forge Multipart, just does different set of things.
There will be no "porting" to SpongeAPI, but it's functions will become available for Forge mods.
The difference is that there will be also a Forge independent version of this platform.
For me it sounds like there will be a "new" server [sponge] for plugins only,
and a form of compatibility layer to enable use of plugins with forge.
In none of these statements or official statements on their FAQ can you find any information about forge becoming obsolete.
[edit] Actually LiteLoader is an excellent example.
It can be used both with and without Forge, and Forge mods should be able to use its functions.
[in this case they don't because LL doesn't offer too many of them]
[edit2] I attatched image from their FAQ for reference.
Those two statements are not actually contradicting when you consider that M3L has the capability to actually replace Forge. Sponge is not trying to replace Forge, but M3L could some day. Since you so kindly linked the fun sponge overview figure, I can point out that M3L fills the "Sponge injection into Minecraft" area.
It would be possible to have a full stack that included only Minecraft, M3L, and Sponge, and yet be able to run all the mods that want to do Sponge things and do Forge things. None of this requires actually running Forge alongside M3L.
So, how's the mod actually going? Can't wait to build the kingdom tower 1:1 scale!
That's a sweet-looking tower!
Development is going really well. The mod itself is mostly finished, but there just isn't a mod loader that can run it yet. =)
I've been adding more and more functionality to my mod loader so it can load mods that actually do something. It won't be long now before the mod loader is good enough to load something like Tall Worlds Mod.
That's some big target. Forge has been developed for years.
If counting FML as a part of it we are talking about ~4000 commits done by >100 contributors.
Are you saying that you and your team are trying to write from scratch an environment compatible with it?
What kind of "Forge things" are you referring to?
The goal is to implement the SpongeAPI. Hopefully I don't have to do it all by myself, but I'll get things started. =) I'll start by implementing just enough of the API to get a small M3L test mod working. Then I'll implement a little more so I can get Tall Worlds Mod working.
After people see what M3L is really capable of, I'm hoping that others will get excited and start to contribute to the implementation as well.
Huh, I feel relieved, it sounded like you were one of these freaks who want to "make new forge" "because of yes".
Still in future development Forge support will be nice.
I still can't see people porting their mods. This part is dreams n' wishes.
I've seen modders abandon their work because of big changes in the way MINECRAFT works.
Even bigger changes in Forge are an impediment, however being able to use your M3L with forge sounds very attractive.
Thats the rub... I'm starting to get the feeling that porting mods from Forge to Sponge will involve mostly cosmetic changes. From what I've seen so far, SpongeAPI is only just a very very thin wrapper around the Forge/FML API. For some mods, I suspect "porting" may only require changing a few package names in the imports section of class files.
Of course, modders will be reluctant to port anything "because of no"
We'll have to wait and see what happens. There's a lot of momentum behind this Sponge movement. It looks like it could work. =)
It'll work for sure, but the team themselves said that they don't plan replacing forge but working with it.
From this I take that set of functions they will offer will be different. So things like packets, rendering, crafting/event handlers may be still handled by forge.
And well... there is the fact that they are not even sure if they want to support vanilla servers yet.
Only confirmed platforms are Forge and Glowstone.
I take that to mean they're going to use Forge/FML to implement their API, but mods will never actually touch Forge classes. This is the magic of abstraction.
You're right, Sponge isn't trying to replace Forge. M3L is trying to replace Forge. And Sponge just might let me do it peacefully. =)
Eventually, they will. Don't worry. =)
White coats to bind me, out of control
I live alone inside my mind
World of confusion, air filled with noise
Who says that my life's such a crime?
Trapped in this nightmare
I wish I'd wake
As my whole life begins to shake
four walls surround me
an empty gaze
I can't find my way out of this maze
'Cause I don't care
Fall in, fall out
Gone without a doubt, help me
I can't take the blame
They don't feel the shame
It's a madhouse
Or so they claim
It's a madhouse
Oh, am I insane?
My fears behind me, what can I do
My dreams haunt my sleep at night
Oh no, won't learn their lesson, white fills my eyes
And only then they see the light
-Joey Belladonna, Anthrax
"The world isn't as bad as you think." - The Dollars
"Love and Peace" - Vash the Stampede
Ok, Good to know then.
Planetminecraft Site Moderator.
https://www.planetminecraft.com/member/ryer/
What about it?
He's probably asking if it will work. My bet is it probably will.
If you want to contact me, try going through Discord or you can find me on GitHub where I am still updating the below mods (and more):
PRESENCE FOOTSTEPS - (github)
VOID FOG - (github)
Probably not. I'm guessing LiteLoader will complain about some the transformations that M3L needs to make to support Tall Worlds Mod. LiteLoader compatibility isn't really a goal at this point.
Will your own loader, M3L, be able to run in unison with Liteloader
Planetminecraft Site Moderator.
https://www.planetminecraft.com/member/ryer/
Probably not. LiteLoader compatibility is definitely not a goal for the initial release, but I won't rule it out as a compatibility target for later. LiteLoader is pretty non-intrusive, so it might actually work if I put it on the tweaker chain alongside M3L, but letting other systems transform base classes goes against the main point of M3L, which wants to be the only system transforming base classes. It's the best way to have any hope of guaranteeing that mods are actually compatible with each other.
Sponge isn't replacing Forge. It's adding an abstraction layer around Forge. ie it's adding on to Forge.
Since SpongeAPI is wrapping around Forge, you could write a mod that "is" a Sponge mod, but can still do all the things a Forge mod can do. I've been staring at the SpongeAPI for a couple days now and it looks like porting a mod from raw Forge to Sponge would be really really easy. And it looks like a mod wouldn't lose any functionality by doing it either. From what I've seen so far, SpongeAPI doesn't look like it's much simpler.
That means all M3L has to do is implement SpongeAPI and Sponge mods that do Forge things will work just fine.
And if modders aren't convinced that porting to SpongeAPI is the way to go, the fact that SpongeAPI and Forge are so similar means that a M3L that already implements the SpongeAPI could very easily implement the raw Forge API as well.
The only thing M3L is not going to support is core mods. Because core mods are evil and banning them is the whole point of M3L.
Those two statements are not actually contradicting when you consider that M3L has the capability to actually replace Forge. Sponge is not trying to replace Forge, but M3L could some day. Since you so kindly linked the fun sponge overview figure, I can point out that M3L fills the "Sponge injection into Minecraft" area.
It would be possible to have a full stack that included only Minecraft, M3L, and Sponge, and yet be able to run all the mods that want to do Sponge things and do Forge things. None of this requires actually running Forge alongside M3L.
Planetminecraft Site Moderator.
https://www.planetminecraft.com/member/ryer/
That's a sweet-looking tower!
Development is going really well. The mod itself is mostly finished, but there just isn't a mod loader that can run it yet. =)
I've been adding more and more functionality to my mod loader so it can load mods that actually do something. It won't be long now before the mod loader is good enough to load something like Tall Worlds Mod.
I'm referring to these kinds of Forge things:
https://github.com/SpongePowered/SpongeAPI/tree/master/src/main/java/org/spongepowered/api
The goal is to implement the SpongeAPI. Hopefully I don't have to do it all by myself, but I'll get things started. =) I'll start by implementing just enough of the API to get a small M3L test mod working. Then I'll implement a little more so I can get Tall Worlds Mod working.
After people see what M3L is really capable of, I'm hoping that others will get excited and start to contribute to the implementation as well.
Thats the rub... I'm starting to get the feeling that porting mods from Forge to Sponge will involve mostly cosmetic changes. From what I've seen so far, SpongeAPI is only just a very very thin wrapper around the Forge/FML API. For some mods, I suspect "porting" may only require changing a few package names in the imports section of class files.
Of course, modders will be reluctant to port anything "because of no"
We'll have to wait and see what happens. There's a lot of momentum behind this Sponge movement. It looks like it could work. =)
I take that to mean they're going to use Forge/FML to implement their API, but mods will never actually touch Forge classes. This is the magic of abstraction.
You're right, Sponge isn't trying to replace Forge. M3L is trying to replace Forge. And Sponge just might let me do it peacefully. =)
BTW, there will be server support for TWM, correct?
Yes, absolutely. =)