Actually, according to the Minecraft Wiki, even falling 256 blocks you only reach 70 m/s, and the terminal velocity is ~78.4 m/s.
Still, taller worlds negates that fact, but 200 blocks will not get you to terminal velocity. Just wanted to mention that.
Oh, learn something every day
Even at 70 blocks per second though, most players are still going to have problems. In fact, even at 39.2 blocks per second, it probably still would not be hard to fall out of the world
I wonder if it's possible to precompute some kind of connection graph between chunks where you know, approximately (does not need to be 100% accurate) whether nearby chunks are connected to eachother. In that case you could load lower chunks preemptively.
Not with the way minecraft works... it already loads air chunks as fast as it can... but it wouldn't be enough.
I understand that falling speed is very important to people. I can't really make any statements about that just yet. I'm in the process of getting some tall terrains and trying to see what happens when I fall really quickly. When I know more about the current behavior of the system, I'll let you guys know what my plans are for dealing with this.
I wonder if it's possible to precompute some kind of connection graph between chunks where you know, approximately (does not need to be 100% accurate) whether nearby chunks are connected to eachother. In that case you could load lower chunks preemptively.
Yes, it's definitely possible. This is essentially a kind of visibility system. I may try to do something like this eventually, but much much later. It's only an optimization (and a difficult one), so it shouldn't be necessary to get a basic system running.
Oh, I have a question - have you considered creating some sort of a "space" in your mod? At certain height blue sky would change into dark "vacuum" (with maybe moon and other planets to land). I think it'd be extremely cool and since you seem to be a magician when it comes to modding...
I don't intend to make any changes to sky rendering, other than to try to calibrate for the new height limits.
Here's the latest update on the mod. I've broken the height limit and tried out some cube loading tests. This test shows how fast the chunk loader works (without any optimizations yet) when a player is in free fall.
Here's the latest update on the mod. I've broken the height limit and tried out some cube loading tests. This test shows how fast the chunk loader works (without any optimizations yet) when a player is in free fall.
-techdemosnip-
Wow, very nice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
if the colors in my posts don't make sense don't worry about it
Link Removed
also you should check out Link Removed
Here's the latest update on the mod. I've broken the height limit and tried out some cube loading tests. This test shows how fast the chunk loader works (without any optimizations yet) when a player is in free fall.
Before I come to any hasty conclusions though; what are your computer specs?
It's kind of like when people say that they can read a book in 2 hours. However, there are lots of different kinds of books; some long, some short, some easy, some hard, and while one type of book might take you 2 hours, another could easily take you 2 months.
Wow that's fast... Before I come to any hasty conclusions though; what are your computer specs? It's kind of like when people say that they can read a book in 2 hours. However, there are lots of different kinds of books; some long, some short, some easy, some hard, and while one type of book might take you 2 hours, another could easily take you 2 months.
That's a legitimate question. My CPU is an AMD A8-6600K APU. The game is reading/writing files from/to a Razer 60GB SSD. Those are probably the only specs that matter for this test.
I should probably test on an old-style 5400 RPM HD some time. Or maybe get one of you to do it for me. =)
That's a legitimate question. My CPU is an AMD A8-6600K APU. The game is reading/writing files from/to a Razer 60GB SSD. Those are probably the only specs that matter for this test.
I should probably test on an old-style 5400 RPM HD some time. Or maybe get one of you to do it for me. =)
I have a 5400 =)
Even taking your SSD speed into account, the loading there is pretty darn fast.
An HDD would probably be fine most of the time, especially after optimization, but all you need is some other program trying to read or write to the disk, then the latency will skyrocket and the player will fall straight out of the world while the Java VM just sits there; patiently waiting for the HDD to actually start looking for the next chunk
Great work Cuchaz! I'm excited to see what you and Barteks2k accomplish with this new generation of cubic chunks type height mod.
It sounds like you have the interest, time and ability to really pull this off. Speaking as a member of the original Cubic Chunks Mod Team (beta 1.7.3 - r1.0 ) that originally brought this method to the minecraft communities attention and proved (to Jeb and all) with fully functional releases that it does in fact work and very well; I'm especially encouraged by your full awareness of how huge an endeavor this really is, people usually vastly underestimate all that is involved under the hood to make this happen. And I'm very encouraged by you saying that you enjoy the challenge.
If there is ever anything we can help with just let me know. I will be letting Robinton, the creator of the 'Cubic Chunks Mod', and other members of the team know about your project so that we can all enjoy watching your progress. We all very much want to see a cubic chunks type of height mod available for minecraft again and especially for these newer SMP versions of minecraft.
The original Cubic Chunks Mod is what inspired and informed Jeb to change the chunk system around for minecraft with the Anvil changes and double the original vanilla game height, both I and Robinton have corresponded with Jeb; so perhaps your new implementation for the modern versions of minecraft will inspire mojang to finally push even further up! Heck, if we could even get them to push up to 500 or 1000 blocks tall for vanilla it would enable 1:1 recreations of most any building and man-made structure. It would make a huge difference, especially if in so doing they implemented 3D Biomes, or Domains as I call them (that would be a true sea-change for minecraft).
I also have to say that I'm happy to see you implementing a new database driven chunk storage system! That is exactly what Nocte, a core member and coder of the original team, did for his open source C++ Voxel game Framework HexaHedra (Git) (Forum) and it works so much better. You are on the right track.
* I have one important piece of advice, not based on any reflection of you but hard learned from the original project; Please please make full and labeled source code back-ups at every major code and version change, including the entire build folder for major versions at the least. And if possible find a way at some point to document exactly which base classes of minecraft have been changed in any way and record at least a basic summary of what the purpose of the changes to each class was, not just the code itself.
- Where things can really get out of control is when mojang starts updating minecraft in large ways and at a rapid pace. When the version stays the same for a long time it is easy to keep developing the mods features and have fun doing so, but when you suddenly have to trall through all of it from the ground up in order to update it for a new changed version of minecraft you will be very glad for any documentation you have left for yourself. Things can get really messy really fast with a project as massive and complicated as this one is with all of it's deep base class changes. But I'm sure you already know all of that.
Do you expect to release this if and when you finish? I desperatly need something like this for my new World Trade Center 1:1 replica model.
In the mean-time you might enjoy inspiration from the 1:1 World Trade Center replica made by kantk2010 with the original Cubic Chunks Mod a long while back.
Cuchaz: I want to make sure you know about Robintons, now open source, "Save Converter" tool.
It's a standalone tool that was made a while ago but which has valuable info and code in it for bridging the gap between various world save formats, including the various versions of the original Cubic Chunks mod and even the very first height mod of them all, ymod. It allows full conversion of any world to and from whatever type you desire. Of course, converting a Cubic Chunks world back to vanilla 128 or 256 will destroy anything outside of vanilla's range, people should never convert a world unless it is backed up first. It works really well even if it's interface is a bit basic.
It is my great hope that you or a friend of the project will create a new version of this tool that includes what is needed to convert back and forth from/to your new format as well. The community can really use a universal save format converter like this that allows them to feel confident enough of any new save format to spend time working on large projects with it. That also serves you with your project here as you might adjust your format at some point too and a tool like this could make it easy for people to update their worlds and not have to start over.
- So please feel free to take what you need from the Save Converter tool or add to it in order to include your new format in it's range of conversion. It would be cool to add mention of Robinton in the modified tools credits of course. It would also be great if it could remain open source. Thank you.
I have a 5400 =) Even taking your SSD speed into account, the loading there is pretty darn fast. An HDD would probably be fine most of the time, especially after optimization, but all you need is some other program trying to read or write to the disk, then the latency will skyrocket and the player will fall straight out of the world while the Java VM just sits there; patiently waiting for the HDD to actually start looking for the next chunk
I'm not super worried about falling-through-world problems. Sure it may seem like that's happening on the client, but it shouldn't be able to happen on the server, regardless of cube loading speeds. The server thread will block on cube loads, so players shouldn't be able to move through unloaded cubes. And if the client ever gets out of sync, the server will just update the client shortly afterwards. Falling through world problems should be an entirely cosmetic problem.
It sounds like you have the interest, time and ability to really pull this off. Speaking as a member of the original Cubic Chunks Mod Team (beta 1.7.3 - r1.0 ) that originally brought this method to the minecraft communities attention and proved (to Jeb and all) with fully functional releases that it does in fact work and very well; I'm especially encouraged by your full awareness of how huge an endeavor this really is, people usually vastly underestimate all that is involved under the hood to make this happen. And I'm very encouraged by you saying that you enjoy the challenge. If there is ever anything we can help with just let me know. I will be letting Robinton, the creator of the 'Cubic Chunks Mod', and other members of the team know about your project so that we can all enjoy watching your progress.
Cool! I was wondering whatever happened to the original cubic chunks creators. It's good to see you're still lurking around.
We all very much want to see a cubic chunks type of height mod available for minecraft again and especially for these newer SMP versions of minecraft. The original Cubic Chunks Mod is what inspired and informed Jeb to change the chunk system around for minecraft with the Anvil changes and double the original vanilla game height, both I and Robinton have corresponded with Jeb; so perhaps your new implementation for the modern versions of minecraft will inspire mojang to finally push even further up! Heck, if we could even get them to push up to 500 or 1000 blocks tall for vanilla it would enable 1:1 recreations of most any building and man-made structure.
Honestly, I don't really care if Mojang implements cubic chunks or not. I just want to get this mod working so I can use it myself. I have plans that need tall worlds. =)
It would make a huge difference, especially if in so doing they implemented 3D Biomes, or Domains as I call them (that would be a true sea-change for minecraft).
We might try to do 3d biomes in the future. Not at first though. I'm trying to do this by making the smallest amount of changes to vanilla Minecraft at first.
I also have to say that I'm happy to see you implementing a new database driven chunk storage system! That is exactly what Nocte, a core member and coder of the original team, did for his open source C++ Voxel game Framework HexaHedra (Git) (Forum) and it works so much better. You are on the right track.
Using a real DBMS seemed like the way to go. I'm lazy and didn't want to have to write my own efficient but ACID persistence system. It's sooo much easier to use code that's already out there and tested.
* I have one important piece of advice, not based on any reflection of you but hard learned from the original project; Please please make full and labeled source code back-ups at every major code and version change, including the entire build folder for major versions at the least. And if possible find a way at some point to document exactly which base classes of minecraft have been changed in any way and record at least a basic summary of what the purpose of the changes to each class was, not just the code itself. - Where things can really get out of control is when mojang starts updating minecraft in large ways and at a rapid pace. When the version stays the same for a long time it is easy to keep developing the mods features and have fun doing so, but when you suddenly have to trall through all of it from the ground up in order to update it for a new changed version of minecraft you will be very glad for any documentation you have left for yourself. Things can get really messy really fast with a project as massive and complicated as this one is with all of it's deep base class changes. But I'm sure you already know all of that. The best of luck to you! Here's hoping.
This is where having my own mod loader comes in handy. My mod loader lets me have hooks that are as minimally invasive as possible. The mod should be incredibly resistant to changes in future versions of the code. Of course, large huge changes could dislodge some of the hooks, so we'll have to deal with that when it happens. I have it on good authority that the Anvil save format won't change for a while, so we should be safe enough for now.
Cuchaz: I want to make sure you know about Robintons, now open source, "Save Converter" tool. It's a standalone tool that was made a while ago but which has valuable info and code in it for bridging the gap between various world save formats, including the various versions of the original Cubic Chunks mod and even the very first height mod of them all, ymod. It allows full conversion of any world to and from whatever type you desire. Of course, converting a Cubic Chunks world back to vanilla 128 or 256 will destroy anything outside of vanilla's range, people should never convert a world unless it is backed up first. It works really well even if it's interface is a bit basic. It is my great hope that you or a friend of the project will create a new version of this tool that includes what is needed to convert back and forth from/to your new format as well. The community can really use a universal save format converter like this that allows them to feel confident enough of any new save format to spend time working on large projects with it. That also serves you with your project here as you might adjust your format at some point too and a tool like this could make it easy for people to update their worlds and not have to start over. - So please feel free to take what you need from the Save Converter tool or add to it in order to include your new format in it's range of conversion. It would be cool to add mention of Robinton in the modified tools credits of course. It would also be great if it could remain open source. Thank you. Save Converter (Info + DL's) (Orig) Save Converter 2.0.1 - Download [Robinton's original adfly link (click to support him)] Save Converter (2.0.1 Source Code) - Download [Robinton's original adfly link (click to support him)]
My mod is allopensource. Anyone would be welcome to make a conversion tool if they really wanted one.
Looking at the (2ed) demo vid, Why don't you realse it now as a beta? If its because the hight limit is not 16777k high, Like I said, beta. More like a snapshot(Snapshots are ment to help test) If its because of lag, Ok. That, I can understand.
Right now, the height limit is about 16 million blocks. I'm not really seeing many signs of crippling lag yet. There are a few obstacles that are preventing me from putting out a beta just yet though:
Biomes don't work anymore (You'll notice the terrain in the 2nd video is all stone)
I need to actually modify world generation to generate some tall terrains
There are some crippling bugs with entity saving/loading (working on fixing this now)
The mod loader used to run Tall Worlds currently has zero compatibility with other modded environments like Forge. Compatibility is planned, but it hasn't happened yet.
I could not have even hoped for better news!! You truly are a Scholar and a Gentleman.
This means that you are breathing life back into this Cubic Chunk vision and in a way that provides hope for a long-term and sustainable solution. My hat is completely off to you Sir!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
I could not have even hoped for better news!! You truly are a Scholar and a Gentleman. This means that you are breathing life back into this Cubic Chunk vision and in a way that provides hope for a long-term and sustainable solution. My hat is completely off to you Sir!
I hope that, with such huge space available, your mod will be able to generate maps with terrain level about for example 1 000 000 blocks above "y=0" (sorry, my English is not as good as it should be and I sometimes have no idea how to express what I want to say ). I just think it'd be great to have plenty of blocks below to dig.
Oh definitely. I'm planning to start with the surface height around 8 million blocks. That should give plenty of space both up and down.
In the long term, I think it would be super duper awesome to have Terraria-style underground biomes. Tall worlds in one step in that direction.
I hope that, with such huge space available, your mod will be able to generate maps with terrain level about for example 1 000 000 blocks above "y=0" (sorry, my English is not as good as it should be and I sometimes have no idea how to express what I want to say ). I just think it'd be great to have plenty of blocks below to dig.
Oh definitely. I'm planning to start with the surface height around 8 million blocks. That should give plenty of space both up and down.
Are you planning to change how ores generate to accommodate the deeper ground? I know nobody can be expected to dig millions of blocks down to find diamonds (XD), but I'm just wondering that if you're going to change it at all.
Are you planning to change how ores generate to accommodate the deeper ground? I know nobody can be expected to dig millions of blocks down to find diamonds (XD), but I'm just wondering that if you're going to change it at all.
Oh, learn something every day
Even at 70 blocks per second though, most players are still going to have problems. In fact, even at 39.2 blocks per second, it probably still would not be hard to fall out of the world
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
also you should check out Link Removed
Not with the way minecraft works... it already loads air chunks as fast as it can... but it wouldn't be enough.
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Curse PremiumYes, it's definitely possible. This is essentially a kind of visibility system. I may try to do something like this eventually, but much much later. It's only an optimization (and a difficult one), so it shouldn't be necessary to get a basic system running.
I don't intend to make any changes to sky rendering, other than to try to calibrate for the new height limits.
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Curse PremiumI've updated the OP too.
also you should check out Link Removed
woh...
Before I come to any hasty conclusions though; what are your computer specs?
It's kind of like when people say that they can read a book in 2 hours. However, there are lots of different kinds of books; some long, some short, some easy, some hard, and while one type of book might take you 2 hours, another could easily take you 2 months.
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
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Curse PremiumThat's a legitimate question. My CPU is an AMD A8-6600K APU. The game is reading/writing files from/to a Razer 60GB SSD. Those are probably the only specs that matter for this test.
I should probably test on an old-style 5400 RPM HD some time. Or maybe get one of you to do it for me. =)
I have a 5400 =)
Even taking your SSD speed into account, the loading there is pretty darn fast.
An HDD would probably be fine most of the time, especially after optimization, but all you need is some other program trying to read or write to the disk, then the latency will skyrocket and the player will fall straight out of the world while the Java VM just sits there; patiently waiting for the HDD to actually start looking for the next chunk
I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, bless her Invisible Pinkness.
You're fast becoming my hero sir!
Please please please don't disapear on on!
XD
It sounds like you have the interest, time and ability to really pull this off. Speaking as a member of the original Cubic Chunks Mod Team (beta 1.7.3 - r1.0 ) that originally brought this method to the minecraft communities attention and proved (to Jeb and all) with fully functional releases that it does in fact work and very well; I'm especially encouraged by your full awareness of how huge an endeavor this really is, people usually vastly underestimate all that is involved under the hood to make this happen. And I'm very encouraged by you saying that you enjoy the challenge.
If there is ever anything we can help with just let me know. I will be letting Robinton, the creator of the 'Cubic Chunks Mod', and other members of the team know about your project so that we can all enjoy watching your progress. We all very much want to see a cubic chunks type of height mod available for minecraft again and especially for these newer SMP versions of minecraft.
The original Cubic Chunks Mod is what inspired and informed Jeb to change the chunk system around for minecraft with the Anvil changes and double the original vanilla game height, both I and Robinton have corresponded with Jeb; so perhaps your new implementation for the modern versions of minecraft will inspire mojang to finally push even further up! Heck, if we could even get them to push up to 500 or 1000 blocks tall for vanilla it would enable 1:1 recreations of most any building and man-made structure. It would make a huge difference, especially if in so doing they implemented 3D Biomes, or Domains as I call them (that would be a true sea-change for minecraft).
I also have to say that I'm happy to see you implementing a new database driven chunk storage system! That is exactly what Nocte, a core member and coder of the original team, did for his open source C++ Voxel game Framework HexaHedra (Git) (Forum) and it works so much better. You are on the right track.
* I have one important piece of advice, not based on any reflection of you but hard learned from the original project; Please please make full and labeled source code back-ups at every major code and version change, including the entire build folder for major versions at the least. And if possible find a way at some point to document exactly which base classes of minecraft have been changed in any way and record at least a basic summary of what the purpose of the changes to each class was, not just the code itself.
- Where things can really get out of control is when mojang starts updating minecraft in large ways and at a rapid pace. When the version stays the same for a long time it is easy to keep developing the mods features and have fun doing so, but when you suddenly have to trall through all of it from the ground up in order to update it for a new changed version of minecraft you will be very glad for any documentation you have left for yourself. Things can get really messy really fast with a project as massive and complicated as this one is with all of it's deep base class changes. But I'm sure you already know all of that.
The best of luck to you! Here's hoping.
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
In the mean-time you might enjoy inspiration from the 1:1 World Trade Center replica made by kantk2010 with the original Cubic Chunks Mod a long while back.
kantk2010's 1:1 Recreation of the original World Trade Center (requires Cubic Chunks Mod)
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
It's a standalone tool that was made a while ago but which has valuable info and code in it for bridging the gap between various world save formats, including the various versions of the original Cubic Chunks mod and even the very first height mod of them all, ymod. It allows full conversion of any world to and from whatever type you desire. Of course, converting a Cubic Chunks world back to vanilla 128 or 256 will destroy anything outside of vanilla's range, people should never convert a world unless it is backed up first. It works really well even if it's interface is a bit basic.
It is my great hope that you or a friend of the project will create a new version of this tool that includes what is needed to convert back and forth from/to your new format as well. The community can really use a universal save format converter like this that allows them to feel confident enough of any new save format to spend time working on large projects with it. That also serves you with your project here as you might adjust your format at some point too and a tool like this could make it easy for people to update their worlds and not have to start over.
- So please feel free to take what you need from the Save Converter tool or add to it in order to include your new format in it's range of conversion. It would be cool to add mention of Robinton in the modified tools credits of course. It would also be great if it could remain open source. Thank you.
Save Converter (Info + DL's) (Orig)
Save Converter 2.0.1 - Download [Robinton's original adfly link (click to support him)]
Save Converter (2.0.1 Source Code) - Download [Robinton's original adfly link (click to support him)]
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
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Curse PremiumI'm not super worried about falling-through-world problems. Sure it may seem like that's happening on the client, but it shouldn't be able to happen on the server, regardless of cube loading speeds. The server thread will block on cube loads, so players shouldn't be able to move through unloaded cubes. And if the client ever gets out of sync, the server will just update the client shortly afterwards. Falling through world problems should be an entirely cosmetic problem.
Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere. =)
Thanks! Barteks2k is working on his own mod still I think, but Razaekel is helping me out a little bit with Tall Worlds.
Cool! I was wondering whatever happened to the original cubic chunks creators. It's good to see you're still lurking around.
Honestly, I don't really care if Mojang implements cubic chunks or not. I just want to get this mod working so I can use it myself. I have plans that need tall worlds. =)
We might try to do 3d biomes in the future. Not at first though. I'm trying to do this by making the smallest amount of changes to vanilla Minecraft at first.
Using a real DBMS seemed like the way to go. I'm lazy and didn't want to have to write my own efficient but ACID persistence system. It's sooo much easier to use code that's already out there and tested.
This is where having my own mod loader comes in handy. My mod loader lets me have hooks that are as minimally invasive as possible. The mod should be incredibly resistant to changes in future versions of the code. Of course, large huge changes could dislodge some of the hooks, so we'll have to deal with that when it happens. I have it on good authority that the Anvil save format won't change for a while, so we should be safe enough for now.
My mod is all open source. Anyone would be welcome to make a conversion tool if they really wanted one.
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Curse PremiumRight now, the height limit is about 16 million blocks. I'm not really seeing many signs of crippling lag yet. There are a few obstacles that are preventing me from putting out a beta just yet though:
I could not have even hoped for better news!!
This means that you are breathing life back into this Cubic Chunk vision and in a way that provides hope for a long-term and sustainable solution. My hat is completely off to you Sir!
- The Cubic Chunks Mod is back! Be a part of it's rebirth and Development.
-- Robinton's Mods: [ Mirror ] for some of his Mods incl Cubic Chunks Mod, due to DropBox broken links.
- Dungeon Generator for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
- QuickSAVE-QuickLOAD for the Open Cubic Chunks Mod
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Curse Premium=D
Oh definitely. I'm planning to start with the surface height around 8 million blocks. That should give plenty of space both up and down.
In the long term, I think it would be super duper awesome to have Terraria-style underground biomes. Tall worlds in one step in that direction.
Are you planning to change how ores generate to accommodate the deeper ground? I know nobody can be expected to dig millions of blocks down to find diamonds (XD), but I'm just wondering that if you're going to change it at all.
also you should check out Link Removed
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Curse PremiumYeah, that'll have to happen.